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Field of Dreams LC
12-06-2010, 10:59 AM
I am still searching to add a organic lawn program for my customers. I live on the coast by houston, Tx and we have nothing but St. Augustine grasses where I live. Is there a general program with tested products that anyone could point me to so that I may research and see if that would be something I can offer next season.

Landscape Poet
12-06-2010, 09:44 PM
I am still searching to add a organic lawn program for my customers. I live on the coast by houston, Tx and we have nothing but St. Augustine grasses where I live. Is there a general program with tested products that anyone could point me to so that I may research and see if that would be something I can offer next season.

Top Dress with quality compost.
Add Corn Meal for fungus issues and green up
Add CGM for Green UP
Add Alpha Pellets for Green Up

That should work, but my big concern for you would cinch bug and combating them, at least until you get the turf to take care of itself because as you know they can take the lawn out pretty quickly.

I have looked and looked and asked and asked and other than healthy soil, find no evidence of proven results of stopping cinch bugs in SA without the use of pesticides. Other than claims by manufactures who sell product that is.

Tim Vipond
12-06-2010, 10:03 PM
I am still searching to add a organic lawn program for my customers. I live on the coast by houston, Tx and we have nothing but St. Augustine grasses where I live. Is there a general program with tested products that anyone could point me to so that I may research and see if that would be something I can offer next season.
This is what my Houston lawn care customers are offering:

http://www.aggrand.com/articles/g1170.pdf .

Quick and easy to apply, about $7 per yard per application. I also offer them free advertising and referrals.

RAlmaroad
12-07-2010, 06:38 AM
I am still searching to add a organic lawn program for my customers. I live on the coast by houston, Tx and we have nothing but St. Augustine grasses where I live. Is there a general program with tested products that anyone could point me to so that I may research and see if that would be something I can offer next season.

St. Augustine requires 1lb of Nitrogen/1000 every 4-6 weeks during the active growing season. In respect of your plan to use all natural, there is nothing that would allow that much Nitrogen. Milorganite has 6% but lacks another very important nutrient (Potassium) St. Augustine and all turf need this to produce roots and stave off winter die back, fungi and other problems. Here again nothing seems available to feed it with the 1lb/K/ month seems to be available--I may be wrong there; check for yourself. Then there is the summer problems of fungus and pest as already mentioned. Milorganite would require 17lb of product/K; some folks swear by it. There has been some critical press on Milorganite as to smell, but I never noticed it on a lawn that had it put down. Do some googleing, ask you local extension agent. On another note: I would not accept a client that wanted/insisted to micro-manage by wanting a full organic program (there's no suck thing) or questioning an established business. They are too much trouble down the line such as complaining about "How their lawn does not look as good as a neighbors", "When will it need another application", an on and on--just too much me, me, me attitude later on in the season. Couple that with several other and you'd be a good candidate for a suicide watch. As far as a good program, begin with a soil test and go from there. Good luck in your endeavors

Kiril
12-08-2010, 11:52 PM
St. Augustine requires 1lb of Nitrogen/1000 every 4-6 weeks during the active growing season. In respect of your plan to use all natural, there is nothing that would allow that much Nitrogen. Milorganite has 6% but lacks another very important nutrient (Potassium) St. Augustine and all turf need this to produce roots and stave off winter die back, fungi and other problems. Here again nothing seems available to feed it with the 1lb/K/ month seems to be available--I may be wrong there; check for yourself. Then there is the summer problems of fungus and pest as already mentioned. Milorganite would require 17lb of product/K; some folks swear by it. There has been some critical press on Milorganite as to smell, but I never noticed it on a lawn that had it put down. Do some googleing, ask you local extension agent. On another note: I would not accept a client that wanted/insisted to micro-manage by wanting a full organic program (there's no suck thing) or questioning an established business. They are too much trouble down the line such as complaining about "How their lawn does not look as good as a neighbors", "When will it need another application", an on and on--just too much me, me, me attitude later on in the season. Couple that with several other and you'd be a good candidate for a suicide watch. As far as a good program, begin with a soil test and go from there. Good luck in your endeavors

Come on RA, you should know by now organic programs do not work like synthetic ones, nor does one have to follow extension recommendations for fertilizer to the T. If people fertilized based on observed need and/or soil testing, then you wouldn't need to follow generic recommendations .... would you?

jonthepain
12-09-2010, 07:04 PM
I also offer them free advertising and referrals.

how does that work?

Tim Vipond
12-09-2010, 07:22 PM
how does that work?I list them on my website.

For example, someone Googling AGGRAND houston would find my information several times on the first search results page out of 15,000 search results. When they click on my website, my Aggrand retailers and applicators are listed. If they want it applied, I would contact one of my applicators.

Googling liquid organic fertilizers houston would find my info several times on the first search page out of 30,000 search results.

Googling those terms and any city I list on my website would likely find my and my listed retailers on the first search results page.

All I ask is that you purchase a small amount of Aggrand and I will list you on my website which will be found by Googlers. The more I can send you customers, the more money we can both make.

ICT Bill
12-09-2010, 10:14 PM
I list them on my website.

For example, someone Googling AGGRAND houston would find my information several times on the first search results page out of 15,000 search results. When they click on my website, my Aggrand retailers and applicators are listed. If they want it applied, I would contact one of my applicators.

Googling liquid organic fertilizers houston would find my info several times on the first search page out of 30,000 search results.

Googling those terms and any city I list on my website would likely find my and my listed retailers on the first search results page.

All I ask is that you purchase a small amount of Aggrand and I will list you on my website which will be found by Googlers. The more I can send you customers, the more money we can both make.

How can you and your customers possible stand the smell, those fish carcases smell worse than most of the things that have been sent to us, and there have been some really smelly things sent this way

ICT Bill
12-09-2010, 10:22 PM
this is from FL on the coast with fine white sand, all St Aug, the year this was taken all 10 months (their season)was our tea

win a free six pack to guess the right answer to how much N was applied for the 2009 season

and go to this thread to see other pictures
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=328680

Tim Vipond
12-09-2010, 10:33 PM
How can you and your customers possible stand the smell, those fish carcases smell worse than most of the things that have been sent to us, and there have been some really smelly things sent this wayThe odor is barely noticeable in the new formulation. Just enough to let the customer know it was applied. Not objectionable at all. Dissipates in a few hours. No complaints in hundreds of yards used.

Tim Vipond
12-09-2010, 10:39 PM
this is from FL on the coast with fine white sand, all St Aug, the year this was taken all 10 months (their season)was our tea

win a free six pack to guess the right answer to how much N was applied for the 2009 season

and go to this thread to see other pictures
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=3286800.1 pounds N per 1000 sq. ft. per year.

jonthepain
12-09-2010, 10:49 PM
that st aug looks great

and i'll guess - none

Tim Vipond
12-09-2010, 11:03 PM
ICTBill says: "How can you and your customers possible stand the smell, those fish carcases smell worse than most of the things that have been sent to us, and there have been some really smelly things sent this way"

I haven't heard of anyone object with the new formulation. If for some reason the emulsified fish extract is objectionable, AGGRAND also makes a Natural Kelp and Sulfate of Potash liquid organic fertilizer. No fish.

jonthepain
12-10-2010, 12:54 PM
When did they start shipping the new formulation?

ICT Bill
12-10-2010, 01:54 PM
0.1 pounds N per 1000 sq. ft. per year.

close but no cigar

and it was the 2010 season not 2009, typo

Tim Vipond
12-10-2010, 02:02 PM
When did they start shipping the new formulation?I got mine in October, 2010.

jonthepain
12-10-2010, 02:10 PM
I'm not seeing that information on their website. I must be missing something.

and Bill, I'm still going with 0.0 pounds N per 1000 sf

Field of Dreams LC
12-10-2010, 03:10 PM
i'm gonna say....1.0 pounds N per 1000 sq. ft. per year.

ICT Bill
12-10-2010, 04:46 PM
i'm gonna say....1.0 pounds N per 1000 sq. ft. per year.

less than that but more than the 0.01

jonthepain
12-10-2010, 04:49 PM
.05 ?

just goes to show you...

treegal1
12-10-2010, 07:27 PM
disgusting on so many levels.........................

starry night
12-10-2010, 08:46 PM
disgusting on so many levels.........................

You just love to leave us speechless and scratching our heads, don't you.

ICT Bill
12-13-2010, 10:08 AM
and the answer is...............drum roll please

1/3 of a pound for the season

you can get some great results in sand, it is espacially true with the way that st aug creeps you can inoculate the roots very easiliy and then when you are also applying bacterial and fungal foods, very little NPK inputs with good to great results

jonthepain
12-13-2010, 04:55 PM
awesome, Bill

green connect
12-23-2010, 09:40 AM
Jon. I checked your website, "nice". One thing you want to change (because people in the Triangle area are picky about everything), the quote "A nation that destroys it's soils destroys itself" is by FDR not Teddy Roosevelt.

jonthepain
12-23-2010, 10:37 AM
FDR certainly said it, but his cousin TR, our first conservationist President, said it first.

"A nation that destroys its soils destroys itself. Forests are the lungs of our land, purifying the air and giving fresh strength to our people."

http://www.edf.org/article.cfm?ContentID=2759

http://www.iwise.com/u8XRN

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Environment

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt

"The movement for the conservation of wild life and the larger movement for the conservation of all our natural resources are essentially democratic in spirit, purpose, and method," TR, 1916.

TR and another hero of mine, John Muir, in Yosemite Valley:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e248/jonthepain/RooseveltMuir.gif

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e248/jonthepain/TRrushmore.jpg

green connect
12-23-2010, 11:23 AM
Thanks for the interesting factoid. Wife will love the new trivia I can spout. Father of our National Parks system, makes sense. Funny they commonly attribute FDR with it.

phasthound
12-23-2010, 11:38 AM
Back in the Day, Republicans were conservationists & busted monopolies. What happened?

green connect
12-23-2010, 02:20 PM
Nothings changed.. just the language things are presented.

jonthepain
12-23-2010, 03:17 PM
Funny that it took an outdoorsman/hunter to save countless acres for conservation via national parks, national forests, national monuments, etc etc.

Nowadays the media would have us believe that hunters and outdoorsmen are the enemy, and environmentalists are the saviors.

Go figure.

green connect
12-23-2010, 04:26 PM
Agreed. And your a conservative pushing Organics (assuming), who would ever have thought.. :usflag:

jonthepain
12-23-2010, 05:33 PM
On target!

But I think that, instead of "pushing organics," I'd say that I saw a market niche and am attempting to fill it.

Besides, I love the out of doors, and growing things, so it fits.

:D

green connect
12-23-2010, 06:28 PM
But I think that, instead of "pushing organics," I'd say that I saw a market niche and am attempting to fill it.


:D

Green all the way!!

Awesome.

phasthound
12-23-2010, 09:36 PM
I welcome both of you to the club of people who believe organics should have nothing to do with politics.

Kiril
12-24-2010, 09:48 AM
I welcome both of you to the club of people who believe organics should have nothing to do with politics.

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

green connect
12-24-2010, 10:31 AM
What a wonderful world that would be. It's all about common sense, nothing else.