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phasthound
12-21-2010, 08:25 AM
Under a new distribution agreement, German-based Neudorff has assigned exclusive distribution rights to Engage Agro USA to market its new bioherbicide, Fiesta Turf Weed Killer, for all U.S. professional turf markets.

http://www.greenindustrypros.com/web/online/Green-Industry-Pros-News/New-Herbicide-Coming-to-US-Markets/26$2689

ICT Bill
12-21-2010, 08:51 AM
I have not been following ....but I thought eco sense by scott's and fiesta were the same thing

HayBay
12-21-2010, 11:23 AM
EcoSense is homeowner version. Less Ai

Barefoot James
12-21-2010, 08:05 PM
Any info on the product specifics - like what weeds does it control, mode of action, cost, etc?

Why is it considered organic? Anybody have any input who has used it? Does it control crab or nutsedge? Clover or violets? Barry are you picking this up?

JDUtah
12-21-2010, 08:51 PM
http://www.growercentral.com/UPLOADS/PDFS/fiesta%20lawn%20weed%20killer%20label%2004%2010.pdf

JDUtah
12-21-2010, 08:53 PM
Also,

"The active ingredient in Fiesta is in the form of iron chelate which is immediately available for uptake by the susceptible plants in doses too high for them to withstand, killing them down to the root. This unique formula has no unpleasant odor, works quickly and in cool weather, is rainfast in 3 hours and is ideal for use as an alternative, earth friendly herbicide."

via http://www.growercentral.com/index.cfm?siteAction=showFamilyDetailsWithSearch&searchStart=1&basicSearchCriteria=park&msds=&labels=&familyID=135200&CFID=4969017&CFTOKEN=76227494

HayBay
12-21-2010, 10:00 PM
This is My Opinion.

Its a really neat product in regards to watching it turn dandelion black within hours. 48 hours and the dandelion is totally black. Very selective product.

It greens a lawn instantly for about 2 weeks after the applicaiton.

I have seen it affect clover, minor dieback and stunting of growth.
I have seen it affect Plantain, Curling of the leaves and stunting.
Thistle will have minimal damage
Knotweed is not affected
Black Medic , not affected minor
GroundIvy/Mallow, no affect
etc...

Regrowth will occur within 2 weeks.
Top Kill Only
They say that if the whole plant is not covered in product that you will have part of the plant regrow.
You can cut off the top of the dandelion and it will still grow back.
That is the problem. Top Kill Only and no systemic action.
Dandelion grows back nicer and stronger looking next time.


Way over priced, heavy application rates.

No odor, minimal staining

Wide range of spray times and temperatures (*my favorite feature*)

Rusts metal fast. Clean spray components daily.

Label calls for 2 apps a year only.

I have seen local LCOs spray every 2 weeks for the season and still have unhappy customers.

If you could economically spray Fiesta for instant results on dandelion and an app of 2,4-D at the same time, you would have an awesome combination for weed control and lawn coloring.

Environmental benefits? contains heavy metal, input rates are very high, repeat application a must.

HayBay
12-21-2010, 10:05 PM
Does not affect crabgrass Barefoot James.
I dont think it did anything to nutsedge either, minimal testing on this one.

Fiesta Did not affect 600 sq foot new grass seed install 1 month after germination. It did help slow down weed growth to allow new grass seed to catch up.

Label says to not use on new lawn 1 year or less.

Barefoot James
12-21-2010, 11:07 PM
Great input JD and haybay (from ontario - who obviously has used it) - thanks. Sounds very short term - no interest. "Love the lawnsite" - saved me more money and time.
Barry - advice do not pick up this product.

NattyLawn
12-22-2010, 12:18 AM
I only used 3.5 gallons of Fiesta this year and wasn't impressed. I didn't get good weed control and there's too many red flags, many listed above by Haybay. I'm sticking with the Green Guardian and the new and improved formula. The GG rusts metal parts quickly as well. You have to keep things clean.

Haybay, there's a company in CO that used a dual trigger Lesco gun with 2,4-D and homemade GG. I looked into a dual trigger system and it wasn't cheap, but the appeal is definitely there.

Barefoot...I had good results spraying molasses on Nutsedge this year. It worked well, but it was hot and dry and the Nutsedge didn't return. I don't know if it kills the nut in a "normal" year.

HayBay
12-22-2010, 12:33 AM
Fiesta: Its the only legal product we have available to us that works a bit more than the others.

Organosol is the next one you will hear about. It is said to control weeds that Fiesta does not. I have tried it as a final application for 2010 at $250 a gallon covers 2500-5000 sqft and it did not even supress any weeds. I will retry in the spring if the product lasts over winter.

Crabgrass in lawns is the biggest problem in Ontario followed by weeds in lawns and especially boulevards, driveways, patios, graveled areas.

List of Alternative buyer beware Weed Contol products: (My Opinion)

Sarritor
Corn Gluten Meal
Fiesta- feHEDTA
Finalsan - Soaps of fatty Acids
EcoClear Horticultural Vinegar
Topgun
Organosol

And just in case anyone asks, I have not tried the Non-Genetically Modified Corn Gluten Meal for weed supression.

++

Thanks for that info Natty

Barefoot James
12-22-2010, 12:48 AM
Too bad you can't use Imprelis in Canada - >1/10th of an oz per 1000 sf affects the hormone and electrical system of the plant and is 100% effective on weeds crab and major supresses nutsedge and bermuda. No effect on fescue. Loving it.

HayBay
12-22-2010, 01:20 AM
I am drooling Barefoot James, that is an awesome sounding product for weed control.

We have a Canadian product PETRO Canada "CLEAR CHOICE' its a microtechnology product, I think they branded it nanotechnology before but they wont allow it for use here because it still has traces of 2,4-d in it.

http://www.todaysclearchoice.com/microtechnology.asp

organiclawncanada
12-23-2010, 05:58 PM
I too tried out Fiesta this year and wasn't too impressed with the results. It works OK. Some of the big companies are relying on it to solve their problems, instead of trying to re-educate their customers. :canadaflag:

ICT Bill
12-24-2010, 07:12 PM
Too bad you can't use Imprelis in Canada - >1/10th of an oz per 1000 sf affects the hormone and electrical system of the plant and is 100% effective on weeds crab and major supresses nutsedge and bermuda. No effect on fescue. Loving it.

I had not heard of Imprelis and did a little research, it goes back to 1941

Researches on Pyrimidines. Derivatives of Pyrimidine-5-carboxylic Acid1,2
Joseph C. Ambelang, Treat B. Johnson
J. Am. Chem. Soc., 1941, 63 (5), pp 1289–1291
DOI: 10.1021/ja01850a040
Publication Date: May 1941

ICT Bill
12-27-2010, 08:44 PM
Too bad you can't use Imprelis in Canada - >1/10th of an oz per 1000 sf affects the hormone and electrical system of the plant and is 100% effective on weeds crab and major supresses nutsedge and bermuda. No effect on fescue. Loving it.

Do not use grass clippings from treated areas for mulching or compost, or allow for collection to composting facilities.
Grass clippings must either be left on the treated area, or, if allowed by local yard waste regulations, disposed of in the trash. Applicators must give verbal or written notice to property owner/property manager/residents to not use grass clippings from treated turf for mulch or compost.

Do not seed, sod, sprig, or plug treated area with warm season turfgrasses until at least 60 days after application.
Do not apply to irrigation ditches or water used for irrigation or domestic purposes.
Do not graze or feed forage, hay, or straw from treated areas to livestock.

Maintain a 25-foot buffer around non-target aquatic areas and between the point of direct application and the closest downwind edge of non-target terrestrial areas.
Apply IMPRELIS™ herbicide in a manner that will avoid contacting nearby susceptible crops or other desirable plants with spray droplets. Applications must be made only when the risk of spray drift is at a minimum. Very small quantities of spray, which may not be visible, may seriously injure susceptible plants including ornamental trees and shrubs.
Do not apply when the wind will carry spray mist toward susceptible crops or ornamental plants.

Aminocyclopyrachlor has properties and characteristics associated with chemicals detected in ground water. This chemical may leach into ground water if used in areas where soils are permeable, particularly where the water table is shallow

Do not enter or allow worker entry into treated areas during the restricted-entry interval (REI) of 12 hours.
For early entry into treated areas that is permitted under the Worker Protection Standard and that
involves contact with anything that has been treated, such as plants, soil, or water, wear

Keep people and pets away from treated area until treatment has dried.
Wait a minimum of 14 days to retreat.
Do not apply this product to exposed roots of trees and shrubs.
Do not apply to any ornamental bed.

harmless for sure! and probably the main reason you cannot use in Canada

HayBay
12-28-2010, 04:33 PM
Reading that label I would agree that it would be a hard sell here now.

I don't see anything harmful with that label. Neither does the EPA.

If a customer asked for a more socially acceptable product, I would not suggest this one to them.

Then I would have to give them the 2 hour talk about price, acceptable weed thresholds and customer expectations (15 minutes of discussion content repeated 8 times).

You know they have their hands in their ears and are humming while you explain it.

Tim Wilson
12-28-2010, 07:50 PM
Sounds like real nice stuff! What is there about herbicides which resounds with social acceptance? Is that really what it is about?

HayBay
12-28-2010, 08:36 PM
Tim,

I think you know what it's all about.

Start sharing.

starry night
12-29-2010, 10:07 AM
When I first heard about Imprellis, I went right to their website.
Soon into reading the precautions, I rejected it for my use.

HayBay
12-29-2010, 03:04 PM
Here is label.

http://www2.dupont.com/Professional_Products/en_US/assets/downloads/pdfs/H65717.pdf

This stuff control Ground Ivy and Violets, no temperature restrictions, pre and post emergence properties, wide variety of weeds covered.

Oral and Dermal LD>5000
http://msds.dupont.com/msds/pdfs/EN/PEN_09004a358053f153.pdf

To avoid damage, Drift or overspray issues would require a good applicator that knows what they are doing.

Returning clippings to the lawn is preferred rather than sending them to the Dump or City Compost Facility.

Pre and Post products usually have more buffer restrictions, they hang around longer.

Check out the boys in the Pesticide & Herbicide Apps Forum, they use this stuff:
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=334600&highlight=imprellis

Tim Wilson
12-29-2010, 09:58 PM
Tim,

I think you know what it's all about.

Start sharing.

Okay, you are correct. There is no such thing as a safe herbicide (yet; that I know of in my puny knowledge) except for Treegal's fingers.

How's that for sharing?

Tim Wilson
12-29-2010, 10:29 PM
Here is label.

http://www2.dupont.com/Professional_Products/en_US/assets/downloads/pdfs/H65717.pdf

This stuff control Ground Ivy and Violets, no temperature restrictions, pre and post emergence properties, wide variety of weeds covered.

Oral and Dermal LD>5000
http://msds.dupont.com/msds/pdfs/EN/PEN_09004a358053f153.pdf

To avoid damage, Drift or overspray issues would require a good applicator that knows what they are doing.

Returning clippings to the lawn is preferred rather than sending them to the Dump or City Compost Facility.

Pre and Post products usually have more buffer restrictions, they hang around longer.

Check out the boys in the Pesticide & Herbicide Apps Forum, they use this stuff:
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=334600&highlight=imprellis

Yeah, here are some points from there;

I will read the label further and in more depth, but If I am forced to supply all hidden documents on this product to landfills and customers, it will be shot down like a sick goose.
Why make this product so we all have to be the bad messenger.


What are you talking about?

I think he is talking about not being able to use the clippings for compost, so if they use a landfill that recycles clippings and such they cannot use ones that have been treated with this.

Supposed to be great on clover, wild violet and ground ivy. Had slides showing with pics of those three toasted by Imprellis

You guys want a spray that kills clover??? I just don't know.

HayBay
12-30-2010, 08:42 PM
Sounds enlightening as usual. Are you promoting "REMOVING GRASS CLIPPINGS FROM PEOPLES LAWN TO SEND TO COMPOST"? Organics 101 down the drain.

Ground Ivy and Violet are very difficult weeds to get rid of in a lawn with the legally registered products on the market, this one is reported to kill them.

I have deleted the rest, as usual when I reply to you. What is the point. Ive read your typing when you get mad. The disrespect starts.

Tim Wilson
12-30-2010, 09:21 PM
Sounds enlightening as usual. Are you promoting "REMOVING GRASS CLIPPINGS FROM PEOPLES LAWN TO SEND TO COMPOST"? Organics 101 down the drain.

Ground Ivy and Violet are very difficult weeds to get rid of in a lawn with the legally registered products on the market, this one is reported to kill them.

I have deleted the rest, as usual when I reply to you. What is the point. Ive read your typing when you get mad. The disrespect starts.

Are you inferring I go insane? [mad] Just fooling around, as in just having fun. I don't believe I've ever expressed anger with you. I suppose I have expressed pity for you being stuck in Ontario and empathising with the mindset but yes it has its incredible graces. Ooops, I better shut up or you are going to be truly embarrassed for me

One question though? What has "Are you promoting "REMOVING GRASS CLIPPINGS FROM PEOPLES LAWN TO SEND TO COMPOST"? Organics 101 down the drain." got to do with what I said?