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View Full Version : Frost and Freeze damage in Florida


abrightday
01-13-2011, 09:21 PM
There's a lot of freeze damage out there now,, What do you tell your customer?? What are you applying to help??

Ric
01-14-2011, 03:42 AM
There's a lot of freeze damage out there now,, What do you tell your customer?? What are you applying to help??

Abrightday

The first thing you tell your customer is DON'T CUT BACK FREEZE DAMAGE. My No freeze date in South Florida is March. I am sure your No Freeze Date is later. The layer of dead material protect the rest of the plant from more damage in the next freeze. This is the hardest thing to convince a customer NOT to trim back to early.

Plants are weak because of the freeze and very susceptible to fungus. Palm Trees are particularly susceptible. I find Cooper Sulfate like N count is an excellent preventive product.

The last thing I would advise is to fertilize. My tree & shrub Fert is always scheduled for just before our No Freeze Date.

abrightday
01-14-2011, 12:49 PM
Great answer, I tell them them the same thing. Tom McCubbin the local extension service agent tells them,"If it's brown,cut it down, if it's black hack it back. Unbelievable,, I have to keep re-educating people,, the next freeze could really kill your plant, if you hack it back.

Ric
01-14-2011, 01:37 PM
Great answer, I tell them them the same thing. Tom McCubbin the local extension service agent tells them,"If it's brown,cut it down, if it's black hack it back. Unbelievable,, I have to keep re-educating people,, the next freeze could really kill your plant, if you hack it back.

Abrightday

County Extension agents vary in quality from one county to the next. Fact is most of them aren't worth the Powder to blow them up. I won't even talk to my local county agent because he is a real Dofus. Instead I either call or travel to Lee County where Excellent agents Steve Brown and Roy Beckford are the Horticulture and Agriculture agents respectively.

Landscape Poet
01-14-2011, 02:16 PM
Abrightday

County Extension agents vary in quality from one county to the next. Fact is most of them aren't worth the Powder to blow them up. I won't even talk to my local county agent because he is a real Dofus. Instead I either call or travel to Lee County where Excellent agents Steve Brown and Roy Beckford are the Horticulture and Agriculture agents respectively.

I would have to agree with Ric that each county extension has a different quality of agent available. I would what I run into most often with my agents is just repeating data that is available on the web, university research that is outdated. Most have little information on turfgrass, most seem to be more consumed with flowers. Which that data has its place too.

I recently got back from a trip back home to MO Ric. It was very nice to go home and see the turfgrasses up there again especially now that I am studying them in that course from U of G that your recommended to me. While gone on my trip back up there, I took the time to really dig into the book and start really understanding the information available to me. I came back with lots of questions and so I was excited that upon my first day back I would be attending a local pesticide class at the county extension which Dr. Laurie Trenholm from the U of F would be speaking. She was patient and did a good job of answer all the questions I had for her in between breaks. So while not everything I hope for is always answered by my local county extension, nor would I use them as my sole information source, they do have events like this that make them well worth having around.

By the way ric - she has started referring to brown patch as zoysia patch. Do you have many zoysia lawns and is the fungus issue as big as others are saying? Would you say it is worse than fungal issues on SA? Here research has shown that their is most likely a relationship in less N to lower fungal issues on zoysia. Your thoughts?

gregory
01-14-2011, 09:25 PM
i am agree with ric i dont cut or trim nothing til it warms and stays that way. i dont cut my grass this time of the year either.


on the ext guys yea mr brown knows his stuff. i called him this week about the testing ric.


ric your year get any better?

Florida Gardener
01-15-2011, 11:08 PM
Same here. We had damage in dec as we had 4 freezes and 2 near freezes. Copperleaf, goldmound, and many other tropicals saw damage to one degree or another. Palms such as cocos, adonidia, and hyophorbes saw damage. As long as we don't get another freeze down here we should be fine. I hope we do so the cutting stays down.
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gregory
01-16-2011, 08:22 AM
i got rid of all my palms last year. one got killed and the others just look like crap. i live to far inland to have those in my yard. thats the biggest problem i see people dont know what they can have. we got alot of people moving here form maimi and they think they can have the same trees and plants as they did down there and then you drive around and see there yards burnt to hell...i like the palms and the way they look but everyyear they get burnt up and and it takes almost all year til they look good again then there burnt again.......

ted putnam
01-16-2011, 05:49 PM
I would have to agree with Ric that each county extension has a different quality of agent available. I would what I run into most often with my agents is just repeating data that is available on the web, university research that is outdated. Most have little information on turfgrass, most seem to be more consumed with flowers. Which that data has its place too.

I recently got back from a trip back home to MO Ric. It was very nice to go home and see the turfgrasses up there again especially now that I am studying them in that course from U of G that your recommended to me. While gone on my trip back up there, I took the time to really dig into the book and start really understanding the information available to me. I came back with lots of questions and so I was excited that upon my first day back I would be attending a local pesticide class at the county extension which Dr. Laurie Trenholm from the U of F would be speaking. She was patient and did a good job of answer all the questions I had for her in between breaks. So while not everything I hope for is always answered by my local county extension, nor would I use them as my sole information source, they do have events like this that make them well worth having around.

By the way ric - she has started referring to brown patch as zoysia patch. Do you have many zoysia lawns and is the fungus issue as big as others are saying? Would you say it is worse than fungal issues on SA? Here research has shown that their is most likely a relationship in less N to lower fungal issues on zoysia. Your thoughts?



Funny you say that. They no longer call it brown patch in my area, they refer to it as large patch.

Ric
01-16-2011, 08:33 PM
Funny you say that. They no longer call it brown patch in my area, they refer to it as large patch.

Ted

We are calling it Large Patch here not Zoysia Patch since we have more S.A. Than Zoysia. Micheal is like my corn county buddy when it comes to real facts.

Landscape Poet
01-16-2011, 11:57 PM
Ted

We are calling it Large Patch here not Zoysia Patch since we have more S.A. Than Zoysia. Micheal is like my corn county buddy when it comes to real facts.

So you are saying this is not what she said Ric? Funny - were you at the seminar that day? Please inform me that you were.

sweetz
01-18-2011, 10:24 PM
Abrightday

County Extension agents vary in quality from one county to the next. Fact is most of them aren't worth the Powder to blow them up. I won't even talk to my local county agent because he is a real Dofus. Instead I either call or travel to Lee County where Excellent agents Steve Brown and Roy Beckford are the Horticulture and Agriculture agents respectively.

This Tom Maccubbin http://www.cfnews13.com/tom-maccubbin and he's not just a county extension agent. He's writes articles for lawn and garden related magazines and he's on Ch. 9 & Ch. 13. He's on the radio, on over 23 Florida stations. He writes articles and does Q & A's in newspapers. - he gives tips & recommendations to everyone about their landscapes. I saw that same episode and almost crapped & said out loud - I'm going to have some explaning to do to some people. :hammerhead:

Landscape Poet
01-18-2011, 11:26 PM
This Tom Maccubbin http://www.cfnews13.com/tom-maccubbin and he's not just a county extension agent. He's writes articles for lawn and garden related magazines and he's on Ch. 9 & Ch. 13. He's on the radio, on over 23 Florida stations. He writes articles and does Q & A's in newspapers. - he gives tips & recommendations to everyone about their landscapes. I saw that same episode and almost crapped & said out loud - I'm going to have some explaning to do to some people. :hammerhead:

Yep, he is like the go to celebrity for any questions about Landscaping her in the Orlando Market especially for the home owners. On top of the books and articles mentioned in that Bio, he actual has his own on demand channel with all his weekly advice videos here on Brighthouse. Anything he endorses becomes a big hit where ever it is being sold.
He was at a recent pesticide class I attended at Orange County Extension but I must say that is the first time I remember seeing him at the seminars for the professionals, I think he may do more with the homeowners.


I know he used to be in charge of the "Master Gardener" program. Rob from Lawnsite here in Oviedo was in his last class, and that was several years ago from what I understand.

Landscape Poet
01-18-2011, 11:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwDv8Neu440

sweetz
01-18-2011, 11:57 PM
Yep, he is like the go to celebrity for any questions about Landscaping her in the Orlando Market especially for the home owners. On top of the books and articles mentioned in that Bio, he actual has his own on demand channel with all his weekly advice videos here on Brighthouse. Anything he endorses becomes a big hit where ever it is being sold.
He was at a recent pesticide class I attended at Orange County Extension but I must say that is the first time I remember seeing him at the seminars for the professionals, I think he may do more with the homeowners.


I know he used to be in charge of the "Master Gardener" program. Rob from Lawnsite here in Oviedo was in his last class, and that was several years ago from what I understand.

I've got Brighthouse here too, so I know what you're talking about. I think he has more to do with homeowners.

zturncutter
01-22-2011, 06:56 AM
http://forecast.weather.gov/showsigwx.php?warnzone=FLZ061&warncounty=FLC027&firewxzone=FLZ061&local_place1=Arcadia+FL&product1=Freeze+Watch

Here we go again and a cool week ahead.

MR-G
02-06-2011, 09:38 AM
this year we started offering "LAWN PAINTING" for those clients that just have to have a green lawn...lol...at first ithought it was kind of funny....but after really giving it a push people are doing it...it is not real profitable but it has helped keep the cash flowing...

zturncutter
02-06-2011, 09:45 AM
Where do you get your paint ?

Landscape Poet
02-06-2011, 10:27 AM
Where do you get your paint ?

Z you should be able to find this at your local Lesco I believe. If not give me a PM and I will give you a number for a company that sells it here locally.

zturncutter
02-06-2011, 10:38 AM
Thanks, I will check it out.

MR-G
02-06-2011, 10:38 AM
we have been using lesco paint....there are others that may be better priced but we havent tried them yet....the lesco paint seems to work ok when mixed at 3-4 oz. per gallon and getting about 100 sq ft per gallon coverage....its not for everyone as it gets expensive to do large lawns.....we have had most success with small front yards and small retail properties.

Ric
02-06-2011, 11:30 AM
Thanks, I will check it out.

Z Turn

Last winter there is guy on Midway near Elkcam that painted his Weeds. The yard jumped up at you like a sore thumb. BTW That part of the road is now closed do to making it 4 lane. He might of done it again. I have seen spot treatments that blended in very nicely, but so far I have not seen a great looking Paint job. That doesn't mean it can't be done.

The TV News has run stories several times last year about lawn painting in the big city. The guy on Midway is the only one in our area who I know of that offers it and I have not seen any yards painted but his.

You are welcome to barrow a self contained small 12V sprayer with battery if a back pack doesn't work. However if you are going to spray more than a yard or two, you can then buy your own. However I question the Demand for Turf Painting in our area.

MR-G
02-06-2011, 11:54 PM
the demand is not real high although not many people know about it or how it works...the best results we have found have been on flortam/st aug/seville with little to no damage other than frost....they look awesome after painting....but weeds and thin lawns tend to look like crap....spot treating a nice lawn is easy as well....blends in with color well.

Ric
02-07-2011, 09:48 AM
the demand is not real high although not many people know about it or how it works...the best results we have found have been on flortam/st aug/seville with little to no damage other than frost....they look awesome after painting....but weeds and thin lawns tend to look like crap....spot treating a nice lawn is easy as well....blends in with color well.

Mr G

It only stands to reason that better turf will look better than than Dirt and weeds. The Lawn on Midway Blvd I talked about is dirt and weeds. It looked real Tacky bright unnatural green


I have no desire to try lawn painting. However Would you care to share for others any tricks to painting lawns. Did you use a Back Pack or a power sprayer of some kind. How heavy are you applying the paint etc etc. From the TV stories I have seen, they show guys with power sprayers and paint type guns. As I said and you confirmed the Demand is not great for this service.

MR-G
02-07-2011, 04:27 PM
every lawn is a little different ric. some need more dye than others it depends on the color youre trying to blend it into...if the entire area is brown than you would more likely need 3-4 oz per gallon...the deepest green we have been asked for took 6 oz per gal...but looked fake as hell....most entire lawns we have done look real good at the 3-4 oz rate....regular sthil backpacks work great....we use them for the cutting in and smaller areas...we also use 25gal 12 volt rigs for the larger more open areas....main thing is to clean them out VERY well when done...you wont be able to remove any staining on the tanks but get all the dye out of the trigger/wand/hose and pump...its a nice add on to any biz.....

Ric
02-07-2011, 06:42 PM
every lawn is a little different ric. some need more dye than others it depends on the color youre trying to blend it into...if the entire area is brown than you would more likely need 3-4 oz per gallon...the deepest green we have been asked for took 6 oz per gal...but looked fake as hell....most entire lawns we have done look real good at the 3-4 oz rate....regular sthil backpacks work great....we use them for the cutting in and smaller areas...we also use 25gal 12 volt rigs for the larger more open areas....main thing is to clean them out VERY well when done...you wont be able to remove any staining on the tanks but get all the dye out of the trigger/wand/hose and pump...its a nice add on to any biz.....

Z turn

I withdraw my offer of loaning you a 12V sprayer. Sorry

zturncutter
02-07-2011, 09:21 PM
Z turn

I withdraw my offer of loaning you a 12V sprayer. Sorry

LOL, you mean to tell me you don't want green tanks. No problem after thinking about it and reading more specifics I don't think it is something I would consider offering. My lawns are way to big anyway from what I am reading about coverage, a light application of annual rye perhaps with of course an upcharge for additional mowings :weightlifter:

Ric
02-07-2011, 10:04 PM
LOL, you mean to tell me you don't want green tanks. No problem after thinking about it and reading more specifics I don't think it is something I would consider offering. My lawns are way to big anyway from what I am reading about coverage, a light application of annual rye perhaps with of course an upcharge for additional mowings :weightlifter:

Z turn

Light Coverage for sure. But once again I was driving down Midway Blvd today and it is now open but a PITA. Looking at all those older Mackle Home, I could not help to notice the weeds were greening up nicely. My point once again, IS THERE ENOUGH DEMAND in our area?? The real market is PGI & BSI etc. These Lawns all have Irrigation and either on a canal or across the street from a canal. Many of my customer had No Freeze Damage and those who did had minor damage. I have found over the years if you get S A in our Area green before Oct you can keep it green all winter long.



BTW It is the Palms and tropical ornamental that show the most stress from Cold weather. Be sure your customer get a preventive Copper Sulfate treatment on all their Palms and Tropical ornamental. after a cold snap they are very susceptible to fungus. A Limited Pesticide License is all that is needed

Az Gardener
02-08-2011, 12:49 AM
BTW It is the Palms and tropical ornamental that show the most stress from Cold weather. Be sure your customer get a preventive Copper Sulfate treatment on all their Palms and Tropical ornamental. after a cold snap they are very susceptible to fungus. A Limited Pesticide License is all that is needed

They are susceptible to all pests and disease after a harsh winter because they have to use up the lions share of of stored starches just to replace dead growth. So a good organic fertilization would go a long way to being proactive for the health of your plants. If you were really on your game you did this in the fall and you will follow up when the big flush of growth begins. We don't have much fungal problems here so I can't comment on the copper sulfate.

We have hard freezes every 4-5 years lately. Everything is toasty this year, we have had one stretch of night time temps below the mid 20's for 5 consecutive nights in my neighborhood. Last week it was 3 nights of the same and the first one had 40 MPH winds to go with it.

Ric
02-08-2011, 06:58 AM
They are susceptible to all pests and disease after a harsh winter because they have to use up the lions share of of stored starches just to replace dead growth. So a good organic fertilization would go a long way to being proactive for the health of your plants. If you were really on your game you did this in the fall and you will follow up when the big flush of growth begins. We don't have much fungal problems here so I can't comment on the copper sulfate.

We have hard freezes every 4-5 years lately. Everything is toasty this year, we have had one stretch of night time temps below the mid 20's for 5 consecutive nights in my neighborhood. Last week it was 3 nights of the same and the first one had 40 MPH winds to go with it.

AZ

Our no Freeze Date isn't until March 15 and any fertilizer applied now Orgasmic or other wise would be a big mistake, Yes Add that Fertilizer now and you will get insects. I will start fertilizing in late Feb and early March. I always add insecticide to my tank mix when applying Cooper Sulfate, Cooper Sulfate treatment is standard Protocol on our Palms and more tropical plants after a freeze. I am not sure now different our climates are, but I am sure we are a lot more humid being directly on the water.

Az Gardener
02-08-2011, 08:58 AM
I respectfully disagree. Fertilizer applied now will take at least 30 days to get into the plant and become active depending on soil temperatures. If you are applying a high N product I agree you will be more likely to get that big push of fleshy growth that is more susceptible to pests. I am not suggesting a high N product.

My disclaimer is if you are doing foilar applications and you have some green tissue left or if your soil temps have already warmed up to the low mid 60's. Other than that I don't see how products applied now will have any visible effect for another 30 days. It will take that long just to get into the plants system.

Ric
02-08-2011, 09:19 AM
I respectfully disagree. Fertilizer applied now will take at least 30 days to get into the plant and become active depending on soil temperatures. If you are applying a high N product I agree you will be more likely to get that big push of fleshy growth that is more susceptible to pests. I am not suggesting a high N product.

My disclaimer is if you are doing foilar applications and you have some green tissue left or if your soil temps have already warmed up to the low mid 60's. Other than that I don't see how products applied now will have any visible effect for another 30 days. It will take that long just to get into the plants system.

AZ

I believe you are missing the point that our climates are different. Air Temperatures might be in the same or close range. But GROUND TEMPERATURE are different. Because we have more moisture our ground does not go below the high 60's in winter. Our real Tropicals don't start growing until the Ground is 80 or above. Water holds heat and moist soil will stay warmer longer in Cold Air Temperature. See my post about Running irrigation all day before a expected freeze. By the same theory, dry ground warms faster than wet or moist ground.

You bring up a good point about Ground temperature because it is a BIG factor in plant growth. More so than Air Temperature. Now our very hot sun and normals highs this Spring of mid 80's for the tourist, will in fact give a surface ground temperature of close to 120 or higher and quickly raise our ground temperature to the magic 80 degrees for our tropicals.

I understand where you are coming from and welcome your reply. Theory is theory whether North or South, East or West, But please remember weather is different and plays a big big factor.

Landscape Poet
02-08-2011, 12:18 PM
Ric,

Answer this - currently the soil temps in YOUR area are in the low 70's. Assuming that temps continue to increase in the next week or two and the soil temps get to mid 70's. If you are applying a slow release formula such as 90% slow release. Would it not be about perfect timing? Just as the turf is waking up, the nutrients would be just begin to really start becoming available.

Ric
02-08-2011, 12:58 PM
Ric,

Answer this - currently the soil temps in YOUR area are in the low 70's. Assuming that temps continue to increase in the next week or two and the soil temps get to mid 70's. If you are applying a slow release formula such as 90% slow release. Would it not be about perfect timing? Just as the turf is waking up, the nutrients would be just begin to really start becoming available.

mikey

With all the cold stress those plants need fed. I will use what I always do which is a 50% slow release. Ornamentals have larger roots and more storage than grass. Therefore any fast release will still be up taken and stored if not used right away. Spring flush is important for plants to get off on the correct start for the year