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View Full Version : Briggs & Stratton; thumbs up or down..


jonathanone
01-17-2011, 01:54 PM
Just how good (or bad) are the upper model B/S engines:Vanguard and ELS/Professional, my experience with Vanguard has been less than impressive but everyone is entitled to make a mistake or two.
The Company still, as far as I can see, refuses to adopt a true commercial air filter/cleaner, does that really say it all ??

lawnpro724
01-17-2011, 02:02 PM
I have run several mowers that used the Briggs Vanguard engine and I have never had any problems at all. The Vanguard IMO is right up there with Kohler and Kaw. engines and I have put thousands of hours on the Vanguards I have had. I think proper maintenance is more important than engine brand.

mowerbrad
01-17-2011, 02:11 PM
I like the vanguard engines but thats about it. I owned an ELS engine (actually 2 but one was replaced under warranty). The ELS engine seemed to not run as smoothly as other engines I have used. Personally, I don't see how or why the ELS engines are rated for commercial use. I did like the Intek series engines though.

I'd really like to see the canister air fliters installed on these units and not have the standard paper ones. I know the smaller hp enignes never have the canister air filters on them, but once you get into the 20hp+, I think they should come on them. At least on the vanguard engines. Those standard paper air filters get plugged up so fast that you have to clean them at least once a day during dusty conditions.

ashgrove landscaping
01-17-2011, 02:13 PM
So far with my 32 hp vanguard, 500+hrs., I would say they are better than kawi and kohler. Much quieter and less pollution. Just as efficient or better on fuel. And the vanguards have the exact same air filter/cleaner as the rest so I 'm not sure what you are talking about there.

LibertyFarmLandscaping
01-17-2011, 02:20 PM
Same here. I have 3 of the 35HP Vanguards on TT's. Quieter, smoother. Avg 1.6 gph vs. around 2 gph or more on similar hp Kawi's and Kohlers. Little over 800 hours is the highest of the 3 machines.

HenryB
01-17-2011, 02:24 PM
Here's how I view it:
Briggs (non-Vanguard)= Ford
Kawasaki=Toyota
Honda=Honda
Kohler=Nissan
Robin/Subaru=Hyundai
Vanguards are made in Japan. They are a great motor.
Briggs and Stratton should be ashamed of themselves for producing Garbage I know they can do better. If US companies did what they were capable of we'd be world leaders.

Hawg City Lawns
01-17-2011, 02:30 PM
thumbs down wayyyy down on the els series

ratfink
01-17-2011, 02:31 PM
Vanguards are excellent engines and up there with anything on the market. ELS is for the most part is a Intek with a better oil filter and better air filter.

ratfink
01-17-2011, 02:32 PM
Vanguards are made in Japan. They are a great motor.

Some are made in Japan (mainly the V twins), Some are made in China (mainly small Horizontal shafts) and the rest in the USA.

Alan0354
01-17-2011, 05:23 PM
Here's how I view it:
Briggs (non-Vanguard)= Ford
Kawasaki=Toyota
Honda=Honda
Kohler=Nissan
Robin/Subaru=Hyundai
Vanguards are made in Japan. They are a great motor.
Briggs and Stratton should be ashamed of themselves for producing Garbage I know they can do better. If US companies did what they were capable of we'd be world leaders.

Bad analogy, Ford is doing very well in the reliability in the last 5+ years. They are right up there with the best. Toyota actually has sign of going down. Hyundai are getting better and better.

It should be analogus to Crysler. AND no, all American auto company are not the same. Ford beat the other two by quite a bit as shown consistantly in the Consummer Reports and JD Power and even on the news.

HenryB
01-17-2011, 06:05 PM
Bad analogy, Ford is doing very well in the reliability in the last 5+ years. They are right up there with the best. Toyota actually has sign of going down. Hyundai are getting better and better.

It should be analogus to Crysler. AND no, all American auto company are not the same. Ford beat the other two by quite a bit as shown consistantly in the Consummer Reports and JD Power and even on the news.

Ford is not as reliable as a Toyota or a Honda. Period. I wish they were. I've worked in gas stations since I was 12yrs old. The magazines you mention are biased sources. How many Ford Taurus' got great reviews higher than Camry's and Accords. Only to fall apart. I've owned every Ford from Fairmonts ,to Thunderbirds toTaurus', to F 150's 250's, 350's 450's 550's. So many it's mindboggling. As you can see I support American cars.
I believe they need to be told the truth about their cars no blind loyalism. The truth has already made them improve their vehicles and US companies still have a long way to go.
As americans we should demand they make a quality car or truck. (they really can) If they did this the Japanese never would have taken so much of the market share.

jonathanone
01-17-2011, 06:07 PM
Which oem is using Vanguards with a canister style air cleaner ?

K/B
01-17-2011, 06:21 PM
New this year, B&S has an integrated Cyclonic air filtration system on some of their pro engines. Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TqkLhIzkQ0

TheOctagon
01-17-2011, 06:32 PM
Which oem is using Vanguards with a canister style air cleaner ?

Every mower mfg with a vanguard v-twin has a canister style air filter that ive seen. At least above 23hp anyway. I believe its a donaldson unit.

Alan0354
01-17-2011, 07:54 PM
Ford is not as reliable as a Toyota or a Honda. Period. I wish they were. I've worked in gas stations since I was 12yrs old. The magazines you mention are biased sources. How many Ford Taurus' got great reviews higher than Camry's and Accords. Only to fall apart. I've owned every Ford from Fairmonts ,to Thunderbirds toTaurus', to F 150's 250's, 350's 450's 550's. So many it's mindboggling. As you can see I support American cars.
I believe they need to be told the truth about their cars no blind loyalism. The truth has already made them improve their vehicles and US companies still have a long way to go.
As americans we should demand they make a quality car or truck. (they really can) If they did this the Japanese never would have taken so much of the market share.

Things change since you were 12 years old!!!! This is on the news, not just consummer reports. Look at the Toyota Camry V6, Lexus GS, they have their share of problems. I am not even talking about the Prius. This has nothing to do with buy American. I don't own any American car, I just keep very close tap on the auto news. I follow the trend since the early 80s. The only one that is consistance good is Honda. Check out the new Hyndai, they are right up there with the good brands in terms of crash safety and reliability. AND they were the laughing stalk just a few years ago. Things change very very fast.

aroddy
01-17-2011, 11:26 PM
It's hard to go wrong with the Vangard Big Block briggs...They all have donaldson filter systems on them. The 28hp horizontal BB on my ferris gets good fuel consumption-around 1.5 gph on a 105 degree day in Arkansas. The vangard was the first engine to get a 3 year WORLDWIDE warranty on thier engines. Now kawasaki announced they are 3 year worldwide on their "fourstroke" engines- Im assuming that includes all the FH-FS-FX engines to compete

jonathanone
01-18-2011, 09:54 AM
Briggs is only using canister filters on their big blocks, while Kohler (mostly on the Commands) and Kawasaki are using these filters throughout their line-sort of tells me alot.

aroddy
01-18-2011, 12:30 PM
Thats not necessarily true- I know that Bad Boy is using extrenal donaldson filters on the 23hp models

jonathanone
01-18-2011, 06:38 PM
aroddy, which engines ?

TheOctagon
01-18-2011, 08:09 PM
The Vanguard 23hp i believe he means.

LexingtonKYcutter
01-18-2011, 09:03 PM
I'm not sure if there ever has been a better series of engines than the Briggs Big Blocks... The things have been bullet proof it 2 different types of mowers we have ran. Would rather have a Briggs Big Block over any Kawi or Kohler.

LibertyFarmLandscaping
01-18-2011, 11:16 PM
I'm not sure if there ever has been a better series of engines than the Briggs Big Blocks... The things have been bullet proof it 2 different types of mowers we have ran. Would rather have a Briggs Big Block over any Kawi or Kohler.

I will second that. The 3 Scag TT's with 35hp Vanguards run like the day they were new with 650 to 820 hours. Plus the gph at 1.6 vs. over 2 gph on the Kawi and Kohlers.:)

aroddy
01-18-2011, 11:53 PM
aroddy, which engines ?

Sorry fellas. But yes the 23hp vangaurd on the bad boy cant remember which model- think the CZT is the one with 23hp vangaurd on it.

nathannc
01-19-2011, 03:35 AM
Bad analogy, Ford is doing very well in the reliability in the last 5+ years. They are right up there with the best. Toyota actually has sign of going down. Hyundai are getting better and better.

It should be analogus to Crysler. AND no, all American auto company are not the same. Ford beat the other two by quite a bit as shown consistantly in the Consummer Reports and JD Power and even on the news.

I agree. I take exception to the analogy regarding Ford. They have been by far the most reliable American cars I have ever owned. Don't get me started on GM on the other hand. An interesting statistic that I read lately on MSN is that Ford is the car most likely to be owned by Millionaires.

HenryB
01-19-2011, 01:11 PM
Things change since you were 12 years old!!!! This is on the news, not just consummer reports. Look at the Toyota Camry V6, Lexus GS, they have their share of problems. I am not even talking about the Prius. This has nothing to do with buy American. I don't own any American car, I just keep very close tap on the auto news. I follow the trend since the early 80s. The only one that is consistance good is Honda. Check out the new Hyndai, they are right up there with the good brands in terms of crash safety and reliability. AND they were the laughing stalk just a few years ago. Things change very very fast.

I have a family member that owns each of the cars you mention. Trust me no big deal with them. Hyundai is making an excellent car as I think Robin/Subaru are excellent engines. Honda builds a great vehicle as does Toyo, & nissan runs a 3rd. As far as the big three Gm and Ford are more reliable than Dodge but not on par with Honda Toyota. Since I was twelve not much really has changed. Ford and Gm were winning accolades back then and still are. News and magazines have a slant always have.
Alan talk to some mechanics (good unbiased ones) They can explain more to you. I assume your young and learning alot on this forumn good for you and keeps your senses open.
There is a reason you don't see many Taurus from the 80's and 90's there in the junkyard. The Carrrolas Accords Civics Sentras etc never die and when they do they get sent south of the border for another 200,000 miles.

jkilov
01-19-2011, 01:30 PM
Most Briggs products are mediocre quality (quantum, intek) and worth their money, with some pieces just utter crap (ELS, XRD).

All the great briggs motors have one thing in common: they're not made by briggs:
- 2-strokes were made by Zenoah (later known as redmax)
- I/C singles were made by Mitsubishi
- Vanguard line made by Daihatsu

That being said considering the price some Briggs motors are well worth their cash, one of my quantums made it to 1200hrs.

7 IRON
01-19-2011, 01:42 PM
Vanguard was made by Daihatsu? Wow, never heard that one. I always had good luck with the Vanguard twins.

rwaters
01-19-2011, 05:39 PM
Vanguard was made by Daihatsu? Wow, never heard that one. I always had good luck with the Vanguard twins.

you will also see Toyota on some Vanguard engines...

Alan0354
01-19-2011, 08:02 PM
I have a family member that owns each of the cars you mention. Trust me no big deal with them. Hyundai is making an excellent car as I think Robin/Subaru are excellent engines. Honda builds a great vehicle as does Toyo, & nissan runs a 3rd. As far as the big three Gm and Ford are more reliable than Dodge but not on par with Honda Toyota. Since I was twelve not much really has changed. Ford and Gm were winning accolades back then and still are. News and magazines have a slant always have.
Alan talk to some mechanics (good unbiased ones) They can explain more to you. I assume your young and learning alot on this forumn good for you and keeps your senses open.
There is a reason you don't see many Taurus from the 80's and 90's there in the junkyard. The Carrrolas Accords Civics Sentras etc never die and when they do they get sent south of the border for another 200,000 miles.

I wish I am young!!:laugh: GM is spoty, some are good and some are not so. Cryslers are all bad for sure. The worst ones are europeans now.....Like Mercedes, BMW, Volks. And forget about Italian crap unless you have money to burn.

But as I said, things do change fast, it is only the last 7 or so years that Ford rise up. Before that, Ford is no better than the other two. This is like 10 or 15 years ago, European cars like Mercedes were quite good. Audi used to be at the bottom and now they are at least acceptable. I am not so sure you can say Nissan is really that good. I would say Ford is slightly better than Nissan but not as good as Honda. Mazda is spoty also.

jonathanone
01-20-2011, 08:50 AM
The cost to repower with Briggs is identical or nearly so to the cost to repower with Kawasaki-which way would you go? AND when you compare hp Briggs is always offering about 20% more which lends credibility to the saying that when Kawasaki talks BS walks-or it does to us..
More hp with alot less air filter-makes sense to me.

rreyn1812
01-20-2011, 11:50 AM
Vanguard was made by Daihatsu? Wow, never heard that one. I always had good luck with the Vanguard twins.

I had not heard that either, but makes me feel better about them now. Here is info from the Vanguard engines web site -- http://www.vanguardengines.com/about-vanguard-engines/

World Class Commercial Products
Through an alliance with recognized commercial engine manufacturer Daihatsu, a member of the Toyota Group, we are able to offer the most complete range of commercial engines. From 2.4 to 36 HP, liquid cooled to air-cooled and gas powered to turbo diesel, Vanguard engines provide the broadest range of commercial power solutions for your equipment.

madeinusa
02-23-2011, 11:05 AM
i have a B&S intek els twin 18 horse and i never had any problems yet? any thing i should look out for