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greenacres2010
01-19-2011, 10:12 PM
Can you find good employs that aren't dopeheads? How do you guys find decent help?Every year the only guys i can find to help and we work 50-60 hrs a week is freaking pill heads and if I have to put up with the drama and crap this year I'll down size and go solo again any advice?

dwlah
01-19-2011, 10:36 PM
You can find them BUT what happens with me is they find another job.
Im with you about downsizing and going back solo

mowerbrad
01-19-2011, 11:19 PM
Look at the wages that most employees in this industry make. The wages really aren't going to attract highly educated people nor outstanding citizens in your community. Yes, you can get some great "diamond in the rough" employees but it really depends on the wages and benefits you offer.

elitefox
01-19-2011, 11:22 PM
Isn't drugs what makes lawncare workers :laugh::laugh:

Ever thought of a drug test?? Might help...

aroddy
01-19-2011, 11:25 PM
You say drug test and they just turn around and walk out lol

Chilehead
01-19-2011, 11:35 PM
In the "Employment" section of my website, I clearly state that you must download and complete a job application, submit a resume, submit a cover letter, and submit to a background check. Since doing this, the number of applicants has dropped to near zero although my analytical charts show that we are still getting many people viewing the job postings. I figure if someone can't complete basic business fundamentals, it will save me the headache and time from bothering with them. The best employee for the solo guy is a new, highly -efficient machine. For instance, I use a 48" walk-behind as my main mower. I could upgrade to a 52" stand-on unit and replace my 21" with a 36" for small gates. Here's another one: I land a $5000.00 landscape job that includes 20 15-gal. trees and a retaining wall. So I buy a "crew". My "crew" is a Boxer 427 compact utility loader with auger bits, trencher , and bucket. Now I AM a 3-man crew.

Goetso
01-20-2011, 07:09 AM
I have been tempted to hire employees this year, but with all the problems I hear you talking about, maybe my solo opp. isnt such a bad idea. But when you really break it down, the odds are never in favor of a seasonal occupation.

Think about it. If the guy is anything half way reliable/responsible he will either have a job already or not want to get dirty and sweaty doing this. Not to say that an owner cant come across a good collage student, but even if you do, he ends up leaving you for school before winter comes and than you have to train a burnt our meth addict for 2 months of baby sitting. I dont know, it seems to me like a guy should invest the wages of a bad employee into bigger and better equipment to cut the time down even more.

BrunoT
01-20-2011, 07:18 AM
I guess those crazy Americans don't find the prospect of no advancement potential, meager if any benefits, no status, probable forced retirement due to health by age 50, sometimes brutal work conditions, hard physical labor, irregular work hours, little job security, and most of all, the prospect of a whopping $12/hour if they're lucky, all that appealing.

Your s******ing illegal-hiring buddies did this to you. They drove wages down to mid 80's levels so that no decent person would even consider the industry anymore. Anyone who can drive a forklift in a warehouse, answer a phone, pick parts off a shelf, cook food, run a cash register, work on a factory line, or even speak English at all even considers it anymore unless they have some issue (such as drugs) and can't get a better job.

People are unemployed and need jobs now. But 25 years of telling them this is work suitable only for immigrants and that doing it will mean they lose status in the eyes of their family and peers means they don't even think of it as an alternative. Also, do you really want to hire on an accountant who made $80,000 but needs the temporary work? He'll be gone the day he finds a better job.

My wife tells me of people she observes at work who shuffle papers but can't tell you what 8x8 is (literally) or who simply answer the phones who make $35,000 plus about $5000 of corporate benefits. That's $20/hour. Why would someone smart and willing to work hard work for anything less?

But, perhaps things are changing

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703951704576092381196958362.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsSecond

AI Inc
01-20-2011, 07:24 AM
Ive had people work for me for 30+ yrs. Trust me, ya need to go thru 10 to find 1 to keep.

BrunoT
01-20-2011, 07:26 AM
In the "Employment" section of my website, I clearly state that you must download and complete a job application, submit a resume, submit a cover letter, and submit to a background check. Since doing this, the number of applicants has dropped to near zero although my analytical charts show that we are still getting many people viewing the job postings. I figure if someone can't complete basic business fundamentals, it will save me the headache and time from bothering with them. The best employee for the solo guy is a new, highly -efficient machine. For instance, I use a 48" walk-behind as my main mower. I could upgrade to a 52" stand-on unit and replace my 21" with a 36" for small gates. Here's another one: I land a $5000.00 landscape job that includes 20 15-gal. trees and a retaining wall. So I buy a "crew". My "crew" is a Boxer 427 compact utility loader with auger bits, trencher , and bucket. Now I AM a 3-man crew.

Very good point. What happens when you have easy cheap labor in a market is that capital (machines) is neglected in favor of the cheap labor. I see way too many lawns out there being mowed by old 36" gear drive pistol grip POS mowers, 21" Murrays, etc, at glacial paces. I've also witnesses a line of Latino workers (someone stopped by the street corner labor pool!) with shovels walking shovelfulls of earth from a pile to a place they were putting it. A loader could have done that in 1 minute. I've seen guys with sledgehammers trying to break up a concrete driveway. Or employees with a small rototiller trying to renovate a large lawn. All because someone didn't want to make the investment of capital in equipment.

The same applies to the fruit harvesting industry. There are machines that will do much of it, but the owners say the labor is cheaper than investing in the machine and one operator. When wages rise suffciently, that will change. It already is I'm told.

For decades now it's been easier to just shove lots of bodies out there with mediocre/poor equipment.

oldclawn
01-20-2011, 11:53 AM
You critcize old mowers, etc---everyone starts someplace with whatever they can get their hands on---and a lot of people--illegals or not are just basically trying to feed their families
We have the same "competition" here that everyone has but if YOU ARE GOOD AT WHAT YOU DO then you are busy doing your job and not worrying about others business. Good, honest work will always sustain you and it's always better to pay mind to business whats your and pay no mind to the business of others...

hackitdown
01-20-2011, 12:19 PM
I guess those crazy Americans don't find the prospect of no advancement potential, meager if any benefits, no status, probable forced retirement due to health by age 50, sometimes brutal work conditions, hard physical labor, irregular work hours, little job security, and most of all, the prospect of a whopping $12/hour if they're lucky, all that appealing.

Your s******ing illegal-hiring buddies did this to you. They drove wages down to mid 80's levels so that no decent person would even consider the industry anymore. Anyone who can drive a forklift in a warehouse, answer a phone, pick parts off a shelf, cook food, run a cash register, work on a factory line, or even speak English at all even considers it anymore unless they have some issue (such as drugs) and can't get a better job.

People are unemployed and need jobs now. But 25 years of telling them this is work suitable only for immigrants and that doing it will mean they lose status in the eyes of their family and peers means they don't even think of it as an alternative. Also, do you really want to hire on an accountant who made $80,000 but needs the temporary work? He'll be gone the day he finds a better job.

My wife tells me of people she observes at work who shuffle papers but can't tell you what 8x8 is (literally) or who simply answer the phones who make $35,000 plus about $5000 of corporate benefits. That's $20/hour. Why would someone smart and willing to work hard work for anything less?

But, perhaps things are changing

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703951704576092381196958362.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsSecond

This post says it all.

I'm a tiny company, one real full time guy, and from 2 to 4 part timers if needed in the spring. But I found that paying more than average will help retain a good employee. An extra $2 per hour can deliver results. I paid my main guy a Christmas bonus this year that equaled a week's pay. And I slide a little cash on the side if I have an exceptional day or week. Maybe lunch or a beer or 2 on Friday for the day labor. I pay double for plowing hours.

I would rather pay an extra $80 per week to a guy, so I know that I can lean on him when needed. I want him to think long and hard about leaving, or being late, or slacking, or doing anything that puts his job at risk.

I am one frugal SOB, but employees can make you or break you, you got to pay right. The "golden rule" applies.

mowyo
01-20-2011, 02:08 PM
This post says it all.

I'm a tiny company, one real full time guy, and from 2 to 4 part timers if needed in the spring. But I found that paying more than average will help retain a good employee. An extra $2 per hour can deliver results. I paid my main guy a Christmas bonus this year that equaled a week's pay. And I slide a little cash on the side if I have an exceptional day or week. Maybe lunch or a beer or 2 on Friday for the day labor. I pay double for plowing hours.

I would rather pay an extra $80 per week to a guy, so I know that I can lean on him when needed. I want him to think long and hard about leaving, or being late, or slacking, or doing anything that puts his job at risk.

I am one frugal SOB, but employees can make you or break you, you got to pay right. The "golden rule" applies.



I agree 100 %

BrunoT
01-20-2011, 05:14 PM
You critcize old mowers, etc---everyone starts someplace with whatever they can get their hands on---and a lot of people--illegals or not are just basically trying to feed their families
We have the same "competition" here that everyone has but if YOU ARE GOOD AT WHAT YOU DO then you are busy doing your job and not worrying about others business. Good, honest work will always sustain you and it's always better to pay mind to business whats your and pay no mind to the business of others...

It's a DESCRIPTION OF REALITY, not a personal attack on yours or anyone else's gear. The fact is more productive machines often cost less in the long run than lesser gear combined with lots of labor. The availablity of cheap labor changes the point at which the machinery becomes more profitable, that's all.

Anyone is welcome to use a shovel instead of a loader. The point of the thread was that good labor is hard to find, so the previous poster solved the problem by buying a very productive machine to replace labor. Artificially cheap labor has been proven to distort economies by reducing capital investment. Hence my examples I'd witnessed personally.

Clark Griswold
01-20-2011, 08:40 PM
It's a DESCRIPTION OF REALITY, not a personal attack on yours or anyone else's gear. The fact is more productive machines often cost less in the long run than lesser gear combined with lots of labor. The availablity of cheap labor changes the point at which the machinery becomes more profitable, that's all.

Anyone is welcome to use a shovel instead of a loader. The point of the thread was that good labor is hard to find, so the previous poster solved the problem by buying a very productive machine to replace labor. Artificially cheap labor has been proven to distort economies by reducing capital investment. Hence my examples I'd witnessed personally.

And that is exactly what the auto industry has done, it's mostly robots & good machines today!

No more bad employees, no more sick employees, work 24 hours without complaining, no more retirement & benefits, no more union bullcrap, etc, etc, etc!

And we sit here and wonder where all the good jobs went to and why the rust belt is absolutely dead!

JimLewis
01-21-2011, 12:14 AM
I guess those crazy Americans don't find the prospect of no advancement potential, meager if any benefits, no status, probable forced retirement due to health by age 50, sometimes brutal work conditions, hard physical labor, irregular work hours, little job security, and most of all, the prospect of a whopping $12/hour if they're lucky, all that appealing.

You're right. Most lazy americans don't find the work we do appealing. In fact, any kind of work that involves physical exertion isn't high on most lazy americans list these days. Farm work, nursery work, landscape work, construction work, restaurant work, manufacturing, etc. never did pay all that much - even back in the 80s. I know! I had all those jobs in that decade! But in the past, before everyone was allowed to sit around and play nintendo 4 hours a day....back when kids still had to do yard work...back when teenagers were made to get jobs....back when kids didn't have every damn thing given to them and nothing expected of them in return....back when the government didn't provide every damn thing for you and you actually had to go find a job instead of collecting unemployment for 99 straight months.... a lot of Americans were willing to start at the bottom at a hard labor intensive job in the hopes that it would be an entry level position that would help them land better jobs in the future or help them move up in that company. But now, most Americans won't even give our industry a decent shot. Most won't even last a few months before they give up.

For the rare few who are willing to do this kind of work and do it well, there are pretty decent opportunities for advancement, benefits, and decent salaries. I have 3 employees (all 3 born and raised USA American Citizens; one Hispanic and two White) at my company who all make over $20, two of them make closer to $30 an hour, with the money they bring home in bonuses. So the idea that an american who gets a job in this industry has nowhere to go and will forever be working hard for peanuts is pure bull. Most just don't want to ever give it a try. It's too much like hard work.

Your s******ing illegal-hiring buddies did this to you. They drove wages down to mid 80's levels so that no decent person would even consider the industry anymore.

That's not entirely accurate either. What happened was employers learned that if they found workers who would actually show up on time every day, work quickly, not take breaks constantly, not call in sick all the time, not constantly be trying to find reasons to finish early and leave stuff undone, keep a clean driving record, keep a great attitude and not fight you every time you directed them to do something - those employers found that if they could find employees who did all that, then production times would go up. Furthermore, employers found that if they could even pay a little bit less and still get all this, they could really start to make landscaping to where it was affordable for most of society. Instead of it just being something the rich and elite could afford to hire out for - all of a sudden with a lot more efficiency and a little less wages - landscaping was affordable to a whole new segment of society! And society responded. Back when I was growing up, I didn't know a single person who had their yard mowed by a company. These days, 80% of the people in my neighborhood hire out for that service (even most of those with capable teenagers in the house).

And you know who was willing to come in and perform like this, be reliable, work hard and true all day long and make things run efficiently? It was the Hispanics. Most of them immigrants. Many illegal. But many here legally too. It's not the nature of their citizenship that makes them hard workers. It's the nature of their upbringing. They were taught to work hard, not complain, take direction without arguing, and do it all happily. Our kids aren't taught that anymore. They're given iPhones at age 12 or 14 and never made to even lift a finger in the yard or even clean one thing in the big house they live in. They're given cars at 16 and allowed to watch TV and play video games and play in the internet for untold hours each day. So they grow up lazy as F&*# with absolutely no work ethic and are taught by people like you that it's all because of the "illegal mexicans" that they don't have a job.

No, it's not. It's because we're a bunch of lazy freakin' bassturds who have lost our work ethic and don't know what it means to put in a good honest day's work anymore. We're spoiled to the hilt and will only do jobs that require little actual effort and afford us the utmost in comfort and benefits. And if we do lose our job, no big deal, because the gov't will pay us for 99 months (or more). We're totally taken care of. We don't really have to work hard. It's the same reason our country can't make an automobile (or any other machine or toy) for a competitive price in this country.

I'm sorry. I just totally 100% disagree with you on this. I absolutely love the work ethic, attitude, honesty, and culture of the Hispanics. It's very admirable. There are very few people born and raised Americans who have anywhere close to the same ethic and values. And the few left that do, I think I've already hired.

bc3xx0
01-21-2011, 12:23 AM
If they weren't potheads they'd be able to hold a real job or buy their own equipment and start their own business.

lyndont
01-21-2011, 01:09 AM
I am 24 years old and I work a full time job and do this as much as I can on the side because I have a wife, a daughter, a mortgage and other bills but most people my age have completely lost the drive to do anything other than just get by. They are completely happy with 5 people splitting rent at a house and partying almost every night. I feel like as long as your willing to get your hands dirty anymore you will be alright. I have a bunch of friends that graduated from college and continue to take classes, putting off trying to work so they can continue taking out huge student loans and to them they are living the dream. One buddy of mine even bought a nice motorcycle with money that was supposed to be for school and he acts as if he doesn't have a care in the world. They will continue to do this and then refuse to work for less than 50k a year. They do not care about anything. I think it will just get worse. The thing I have a problem with here in oklahoma is my dad and I were doing carpet and tile installs for lowes about a year ago and all of the other contractors were taking on as many jobs as they could and subbing them down to illegals which is supposed to be against the law but nothing is ever done about it. I mean people down here talk all the time about getting them some mexicans. I don't agree with it at all. I am all about someone trying to better themselves but when someone will lay tile for $2 a ft they can have all of that they want. My dads retired army and feels the same way. They kill decent wages for labor down here. I am a conservative and against unions also but I am tempted sometimes to move back to northern indiana where unions are strong just because as my buddies up there in the carpenters union told me when they came down here for my wedding that that type of sxxt wouldn't fly up there. It just frustrates me sometimes. I feel like this type of work will be great if we follow arizonas lead on illegal immigration though.
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lyndont
01-21-2011, 01:15 AM
I will also chime in and say that people that are hiring illegals should get in more trouble for doing so. Who is supposed to stop this from happening because they aren't doing their jobs
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Exact Rototilling
01-21-2011, 01:30 AM
This entire issue of trying to find decent presentable non-drugie help has been a ponder fest for me.

How about hiring Fire Fighters just looking for some extra money but don't really need the job as an anchor income so when work tapers off in the down season they won't be irked and left looking for another job. No need to provide benefits since they already have that.

There are many hoops to jump through requirement wise and it is very competitive to get hired. Pretty much eliminates the drug issue, less likely to be smokers. They typically work 24 hour shifts. The down side to this is if they just came off a 24 hour shift beat tired or worse yet traded back to back shifts with a lots of night calls they will show up to work beat tired.

bc3xx0
01-21-2011, 01:32 AM
Dopeheads and Mexicans aren't killing the industry!! LCO's that worry to much about what the other guys are doing is killing the industry!!

"so and so don't have insurance", "he uses a gear drive walkbehind", "he has shiney knew equipment", Ever wonder why the picture forum is so hopping!! Its all about keeping up with the jone's and showing off!!

And of course mexicans and dopeheads are gonna be drawn to the industry!! It's mowing f'ing grass!! Come on, it isn't building watches or spacecraft!! If you don't want to hire them, then don't. How the f do you know they are illegal anyways? Do you stop and ask to see their papers when you see one mowing?

lyndont
01-21-2011, 01:53 AM
I wouldn't say they are all illegal but when they are grown men that can't speak english fluently, don't have drivers license and 10 of them are piled into and in the back of 1 truck I would bet money they aren't legal. They are easy to come by though they hang out at temp services just waiting for some dumb a$$ to come and pick them up. You have to be a part of the problem to not realize that they hurt this industry, just like they hurt any other labor job. Why don't we all just bid on everything, not do any of the work, not worry about payroll, give them cash under the table and sleep great at night. I don't care so much that they are willing to work but any hard labor job should pay atleast $14 an hour and when they will do it for $8 that's a problem. Look at the tulsa craigslist under labor jobs. One company actually said that speaking spanish was a plus and the wage said $8 hour. It may be funny to you but its a problem. I wouldn't even feel right doing that. Its like the wild west down here. That's why so many decent people down here would rather be in business for themselves.
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lyndont
01-21-2011, 01:55 AM
I don't think anyone stops and asks to see their papers but someone should. Just looking the other way or ignoring what's going on isn't going to help things.
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soloscaperman
01-21-2011, 02:12 AM
you're right. Most lazy americans don't find the work we do appealing. In fact, any kind of work that involves physical exertion isn't high on most lazy americans list these days. Farm work, nursery work, landscape work, construction work, restaurant work, manufacturing, etc. Never did pay all that much - even back in the 80s. I know! I had all those jobs in that decade! But in the past, before everyone was allowed to sit around and play nintendo 4 hours a day....back when kids still had to do yard work...back when teenagers were made to get jobs....back when kids didn't have every damn thing given to them and nothing expected of them in return....back when the government didn't provide every damn thing for you and you actually had to go find a job instead of collecting unemployment for 99 straight months.... A lot of americans were willing to start at the bottom at a hard labor intensive job in the hopes that it would be an entry level position that would help them land better jobs in the future or help them move up in that company. But now, most americans won't even give our industry a decent shot. Most won't even last a few months before they give up.

For the rare few who are willing to do this kind of work and do it well, there are pretty decent opportunities for advancement, benefits, and decent salaries. I have 3 employees (all 3 born and raised usa american citizens; one hispanic and two white) at my company who all make over $20, two of them make closer to $30 an hour, with the money they bring home in bonuses. So the idea that an american who gets a job in this industry has nowhere to go and will forever be working hard for peanuts is pure bull. Most just don't want to ever give it a try. It's too much like hard work.



That's not entirely accurate either. What happened was employers learned that if they found workers who would actually show up on time every day, work quickly, not take breaks constantly, not call in sick all the time, not constantly be trying to find reasons to finish early and leave stuff undone, keep a clean driving record, keep a great attitude and not fight you every time you directed them to do something - those employers found that if they could find employees who did all that, then production times would go up. Furthermore, employers found that if they could even pay a little bit less and still get all this, they could really start to make landscaping to where it was affordable for most of society. Instead of it just being something the rich and elite could afford to hire out for - all of a sudden with a lot more efficiency and a little less wages - landscaping was affordable to a whole new segment of society! And society responded. Back when i was growing up, i didn't know a single person who had their yard mowed by a company. These days, 80% of the people in my neighborhood hire out for that service (even most of those with capable teenagers in the house).

And you know who was willing to come in and perform like this, be reliable, work hard and true all day long and make things run efficiently? It was the hispanics. Most of them immigrants. Many illegal. But many here legally too. It's not the nature of their citizenship that makes them hard workers. It's the nature of their upbringing. They were taught to work hard, not complain, take direction without arguing, and do it all happily. Our kids aren't taught that anymore. They're given iphones at age 12 or 14 and never made to even lift a finger in the yard or even clean one thing in the big house they live in. They're given cars at 16 and allowed to watch tv and play video games and play in the internet for untold hours each day. So they grow up lazy as f&*# with absolutely no work ethic and are taught by people like you that it's all because of the "illegal mexicans" that they don't have a job.

No, it's not. It's because we're a bunch of lazy freakin' bassturds who have lost our work ethic and don't know what it means to put in a good honest day's work anymore. We're spoiled to the hilt and will only do jobs that require little actual effort and afford us the utmost in comfort and benefits. And if we do lose our job, no big deal, because the gov't will pay us for 99 months (or more). We're totally taken care of. We don't really have to work hard. It's the same reason our country can't make an automobile (or any other machine or toy) for a competitive price in this country.

I'm sorry. I just totally 100% disagree with you on this. I absolutely love the work ethic, attitude, honesty, and culture of the hispanics. It's very admirable. There are very few people born and raised americans who have anywhere close to the same ethic and values. And the few left that do, i think i've already hired.

this is sooooooooooo true!!!

Cajun Cleanin'
01-21-2011, 02:26 AM
In Arizona they will stop them and ask for their papers.Anyone in Arizona want to coent on the labor shortage out there?

lyndont
01-21-2011, 02:41 AM
Arizona they will stop them and ask for their papers.Anyone in Arizona want to coent on the labor shortage out there?
That is a great question but I think it will take a couple years to make a big difference. You have to realize for everyone they catch there's 10 more to take their place. They may have a labor shortage but I bet its great for people willing to work and I would bet that the wages for them will be decent.
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lyndont
01-21-2011, 02:54 AM
You really can't blame the illegals for it because they are just trying to better the situation. Its the people hiring them, working them 60 hrs a week and not paying them legally that are the problem and if they start being punished hard enough to where its not worth the risk you will see wages for this type of work go up. It just cracks me up that so many people gripe about lowballers and not so much about this. I don't have the nicest stuff but it is all payed for and I can mow a lawn for $25. I am just trying to get a lot of work in a certain area to where I don't have to drive much. I try to work things out to where I atleast make $20 an hour and if I can make more that's great.
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greenacres2010
01-21-2011, 12:53 PM
I found some spanish speaking guys and thinking about trying them,they just do the jobs that the white man is to sorry to do. It might not be as bad everywhere else but around here there are help wanted signs in every window and everybody screaming there aren't any jobs. The guys you can find to work take home $500-$600 a week and come Monday morning they want you to buy em a pack of smokes and then their luch

greenacres2010
01-21-2011, 12:57 PM
I'm talking LEGAL hispanic workers, found a few with papers think i might try em cause whatever I've been doing isn't working

lawnpro724
01-21-2011, 01:04 PM
In the "Employment" section of my website, I clearly state that you must download and complete a job application, submit a resume, submit a cover letter, and submit to a background check. Since doing this, the number of applicants has dropped to near zero although my analytical charts show that we are still getting many people viewing the job postings. I figure if someone can't complete basic business fundamentals, it will save me the headache and time from bothering with them. The best employee for the solo guy is a new, highly -efficient machine. For instance, I use a 48" walk-behind as my main mower. I could upgrade to a 52" stand-on unit and replace my 21" with a 36" for small gates. Here's another one: I land a $5000.00 landscape job that includes 20 15-gal. trees and a retaining wall. So I buy a "crew". My "crew" is a Boxer 427 compact utility loader with auger bits, trencher , and bucket. Now I AM a 3-man crew.

Fist of all you need to re-evaluate your price point. 20 15gal trees planted and a retaining wall for $5000.00. Man you work really cheap.

Evan528
01-21-2011, 02:56 PM
The only solution to this problem is to hire spanish speaking individuals. Pay them a fair wage, treat them well, and give them a lot of hours and you will have a reliable hard working employee who shows up EVERY day and is ready to work hard.

andyslawncare
12-06-2011, 07:52 PM
. My "crew" is a Boxer 427 compact utility loader with auger bits, trencher , and bucket. Now I AM a 3-man crew.

I love the Boxer! Its a good investment, is it? I've been renting several types to find the one to buy...

BlazerRidge
12-06-2011, 11:06 PM
My view on it is what you do on your OWN time is your business. But if you are on the clock then you can't have anything like that in your system (alcohol, drugs, etc...) or on your person. I'm up front with my guys and I told them that if it happens once they are gone. Also they aren't allowed to wear company shirts at any other than when we are working. I pay my guys good wages but I expect them to be clear headed, work hard, and no complaining.

Big Wes
12-07-2011, 07:54 AM
My take on the help situation is:

"Bad help is hard to get, and Good help is impossible to get"

ralph02813
12-07-2011, 08:12 AM
I generally fly solo except for one guy that works 3 - 6 hours a week for me on my non grass cutting day - he is 10 years younger than me - he turns 55 next week. We get to the job, he is usually waiting for me, and I am 10 minutes early everywhere - I tell him what we are doing he does it, as good or better than me and thanks me every day he works. My next part timer will by a used 48 wb if I can find a good one - any other part time help I will rent.

Wright48
12-07-2011, 11:20 AM
I here you on getting good workers, This season I have beeen threw about 15 guys. There either drunks,on drugs, going to jail every weekend they go out to the bar or no responsibility or just straight up lazy. I Have been threw all kinds of faces. The guy that was workiing for me that had a drug problem I fired after the third day. I looked at him and said are you ****** up he said no then I was watching him walk and he could barely do that. I fired him on the spot. Now I tell my new employees that there will be random drug testing and if your a driver of any equipment or vechles there will be manditory drug testing every 90 days and randomly in between. If there caught once I give them 30 days to clean up. If they fail 2 times there done and i dont care who it is or how long they've worked for me. remember if they hit somthing or hurt someone your the one that gets sued not them.

gebby
12-07-2011, 07:15 PM
Drug test before they are hired and random drug test there after. Do that and about 95% of your problems will just go away.

jcollin
12-07-2011, 10:02 PM
Americans in general are disgusting people. We are overweight, greedy, self absorbed and lazy. If its hard we just give up and wait for someone else to take care of it. If you want to blame anyone blame the guys that hire the ILLEGAL aliens. How can you blame the guy that overcame unbelievable hardships to get into this country just so he/she could work. I am personally against hiring ILLEGAL aliens just because it is ILLEGAL. I have worked with legal Mexicans and Guatamalans and most of them are really hard workers. At the end of the day we all have to remember we as they are human and should treat each other as such. A wise man once said "Love thy neighbor"

ed2hess
12-08-2011, 08:29 PM
We might have got lucky in that we got a army vet that did landscaping in Iraq. He came to work today for a trial period. Oh and better yet he is hispanic. This is likely a situation of a guy that is overqualified and woun't stay long. Would you hire him?

ralph02813
12-08-2011, 08:56 PM
This country is packed with over qualified people looking for an opportunity. I don't understand the hispanic part benefit - you could pass him up and hire someone who can walk and talk at the same time but will work for cheap.

alexschultz1
12-08-2011, 10:25 PM
look south of the border

94gt331
12-08-2011, 11:22 PM
I'm tired of dopeheads also, there everywhere and i don't want them working for me so next year im drug testing all my guys and im rehiring and going to start guys at a higher pay rate. I want good people so im ready to make good postitions for my workers to keep them around. I'm going to also make an employee handbook they have to read and follow. I have a guy that brings his girlfriend problems to work everyday im tired of it. It seems like all my guys that where on my crew this year the last thing they where worried about while at my jobsites was working in general. They think they can come to work when they want and take off when they want. And if they have something they need to take care they want to do it during the work day. They can't sacrifice there precious evening or weekends for there odds and ends. I hope to find guys next season that want to work for a living and take pride in there work and my buisness . That would be nice!

DA Quality Lawn & YS
12-09-2011, 11:39 AM
You're right. Most lazy americans don't find the work we do appealing. In fact, any kind of work that involves physical exertion isn't high on most lazy americans list these days. Farm work, nursery work, landscape work, construction work, restaurant work, manufacturing, etc. never did pay all that much - even back in the 80s. I know! I had all those jobs in that decade! But in the past, before everyone was allowed to sit around and play nintendo 4 hours a day....back when kids still had to do yard work...back when teenagers were made to get jobs....back when kids didn't have every damn thing given to them and nothing expected of them in return....back when the government didn't provide every damn thing for you and you actually had to go find a job instead of collecting unemployment for 99 straight months.... a lot of Americans were willing to start at the bottom at a hard labor intensive job in the hopes that it would be an entry level position that would help them land better jobs in the future or help them move up in that company. But now, most Americans won't even give our industry a decent shot. Most won't even last a few months before they give up.

For the rare few who are willing to do this kind of work and do it well, there are pretty decent opportunities for advancement, benefits, and decent salaries. I have 3 employees (all 3 born and raised USA American Citizens; one Hispanic and two White) at my company who all make over $20, two of them make closer to $30 an hour, with the money they bring home in bonuses. So the idea that an american who gets a job in this industry has nowhere to go and will forever be working hard for peanuts is pure bull. Most just don't want to ever give it a try. It's too much like hard work.



That's not entirely accurate either. What happened was employers learned that if they found workers who would actually show up on time every day, work quickly, not take breaks constantly, not call in sick all the time, not constantly be trying to find reasons to finish early and leave stuff undone, keep a clean driving record, keep a great attitude and not fight you every time you directed them to do something - those employers found that if they could find employees who did all that, then production times would go up. Furthermore, employers found that if they could even pay a little bit less and still get all this, they could really start to make landscaping to where it was affordable for most of society. Instead of it just being something the rich and elite could afford to hire out for - all of a sudden with a lot more efficiency and a little less wages - landscaping was affordable to a whole new segment of society! And society responded. Back when I was growing up, I didn't know a single person who had their yard mowed by a company. These days, 80% of the people in my neighborhood hire out for that service (even most of those with capable teenagers in the house).

And you know who was willing to come in and perform like this, be reliable, work hard and true all day long and make things run efficiently? It was the Hispanics. Most of them immigrants. Many illegal. But many here legally too. It's not the nature of their citizenship that makes them hard workers. It's the nature of their upbringing. They were taught to work hard, not complain, take direction without arguing, and do it all happily. Our kids aren't taught that anymore. They're given iPhones at age 12 or 14 and never made to even lift a finger in the yard or even clean one thing in the big house they live in. They're given cars at 16 and allowed to watch TV and play video games and play in the internet for untold hours each day. So they grow up lazy as F&*# with absolutely no work ethic and are taught by people like you that it's all because of the "illegal mexicans" that they don't have a job.

No, it's not. It's because we're a bunch of lazy freakin' bassturds who have lost our work ethic and don't know what it means to put in a good honest day's work anymore. We're spoiled to the hilt and will only do jobs that require little actual effort and afford us the utmost in comfort and benefits. And if we do lose our job, no big deal, because the gov't will pay us for 99 months (or more). We're totally taken care of. We don't really have to work hard. It's the same reason our country can't make an automobile (or any other machine or toy) for a competitive price in this country.

I'm sorry. I just totally 100% disagree with you on this. I absolutely love the work ethic, attitude, honesty, and culture of the Hispanics. It's very admirable. There are very few people born and raised Americans who have anywhere close to the same ethic and values. And the few left that do, I think I've already hired.

This is an old post, but man is it right on. Nobody wants to work for anything anymore, they want to be taken care of on everyone else's backs. But at least for those of us who want to work, there is still opportunity, albeit at the risk of Uncle Obama Sam taxing it all from us and giving it to those very same lazy devils.

PremierT&L
12-09-2011, 12:47 PM
I have learned that when it comes to staff, you get what you pay for.

Darryl G
12-09-2011, 01:19 PM
You know you're talking to a dope head when you tell them your company has a random drug testing policy and ask them how they feel about that and they reply: "Well, I'll try about anything you got but I rather know what it is first and I ain't smoking no dirt weed!"

ralph02813
12-09-2011, 02:53 PM
I have learned that when it comes to staff, you get what you pay for.

Absolutely the truth!

ed2hess
12-09-2011, 06:59 PM
This country is packed with over qualified people looking for an opportunity. I don't understand the hispanic part benefit - you could pass him up and hire someone who can walk and talk at the same time but will work for cheap.

Fits in with the rest of the workers and speaks spanish. Out of 40 applicants this guy and one other passed the first test i.e. show up for the interview.

Jayk
12-19-2011, 02:41 AM
Hi Fellas,
i'm from Australia. I have a pretty small business compared to you guys. Just me and one worker. Over here you realy need to pay at least $20/hr by law. We have pretty low unemployment so we have the same problem in finding good workers (just a different way to get there). my last worker was a pothead, so i had to let him go. The new bloke is fantastic (so far). There is no real class divide though when it comes to what sort of work you do ( unless your super super well off). Over the years ive been through heaps of guys, and the strike rate is probably 10 bad ones to one good one.

Dr.NewEarth
12-19-2011, 11:40 AM
I still can't believe you get away with working your employees for 50 to 60 hours a week.

Here we have fair, non-union labor laws for all employers and employees to abide by.

Any-thing over 8 hours a day or over 40 hours a week and we Must Pay Overtime.
We can only work 5 days a week and have to give employees two days off per week.

If I was working a 60 hour week doing the same routines...it would be so monotonous and exhausting...
I would probably need a "mother's little helper." Coffee wouldn't cut it by that time.

ralph02813
12-19-2011, 02:22 PM
I still can't believe you get away with working your employees for 50 to 60 hours a week.

Here we have fair, non-union labor laws for all employers and employees to abide by.

Any-thing over 8 hours a day or over 40 hours a week and we Must Pay Overtime.
We can only work 5 days a week and have to give employees two days off per week.

If I was working a 60 hour week doing the same routines...it would be so monotonous and exhausting...
I would probably need a "mother's little helper." Coffee wouldn't cut it by that time.

A lot of states here have the same laws, sooner or later someone will hire some that can count to 20 with the shoes and socks on and the will bring the pay stubs to the dept of labor, in RI after 48 is time and 1/2 sundays are time and a 1/2 and breaks are required in a four our period and a 1/3 hour lunch if you work six hours.

AlohaMowing
12-19-2011, 10:01 PM
Pay a good wage.

As much as possible, try to hire older workers, people who know what it is to have a job, who will appreciate regular work that pays decently, but were laid off or discharged/retired from the military.

Get good equipment to make the work less physically demanding so older workers can handle it.

ralph02813
12-19-2011, 10:47 PM
Pay a good wage.

As much as possible, try to hire older workers, people who know what it is to have a job, who will appreciate regular work that pays decently, but were laid off or discharged/retired from the military.

Get good equipment to make the work less physically demanding so older workers can handle it.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2:

calvinslawnservices
12-19-2011, 11:12 PM
I hire ex-military because they are use to hard work and
are always respectful to everyone.
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FoghornLeghorn
12-20-2011, 01:46 AM
Plus, you get a tax credit for hiring a Veteran, and a larger one if he is a Disabled Veteran. As a disabled Vet myself, this works great for me. I get to help a fellow Vet and get a tax break. Win-win
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