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JFGauvreau
01-24-2011, 10:55 AM
Anyone of you heard about Fiesta weed control? I'm trying to get my hands on it but it seems rather hard. Here in Ontario/Canada, since 22nd April 2009 there was a pesticide and herbicide ban across the province, so we were force to use some organic weed control that really didn't work. 12 months later Neudorff North America release a new weed control call Fiesta.

The main active ingredient is Iron in the form of FeHEDTA. So mainly a overdose of iron to weeds that kills them, but not the lawn. Says it works withing 48 hours.

Anyone else heard of that? If so how much was it? any additional info on the product?

Kmac
01-24-2011, 12:14 PM
Here in the states we have Ortho EcoSense weed killer or Gardens Alive Iron-X, both by Neudorff I believe. Its about $32.95 for the Iron-x concentrate (from Gardens Alive) which is better option for landscape professional. I had ok control with some weeds, not so good control with others. I am sure environmental stress had soemthing to do with level of control we saw. Dandelions immediately showed symptoms, but some grew back. Multiple applications will most likely be needed for adequate control. I think I heard we may get Fiesta here this year, but I am not sure if there will be any difference with formulations. Any one else hear any different, or have experience with our version of FeHEDTA?

greenoakie
01-24-2011, 04:30 PM
http://hamiltonturfking.ca/gerrys-blog/227-fiesta-weed-control-before-and-after-pics
http://hamiltonturfking.ca/gerrys-blog/220-fiesta-weed-control-in-cool-november-weather

Supplier Contact Ken Pavely at kpavely.lawnlife@xplornet.ca
www.dufferinlawnlife.com

phasthound
01-24-2011, 05:11 PM
It's my understanding that Fiesta needs to be applied with a higher rate of water than can be accomplished with a ride-on. Is that accurate?

HayBay
01-26-2011, 06:13 PM
DIRECTIONS FOR USE
SHAKE WELL BEFORE USING. One litre of product will treat between 62.5 and 125 m² (672.5 - 1345 ft²). Mix one part FIESTA Lawn Weed Killer with 24 parts water (40 mL in
960 ml of water). Apply the mixed solution at a rate of 200-400 ml/m2. Use the lower rate (200 ml spray/m2) on small weeds; use the higher rate (400 ml/m2) on large weeds and
on tough perennial weeds, such as clover. Any standard hand-held or backpack sprayer can be used.

The (big guys) tank sprayed it every 2 weeks for the year. Guess what, weeds came back.
Label says 2 apps per year.

JFGauvreau
01-26-2011, 06:21 PM
DIRECTIONS FOR USE
SHAKE WELL BEFORE USING. One litre of product will treat between 62.5 and 125 m² (672.5 - 1345 ft²). Mix one part FIESTA Lawn Weed Killer with 24 parts water (40 mL in
960 ml of water). Apply the mixed solution at a rate of 200-400 ml/m2. Use the lower rate (200 ml spray/m2) on small weeds; use the higher rate (400 ml/m2) on large weeds and
on tough perennial weeds, such as clover. Any standard hand-held or backpack sprayer can be used.

The (big guys) tank sprayed it every 2 weeks for the year. Guess what, weeds came back.
Label says 2 apps per year.

Interesting, I contacted one of the suppliers from Hamilton, he said it's best to do applications every 30days, but he says when you spray the weeds, they die withing 48hours, but then they regrow, that's when you have to spray them a 2nd time.

But still, I don't want to spray like 50 lawns and then come back in 2 days to spray them all, and then start over again in a month. I though FIESTA was way more powerful such as 2 apps per year.

I think nothing will ever beat the Killex we used to have/

HayBay
01-26-2011, 06:48 PM
Thats not how its done.

Spray, wait 2-3 weeks spray again. Then on top of that you have to use Organosol 5 times every 2 weeks to kill some of the other weeds in lawn.

I am talking about a spring application only. If you want control in the fall your out of luck with Fiesta (until they change the label to every 2 weeks). If you want season long supression with Organosol you need to spray every 2 weeks for a long time.

Just image in the cost in lawn signs alone.

If you have 50 customers. I guarantee you will be down to 15. Costs and Customer Expectations.

Landscape Exterminator is a thing of the past now in Ontario.

Or until the Liberals are voted out.

JFGauvreau
01-26-2011, 08:29 PM
Yup I agree, only thing that works is knowledge and experience, which most homeowners don't have.

Cutting to low, mower blade is not sharp, not enough water.
They don't fertilize, no core aeration, dethatching, top dressing etc.

Then they expect to hire a lawn care company with immaculate results in the first year.

I've seen so many Weed Man staff spraying the weeds on my neighbors, then they put their little signs beside the road with a lawn full of weeds. Nice advertising lol.

HayBay
01-26-2011, 10:54 PM
Weedman invested million in Sarritor.
Suppliers stock tonnes of it in their warehouses. (expires within 6 months)

Nobody buys it. It is too environmentally sensitive, just like nematodes. (water, sun, temp)

Suppiers have done the same thing again with stocking Fiesta, they buy in bulk.

They cant tell you it sucks. they will go out of business, they cant return the stuff.
They are just trying to follow the Provincial Regulations like a good business should.
Even if they know its at the expense of the purchaser.
They have no other products to offer or they would.
2,4-D was taken away from them too.

JFGauvreau
01-27-2011, 07:54 PM
Ya, all the big lawn care companies around Ottawa sprayed the weeds, that always came back as I watched them. On their website, they say they all used Fiesta.

I'm sure some business around here might use some chemicals, maybe some left over killex, it's just to obvious when you see them spray the lawn which is covered in yellow dandelions, then a week later its pure green. But of course their is big consequences to pay if you get caught.

kupham
03-12-2011, 04:17 PM
Ortho changed the name. I can't find anywhere to buy Fiesta in the States in a concentrate except for gardens alive (Iron x). Would be nice if we could get in in gallons or larger and save a few bucks.

ICT Bill
03-12-2011, 07:03 PM
Ortho changed the name. I can't find anywhere to buy Fiesta in the States in a concentrate except for gardens alive (Iron x). Would be nice if we could get in in gallons or larger and save a few bucks.

Barry Draycott is carrying it and sells it in 2.5 gallon and 5 gallon bottles, it is named fiesta, he is out of New jersey

www.techterraorganics.com
I am not sure if he has it up on his website, I think the ink is still drying from his agreement with them

I have heard of good results especially when mixed with methylated seed oil

kupham
03-13-2011, 11:44 AM
Than you bill. By the way, we buy Gluten 8 from you. Will be putting together our order very soon!
Posted via Mobile Device

NattyLawn
03-13-2011, 02:45 PM
Ortho changed the name. I can't find anywhere to buy Fiesta in the States in a concentrate except for gardens alive (Iron x). Would be nice if we could get in in gallons or larger and save a few bucks.

I don't know if Scott's ever released Fiesta in the US for retail. They did in Canada, but I don't know about here.

I didn't like the results, and don't know if using Iron will be detrimental for soil health.

ICT Bill
03-13-2011, 05:18 PM
I don't know if Scott's ever released Fiesta in the US for retail. They did in Canada, but I don't know about here.

I didn't like the results, and don't know if using Iron will be detrimental for soil health.


you make a good point, long term it may not support a healthy and vibrant soil food web

Mike (long time NOFA) from Plantscapes in CT said he had ok to disasterous results, i have heard others say the opposite........operator? Timing? expecting too much?

One gallon treats 5000 sq ft, that is an application rate of roughly 25 ounces per 1000 sq ft

phasthound
03-13-2011, 05:46 PM
Fiesta for non-retail is imported to USA by another company than Scott's.

It is regestered with the EPA as a biopesticide. http://www.epa.gov/opp00001/biopesticides/ingredients/factsheets/factsheet_034702.html

It is intended for use as a selective post-emergent spot treatment for broadleaf weeds in turf and beds.

Dr.NewEarth
03-13-2011, 05:53 PM
My company services stratas (hoa) around Vancouver, British Columbia. Some Cities here have pesticide bylaws and some do not. Many of them are waiting for a Federal Government law that is in the works, that will ban the cosmetic use of pesticides, herbicides etc.
Basically my company uses the non-toxic approach on "all" of our clients properties in the many cities around Vancouver. This includes controlling pests and diseases with IPM-Integrated Pest Management, PHC-plant health care techniques and beneficial insects.
We use a dandelion puller twice a year, aerate, lime, overseed, fertilize three to four times and we allow the lawns to grow 2 to 2.5 inches. That helps to choke out weeds and will give you a stronger healthier lawn. It also conserves water. We mulch the clipping for most of the year. Although when the wild Poa annua grass goes to seed twice a year, we bag it then.
It has been a struggle to educate people, because pesticides have been accepted and used since the end of the First World War. We all need to accept a few weeds.
They are an indicator of site conditions and can tell you what is deficient in your soil.
I've been a government licensed pesticide applicator since back when we used to have to suit up and use some very carcinogenic products. As a last resort we can still use Killex (and glyphosates) as a spot spray in the cities that don't have a pesticide bylaw yet. I do not recommend broadcast spreading weed-killer fertilizers containing 2,4-D, mecoprop and dicamba as that just poisons the entire area and gets into our ground water too. I believe 2,4-D made up part of "agent orange."
In the past few years I have used industrial acedic acid, soaps, propane burners and the like. The weeds come back eventually. If you can, fix the problem that is causing the weeds. Strangely, many Stratas will allow weed control with pesticides, but they won't fork out the money for a nice garden mulch that will help increase property value.
Last year in May the Canadian Federal Government approved the use of "fiesta" type products. Most of the supply ended up going to Ontario.
The H.D. and Canadian Tires were able to get some Eco-sense weed B gone to stores out here, but it went fast. $30-$40 per 4 Litres There is a better supply available for this season.
I used two applications of Eco-sense early last summer. It killed many annual weeds.
The perennials it knocked back a bit, which allows the lawn to grow stronger. Clovers are another kind of problem, particularly if they are established. Get a dandelion puller and aerate too.
The clients of the stratas where Eco-sense was used (Port Moody, Port Coquitlam) were very happy with the results. The iron also makes our lawns look a richer healthier green.
"Ironically" we can use fiesta in the City of Vancouver, but they have it in their bylaw that iron based moss killers aren't to be used on lawns. (let's see if the bylaw is ammended)
The wholesalers here have "Fiesta" available as a 10 Litre pail. (a litre is almost a quart)
So, that's like 2.5 Imperial gallons. For a cost of $245 Canadian dollars, plus too much tax. It will cover a quarter acre or approximately 10,000 square feet. But remember,
you don't need to cover the entire lawn. You only need to spot spray the weeds.
You must be a governement licensed applicator with a copy of your license on file, to purchase Fiesta. Eco-sense can be picked up by any-body.
Although pesticide use has caused problems to our environment and bodies, when used properly some products worked well. They really saved us time and money.
I had to study my Butt Off to earn all of my licenses and certifications. If Joe Home Owner wasn't able to buy pesticides with no training off the shelf, perhaps we wouldn't have so many restrictions in our industry today.

phasthound
03-13-2011, 06:17 PM
Great post DrNewEarth!
Feed the soil, use cultural methods and keep pesticides off the retail shelf!!

JFGauvreau
03-13-2011, 09:25 PM
My company services stratas (hoa) around Vancouver, British Columbia. Some Cities here have pesticide bylaws and some do not. Many of them are waiting for a Federal Government law that is in the works, that will ban the cosmetic use of pesticides, herbicides etc.
Basically my company uses the non-toxic approach on "all" of our clients properties in the many cities around Vancouver. This includes controlling pests and diseases with IPM-Integrated Pest Management, PHC-plant health care techniques and beneficial insects.
We use a dandelion puller twice a year, aerate, lime, overseed, fertilize three to four times and we allow the lawns to grow 2 to 2.5 inches. That helps to choke out weeds and will give you a stronger healthier lawn. It also conserves water. We mulch the clipping for most of the year. Although when the wild Poa annua grass goes to seed twice a year, we bag it then.
It has been a struggle to educate people, because pesticides have been accepted and used since the end of the First World War. We all need to accept a few weeds.
They are an indicator of site conditions and can tell you what is deficient in your soil.
I've been a government licensed pesticide applicator since back when we used to have to suit up and use some very carcinogenic products. As a last resort we can still use Killex (and glyphosates) as a spot spray in the cities that don't have a pesticide bylaw yet. I do not recommend broadcast spreading weed-killer fertilizers containing 2,4-D, mecoprop and dicamba as that just poisons the entire area and gets into our ground water too. I believe 2,4-D made up part of "agent orange."
In the past few years I have used industrial acedic acid, soaps, propane burners and the like. The weeds come back eventually. If you can, fix the problem that is causing the weeds. Strangely, many Stratas will allow weed control with pesticides, but they won't fork out the money for a nice garden mulch that will help increase property value.
Last year in May the Canadian Federal Government approved the use of "fiesta" type products. Most of the supply ended up going to Ontario.
The H.D. and Canadian Tires were able to get some Eco-sense weed B gone to stores out here, but it went fast. $30-$40 per 4 Litres There is a better supply available for this season.
I used two applications of Eco-sense early last summer. It killed many annual weeds.
The perennials it knocked back a bit, which allows the lawn to grow stronger. Clovers are another kind of problem, particularly if they are established. Get a dandelion puller and aerate too.
The clients of the stratas where Eco-sense was used (Port Moody, Port Coquitlam) were very happy with the results. The iron also makes our lawns look a richer healthier green.
"Ironically" we can use fiesta in the City of Vancouver, but they have it in their bylaw that iron based moss killers aren't to be used on lawns. (let's see if the bylaw is ammended)
The wholesalers here have "Fiesta" available as a 10 Litre pail. (a litre is almost a quart)
So, that's like 2.5 Imperial gallons. For a cost of $245 Canadian dollars, plus too much tax. It will cover a quarter acre or approximately 10,000 square feet. But remember,
you don't need to cover the entire lawn. You only need to spot spray the weeds.
You must be a governement licensed applicator with a copy of your license on file, to purchase Fiesta. Eco-sense can be picked up by any-body.
Although pesticide use has caused problems to our environment and bodies, when used properly some products worked well. They really saved us time and money.
I had to study my Butt Off to earn all of my licenses and certifications. If Joe Home Owner wasn't able to buy pesticides with no training off the shelf, perhaps we wouldn't have so many restrictions in our industry today.

If you know how to maintain a lawn, you know like you said, the basic, keep the grass high enough to choke the weeks, always fertilize, aerate, dethatch, overseed, top dress, water etc, then you won't have a problem with weeds.

The problem is customers not doing what I tell them too lol. They always cut their grass to short, the blade is never sharp enough on their mower, they never water in the drought season. That's why this year I'm writing a little "Maintenance Tips" document that I will giving to all my existing and future customers. If only 1/4 of them actually reads my tips and apply them, then I've done my job.

phasthound
03-13-2011, 10:07 PM
Education clients helps you succeed in your business.
In NJ, Rutgers does provide some good fact sheets on cultural methods for healthy lawns. Applicator businesses should take advantage of info provided by independant sources like this.

http://njaes.rutgers.edu/garden/dead-grass.asp

JFGauvreau
03-13-2011, 10:13 PM
Ya but there's so much you can do, most home owners don't want to sit down and study lawn for weeks. Although you don't really need to, just need to know the basic, most home owners think by cutting their lawn, they did enough. But ya I'm trying my best to educate my customers.

Dr.NewEarth
03-13-2011, 10:47 PM
Are you a member of Landscape Ontario and the CNLA Canadian Nursery Landscape
Association? They hold seminars and send out e-mails and magazines full of helpful
information for their members.
I'm with the BCLNA, ISA and the CNLA. They keep me up to date on the latest insect pests and plant diseases too.
Also, we get discounts on insurance, gas, equipment, work clothing, safety gear and boots, printing and a whole lot more. If you're already involved great. Hopefully this post will get other people and companies interested in joining their associations.
Let's get as many people as we can "Landscape Industry Certified"
Gee, you'd think I was on the education committee of the CNLA or some-thing.

quackgrass
03-15-2011, 02:08 PM
Dr.new Earth, thanks for sharing your experiences. I like the idea of pulling pesticides of the retail shelves. Its a no-brainer that education needs to occur before using products that can effect the environment and health of others.

I get frustrated about the whole situation because I know that pesticides are also extremely valuable to our health and environment. This generation of folks who are calling the shots today live in an easy world compared to those that lived with all the insect borne diseases like the plague, and malaria. We don't remember that before pesticides, insects would often wipe out entire crops and cause millions to die of famine or disease.

Its easy for our generation to be against pesticides in all forms, but the hypocrisy is that most of us wouldn't be here without them!

I'm all for reducing pesticides in the cosmetic department, but at the same time I don't want to promote ignorance by telling people that pesticides are bad. Its only the misapplication of pesticides that are bad. I think some pesticides are actually awesome, and when used properly they allow us to farm less land and keep people healthy.

ICT Bill
03-20-2011, 05:35 PM
here is their brochure I picked up at the New Jersey Show

Barry Draycott is their first distributor in the US
www.techterraorganics.com

JFGauvreau
03-20-2011, 06:21 PM
Are you a member of Landscape Ontario and the CNLA Canadian Nursery Landscape
Association? They hold seminars and send out e-mails and magazines full of helpful
information for their members.
I'm with the BCLNA, ISA and the CNLA. They keep me up to date on the latest insect pests and plant diseases too.
Also, we get discounts on insurance, gas, equipment, work clothing, safety gear and boots, printing and a whole lot more. If you're already involved great. Hopefully this post will get other people and companies interested in joining their associations.
Let's get as many people as we can "Landscape Industry Certified"
Gee, you'd think I was on the education committee of the CNLA or some-thing.

I heard about landscape Ontario, but my company hasn't been running long enough in order to be in that group, maybe in the future!

Mark Long
03-21-2011, 04:37 PM
I was curious re: your comment about not being able to use Fiesta in the fall as I was not quite certain what you meant. The product has shown effectiveness in cooler temperatures. I also had a question about the recommendation for Organasol. Did you meant to imply that it controls weeds that Fiesta does not? Those that I have spoken re: their experience with Fiesta did not mention the use of another material in their broadleaf management programs. Perhaps they are missing a good idea. Re: repeat applications, I think that is understood. Certainly all the efficacy work that was done with FeHEDTA compared to traditional 3 ways, always compared % control of 2 applications of Fiesta to a single one of the traditional materials. The trial data showed, quicker weed response to Fiesta with similar long term results.

HayBay
04-01-2011, 12:52 PM
Its HayBay Mark.

Yes Fiesta only supresses 16 out of say 45 weeds.
Organosol supresses other weeds in the spring at 5 -8 consecutive apps, 2 weeks apart. Then repeat the process for the Fall.
If you apply fiesta in May and again in June (4 weeks later), you have used up the amount of legal apps per year (the label says 2 apps a year). Therefore you cannot apply 2 more apps in the fall.

They are changing the label to 4 apps from what I hear. Even though they have done studies in Ontario (Landscape Ontario, University of Guelph) saying that only 1 application was needed (when the product was first registered). Then the said 2 apps were needed. Now they are saying 4 apps are neeeded.

If you want some true advice you will find out that if you want to supress weeds with FIESTA you will need to spray every 3 weeks for the whole season, to kill Dandelion and a handful of other weeds. You will be living with thisle and many other weeds.
Organosol is another every 2-3 week product and it does not kill thistle either.

4 apps - 8 apps a year of FIESTA a HEAVY METAL (talk about environementally friendly)

Dr New Earth seems to be providing a tad of misinformation. That is not unusual from many Enviro Lawn Care companies that are just starting out. The most important thing before applying Lime is to get a soil sample and see if it is needed. Then try the products for youself before talking like the Neudorff salesman (fiesta manufacturer)
To say that 2,4-D is dangerous and then you go to the fridge and grab a bit to eat, Boggles my mind. Read more than what Misinformed Activists say about legally registered, safe Pesticides.

Nobody uses Fiesta on their food crops. Heck Germany doesnt even use Fiesta on their lawns. But they sell it to us.

If you are forced to use Fiesta (Pesticide Ban) then that is what will sell.

If you can use products like 2,4-D or Imprelis in your community, you won't even look at Fiesta because your competion will have a 99% weed free lawn and only show up 2-3 times a year to CONTROL weeds. You will be showing up every 2-3 weeks to SUPRESS some weeds at an inflated price. The customer is not stupid. He wants bang for his buck.

Stopping 2,4-D treatments on a lawn wont change health or the environment.
I recall reading that FIESTA is banned in Nova Scotia or Halifax already, for safety concerns.

DUSTYCEDAR
04-01-2011, 07:41 PM
i was wishing that it would work better than what is being said it does.

ICT Bill
04-01-2011, 08:50 PM
I spoke to some very reliable folks that tried it last year and said the results were very good to great when mixed with methylated seed oil. I personally have no experience and do not know the mixing ratio

DUSTYCEDAR
04-01-2011, 08:58 PM
oil really?
do you have a oil well bill?

ICT Bill
04-01-2011, 09:09 PM
oil really?
do you have a oil well bill?

you are waaaaaay too funny

RigglePLC
04-01-2011, 09:17 PM
Hopefully, a more realistic political situation will emerge in Canada next year. I am pretty sure that a product like Dupont Imprelis would be a lot safer than Fiesta. According to my calculations, per 1000 sqft, Fiesta has to be used at 218 times the rate of Imprelis.
Imprelis has a very good environmental and safety profile. It won a "Reduced Risk" designation in the US. Good luck to our northern neighbors.

JFGauvreau
04-02-2011, 11:11 AM
Its HayBay Mark.

Yes Fiesta only supresses 16 out of say 45 weeds.
Organosol supresses other weeds in the spring at 5 -8 consecutive apps, 2 weeks apart. Then repeat the process for the Fall.
If you apply fiesta in May and again in June (4 weeks later), you have used up the amount of legal apps per year (the label says 2 apps a year). Therefore you cannot apply 2 more apps in the fall.

They are changing the label to 4 apps from what I hear. Even though they have done studies in Ontario (Landscape Ontario, University of Guelph) saying that only 1 application was needed (when the product was first registered). Then the said 2 apps were needed. Now they are saying 4 apps are neeeded.

If you want some true advice you will find out that if you want to supress weeds with FIESTA you will need to spray every 3 weeks for the whole season, to kill Dandelion and a handful of other weeds. You will be living with thisle and many other weeds.
Organosol is another every 2-3 week product and it does not kill thistle either.

4 apps - 8 apps a year of FIESTA a HEAVY METAL (talk about environementally friendly)

Dr New Earth seems to be providing a tad of misinformation. That is not unusual from many Enviro Lawn Care companies that are just starting out. The most important thing before applying Lime is to get a soil sample and see if it is needed. Then try the products for youself before talking like the Neudorff salesman (fiesta manufacturer)
To say that 2,4-D is dangerous and then you go to the fridge and grab a bit to eat, Boggles my mind. Read more than what Misinformed Activists say about legally registered, safe Pesticides.

Nobody uses Fiesta on their food crops. Heck Germany doesnt even use Fiesta on their lawns. But they sell it to us.

If you are forced to use Fiesta (Pesticide Ban) then that is what will sell.

If you can use products like 2,4-D or Imprelis in your community, you won't even look at Fiesta because your competion will have a 99% weed free lawn and only show up 2-3 times a year to CONTROL weeds. You will be showing up every 2-3 weeks to SUPRESS some weeds at an inflated price. The customer is not stupid. He wants bang for his buck.

Stopping 2,4-D treatments on a lawn wont change health or the environment.
I recall reading that FIESTA is banned in Nova Scotia or Halifax already, for safety concerns.

You can use 2,4-D in Ontario? If so where do you find it? lol

Mark Long
04-13-2011, 07:46 PM
I have also heard that MSO mixed with Fiesta will encrease efficacy of the product. I guess it stands reason that it would since surfactants do that with a number of materials. The weed trials that support the label claims were done at Guelph as well as California. It's simple - you can't claim it on the label if you don't have independent research data to support the claim. They will continue independent testing in the US in 2011 to be able to add weeds to the existing label and to replicate existing claims. Hopefully we will have some folks weigh in that have had positive results with the material. Tech Terra as mentioned earlier does indeed have Fiesta available. Further information is available about the product. You can simply contact me at markbrianlong@engageagro.com

phasthound
04-13-2011, 11:34 PM
I applied Fiesta to dandelions on Mon., by Tues they had shriveled up and turned black and the flowers will not go to seed now. As per the label, another application will be done in 3-4 weeks.

Mark Long
04-14-2011, 12:29 AM
Phasthound - Thanks for the update!