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View Full Version : Anyone have a sign on the rear of their open trailer?


MowingMowingMowing
01-26-2011, 02:43 AM
Just wondering if you do, how it has worked out for you? Pros? Cons? How large of a sign did you get? Do you recall the cost of making it?

I don't see it a whole lot, but was wondering if anybody has any experience with them?

How does it hold up with it being open and closed all day?

If you do have one, feel free to post it on here.

Thanks guys!

Landscape Poet
01-26-2011, 02:51 AM
I have had one for several years now. The size is about the entire width and length of my gate. It is a metal sign that I used self tapping screws to tap into the trailer. In regards to how it has held up, I would say pretty good overall.
Downfalls - it of course causes another point of resistance so expect your fuel mileage to go down.
As far as cost. I think it was roughly $125

MowingMowingMowing
01-26-2011, 04:25 AM
I have had one for several years now. The size is about the entire width and length of my gate. It is a metal sign that I used self tapping screws to tap into the trailer. In regards to how it has held up, I would say pretty good overall.
Downfalls - it of course causes another point of resistance so expect your fuel mileage to go down.
As far as cost. I think it was roughly $125

Does it make it harder to see at all? I'm just envisioning when I look in the mirror while in traffic I can clearly see between the gate now, does having the full sign make it significantly harder to see?

Also, what all did you include on the sign? I was thinking Name of company, phone number, slogan, FULLY INSURED, maybe website, maybe Residential & Commerical... I don't want it to get too cluttered though.

Would you mind posting a pic of how yours is set up?

rreyn1812
01-26-2011, 07:43 AM
Mine is simple. Made of pine board, well primed & painted (black w/ white letters), LAWNCARE & phone # in vinyl letters, 1 yr old and doing well; held on to expanded metal gate (6' x 6') with screws.

Got at least one job from it last year when I got a call in traffic going from one job to the next. Cost < $20.

Same kind of signs on both sides of trailer with a little more information about jobs offered (tree & bush-hog services). Live & work in mostly rural areas though. Have gotten multiple jobs from signs and I'm doing one (leaf & gutter clean-up) today!

Big, fancy signs are great, I guess, if you can afford them and want to go that way, but for me this works!! Simple, clean and straight forward! Good luck with finding what works for you!

bel-nor
01-26-2011, 08:03 AM
I had one composed last year it works great. I used rust free fasteners and positioned it in the center of the gate. I try to leave the gate up when working to take advantage of the advertizing aspect. The sign has been responsible for serveral long term jobs and a few one-timers. I had it designed to resemble my business cards. The price was $131.00 with the layout and design.

BINKY1902
01-26-2011, 08:43 AM
I had one on the back of mine for two years and never got a call from it so I took it off.

MMADDUX
01-26-2011, 10:45 AM
I put a regular yard sign on my trailer. Payed like $13 for it. I got one call the first week i had it on and maybe more but don't know. I think it looks more professional. Also you don't have people asking you stupid questions and wasting your time. They can just get the number and call me. Just my 2 cents

MMADDUX
01-26-2011, 10:49 AM
Sorry.... here is picture but not on the trailer
210364
it is not crooked just the cell phone

Quix
01-26-2011, 11:14 AM
I have a 3' by 4' sign on the back of the gate, cost was about $130 and was the best $130 I ever spent on advertising. I got one customer who saw it which resulted in a $65 weekly plus I also did a $3800 tree job for them. Also the gate is up if parked on the street for additional exposure and to "help" the oncoming cars see my rig better to hopefully avoid an accident. I just cringe with the thought of a car/truck driving up the ramp through my equipment into my truck lol
The sign is very basic, just name and phone #. Whenever I get a call I always ask how they heard of me so I can see whats working.
Dwayne

TNGrassCutter
01-26-2011, 11:18 AM
Most people around here have signs on their gates.
Posted via Mobile Device

Agape
01-26-2011, 11:22 AM
I made the sign about 3' high and the width of my trailer so I could see over it and the resistance wouldnt be much more than the equipment and the tray up front. I drilled holes every inch on a piece of angle iron and then cut out six pieces and welded them to the ramp for brackets. I made the backing myself for ridgidity so the total price was $300. I could get the same thing on aluminum for less than $200. I put the ramp up when working so it is a billboard when people drive by. I kept it simple, cause everyone assumes I do lawn stuff and I don't feel a need for an infinite list. I made it EYE catching and the Phone # readable from over 2 blocks away.

gasracer
01-26-2011, 12:05 PM
I have basic signs on the back of my trailer and I think they work.I am having new ones made this Spring to match my business card.

Chevy z71
02-13-2011, 08:00 PM
post more pictures i might be geting one

FLAhaulboy
02-13-2011, 10:41 PM
All my signs are homemade, Total three signs on each side of trailer and tailgate. I haul away lots of plywood & spray paint. I buy those ( size 4" & 6") card board letters, line em up into a long square board pattern, tape em together, lay em on a precut board & spray paint them. Not actually professional like a pro shop would do them but it works for me!

JayD
02-13-2011, 10:54 PM
I will take some pix of mine in the morning. But, I had mine made at Fast Signs, don't know if you have one or not.
I think it was about 52" wide by 40" high logo, phone #, tag line, and website. They put that on a thick alum sheet. On my trailer gate, I have the one where the vertical rails are made out of angle iron so I install 2x4's on gate first next to vertical rails then I bought a piece of treated plywood, screwed that to the 2x4's, counter sunk the screws some, then screwed the alum sign to the plywood. I had to do it that way because I did not want the wind to catch the alum. It was a job coming up with getting it to work but then again, I always go way overboard with things I build. I will get you some pix.

TopNotchLawnCare
02-13-2011, 11:22 PM
I will take some pix of mine in the morning. But, I had mine made at Fast Signs, don't know if you have one or not.
I think it was about 52" wide by 40" high logo, phone #, tag line, and website. They put that on a thick alum sheet. On my trailer gate, I have the one where the vertical rails are made out of angle iron so I install 2x4's on gate first next to vertical rails then I bought a piece of treated plywood, screwed that to the 2x4's, counter sunk the screws some, then screwed the alum sign to the plywood. I had to do it that way because I did not want the wind to catch the alum. It was a job coming up with getting it to work but then again, I always go way overboard with things I build. I will get you some pix.

If you don't mind me asking, how much did it cost you to have one made at Fast Signs?

JayD
02-13-2011, 11:46 PM
If you don't mind me asking, how much did it cost you to have one made at Fast Signs?

Let me look for paper work, give a few min.

JayD
02-13-2011, 11:55 PM
OK, it was $174.50 and it was 32"x56" on .040 Aluminum from FastSigns.
Now I also had a little money on top of this for the wood, screws. I would say maybe aroun $50 or so, but I did buy treated plywood.

TopNotchLawnCare
02-13-2011, 11:58 PM
OK, it was $174.50 and it was 32"x56" on .040 Aluminum from FastSigns.
Now I also had a little money on top of this for the wood, screws. I would say maybe aroun $50 or so, but I did buy treated plywood.

Thank you.

JayD
02-14-2011, 12:02 AM
Thank you.

Your welcome, check back later in the afternoon and I will go the the shop and take some pix.

Big C
02-14-2011, 01:37 PM
Here's mine...it ran me about $140

JayD
02-14-2011, 01:41 PM
Here's mine...it ran me about $140

Very nice looking trailer!

Top Notch. I will be heading to the shop here shortly to take those pix, I should be back on here in about two hours..

Lefet
02-14-2011, 01:47 PM
Here's mine...it ran me about $140

Do you have any additional pictures of your trailer. I'd like to see the rest of your set up. Thanks

THEGOLDPRO
02-14-2011, 01:57 PM
http://www.mazdas247.com/members/THEGOLDPRO/trailersign1.jpg

Lefet
02-14-2011, 03:14 PM
That's sweet too Goldpro. What's on the left side, blower holders?

THEGOLDPRO
02-14-2011, 04:51 PM
yea those are blowers racks, on the other side i have a 3 place string trimmer rack/ladder rack, and 2 racks for rakes/shovels.

you can kinda see it here.
http://www.southburylandscaping.com/camprig.jpg

JayD
02-14-2011, 04:55 PM
Just wondering if you do, how it has worked out for you? Pros? Cons? How large of a sign did you get? Do you recall the cost of making it?

I don't see it a whole lot, but was wondering if anybody has any experience with them?

How does it hold up with it being open and closed all day?

If you do have one, feel free to post it on here.

Thanks guys!

OK, Let me try this again...

JayD
02-14-2011, 05:11 PM
Do you have any additional pictures of your trailer. I'd like to see the rest of your set up. Thanks

Here are a few more.....I wanted to pull them out and run them for a few min anyway, LOL and got camera happy....I did screw up though, I ment to take some pix of HOW I installed the sign, but if you look at the very first set of pix, I think, you can see a pix of the back side of the sign in the mower pix.

THEGOLDPRO
02-14-2011, 05:16 PM
dang bro your pretty serious about tying down those mowers lol.

JayD
02-14-2011, 05:17 PM
Do you have any additional pictures of your trailer. I'd like to see the rest of your set up. Thanks

Thats strange, my second set did not show up, just the first and third, let me try again.

JayD
02-14-2011, 05:21 PM
Do you have any additional pictures of your trailer. I'd like to see the rest of your set up. Thanks

Oh, and I can't forget my cup holders LOL....

THEGOLDPRO
02-14-2011, 05:22 PM
i have never seen shields on string trimmers like that before, i could never use those they would just be in the way.

JayD
02-14-2011, 05:30 PM
i have never seen shields on string trimmers like that before, i could never use those they would just be in the way.

Gold, are you talking about the top two? If you are, they are the edgit for edging, not a shield for protection. You turn your trimmer on its side and row the disk along the sidewalk edge..You can, and I do use it as a reg trimmer to, meaning I trim with it too.

THEGOLDPRO
02-14-2011, 05:33 PM
oh ok that makes sense. lol

Lefet
02-14-2011, 05:36 PM
Nice set up guys! Gave me a lot of ideas. During this winter doldrum I decided to redo the entire trailer set up. Thanks for the pics!!

TopNotchLawnCare
02-14-2011, 05:55 PM
Wow, nice set-up! And the sign looks great too!

You sure do make everything is secure on your trailer.Thumbs Up

JayD
02-14-2011, 06:06 PM
Wow, nice set-up! And the sign looks great too!

You sure do make everything is secure on your trailer.Thumbs Up

For sure for sure.....Last thing I want is to have something come off and hurt some one. Every one that knows me LOL at me because they say when I build something, it is like a tank LOL... I guess I could be a freak about that stuff...Better to be safe then sorry...

Lefet
02-14-2011, 06:17 PM
JayD, did you modify that Extreme trimmer rack to fit on the OUTSIDE of the trailer rail? Aren't they made to sit on top? I just upgraded to one and am waiting for it to come in.

TNGrassCutter
02-14-2011, 06:22 PM
JayD, did you modify that Extreme trimmer rack to fit on the OUTSIDE of the trailer rail? Aren't they made to sit on top? I just upgraded to one and am waiting for it to come in.

Those brackets come with the racks to mount to the inside of an enclosed trailer i believe. I bought the extensions to go with mine and the racks bolt to the top of the extensions. But just the racks can be bolted to the top of the rail or to the side.

Chevy z71
02-14-2011, 06:23 PM
Thanks for all the help

Lefet
02-14-2011, 06:31 PM
Those brackets come with the racks to mount to the inside of an enclosed trailer i believe. I bought the extensions to go with mine and the racks bolt to the top of the extensions. But just the racks can be bolted to the top of the rail or to the side.

Thanks, I can't wait to get mine. I made a tool holder across the front and put new signs on the sides. Geez I wish spring would come on! Also finally getting blower holders. Tired of having them sliding around the floor of the trailer. Actually left one sitting on the fender one day, fell off, then ran over it. But it's a Redmax, like a Timex, kept on keeping on!

JayD
02-14-2011, 10:06 PM
JayD, did you modify that Extreme trimmer rack to fit on the OUTSIDE of the trailer rail? Aren't they made to sit on top? I just upgraded to one and am waiting for it to come in.

Not really, the only thing I did different was drill and tap my holes. It looked like it was to be mounted on a angle iron type rail and mine is tube rail. Thats pretty much all I did and it was really just to the trailer not their parts.

I do remember drilling out their holes on the brackets a little bigger because their brackets are thick and it was hard getting a marker through the holes to mark where I had to drill and tap my holes. By oversizing their holes a little, it gave me a little wiggle room because if you are not on the money when you drill, you will have a hard time getting your bolts to screw in.

You will love that trimmer rack!

JayD
02-14-2011, 10:57 PM
Just wondering if you do, how it has worked out for you? Pros? Cons? How large of a sign did you get? Do you recall the cost of making it?

I don't see it a whole lot, but was wondering if anybody has any experience with them?

How does it hold up with it being open and closed all day?

If you do have one, feel free to post it on here.

Thanks guys!

I forgot to say that you should try to install it as low as you can to hep with the wind drag.

I also found that because I installed it like a fort, it made my gate pretty heavy so I got a gate assist to help with lifting.:weightlifter:

You may have noticed in all the pix I plastered on your thread LOL, sorry about that...

JayD
02-15-2011, 07:59 AM
Do you have any additional pictures of your trailer. I'd like to see the rest of your set up. Thanks

My next prodject for the trailer will be comming up with something to hold my grass catcher that I will be getting in a few weeks. No room on the trailer for it to ride on the mower so I need to come with some way to hang it, lock it.

JayD
02-15-2011, 01:25 PM
Just wondering if you do, how it has worked out for you? Pros? Cons? How large of a sign did you get? Do you recall the cost of making it?

I don't see it a whole lot, but was wondering if anybody has any experience with them?

How does it hold up with it being open and closed all day?

If you do have one, feel free to post it on here.

Thanks guys!

Come on guys, show us your signs on your trailer...

aarons lawn
02-15-2011, 03:54 PM
put your number on your truck how many people do you actually get a season from just being parked or going down the road your always drivin your truck and dont always have your trailer with ya plus when u see a babe you can try and get her to call the number on the back of your truck

JayD
02-15-2011, 03:56 PM
put your number on your truck how many people do you actually get a season from just being parked or going down the road your always drivin your truck and dont always have your trailer with ya plus when u see a babe you can try and get her to call the number on the back of your truck

Yeah, that too....

Big C
02-15-2011, 04:05 PM
Do you have any additional pictures of your trailer. I'd like to see the rest of your set up. Thanks

Here's one more

JayD
02-15-2011, 04:28 PM
Here's one more

I like that trailer clark, I wish I had that cage on the front of mine.

Lefet
02-15-2011, 05:39 PM
yea those are blowers racks, on the other side i have a 3 place string trimmer rack/ladder rack, and 2 racks for rakes/shovels.

you can kinda see it here.
http://www.southburylandscaping.com/camprig.jpg

Where did you get your blower holders?

John deer Z
02-15-2011, 06:13 PM
here is mine

LiveGreenLawn
02-15-2011, 06:39 PM
Posted via Mobile Device

THEGOLDPRO
02-15-2011, 08:06 PM
Where did you get your blower holders?

i got 2 leaf blower racks,2 hand tool racks, and the trimmer rack from here.
http://www.trailerracks.com/racks.html

Lefet
02-15-2011, 08:10 PM
i got 2 leaf blower racks,2 hand tool racks, and the trimmer rack from here.
http://www.trailerracks.com/racks.html

That's what I figured. I ordered a trimmer rack from there but the blower rack from commercialdirect.net.
Problem is, they called me today to say it was on backorder until March 1st. Kind of annoyed me since they already charged my credit card a few days ago. Unfortunately, the ONE from trailerracks is about $30.00 less than the two blower holder from them.
Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

JayD
02-16-2011, 02:10 PM
Just wondering if you do, how it has worked out for you? Pros? Cons? How large of a sign did you get? Do you recall the cost of making it?

I don't see it a whole lot, but was wondering if anybody has any experience with them?

How does it hold up with it being open and closed all day?

If you do have one, feel free to post it on here.

Thanks guys!

Where are all the pix guys?

Chevy z71
02-16-2011, 03:32 PM
i got 2 leaf blower racks,2 hand tool racks, and the trimmer rack from here.
http://www.trailerracks.com/racks.html

Just order a blow rack and a 2 person weedeatter rack.

JayD
02-16-2011, 04:07 PM
Just order a blow rack and a 2 person weedeatter rack.

What is a 2 person weedeatter rack?

Chevy z71
02-16-2011, 08:14 PM
What is a 2 person weedeatter rack?

Holds 2 weedeatters lol.

JayD
02-16-2011, 09:06 PM
Holds 2 weedeatters lol.

LOL, thought thats what you were talking about....I got a 4 person weedeatter rack then...

Agape
02-16-2011, 09:20 PM
I'm trying to get to a point where I have only 1 person operating a string trimmer at a time.:laugh:

JayD
02-16-2011, 09:28 PM
I'm trying to get to a point where I have only 1 person operating a string trimmer at a time.:laugh:

If you have a 4 person rack, you can just have 4 people trim the hole yard and you wont even have to get the mower off...:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Agape
02-16-2011, 11:09 PM
I could call it "we only string trim" lawns and edging.
"thank you for calling, what can I string trim for you?"

Do you remove small trees?

"Yes, It'll be $10,000 because of the time involved to do it with a string trimmer!"

Thank you, tell a freind...

Agape
02-16-2011, 11:12 PM
If you have a 4 person rack, you can just have 4 people trim the hole yard and you wont even have to get the mower off...:laugh::laugh::laugh:

I might get pulled over if I have 4 people in a rack on my trailer.

JayD
02-17-2011, 08:11 PM
I have had one for several years now. The size is about the entire width and length of my gate. It is a metal sign that I used self tapping screws to tap into the trailer. In regards to how it has held up, I would say pretty good overall.
Downfalls - it of course causes another point of resistance so expect your fuel mileage to go down.
As far as cost. I think it was roughly $125

I installed mine a little lower for that reason. I am sure that it catches some air but I think the mowers kind of break it up some. I do think I can feel it a little though.

Lefet
02-17-2011, 08:14 PM
What type of metal do you suggest?

JayD
02-17-2011, 08:24 PM
What type of metal do you suggest?

If your talking to me, mine was alum. The sign puts my logo on vinyl then onto the alum.

Lefet
02-17-2011, 08:47 PM
If your talking to me, mine was alum. The sign puts my logo on vinyl then onto the alum.

Thanks! I figure the aluminum would be lighter.

JayD
02-17-2011, 08:58 PM
Thanks! I figure the aluminum would be lighter.

Not only that, it will not RUST!

JayD
02-20-2011, 07:48 AM
I made the sign about 3' high and the width of my trailer so I could see over it and the resistance wouldnt be much more than the equipment and the tray up front. I drilled holes every inch on a piece of angle iron and then cut out six pieces and welded them to the ramp for brackets. I made the backing myself for ridgidity so the total price was $300. I could get the same thing on aluminum for less than $200. I put the ramp up when working so it is a billboard when people drive by. I kept it simple, cause everyone assumes I do lawn stuff and I don't feel a need for an infinite list. I made it EYE catching and the Phone # readable from over 2 blocks away.

Yes, your sign does have a nice eye catching look to it.

So did you make that out of metal or what is it on?

Chevy z71
02-21-2011, 07:28 PM
Do you know a good size sign for a 5*10.

JayD
02-21-2011, 07:42 PM
Do you know a good size sign for a 5*10.

The one I have on this tread in the pix was on my 5x10 before I got that trailer and it fit OK. You will have to go back and read my post on here, I gave the size but don't remember it now. It really depends on how your gate is made and how you want to put it on, but as long as you are handy and creative, it should not matter to much.
I would not make it to cover the whole gate though, the drag from the wind will kill your gas mileage.

Lurch01
02-21-2011, 08:07 PM
If I can have a large sign up I will. A tail will give me 3x 5 that is good visibilty. I do not put those magnetic signs on the door. It is not professional looking.

Both of my trucks and my trailer are wrapped or have signs. I can not state this enough, The signs must be large enough to read at a distance. Not one car away.

Chevy z71
02-21-2011, 08:11 PM
The one I have on this tread in the pix was on my 5x10 before I got that trailer and it fit OK. You will have to go back and read my post on here, I gave the size but don't remember it now. It really depends on how your gate is made and how you want to put it on, but as long as you are handy and creative, it should not matter to much.
I would not make it to cover the whole gate though, the drag from the wind will kill your gas mileage.

I was thinking 2*3 or 3*2.

JayD
02-21-2011, 08:13 PM
If I can have a large sign up I will. A tail will give me 3x 5 that is good visibilty. I do not put those magnetic signs on the door. It is not professional looking.

Both of my trucks and my trailer are wrapped or have signs. I can not state this enough, The signs must be large enough to read at a distance. Not one car away.

Yes, I agree.....

JayD
02-21-2011, 08:17 PM
I was thinking 2*3 or 3*2.

I guess I should have added that your logo and what ever inf you want on it would make a difference too. You don't want to put to much on it, that will just make it to hard to read. Short and to the point so to speak.

Logo
phone #
web site if you have one
and not much more then that. IMO of course...

Wayne's Lawn Service
02-21-2011, 08:30 PM
Does it make it harder to see at all? I'm just envisioning when I look in the mirror while in traffic I can clearly see between the gate now, does having the full sign make it significantly harder to see?

Also, what all did you include on the sign? I was thinking Name of company, phone number, slogan, FULLY INSURED, maybe website, maybe Residential & Commerical... I don't want it to get too cluttered though.

Would you mind posting a pic of how yours is set up?

How much is fully insured?????????

Check with your attorney before posting something like that on anything you own. It's like putting a target on your back that says sue me!

How much is enough? About 20 plus years ago we were going to put that on an ad and our attorney asked me why were putting that on the ad. I said I want people to know we have insurance. He said how much is enough? I said, I don't know you are the attorney you tell me? He said, imagine one of your trucks going through a red light and hitting a car with five pregnant women in it and they all die. Now you have ten dead people. Now do you have enough?

His point was well taken that there is always an instance that questions what's enough. Put insured on things if anything at all. If you look professional, it will be assumed that you are insured and if they hire you, you can get them a certificate.

Just my .02 worth.

Chevy z71
02-22-2011, 08:02 AM
I got one drew up just need to go to the sign place when i get time cause there only open during the week.

JayD
02-22-2011, 08:03 AM
I got one drew up just need to go to the sign place when i get time cause there only open during the week.

You will have to post your proofs so we can see..

Lefet
03-13-2011, 01:10 PM
We finally got the sign for the back of the trailer finished, thanks for all the help and suggestions!!

JayD
03-13-2011, 01:55 PM
We finally got the sign for the back of the trailer finished, thanks for all the help and suggestions!!

Looks nice!

Lefet
03-13-2011, 02:25 PM
Looks nice!

Thanks JayD, appreciate all your help!

MowingMowingMowing
03-26-2011, 01:51 AM
I really haven't been keeping up with this thread... I got a question though.... I have an open trailer and the only place I can put the sign is on the rear, some have mentioned it being bad on mileage, is it really that bad? I don't drive a ton so I really don't think it will account for much, just curious as to what people have experienced.

StihlMechanic
03-26-2011, 02:43 AM
http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr35/nortexwholesale/Mobile%20Uploads/Photo179.jpg

indy2tall
03-26-2011, 05:38 AM
I could call it "we only string trim" lawns and edging.
"thank you for calling, what can I string trim for you?"

Do you remove small trees?

"Yes, It'll be $10,000 because of the time involved to do it with a string trimmer!"

Thank you, tell a freind...

I might get pulled over if I have 4 people in a rack on my trailer.

Those are two of the funniest comments that I have seen on here in a while...:laugh::laugh::laugh:

JayD is spot on about over building anything on your trailer because if any equipment comes off during an accident (or worse yet just driving down the road) and hits a bystander your business is usually history along with all your hard earned personal assets. (unless your a Corp or a LLC)

JayD
03-26-2011, 10:06 AM
I really haven't been keeping up with this thread... I got a question though.... I have an open trailer and the only place I can put the sign is on the rear, some have mentioned it being bad on mileage, is it really that bad? I don't drive a ton so I really don't think it will account for much, just curious as to what people have experienced.

I can feel a little difference with mine, but mine is a is some what big. But I don't think it will make that much difference.

Chevy z71
03-26-2011, 11:55 PM
http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr35/nortexwholesale/Mobile%20Uploads/Photo179.jpg

Paid 50$ for my 2*3.

shane772
05-04-2011, 10:21 PM
http://i467.photobucket.com/albums/rr35/nortexwholesale/Mobile%20Uploads/Photo179.jpg

Where are you guys getting these made?

Glenn Lawn Care
05-04-2011, 10:30 PM
I have a few yards signs made a few years ago and decieded to zip tie one to the gate of my trailer... it lasted for a while until the wind ripped the sign where the zip tie holes were.