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View Full Version : Exmark, Hustler and Scag the "Worldlawnmowers"are coming


HenryB
01-27-2011, 06:38 PM
Dealer is quoting me $10-$14,000 for some ZTR's. I laughed hard and long. He called up about a great deal if I buy early; $14k for a gas ZTR. There is a guy selling Worldlawnmowers ZTR's for $5k w/a 27 Kawy. Hydrogear pumps etc. I doubt I'll buy one but what a price difference. If I buy two he can do a lot better.
The reality is Commercial mowers especially ZTR's are extremely overpriced. At 8,10,12 and $14000 they are asking for this. Hence why Bobcat Exmark Hustler etc are making lower priced commercial ZTR's. Wether the chinese,americans or japanese it's irrellevent we are going to see competition. With bloated pricing and big profits I would not be surprised to see Ford ,GMC and Dodge making ZTR's. Why not the ZTR's are priced more than some of their cars with no airbags, computers etc we might just see it.

SouthSide Cutter
01-27-2011, 07:06 PM
You get what you pay for!!!!!

twcw5804
01-27-2011, 07:15 PM
Not measuring up apples for apples. There is no way you are buying a 52'' exmark for $14k. My dealer with bid assist on a 60'' exmark for the 29hp kawi was $8800. The 27hp Kohler had an insane price on it that was a last years left over but seemed to me it was well below $8k. So really a 52'' is maybe $3k difference at the most and you have to figure what kind of dealer support your going to get frome exmark over world lawn. I would buy a world lawn for their 36'' because it wouldn't be my main mower.

Just like I looked at big dog mowers near me recently. It was in a go kart shop and they had it in the back room that wasn't even lighted. I'm thinking how are these guys going to take care of me? Mowers really aren't their thing.

Roger
01-27-2011, 08:22 PM
....With bloated pricing and big profits I would not be surprised to see Ford ,GMC and Dodge making ZTR's.....

Can you provide us the details on the big profits? Curious minds want to know.

XLS
01-27-2011, 08:36 PM
I must say after a year of running a 52'' WL walk it was hands down the fastest retun on investment in all of our purchases in 12 years of business . we ran it for 1400 hours this year and besides blades and belts and oil changes it had NO cost of opperation then this year we seen Havener 48'' hydro walks with sulkies ( their version of the stand on units) for $3000 we will be using them from here on out for our low return locations.

djagusch
01-27-2011, 09:11 PM
Dealer is quoting me $10-$14,000 for some ZTR's. I laughed hard and long. He called up about a great deal if I buy early; $14k for a gas ZTR. There is a guy selling Worldlawnmowers ZTR's for $5k w/a 27 Kawy. Hydrogear pumps etc. I doubt I'll buy one but what a price difference. If I buy two he can do a lot better.
The reality is Commercial mowers especially ZTR's are extremely overpriced. At 8,10,12 and $14000 they are asking for this. Hence why Bobcat Exmark Hustler etc are making lower priced commercial ZTR's. Wether the chinese,americans or japanese it's irrellevent we are going to see competition. With bloated pricing and big profits I would not be surprised to see Ford ,GMC and Dodge making ZTR's. Why not the ZTR's are priced more than some of their cars with no airbags, computers etc we might just see it.

3very so often you make a post similar to this one. It always is way over blown. I'm guessing the dealers quote you high because you are in there so often dreaming of a mower to buy. The fact is that you can buy a exmark/scag/ hustler 60" mower of $10k if you talk to the right people. Everyday all day long you can.

In your mind a wl mower on the same level of the other mowers mentioned? How do warranties compare? Any aftermarket parts? Are they a real dealer, trained, with good support?

How do you know scag has high profits? I would like to see a printed source.
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BINKY1902
01-27-2011, 09:18 PM
I must say after a year of running a 52'' WL walk it was hands down the fastest retun on investment in all of our purchases in 12 years of business . we ran it for 1400 hours this year and besides blades and belts and oil changes it had NO cost of opperation then this year we seen Havener 48'' hydro walks with sulkies ( their version of the stand on units) for $3000 we will be using them from here on out for our low return locations.


I've made some money with my Bradley/Havener walk behind for sure, they are actually solid. I will probably always have a Gravely as my main mower, but I have no problem having a Bradley as my backup/hills mower.

HenryB
01-27-2011, 09:30 PM
3very so often you make a post similar to this one. It always is way over blown. I'm guessing the dealers quote you high because you are in there so often dreaming of a mower to buy. The fact is that you can buy a exmark/scag/ hustler 60" mower of $10k if you talk to the right people. Everyday all day long you can.

In your mind a wl mower on the same level of the other mowers mentioned? How do warranties compare? Any aftermarket parts? Are they a real dealer, trained, with good support?

How do you know scag has high profits? I would like to see a printed source.
Posted via Mobile Device

I flip ZTR's every 2 yrs. I spend money so they know I'm serious. Yes I can get a gas ZTR for as low as $9900 but My point is that is ubsurd add fuel injection or diesel and costs jump quick, catcher system another $3k. I buy 60 inchers so I'm not talking about 48's. In my mind I don't know the quality level of World lawnmowers;niether do you. I've had Scags and Hustlers that killed me in downtime and breakdownsi n the first 100hrs. Every brand has lemons. This "You get what you pay for" is a slogan nothing more.They told me that in 1995 when I bought a fleet of Exmarks. My dealer shook his head and called them "Flexmark" And how there no Scag or Bobcat. I've owned a lot of ZTR's and dealer support is most important around here dealer support is so so at best. So I hate paying a lot to not have good support. For a great dealer I'd pay more. As for as the "Printed" profits of Scag I'll fax em to you. Use your brain add the components seperately and some of these #'s are just crazy.
On a side note I think 2 cycle stuff is a great deal especially backpacks. Even under priced that is why I buy new two cycles every year.

GreenEarthLawnCare
01-27-2011, 09:35 PM
i checked out the world lawnmowers web site.. and the sure look like a mower worth 5grand haha i dont think id trade and exmark or a scag for one of those

twcw5804
01-27-2011, 10:53 PM
Yeah I'm not down for that ZTR but the walkbehinds are decent price and look good. I always have bought used 36'' exmarks for about $1000 and use them for 2yrs and then sell them for within $100 of what I bought it for. I maybe in the market for a 36'' again this year and I like the look of these WB. I especially like the mulch on demand like feature.

SouthSide Cutter
01-28-2011, 08:35 AM
If they killed you in the first 100hrs you must have run them off a cliff! And quality does cost, you get what you pay for.

SouthSide Cutter
01-28-2011, 08:37 AM
And one other thing go buy them. Run them two years and let me know if you got a bargain.

MOturkey
01-28-2011, 08:53 AM
I'm afraid I just don't get all the reasoning behind cheaper mowers. Sure, I understand the value of a dollar, but in my opinion, if you are running an actual business, showing a reasonable profit margin, three or four thousand dollars depreciated over the life of a machine, just isn't that much money.

Mowers are one of the few manufactured consumer items we can still buy that are actually built in the US, and I'll continue to buy American made as long as a company makes them here.

MOHUSTLER
01-28-2011, 08:58 AM
Us VS. China. Not apples to apples comparason at all. Mabe apples to old rotten apples.

And dont think that some of the major brands arent looking to start sending thier small stuff to china as well.

I live 30 miles from the kawasaki plant in Maryville MO, They are sending all thier small kawi engines to china, Along with all the ATV engines and ATV assembly. So wonderful to see someting of good quality send to china:hammerhead:

djagusch
01-28-2011, 09:04 AM
I flip ZTR's every 2 yrs. I spend money so they know I'm serious. Yes I can get a gas ZTR for as low as $9900 but My point is that is ubsurd add fuel injection or diesel and costs jump quick, catcher system another $3k. I buy 60 inchers so I'm not talking about 48's. In my mind I don't know the quality level of World lawnmowers;niether do you. I've had Scags and Hustlers that killed me in downtime and breakdownsi n the first 100hrs. Every brand has lemons. This "You get what you pay for" is a slogan nothing more.They told me that in 1995 when I bought a fleet of Exmarks. My dealer shook his head and called them "Flexmark" And how there no Scag or Bobcat. I've owned a lot of ZTR's and dealer support is most important around here dealer support is so so at best. So I hate paying a lot to not have good support. For a great dealer I'd pay more. As for as the "Printed" profits of Scag I'll fax em to you. Use your brain add the components seperately and some of these #'s are just crazy.
On a side note I think 2 cycle stuff is a great deal especially backpacks. Even under priced that is why I buy new two cycles every year.

So let's add the components we spend on a $40 yard. About $3 in gas and string for that half hr. Put blinders our transportation, investment in equipment, labor, and overhead. We should racking in huge profits shouldn't we?

The mower costs more than its components unless you think r&d costs nothing. Laser cutter, robotic welders, packaging, marketing, transportation are a few things your over looking.
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MOHUSTLER
01-28-2011, 09:45 AM
So let's add the components we spend on a $40 yard. About $3 in gas and string for that half hr. Put blinders our transportation, investment in equipment, labor, and overhead. We should racking in huge profits shouldn't we?

The mower costs more than its components unless you think r&d costs nothing. Laser cutter, robotic welders, packaging, marketing, transportation are a few things your over looking.
Posted via Mobile Device

This hit the nail on the head, Take a world lawn company who buys all thier parts from someone else, assembles the mower in house and ships it out.

Now take a company like scag, Builds 90% of the parts on the mower in house, paints and powdercoat in house, assembles in house, and handles all warranty claims in house.

They have almost 100% controle over the mower and can adress issues before they send out 100,000 mowers into the field.

When we were at hustlers factory, they have 4 lazer cutters at 4 mill a peice.

nolanjim
01-28-2011, 10:50 AM
I've tried world mowers before as well as the cheaper and less known brands. Frame wise they are not as well made but the engine and other components are top notch. You should be familiar with the handling of ztrs and walk behinds before you use one because the steel is usually not as thick and will dent easier. Besides that I would not hesitate to use one. Less overhead and faster return on investment. With good maintenance and care it should last as long and any mower, assuming the major components are commercial.

HenryB
01-28-2011, 11:45 AM
Can you provide us the details on the big profits? Curious minds want to know.

Roger your request is pointless. I'll call Scag and demand their Financial Statements. You have over 4000 posts your not 11 yrs old. This is a dumb request. This is a forumn we all give our opinions that is mine. Their picing is too high and bloated IMO.
As far as research and design there not state of the art and what technology; hydro pumps and wheel motors? A mowing deck? Suspention seat. These weren't invented by current manufacturers.
Last time I checked Scag Hustler Toro and Exmark were not manufacturing hydro pumps.engines,belts,clutches,tires,bearings,seats,switches wires etc. Not so different from World lawn mowers.
IMO LT Rich and the Wright co are both very innovative. It's innovative small startups that force big bloated dinosaour co's to keep improving. I think the OCD on the Worldlawnmower is very clever.ZTR's have not changed much in 15yrs. Bigger engines? Not very impressive.
I'm different than many on here because I hold my standard a bit higher;example people complained on here about Hustlers problems wheel motors, exhaust burning turf, lack of torque in their drive system and they responded with a new Super Z that looks amazing. If they are not questioned and held to a higher standard there is no reason to improve.

LCPullman
01-28-2011, 09:13 PM
You have over 4000 posts your not 11 yrs old.
Any chance you want to clarify that? By that reckoning he joined lawn-site before he was born:jester:

On a more serious note, Alot of people will discount companies like world lawn because they are a Chinese company; and Chinese products in general have the stereotype of being inexpensive and poor quality. If they want to overcome it, they will have to build an excellent product with excellent reliability, and they'll have to do it for the long run.
Right now they are a little low on features and as someone else mentioned, the frames aren't built as tough (at least the ones I've seen) The only way they are really competitive is with price.
Features: No hydro walk, small drive and caster tires. Some of them at least seem borderline on engine size, walk-behinds are to slow.

twcw5804
01-29-2011, 12:17 AM
I will point out to the OP and the 2 other guys that posted on worldlawn in the last 24 hours to us the search tool. Turns out someone on here already bought one and it had to be serviced in first week for a handle coming off and blowing blue smoke. I would be curious to here from that guy now what he thinks. I said I would be in on one of these but I think I will wait for more people to buy them.
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elitefox
01-29-2011, 06:58 AM
You get what you pay for!!!!!

All the way down from gas to toilet paper.. A mower is no different


And one other thing go buy them. Run them two years and let me know if you got a bargain.

Ha ha YES!!!! Just cause you save money on total cost initially, doesn't mean the 15 belts, 2 spindles, 2 drive pumps, clutch, and the 20hrs a month labor in WASTED DOWNTIME is a smarter investment...

johnnybravo8802
01-29-2011, 10:16 AM
I flip ZTR's every 2 yrs. I spend money so they know I'm serious. Yes I can get a gas ZTR for as low as $9900 but My point is that is ubsurd add fuel injection or diesel and costs jump quick, catcher system another $3k. I buy 60 inchers so I'm not talking about 48's. In my mind I don't know the quality level of World lawnmowers;niether do you. I've had Scags and Hustlers that killed me in downtime and breakdownsi n the first 100hrs. Every brand has lemons. This "You get what you pay for" is a slogan nothing more.They told me that in 1995 when I bought a fleet of Exmarks. My dealer shook his head and called them "Flexmark" And how there no Scag or Bobcat. I've owned a lot of ZTR's and dealer support is most important around here dealer support is so so at best. So I hate paying a lot to not have good support. For a great dealer I'd pay more. As for as the "Printed" profits of Scag I'll fax em to you. Use your brain add the components seperately and some of these #'s are just crazy.
On a side note I think 2 cycle stuff is a great deal especially backpacks. Even under priced that is why I buy new two cycles every year.
This is the kind of thing I don't understand!!:confused:People get on here all the time and talk about buying equipment, trucks, etc. every 2-3 yrs. How in the he#@ do you afford that in an industry where we're doing business at 1980's prices? You add in rising fuel prices, insurance, rising shop fees, things breaking more often, etc. I have to run a mower until it wears out...how do you make any money otherwise? I've been running Stihl since 86' and they're making this crap like it's disposable. I hear people say they scrap accessory equipment every 1-2 yrs. Yea, I'll do that too if I can start charging $60/hr.!!!!!! However, I live in the real world and make grass shorter for a living in a world where the economy is in the drink and people aren't willing to pay much for this service. I think there's a lot of BS that flies on this site or a lot of people who don't know their costs.

grassman177
01-29-2011, 10:19 AM
guys , the truth of the matter is this............ looks are decieving. they are as cheap as all the walmart crap mad ein china. cheap low quality steel, knock off design.

the worst part is you are so willing to send more money to china. get some balls and buy american. you can get good pricing on american goods, you have to have a good dealer and dealing skills. wenever pay as much as some of you guys claim you have to.

johnnybravo8802
01-29-2011, 10:21 AM
I flip ZTR's every 2 yrs. I spend money so they know I'm serious. Yes I can get a gas ZTR for as low as $9900 but My point is that is ubsurd add fuel injection or diesel and costs jump quick, catcher system another $3k. I buy 60 inchers so I'm not talking about 48's. In my mind I don't know the quality level of World lawnmowers;niether do you. I've had Scags and Hustlers that killed me in downtime and breakdownsi n the first 100hrs. Every brand has lemons. This "You get what you pay for" is a slogan nothing more.They told me that in 1995 when I bought a fleet of Exmarks. My dealer shook his head and called them "Flexmark" And how there no Scag or Bobcat. I've owned a lot of ZTR's and dealer support is most important around here dealer support is so so at best. So I hate paying a lot to not have good support. For a great dealer I'd pay more. As for as the "Printed" profits of Scag I'll fax em to you. Use your brain add the components seperately and some of these #'s are just crazy.
On a side note I think 2 cycle stuff is a great deal especially backpacks. Even under priced that is why I buy new two cycles every year.
This is the kind of thing I don't understand!!:confused:People get on here all the time and talk about buying equipment, trucks, etc. every 2-3 yrs. How in the he#@ do you afford that in an industry where we're doing business at 1980's prices? You add in rising fuel prices, insurance, rising shop fees, things breaking more often, etc. I have to run a mower until it wears out...how do you make any money otherwise? I've been running Stihl since 86' and they're making this crap like it's disposable. I hear people say they scrap accessory equipment every 1-2 yrs. Yea, I'll do that too if I can start charging $60/hr.!!!!!! However, I live in the real world and make grass shorter for a living in a world where the economy is in the drink and people aren't willing to pay much for this service. I think there's a lot of BS that flies on this site or a lot of people who don't know their costs.

grassman177
01-29-2011, 10:27 AM
although most of what you said is true johnnybravo, we get new machines every 2 years on rotation, which means there is something new every year.

it is not hard to do, and we get more per hour than $60 for our services.

TYCINC
01-29-2011, 10:40 AM
Most the people are full of crap. . and idk when all of the sudden machines are costing $12k and up. . quality commercial equipment been expensive for awhile a now

944own
01-29-2011, 10:54 AM
How much is that rider on the website, it looks like a exmark copy.

grassman177
01-29-2011, 01:33 PM
they are like 5K. they are a copy too, china is super known to do this as they actually have less engineering skill on original products than we do. but , they are excelllent at reverse engineering.

HenryB
01-29-2011, 03:38 PM
This is the kind of thing I don't understand!!:confused:People get on here all the time and talk about buying equipment, trucks, etc. every 2-3 yrs. How in the he#@ do you afford that in an industry where we're doing business at 1980's prices? You add in rising fuel prices, insurance, rising shop fees, things breaking more often, etc. I have to run a mower until it wears out...how do you make any money otherwise? I've been running Stihl since 86' and they're making this crap like it's disposable. I hear people say they scrap accessory equipment every 1-2 yrs. Yea, I'll do that too if I can start charging $60/hr.!!!!!! However, I live in the real world and make grass shorter for a living in a world where the economy is in the drink and people aren't willing to pay much for this service. I think there's a lot of BS that flies on this site or a lot of people who don't know their costs.
Your right about so many things. For me just mowing is not very profitable. My accounts are full service so I do everything the other stuff makes me money but I still need machines to mow. Local service (repair shops) are horrible around here so I turn stuff over.
Unless you start a war with dealers nothing is warrantied. Everything has a story of why it's not covered. I had a Honda 13hp on a blower blow a head gasket after two hrs my dealer said Honda won't cover they say it's abuse Wanted $150. They cover eventually but you have to battle

944own
01-29-2011, 03:48 PM
they are like 5K. they are a copy too, china is super known to do this as they actually have less engineering skill on original products than we do. but , they are excelllent at reverse engineering.
I would like to see a review looks pretty sweet maybe good for backup
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jaybow
01-29-2011, 04:35 PM
This is the kind of thing I don't understand!!:confused:People get on here all the time and talk about buying equipment, trucks, etc. every 2-3 yrs. How in the he#@ do you afford that in an industry where we're doing business at 1980's prices? You add in rising fuel prices, insurance, rising shop fees, things breaking more often, etc. I have to run a mower until it wears out...how do you make any money otherwise? I've been running Stihl since 86' and they're making this crap like it's disposable. I hear people say they scrap accessory equipment every 1-2 yrs. Yea, I'll do that too if I can start charging $60/hr.!!!!!! However, I live in the real world and make grass shorter for a living in a world where the economy is in the drink and people aren't willing to pay much for this service. I think there's a lot of BS that flies on this site or a lot of people who don't know their costs.

I agree totaly.

jaybow
01-29-2011, 04:43 PM
I would like to see a review looks pretty sweet maybe good for backup
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I dont think I would bother with these mowers. Anything I have ever tried to go the cheaper rout on has backfired. There is always something that breaks all the time or doesnt work properly on cheaper equipment. Always something to cost you more money or slow down your effiiciency. Im done with Chinas junk, scam artists. Its not just them though, you have to watch everything you buy these days.

grassman177
01-29-2011, 05:05 PM
I dont think I would bother with these mowers. Anything I have ever tried to go the cheaper rout on has backfired. There is always something that breaks all the time or doesnt work properly on cheaper equipment. Always something to cost you more money or slow down your effiiciency. Im done with Chinas junk, scam artists. Its not just them though, you have to watch everything you buy these days.

amen, one big point of view we share. i am all for quality equipment, where ever it comes from, but american first if i can. i mean, we use kubotas so it is not always american.

i bet they are fine for newcomers, homeowners and cheapo lcos. but i would rather have a well engineered american hoss of a sweet butt mower.

jaybow
01-29-2011, 05:15 PM
A person would be better to buy a used Exmark, Scag, Dixie Chopper or any other american commercial mower.And the used machine would probably outlast one of these world mowers. I have a grudge about this china crap now. I have been investing a little money into buying old silver dollars and come to find out the chinese have been replicating them right down to the exact weight in grams made out f some cheap alloy metal. You cannot tell the difference. They have robbed this country blind, and our own government is in on the robbery also.
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Thunderhead
01-29-2011, 05:53 PM
I avoid Chinese products every chance I get...
NO WAY IN HELL would I buy a Chinese lawnmower.

Buy a good used well known USA brand.