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Plantculture
01-28-2011, 01:30 PM
Does anyone know the shade tolerance of Captiva St. Augustine vs Seville?

Ric
01-28-2011, 04:40 PM
Does anyone know the shade tolerance of Captiva St. Augustine vs Seville?

Plant

I don't know about Captiva but I have found Seville to be very shade tolerance. I believe Seville can be found on the East Coast of Florida more than the Gulf Coast. Sod Grower in my region don't grow Seville any more.

Landscape Poet
01-28-2011, 06:32 PM
Does anyone know the shade tolerance of Captiva St. Augustine vs Seville?

There is a thread by someone on here, but I think it is in the land maint forum where a guy from forum used it on a hoa (I think) - it is a green something or other that posted on it. I do not have time right now as I am getting ready to head out the door but I will post a link to the thread later after I go through my threads or feel to browse through them and find it yourself.

In the meantime here is the info from IFAS. From what it says 4-6 hours which would be similar to seville. The only issues that I have heard about it is that it is hard to find, at least here in CFL and that it is showing it is more prone to fungus, which is why it is hard to find.

Landscape Poet
01-28-2011, 06:33 PM
ooopsss forgot the link

Here you go.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ep398

Landscape Poet
01-28-2011, 10:48 PM
And here is the link to the thread with the guy that has experience with it down here in FL. Maybe PM him if nobody else chimes in with info for you...see how it is doing as of now.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=326981

Ric
01-29-2011, 09:22 AM
I have found Bitter Blue to be very Shady tolerant and Easily Available in my area. It has the same course texture of Floratan and is easily mistaken for Floratan.

I bolded Easily Available in my area because that does play a big factor.

Plantculture
01-29-2011, 09:56 AM
Bitter Blue as far as I know is not readily available over here. Most places sell palmetto as shade tolerant, but I have found seville to be a better choice. However Seville is hard to get, and the December freezes fried the fields.

I've known about Captiva when it still had its research number and have been looking forward to it. Installed a couple pallets this morning, so we'll see how it does in sun and shade. My guess is this variety with a little trickery will cut mowing in half. I didn't know if anyone has personal experience with it.

Ric
01-29-2011, 10:06 AM
Bitter Blue as far as I know is not readily available over here. Most places sell palmetto as shade tolerant, but I have found seville to be a better choice. However Seville is hard to get, and the December freezes fried the fields.

I've known about Captiva when it still had its research number and have been looking forward to it. Installed a couple pallets this morning, so we'll see how it does in sun and shade. My guess is this variety with a little trickery will cut mowing in half. I didn't know if anyone has personal experience with it.

Plant

Locally Available is the Biggie. East coast sod grower kept right on with Seville while our area didn't. IMHO Seville is a much better choice. I really like Seville and wished we could get it locally. HOWEVER my experience with Seville has been on the older home where Seville was well maintained and could of had a better soil base. Therefore I may have a false reading on Seville.

Keith
02-18-2011, 01:48 PM
I've known about Captiva when it still had its research number and have been looking forward to it. Installed a couple pallets this morning, so we'll see how it does in sun and shade. My guess is this variety with a little trickery will cut mowing in half. I didn't know if anyone has personal experience with it.


Missed this thread. Their ain't no trickery to it. I put it in my small front yard on July 1st of last year. I might have run the mower over it 8 times total, and three of those were to vacuum up stuff that fell out of the raintree. I bagged it every time. Total clippings in six months was less than I would have gotten with Floratam in a week in July. Seems hard to believe, but that is the case. It is a strange grass.

fl-landscapes
02-18-2011, 01:54 PM
Missed this thread. Their ain't no trickery to it. I put it in my small front yard on July 1st of last year. I might have run the mower over it 8 times total, and three of those were to vacuum up stuff that fell out of the raintree. I bagged it every time. Total clippings in six months was less than I would have gotten with Floratam in a week in July. Seems hard to believe, but that is the case. It is a strange grass.

I like the sound of that. So are we talking a growth habit more like zoysia than floratam?

Tri-City Outdoors
02-18-2011, 03:03 PM
According to the IFAS Extension. Bitter Blue and Seville are listed as "very good" for shade tolerance. Bitter blue being a normal cultivars. Seville being the dwarf Cultivars.

Keith
02-18-2011, 03:18 PM
I like the sound of that. So are we talking a growth habit more like zoysia than floratam?

Well, during the summer, Empire will probably grow more than Captiva. At least it seems like it due to the thickness. Height wise, yeah, about the same.

Therein lies the problem. It does not grow horizontally too well either. I have edged mine twice, only because it had just a few runners headed an inch or so across the driveway and sidewalk. I had a bad spot from a couple of bad pieces that were on the pallet. It's never filled in. The spot looks just like it did three weeks after I put the sod down.

It has had several bouts with fungus, but none have done any permanent damage. I've fertilized it three times. Once with a 13-2-13 Elite particle, once with an Espoma organic product, and recently with 7-0-20 Sunniland that has a good amount of sewage sludge in it. For the most part, up until the frost, it maintained a consistent color and growth.

I did not water it for the first 16 days after installing it. We had enough rain that it was not necessary. And during periods of dry, I watered it .5-.6" once per week. Most of it is in the full sun, and it only showed stress on the seventh day.

I said it from the beginning, I would use it sparingly. This grass would not be good for those in the mowing business. It does have enough quirks that it should keep it from gaining widespread acceptance.

Plantculture
02-18-2011, 03:23 PM
Ive got installed in full sun and pretty deep shade about 2 weeks now. Its pegged and got its first mowing yesterday. I'll report how it does. Unfortunately someone bought the field so good luck finding it. I bet it would look slick mowed at 1.5" or 2" with a reel mower.

Ric
02-18-2011, 05:19 PM
According to the IFAS Extension. Bitter Blue and Seville are listed as "very good" for shade tolerance. Bitter blue being a normal cultivars. Seville being the dwarf Cultivars.

Tri City

Put Bitter Blue and Flortan next to each other and see if you can tell the differences.

I am a fan of Bitter Blue and feel it response better to fertilizer with a deeper Blue Green, hence the name Bitter Blue. BTW Bitter Blue has better cold Torrance also. I believe Bitter Blue can be found more in the Carolina's than Florida. Not unlike many Plants St Augustine is native to Brazil and was first brought to the Carolina's. The first successful Cultivar was in fact Bitter Blue because it was more cold hardy than other Cultivars.

Tri-City Outdoors
02-18-2011, 06:44 PM
When we get a bid for sod to fix up an area that gets to much shade we install Bitter Blue. Sometimes right next to a sunny Floratam area. Clients never know the difference and get a better install. Because it will last longer. Really a lot of the time reason for the st aug. die out is they do not have the trees pruned properly. To let more light in. We suggest it. Never happens.
Personally I prefer Bitter Blue "if" I were to install St. Aug. I love the color and think it gives the best curb appeal.
Installed a bitter Blue last year it is the greenest thing we mow right now. Installed a Floratam last year we are getting asked about patching it up this year.

Maybe this will help when looking for sod

http://www.floridasodgrowers.com/members.htm

Keith
02-18-2011, 08:44 PM
15 years ago I installed Bitter Blue everywhere. The color was definitely about as nice as they come. Once the farms around Lake Apopka began closing, it became a lot harder to find.

rob7233
02-18-2011, 09:14 PM
Captiva has not been available in our area not because of any fungal issues but because of field contamination issues. Reportedly the only one that had it last year that didn't have issues was R & B down in Lake Placid.

Now Captiva is claimed to be the shortest of all the semi-dwarf varieties of SA. Some have claimed it to be a true dwarf with much lower inputs and a slower growth rate. One week of growth of Floratam = 3 weeks of Captiva in the summer. That could put some lawn boys out of business.

Shade tolerance is also reported as equal to Seville. Cold tolerance is probably also equal to Seville but like Sapphire, Captiva is still being evaluated. We will know more later this year. I heard it will be ready for widespread distribution in the fall like most of the semi dwarf SA's.

Bella Blue and Bitter Blue have good shade tolerance and are standard height varieties of SA like Floratam. BB's growth habits are very similiar to Floratam and can be sodded right along Floratam for those shady areas. However, looking closely at BB, you will note that the internodal length is shorter (grows denser) than Floratam which tends to have a more open growth habit. Since all shade tolerant SA turf types do well in full sun. There is no issues using one shade tolerant type throughout the entire lawn. (When sod farmers grow shade tolerant sod, you don't see any shade cloth hanging over the entire field, do you??!!)

Floratam is also a full sun SA and Empire Zoysia is about as shade tolerant as Floratam despite what may be posted on the web. Zoysia is a different animal but a lot of folks seemed to like it. However, it is not the wonder grass it's been marketed as. UF is currently revising it's Zoysia publications to reflect current findings. I'm currently working with Palmetto in my own personal lawn and plan on lower inputs till I see a need to change it. Some of you in south FL seem to like it best. We all know there is no perfect grass type...

Keith
04-28-2011, 01:31 AM
Captiva...the grass with a split personality. I can't tell you how much different this grass is this year than last. I put 7-0-20 on it in late Jan or early Feb, and again about 10 days ago. No way can it go three weeks this year. At least this spring. It really needs to be cut now, only a week after it's last cut. Either it's spring flush, or my soil was so bad that it took a couple doses of sewage sludge to make it do it's thing.

Keep in mind, the color was very nice throughout the summer, fall and most of the winter. It just didn't grow much. It also spreads pretty well. I pulled a couple runners and put them in pots and they have moved out pretty good.

Keith
04-28-2011, 01:41 AM
A couple pics. Not that you can tell much. Ignore the weedy landscape :)

herdofem
07-23-2011, 08:14 PM
New lawn nightmare.
Planted Captiva in April after doing roundup and roto tilling of old St. Augustine/ Bermuda lawn. Used Millorganite in May after it was well rooted. Looked great except old crabgrass and buttonweed starting busting out every where. I had a lot of mushrooms, I guess from the organics from the sod grower, or decaying roto tilled organics? I also had a lot of wasps. I thought there were also connected with the decaying organics. Come later to find they were probably feeding on larvae. Grass had always grown fast. I was cutting it every week about 3.5 inches. I decided to stay with the organic approach and laid down some corn gluten meal in June I figured I could pull what had already come up and the corn gluten meal (CGM) would stop any more germination. CGM was the Bradfield Organics 9-0-0 and I put down about 15 lbs/ 1000. Then the rains came. The crabgrass loved the CGM, but lawn started to go a bit lime green from dark green. I also noticed some webbing in the grass in the morning. Shortly after those spots were go reddish brown. 2 weeks ago I sprayed Celsius herbicide for the crabgrass mixed with some thuricide for what I guessed was sod webworm. Last week I tried 2 tlb/gal of potassium bicarbonate for what looks to be gray leaf spot. Now grass is growing about half the rate it was from the Celsius (one half of the backyard I didn't use Celsius on is growing full speed) and the lawn is full of brown spots, which look to me as late stage gray leaf spot. So much for the organic approach. I called a spraying company today for an estimate for a good fungicide application.

If I was to do it again I would have laid down Dimension and Arena with the Millorganite and no more fertilizer until after the summer rains. I probably would not have had a flush which invited the gray leaf spot.:dizzy: