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View Full Version : $10 Per Acre!?!?!


rusty_keg_3
01-29-2011, 01:35 PM
Yes, $10 per acre, thats what my BOSS/brother bid on a few large accounts... One is 15 acres, one is like 8, and one is like 5...

I told him he is nuts, luckily we didnt get the contract yet but we have the lowest bid, so theirs a good chance we will get it! I am not a happy person tight now... Worst part is that its not just mowing... Theirs trimming anf blowing too!!!

Im wondering what you charge (roughly) per acre... So i can tell him... And ye i kno all markets are diffrent, but i still wnt some ideas please...
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LawnEnforcement25
01-29-2011, 02:03 PM
anywhere from $65-90 per acre depending on the amount of extra work i have to do. If its a residential acre with a driveways, walkway, trees, kids play area, etc... i would say about 80. I had 1.5 acres of land i was doing for $110 but upped it to $125 because it had 3 dwellings, a fence, and some edging and other trimming that needed to be done. i probably would not have gone any lower than about $50/acre on those bids.

rusty_keg_3
01-29-2011, 02:26 PM
I told him even for like $30 an acre we would still lose money... Its commercial... I wont say the names or locations, but they are a large store...
Posted via Mobile Device

LawnEnforcement25
01-29-2011, 02:27 PM
retract it and resubmit. tell them you made a mistake.

doubleedge
01-29-2011, 02:37 PM
Yup, that is indeed way low. Retract and resubmit the bid now or you will regret it later.

If it is wide open and regularly mowed and has minimal trimming, I would be happy with $50 an acre.

Agape
01-29-2011, 02:56 PM
Even the Latinos are laughing at you.

Patriot Services
01-29-2011, 03:06 PM
Not being too familiar with commercial bids, how big a deal is this? I am sure you would not be the first guy to ever back out after winning a bid. I don't see how you would be obligated prior to signing of any contract. Give your brother a purple nurple for this too.
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freshcut419
01-29-2011, 08:16 PM
Yes, $10 per acre, thats what my BOSS/brother bid on a few large accounts... One is 15 acres, one is like 8, and one is like 5...

I told him he is nuts, luckily we didnt get the contract yet but we have the lowest bid, so theirs a good chance we will get it! I am not a happy person tight now... Worst part is that its not just mowing... Theirs trimming anf blowing too!!!

Im wondering what you charge (roughly) per acre... So i can tell him... And ye i kno all markets are diffrent, but i still wnt some ideas please...
Posted via Mobile Device

How about I pay you guys to mow my lawns for $10 per acre then I just hang out at Put In Bay?

freshcut419
01-29-2011, 08:17 PM
Even the Latinos are laughing at you.

thats Funny

meets1
01-29-2011, 08:59 PM
We are bidding in the mid teens per acre. We make it work, other crews make it work. You guys charging $40 + an acre are the lucky ones in lucky areas with good money flow. Heck I would let everything sit and mow one large place for that type of money all week and think gee I made good money this week for a only a few hours mow time.

BINKY1902
01-29-2011, 09:12 PM
I really can't imagine 5 acres for $50? I wouldn't even get out of the bed in the morning for that.

Clark Griswold
01-29-2011, 09:22 PM
Even the Latinos are laughing at you.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

And your in one of the most depressed economy's in the nation too so maybe that's the going rate in your area!

bladesnshades
01-29-2011, 09:27 PM
Yes, $10 per acre, thats what my BOSS/brother bid on a few large accounts... One is 15 acres, one is like 8, and one is like 5...

I told him he is nuts, luckily we didnt get the contract yet but we have the lowest bid, so theirs a good chance we will get it! I am not a happy person tight now... Worst part is that its not just mowing... Theirs trimming anf blowing too!!!

Im wondering what you charge (roughly) per acre... So i can tell him... And ye i kno all markets are diffrent, but i still wnt some ideas please...
Posted via Mobile Device

Had two accts. that were both between 2-2.5 acres One was easy, only 1 tree, trimmed the house, driveway, the one tree, no ditches, and about 2 hrs. of straight line mowing on a Hustler 42" for 100.00
The other was a PITA, deep ditches that ran almost full length on 2 of the 4 sides, about 12 pecan trees and the usual stuff to trim and blow. Back half had always been brush hogged, rough in spots. Took about 3.5 hours, 150.00
The ditches ate my a$$. No easy way to do steep and deeps that i know of!:confused Glad your bro. did'nt bid that 2nd one for me.:laugh:

bladesnshades
01-29-2011, 09:33 PM
Yes, $10 per acre, thats what my BOSS/brother bid on a few large accounts... One is 15 acres, one is like 8, and one is like 5...

I told him he is nuts, luckily we didnt get the contract yet but we have the lowest bid, so theirs a good chance we will get it! I am not a happy person tight now... Worst part is that its not just mowing... Theirs trimming anf blowing too!!!

Im wondering what you charge (roughly) per acre... So i can tell him... And ye i kno all markets are diffrent, but i still wnt some ideas please...
Posted via Mobile Device

Had two accts. that were both between 2-2.5 acres One was easy, only 1 tree, trimmed the house, driveway, the one tree, no ditches, and about 2 hrs. of straight line mowing on a Hustler 42" for 100.00
The other was a PITA, deep ditches that ran almost full length on 2 of the 4 sides, about 12 pecan trees and the usual stuff to trim and blow. Back half had always been brush hogged, rough in spots. Took about 3.5 hours, 150.00
The ditches ate my a$$. No easy way to do steep and deeps that i know of! Glad your bro. did'nt bid that 2nd one for me.:laugh:

bladesnshades
01-29-2011, 09:53 PM
Yea i know, am i the only one thats ever done that? sorry

StanWilhite
01-29-2011, 10:04 PM
Even the Latinos are laughing at you.

:laugh::laugh::laugh: When I read that I thought (in a Mexican accent) "Chit....no way Jose".

Ric3077
01-29-2011, 10:23 PM
I wouldn't even cut 1 acre for $50...he will be losing tons of money

JayD
01-29-2011, 10:38 PM
Even the Latinos are laughing at you.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

JayD
01-29-2011, 10:42 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh: When I read that I thought (in a Mexican accent) "Chit....no way Jose".

:laugh::laugh::laugh:OMG....You guys are killing me here...:laugh::laugh::laugh:

LawnEnforcement25
01-30-2011, 01:43 AM
if it were a residence with 1 acre actual mowing, then trimming, edging, blowing, and minor obstacles like flower beds and a couple trees to trim around, i would probably be in the $80/cut range. maybe even $90-$100 depending on the amount of trimming that had to be done. if that same house were on 5 acres of land, i would not multiply $80 x 5 acres. I would bring the price down a bit since they are all in one place and require no addition work other than just running it over like the first acre. i would probably bring it down to about $60-65/acre, and then price out the edging/trimming/blowing separately. altogether you would probably be somewhere around $275-$325 price range including the extras. and thats per cut. does this seem a little high or about right for this scenario?

soloscaperman
01-30-2011, 01:43 AM
After tax, insurance, gas, and maintenance he will be NEGATIVE $40 then he will end up handing them a bill to pay for that LOL.

freshcut419
01-30-2011, 11:34 AM
if it were a residence with 1 acre actual mowing, then trimming, edging, blowing, and minor obstacles like flower beds and a couple trees to trim around, i would probably be in the $80/cut range. maybe even $90-$100 depending on the amount of trimming that had to be done. if that same house were on 5 acres of land, i would not multiply $80 x 5 acres. I would bring the price down a bit since they are all in one place and require no addition work other than just running it over like the first acre. i would probably bring it down to about $60-65/acre, and then price out the edging/trimming/blowing separately. altogether you would probably be somewhere around $275-$325 price range including the extras. and thats per cut. does this seem a little high or about right for this scenario?


Wow thats way more then 10 per Acre.. that sounds right thu but I would think when its gets that much to pay someone to mow your lawn most people would go buy there own $10,000 lawn mower and do it them self.I seem to do better with a bunch of smaller lawns in a row on the same street.:clapping:

TCL
01-30-2011, 12:05 PM
Yes, $10 per acre, thats what my BOSS/brother bid on a few large accounts... One is 15 acres, one is like 8, and one is like 5...

I told him he is nuts, luckily we didnt get the contract yet but we have the lowest bid, so theirs a good chance we will get it! I am not a happy person tight now... Worst part is that its not just mowing... Theirs trimming anf blowing too!!!

Im wondering what you charge (roughly) per acre... So i can tell him... And ye i kno all markets are diffrent, but i still wnt some ideas please...
Posted via Mobile Device

Sounds like your brother is trying to run the scrubs outta town!

MacLawnCo
01-30-2011, 12:53 PM
We are bidding in the mid teens per acre. We make it work, other crews make it work. You guys charging $40 + an acre are the lucky ones in lucky areas with good money flow. Heck I would let everything sit and mow one large place for that type of money all week and think gee I made good money this week for a only a few hours mow time.

ditto..............

RECESSION PROOF MOWING
01-30-2011, 06:23 PM
Guys that bid $19-22/ac are losing money so you can expect to lose about 40% of your gross bid automatically each morning you rise out bed to mow, trim, and blow those contracts. If you like losing money and mowing for free, you should be ecstatic! This is where we are in the big municipal contract mowing business, folks. Guys like this going out and bidding $10/ac! That's like somebody coming to your door and wanting to mow your front and back yard for $4.00. Go back to your inspectors or bidding supervisor and plead them to let you out of that idiotic bid and please return your bid bond. Have mercy on the stupid. It probably will work, so ask nicely and tell him straight up that you guys didn't know what you were doing. Remember on medium to larger commercial/municpal jobs...if you don't bid at least $25/ac, and that's with lean workforce, you'll never make it. You'll try, you'll waste a lot of good men's time, you'll go through equipment, eventually...they all fade and go home. If you can't make money at mowing, don't do it.

RECESSION PROOF MOWING
01-30-2011, 06:34 PM
I know expenses better than most in the city park/boulevard mowing business. I've got half way house guys mowing cheap and good for me. If you bid in the teens per acre on mow, trim, blow, pickup trash...don't sell me that you're making real money. Sell that to somebody else. I know what those guys drive, I know where they live, and I know the banks and financiers of their equipment...those guys have convinced themselves that they are businessmen...but they aren't. They're making payroll by the skin of their foreskin. Paying Peter this week, paying Paul the next. They have trouble finding surety companies to back their performance bonds. In fact, many of them falsify the bonds because their credit is crap. This is the real world that nobody likes to talk about, but I'll talk because I'm into reality not fiction. The mowing business, especially big time municipal gov'ment side, needs to be exposed for what it is. The lowest and the worst of us get work and good luck to the inspectors and supervisors who have to work with this contractor. All year long they anguish and are troubled with quality problems and on time gaffes and "forgotten areas of the park that weren't mowed". I know all the tricks of trade. You look at those tax ledgers at year's end...lol...you probably made about $5/hr for all that risk and headache. Believe me, believe what I say you newbies...don't get into the mowing business thinking that $15/ac will get you rich. You're just fooling yourself. I met this kingpin fool who bids low on Kansas City parks and boulevards up north. His motto was that if he had $1 million dollars worth of contract work, all he cared about making net 10%. That guy is broke. That guy hasn't a pot to piss in. He drives a junker, lives in a rundown house in a wornout part of KC, but he's got all this used equipment to get the jobs done barely on time and to impress inspectors. That's no businessman...that's a lot of work for $100K. And I bet that figure is a lie as well. If that guy makes $75K off $1 mil, I'd eat my hat!

Just put the figures down on paper, the simplest calculatons to see how ridiculous lowballing is. If you bid $15/ac on a 10 ac park, for instance...that's $150. How many guys do you think it will take to mow, trim, blow, pickup trash in that small/medium size park? Math doesn't work, does it? I could mow 4 residentials in about 1 hr 30 minutes for $150 with one guy and me. How long would one guy and yourself take to do that 10 ac park? This is the realistic talking you need to have with guys like me and yourself. Don't be stupid. The mowing business is chock full of 'em.

SouthSide Cutter
01-30-2011, 07:31 PM
if it were a residence with 1 acre actual mowing, then trimming, edging, blowing, and minor obstacles like flower beds and a couple trees to trim around, i would probably be in the $80/cut range. maybe even $90-$100 depending on the amount of trimming that had to be done. if that same house were on 5 acres of land, i would not multiply $80 x 5 acres. I would bring the price down a bit since they are all in one place and require no addition work other than just running it over like the first acre. i would probably bring it down to about $60-65/acre, and then price out the edging/trimming/blowing separately. altogether you would probably be somewhere around $275-$325 price range including the extras. and thats per cut. does this seem a little high or about right for this scenario?

Just don't see anyone in our area paying around 1200 a month to have their grass cut if they have 5 acres. They will mow it themselves or not cut all of it. Would love to have accounts like this. But would bet country wide theses are far and few.

starry night
01-30-2011, 07:45 PM
Hey Rusty, no wonder you were asking in another thread about going into business for yourself! Lose your brother. I'll pm you within a couple days.
By the looks of the weather forecast you may be off school for three or four days this week.

dingybigfoot
01-30-2011, 08:15 PM
I know expenses better than most in the city park/boulevard mowing business. I've got half way house guys mowing cheap and good for me. If you bid in the teens per acre on mow, trim, blow, pickup trash...don't sell me that you're making real money. Sell that to somebody else. I know what those guys drive, I know where they live, and I know the banks and financiers of their equipment...those guys have convinced themselves that they are businessmen...but they aren't. They're making payroll by the skin of their foreskin. Paying Peter this week, paying Paul the next. They have trouble finding surety companies to back their performance bonds. In fact, many of them falsify the bonds because their credit is crap. This is the real world that nobody likes to talk about, but I'll talk because I'm into reality not fiction. The mowing business, especially big time municipal gov'ment side, needs to be exposed for what it is. The lowest and the worst of us get work and good luck to the inspectors and supervisors who have to work with this contractor. All year long they anguish and are troubled with quality problems and on time gaffes and "forgotten areas of the park that weren't mowed". I know all the tricks of trade. You look at those tax ledgers at year's end...lol...you probably made about $5/hr for all that risk and headache. Believe me, believe what I say you newbies...don't get into the mowing business thinking that $15/ac will get you rich. You're just fooling yourself. I met this kingpin fool who bids low on Kansas City parks and boulevards up north. His motto was that if he had $1 million dollars worth of contract work, all he cared about making net 10%. That guy is broke. That guy hasn't a pot to piss in. He drives a junker, lives in a rundown house in a wornout part of KC, but he's got all this used equipment to get the jobs done barely on time and to impress inspectors. That's no businessman...that's a lot of work for $100K. And I bet that figure is a lie as well. If that guy makes $75K off $1 mil, I'd eat my hat!

Just put the figures down on paper, the simplest calculatons to see how ridiculous lowballing is. If you bid $15/ac on a 10 ac park, for instance...that's $150. How many guys do you think it will take to mow, trim, blow, pickup trash in that small/medium size park? Math doesn't work, does it? I could mow 4 residentials in about 1 hr 30 minutes for $150 with one guy and me. How long would one guy and yourself take to do that 10 ac park? This is the realistic talking you need to have with guys like me and yourself. Don't be stupid. The mowing business is chock full of 'em.

Very well put man!

RECESSION PROOF MOWING
02-01-2011, 01:40 AM
Appreciate it, BigFoot. Just keep'in it real, dawg.

Swampy
02-01-2011, 02:54 AM
I know expenses better than most in the city park/boulevard mowing business. I've got half way house guys mowing cheap and good for me. If you bid in the teens per acre on mow, trim, blow, pickup trash...don't sell me that you're making real money. Sell that to somebody else. I know what those guys drive, I know where they live, and I know the banks and financiers of their equipment...those guys have convinced themselves that they are businessmen...but they aren't. They're making payroll by the skin of their foreskin. Paying Peter this week, paying Paul the next. They have trouble finding surety companies to back their performance bonds. In fact, many of them falsify the bonds because their credit is crap. This is the real world that nobody likes to talk about, but I'll talk because I'm into reality not fiction. The mowing business, especially big time municipal gov'ment side, needs to be exposed for what it is. The lowest and the worst of us get work and good luck to the inspectors and supervisors who have to work with this contractor. All year long they anguish and are troubled with quality problems and on time gaffes and "forgotten areas of the park that weren't mowed". I know all the tricks of trade. You look at those tax ledgers at year's end...lol...you probably made about $5/hr for all that risk and headache. Believe me, believe what I say you newbies...don't get into the mowing business thinking that $15/ac will get you rich. You're just fooling yourself. I met this kingpin fool who bids low on Kansas City parks and boulevards up north. His motto was that if he had $1 million dollars worth of contract work, all he cared about making net 10%. That guy is broke. That guy hasn't a pot to piss in. He drives a junker, lives in a rundown house in a wornout part of KC, but he's got all this used equipment to get the jobs done barely on time and to impress inspectors. That's no businessman...that's a lot of work for $100K. And I bet that figure is a lie as well. If that guy makes $75K off $1 mil, I'd eat my hat!

Just put the figures down on paper, the simplest calculatons to see how ridiculous lowballing is. If you bid $15/ac on a 10 ac park, for instance...that's $150. How many guys do you think it will take to mow, trim, blow, pickup trash in that small/medium size park? Math doesn't work, does it? I could mow 4 residentials in about 1 hr 30 minutes for $150 with one guy and me. How long would one guy and yourself take to do that 10 ac park? This is the realistic talking you need to have with guys like me and yourself. Don't be stupid. The mowing business is chock full of 'em.

Thanks very well put. My day job is a super for high acerage company, yes we used to do a 3 full school districts a week. The last one we lost over it $450 per cut. And the last I've seen the company that was awarded the contract doesn't have bigger mowers, other than 60in ztr's. We can drop the price but like you said no profit and barely covers the fuel costs so we want do it.

RECESSION PROOF MOWING
02-01-2011, 04:28 PM
Thanks very well put. My day job is a super for high acerage company, yes we used to do a 3 full school districts a week. The last one we lost over it $450 per cut. And the last I've seen the company that was awarded the contract doesn't have bigger mowers, other than 60in ztr's. We can drop the price but like you said no profit and barely covers the fuel costs so we want do it.

Don't mow grass for free. Sounds simple but there are so many guys do it that my brain hurts. I talk to these guys around municipal bidding tables and I just don't get their objectives in life. They sit there and look so pitiful and broke, I almost want to give 'em a sandwich and blanket! And then the stupid city inspectors hand them a contract, and another, and another, knowing full well they will fail scope of services. And citizens want the gov'ment handling our health care dollars??????????? lol...geez...stay smart and refuse to work for free, friend. I'm with ya...

c3wlandscaping
02-01-2011, 04:58 PM
I am doing a 13 acre cemetery for 550 a cut and trim and I thought that was really low. I don't feel so bad about that bid now. That was before I started reading this post. Thank god for ls
Posted via Mobile Device

2Klen4u
02-01-2011, 06:09 PM
FTW:clapping:




I know expenses better than most in the city park/boulevard mowing business. I've got half way house guys mowing cheap and good for me. If you bid in the teens per acre on mow, trim, blow, pickup trash...don't sell me that you're making real money. Sell that to somebody else. I know what those guys drive, I know where they live, and I know the banks and financiers of their equipment...those guys have convinced themselves that they are businessmen...but they aren't. They're making payroll by the skin of their foreskin. Paying Peter this week, paying Paul the next. They have trouble finding surety companies to back their performance bonds. In fact, many of them falsify the bonds because their credit is crap. This is the real world that nobody likes to talk about, but I'll talk because I'm into reality not fiction. The mowing business, especially big time municipal gov'ment side, needs to be exposed for what it is. The lowest and the worst of us get work and good luck to the inspectors and supervisors who have to work with this contractor. All year long they anguish and are troubled with quality problems and on time gaffes and "forgotten areas of the park that weren't mowed". I know all the tricks of trade. You look at those tax ledgers at year's end...lol...you probably made about $5/hr for all that risk and headache. Believe me, believe what I say you newbies...don't get into the mowing business thinking that $15/ac will get you rich. You're just fooling yourself. I met this kingpin fool who bids low on Kansas City parks and boulevards up north. His motto was that if he had $1 million dollars worth of contract work, all he cared about making net 10%. That guy is broke. That guy hasn't a pot to piss in. He drives a junker, lives in a rundown house in a wornout part of KC, but he's got all this used equipment to get the jobs done barely on time and to impress inspectors. That's no businessman...that's a lot of work for $100K. And I bet that figure is a lie as well. If that guy makes $75K off $1 mil, I'd eat my hat!

Just put the figures down on paper, the simplest calculatons to see how ridiculous lowballing is. If you bid $15/ac on a 10 ac park, for instance...that's $150. How many guys do you think it will take to mow, trim, blow, pickup trash in that small/medium size park? Math doesn't work, does it? I could mow 4 residentials in about 1 hr 30 minutes for $150 with one guy and me. How long would one guy and yourself take to do that 10 ac park? This is the realistic talking you need to have with guys like me and yourself. Don't be stupid. The mowing business is chock full of 'em.

RECESSION PROOF MOWING
02-01-2011, 07:44 PM
I am doing a 13 acre cemetery for 550 a cut and trim and I thought that was really low. I don't feel so bad about that bid now. That was before I started reading this post. Thank god for ls
Posted via Mobile Device

You're doing alright at $550 compared to the city contracter here in KC that mows 27ac/5000 headstone historic cemetery for $750. Pray for that guy...he'll need it. I and the inspectors have a bet riding on how long this guy lasts. I say he won't make it past the first month before his senses return to him. The inspector is giving him one try at it before pulling the plug. My experience tells me that a guy will lose money the first cut and count that as the price of learning. The second cut is when he doubles down and loses twice as much and runs for the hills and begs mommy and daddy for his performance bond back! Insanity Defense will be in play for this lowballer. April 11th is the first cut. He'll be out of the city lowball mowing game by May.

c3wlandscaping
02-01-2011, 07:51 PM
Thank god I only have to mow it 9 times. By the end of the season I m sure I will be licking my wounds and will prepair a better bid for the following year. If at all.
Posted via Mobile Device

2Klen4u
02-01-2011, 07:51 PM
How long is he spending on cemetery?

You're doing alright at $550 compared to the city contracter here in KC that mows 27ac/5000 headstone historic cemetery for $750. Pray for that guy...he'll need it. I and the inspectors have a bet riding on how long this guy lasts. I say he won't make it past the first month before his senses return to him. The inspector is giving him one try at it before pulling the plug. My experience tells me that a guy will lose money the first cut and count that as the price of learning. The second cut is when he doubles down and loses twice as much and runs for the hills and begs mommy and daddy for his performance bond back! Insanity Defense will be in play for this lowballer. April 11th is the first cut. He'll be out of the city lowball mowing game by May.

RECESSION PROOF MOWING
02-01-2011, 08:01 PM
How long is he spending on cemetery?

And the inspectors gave it to him anyway! The city of KC is supposed to hand out jobs "Lowest and BEST" but they always go low and worst. This guy who won the cemetery hasn't a clue and management should've stepped in and saved the contractor from himself. He has no idea how long it will take. That's their job, or one of 'em. I'll be out there with a tall glass of lemonade watching this lowballer do his thing. That's my entertainment for the spring...

dingybigfoot
02-01-2011, 08:15 PM
And the inspectors gave it to him anyway! The city of KC is supposed to hand out jobs "Lowest and BEST" but they always go low and worst. This guy who won the cemetery hasn't a clue and management should've stepped in and saved the contractor from himself. He has no idea how long it will take. That's their job, or one of 'em. I'll be out there with a tall glass of lemonade watching this lowballer do his thing. That's my entertainment for the spring...

:hammerhead:
I'd join you and watch this guy. :drinkup:

2Klen4u
02-01-2011, 08:23 PM
Now that's some funny stuff!! You should video and host on Youtube


And the inspectors gave it to him anyway! The city of KC is supposed to hand out jobs "Lowest and BEST" but they always go low and worst. This guy who won the cemetery hasn't a clue and management should've stepped in and saved the contractor from himself. He has no idea how long it will take. That's their job, or one of 'em. I'll be out there with a tall glass of lemonade watching this lowballer do his thing. That's my entertainment for the spring...

bladesnshades
02-02-2011, 08:48 AM
:hammerhead:
I'd join you and watch this guy. :drinkup:

I'm in, sounds like Sturgis only for lawnmowers! :drinkup:

RECESSION PROOF MOWING
02-03-2011, 04:45 PM
Now that's some funny stuff!! You should video and host on Youtube

I like that...yeah...I think on April 11th bright and early I'm gonna be out there with my video camera and capture some footage of this circus for all to enjoy. Count on it!

JayD
02-03-2011, 04:56 PM
I like that...yeah...I think on April 11th bright and early I'm gonna be out there with my video camera and capture some footage of this circus for all to enjoy. Count on it!

Oh please do....I cant wait..

Will P.C.
02-03-2011, 05:43 PM
You might as well ring a doorbell and ask the resident if you can pay them to cut their grass while they look at you through the window

Patriot Services
02-03-2011, 06:52 PM
Please remind me why commercial mowing is so great again. Threads like this cure me everytime doing commercial starts to sound like a good idea.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mickhippy
02-04-2011, 05:06 PM
$10/acre equates to $0.0025/m2
Just found out our city sub contractors are charging $0.0125/m2.
I personally charge $0.06 - $0.065/m2 for foot paths, nature strips mow and trim. (could charge a little less but there is travel involved)
Open areas like parks I can charge about $0.03/m2 depending on number of trees/trimming etc

The OP will most certainly go broke charging that price.
Our city guys struggle on there price with I dunno, 4 Scag TT's, 5 or 6 trimmer guys, trucks for transport, shop and maintenance costs etc. Not to mention $1.50/Lt for fuel!

JayD
02-04-2011, 09:27 PM
Yes, $10 per acre, thats what my BOSS/brother bid on a few large accounts... One is 15 acres, one is like 8, and one is like 5...

I told him he is nuts, luckily we didnt get the contract yet but we have the lowest bid, so theirs a good chance we will get it! I am not a happy person tight now... Worst part is that its not just mowing... Theirs trimming anf blowing too!!!

Im wondering what you charge (roughly) per acre... So i can tell him... And ye i kno all markets are diffrent, but i still wnt some ideas please...
Posted via Mobile Device

more than likely you will not get it. when they see how low it is compared to all the others, they will now some one messed up the bid and just throw it out. they will figure that you don't know what your doing.

scraper1
02-04-2011, 10:02 PM
You will lose money, not worth it. $40-$60 in my area per acre. Little cheaper for 5 plus. Gas, labor, wear and tear, insurance, overhead. Good luck.

RECESSION PROOF MOWING
02-07-2011, 07:16 PM
please remind me why commercial mowing is so great again. Threads like this cure me everytime doing commercial starts to sound like a good idea.
posted via mobile device

any time i can bring real life to your personal finances, i'm here for ya. I don't want guys to lose money competing against lowballers. Don't kick yourself in the nuts, but plenty do. Sore, swollen nuts and a city contract in hand don't make you the donald trump of mowing.

coxslawncare
02-07-2011, 10:29 PM
i would go work for someone else before i worked for 10 dollars an acre. You could do better selling Avon. Lol

Patriot Services
02-07-2011, 10:43 PM
i would go work for someone else before i worked for 10 dollars an acre. You could do better selling Avon. Lol

Avon? Hell a tin cup and an intersection.
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LibertyFarmLandscaping
02-08-2011, 12:09 AM
Just sitting at home doing nothing. At least this way it's only costing your home bills. Electric, water, mortgage, etc.

If you mow for $10 per acre it's costing you the money your donating to the city in gas, wear and tear etc. In addition to donating the free mowing labor, plus you still have your home expenses. I'm no MIT rocket scientist, but I think just simple addition and subtraction on a calculator clears this up.

ecurbthims
02-08-2011, 12:27 AM
Do yourself a favour,fire yourself .

StanWilhite
02-08-2011, 01:24 PM
Do yourself a favour,fire yourself .

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

krackerjack9
02-08-2011, 02:50 PM
I just charge $35.00 a hour to mow and nothing else. I got a Rhion 12ft batwing and can due 10 acres in about 3hrs or less depending if its over a foot or more. Now if its brush on some hunting land cutting out senderos or shootin lanes then its $55.00 a hour.:cool2: Needless to say I have made alot of other contractors mad but made alot of customers happy. I got one contractor who subs me out just to due large lots 4 acres and up.

Texas Lawn
02-08-2011, 03:08 PM
$10 an acre?!?!? I bet they drug test your brother after that one

rosarioslawncutters
02-13-2011, 11:42 PM
wow $10 per acre...thats way too low....we charge around here from $50 to $90 per acre...wow..is he looking for some sub jobs...i can give him a few acres..lol...ill make a fortune without doing anything

Mahoney3223
02-14-2011, 12:25 AM
i think most guys in ohio have lost their minds this year. i thought 30.00 an acre was bad....get him to a doctor stat

paponte
02-14-2011, 02:53 PM
Funny I came across this thread, as I am just finishing up three large mowing proposals. Some people are coming up with some really ridiculous numbers, and I honestly doubt you have experience in wide are mowing.
Let me ask you guys to bid this one for me, these being commercial fields with minimal trimming besides property lines and front sidewalks and curbs in front of the properties. I would like to know your numbers, and also how long it would take to to mow it, and what size crew...

11 buildings, all within a 7 mile radius equaling 177 acres. Good luck! :dancing:

Patriot Services
02-14-2011, 03:04 PM
Sure. 10.00 x 177 = 17,700 dollars. And from reading this thread I would still get underbid by someone.
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starry night
02-14-2011, 03:14 PM
Sure. 10.00 x 177 = 17,700 dollars. And from reading this thread I would still get underbid by someone.
Posted via Mobile Device

$17,700 Wow that's a lot of money. $15,000 sounds like a lot of money.
Yeh, that's the ticket. I bid $15,000. I'll be counting those dollars in my sleep tonight.

paponte
02-14-2011, 03:14 PM
Sure. 10.00 x 177 = 17,700 dollars. And from reading this thread I would still get underbid by someone.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yes, you would surely get underbid with that number, let's push that comma to the left one and drop a zero.

Patriot Services
02-14-2011, 03:23 PM
DOH!! But a hundred bucks an acre does have a nice ring to it.
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starry night
02-14-2011, 03:28 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

I didn't even notice that Patriot's number figured out to $100 an acre.

But my point was that some yoyo's would look at a total dollar amount and think it was a lot of money without even figuring their cost per hour.

THEGOLDPRO
02-14-2011, 03:39 PM
Your brother is infact a low baller.

freshcut419
02-14-2011, 06:37 PM
Ges i wounder if his brother as read any of this...

starry night
02-14-2011, 09:35 PM
Ges i wounder if his brother as read any of this...

Nor have we heard from the OP.

Agape
02-14-2011, 09:45 PM
Sure. 10.00 x 177 = 17,700 dollars. And from reading this thread I would still get underbid by someone.
Posted via Mobile Device

$1,770 dollars

Patriot Services
02-14-2011, 10:18 PM
$1,770 dollars

See, I told you I would get underbid and by the guy with the shiny old truck.
Posted via Mobile Device

c3wlandscaping
02-14-2011, 10:29 PM
i dont think i could get a herd of sheep to take care of that lawn for $1,770. of course i could get my cousin jimbob and and my other cousin jonboy to fire up thier international harvestors for a few cases of blatz beer. lol just kiddin

rusty_keg_3
02-14-2011, 11:15 PM
Yea, im still here... Lol, i knew 10 was stupid, but he said it was fine... Ive been reading... This is why im prob just gonna start my own business... I might go to college tho, so idk i id start now, or wait a few years... Hmm..... Maybe ill flip burgers, and buy the equip off my bro for pennys on the dollar... Lol, hell, we have a brand new lazer z with under 30 hrs on it... A trailer with like 100 miles... 2 brand new stihl trimmers... 1 with like 15 and the other still hasnt used a tank of gas... Anr a brand new br 550... And 2 other br 550/... Lol
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starry night
02-15-2011, 10:48 AM
Rusty, so did you guys get those jobs that your brother bid for $10 an acre or not?

crslolbkr
02-15-2011, 11:47 AM
This is just a ploy to get people to tell you how much they pay per acre right? Man I hope so. That's crazy stuff buddy. If you need some pricing here's a good example of what not to do. This should be helpful for all new lawn guys.

I'm just starting out and do all residential. My worst customer lived 12 minutes away from the rest of my route had just over an acre and I charged her $60 because she was the mother of a good customer. She was always complaining about prices for everything including her mowing which I also trimmed and blew. It took me about 50 min. altogether. This year I have told her the price will be $75. because after 12 min. of drive time there, 50 min. of service and 12 more min. of drive time back thats 74 min. My goal in this area is $60/hour. That's $1/min. I can't cover all my expenses and pay myself for less....period!

Low-balling creates a bad market for ALL of us. Talk to pros in your area to get an idea of how NOT to drive down the value of your service. You'll likely fail if you don't.

........ten bucks an acre. :laugh:

ecurbthims
02-15-2011, 12:46 PM
Rusty, so did you guys get those jobs that your brother bid for $10 an acre or not?

they were underbid by some mexicans hopefully !

rusty_keg_3
02-15-2011, 10:28 PM
This is not a joke, im dead serious... His bid was 150 per cut... And its 15 acres... I told him he has lost it, he was like no, so i asked here for input... Im seriously considering starting my own biz... This stuff is crazy!
Posted via Mobile Device

THEGOLDPRO
02-15-2011, 10:30 PM
is your brother desperate for work?

trooper8870
02-15-2011, 10:33 PM
Even the Latinos are laughing at you.

That's hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:laugh::laugh::laugh:

trooper8870
02-15-2011, 10:47 PM
This is not a joke, im dead serious... His bid was 150 per cut... And its 15 acres... I told him he has lost it, he was like no, so i asked here for input... Im seriously considering starting my own biz... This stuff is crazy!
Posted via Mobile Device

If you are operating gas powered mowers, you will use up have of that 150.00 for fuel. 15 acres in my area would probably go for around 850.00 to 900.00 per cut. That is depending on the terrain and how much time on the trimmer. You guys are fixing to take one deep on that account. This is one time I will say that I hope you do not get that account. :cry::cry:

mowerdude777
02-15-2011, 10:54 PM
Even the Latinos are laughing at you.

Thats awesome, mind if I add that to my sig?

rusty_keg_3
02-15-2011, 11:11 PM
Not really hurting for accounts, he just wants more like any1 else... Hes just being stupid about it... I hope we didnt get it, i havent heard anything more about it yet...
Ohh and its all flat, im not sure how much trimming and bliwing...
Posted via Mobile Device

starry night
02-15-2011, 11:45 PM
Flat or not and even with no obstacles I wouldn't make any money mowing it for $10 / acre. I'm only asking for you to think about; don't answer; but how much does he pay you to mow an acre?

rusty_keg_3
02-16-2011, 07:56 AM
Well, i dont get paid per acre... Im paid by the hour... He looks at exmarks productivity charts and thinks that it will take 1 person on the mower about 3 hrs... So he thinks that we will make like 30 per hour... But the 1 of the stores is 45 min away! I honestly dony know how much trimming... But im guessing 1 hr min, plus blowing
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Patriot Services
02-16-2011, 02:43 PM
Well, i dont get paid per acre... Im paid by the hour... He looks at exmarks productivity charts and thinks that it will take 1 person on the mower about 3 hrs... So he thinks that we will make like 30 per hour... But the 1 of the stores is 45 min away! I honestly dony know how much trimming... But im guessing 1 hr min, plus blowing
Posted via Mobile Device

Manufacturer productivity charts are designed to sell mowers not assist with bids. They are nothing more than mathematical formulations by guys with sliderules. The same goes for the top speed claims.
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meets1
02-16-2011, 05:55 PM
I agree. We haved played with manufactuirer claims on flat out open speed against open grass. Open ares where I use the wams etc. I have yet to get those perfect claims you read on a chart.
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huntemup
02-16-2011, 07:02 PM
no thanks! i wouldnt do it. On a straight mow, without drives buildings,ect. Can you mow 5 ac an hr? that's 3hrs min. on that 15. 150.00 plus a whole lot a wear on your mowers,running flat out to do it. i have 5 houses in a row i can do in 1 1/2-2 hrs and make alot more. Then there is the fuel that is going up all the time!

aarons lawn
02-16-2011, 08:14 PM
10 bucks a acre i hope u go under people like that mess up our industry!!!!!!!

Swampy
02-17-2011, 02:54 AM
10 bucks a acre i hope u go under people like that mess up our industry!!!!!!!

1. Read, its not the OP its his brother
2. I hope you can back that up. I run a 580-D I can turn a profit on that at $10/acre (depending what the situation dictates). Will we stoop that low to undermine the market NEVER!!!!
3. Some people can do it, thats why they are around and still be around. Is it top notch work? probably not. Is their equipment nice as yours? probably not.

Rusty I hope you guys pull through this being what you and your family has been through. Don't let the situation bother you.

aarons lawn
02-17-2011, 12:27 PM
1. Read, its not the OP its his brother
2. I hope you can back that up. I run a 580-D I can turn a profit on that at $10/acre (depending what the situation dictates). Will we stoop that low to undermine the market NEVER!!!!
3. Some people can do it, thats why they are around and still be around. Is it top notch work? probably not. Is their equipment nice as yours? probably not.

Rusty I hope you guys pull through this being what you and your family has been through. Don't let the situation bother you.

you mabe make 2 bucks a acre at best so u telling meu get out of bed for a couple bucks an hour ur crazy my equipment dont run for under 90 bucks an hour there is no reason anyone should be cutting grass at 10 bucks a acre simple as that

westsweeper4
02-17-2011, 04:25 PM
you mabe make 2 bucks a acre at best so u telling meu get out of bed for a couple bucks an hour ur crazy my equipment dont run for under 90 bucks an hour there is no reason anyone should be cutting grass at 10 bucks a acre simple as that

I guess you really dont understand what Swampy said. People CAN turn a profit on 10 bucks an acre. He DID NOT say he would do it, but it can be done. You dont know each businesses situation.

Look up how many acres per hour a Toro 580d(current model 5900) can cut. Maximum mow rate is 20.8 acres per hour. At a conservative 12 acres an hour mowed, that 10 bucks an acre turns into $120 an hour. So before you go spouting off about people being crazy, maybe you should know what you are talking about.

starry night
02-17-2011, 05:14 PM
Hey. let's not forget the OP's question. He wasn't talking about some wide open flatland industrial or park mowing. He specified three "large store" locations of 15, 9, and 5 acres which require trimming and blowing and they are miles apart. (Toledo OH so city driving) Based on that: $10 acre is profitable?

westsweeper4
02-17-2011, 06:00 PM
Yes, I agree given the OPs situation that it probably not the best/most profitable. It just gets kinda annoying with all these closed minded people making blanket statements saying stuff is not possible.

But anyways, with some of the statements around Lawnsite you can see why there are people out there bidding so low.

cdjones
02-17-2011, 07:03 PM
we would be at 85 for the first acre and 40 for each additional acre works for us but everywhere is different and everyones operation costs and such is different as well...but 10/acre..ummm no can do

aarons lawn
02-17-2011, 07:29 PM
I guess you really dont understand what Swampy said. People CAN turn a profit on 10 bucks an acre. He DID NOT say he would do it, but it can be done. You dont know each businesses situation.

Look up how many acres per hour a Toro 580d(current model 5900) can cut. Maximum mow rate is 20.8 acres per hour. At a conservative 12 acres an hour mowed, that 10 bucks an acre turns into $120 an hour. So before you go spouting off about people being crazy, maybe you should know what you are talking about.

look at the big picture people like that are driving prices down down down
how many lawns do u mow that are 12 acres of flat ground??????
figure drive time in there too
in the end you are NOT making very good money in my opinion

if everyone would would bid stuff higher all around in the end we all would make alot more money even though i know thats not gunna happen it would be a really good thought

westsweeper4
02-17-2011, 09:41 PM
look at the big picture people like that are driving prices down down down
how many lawns do u mow that are 12 acres of flat ground??????
figure drive time in there too
in the end you are NOT making very good money in my opinion

if everyone would would bid stuff higher all around in the end we all would make alot more money even though i know thats not gunna happen it would be a really good thought

So let me ask you this then, what is considered good money? $40 hr net, $60, $80.

I want to see what you consider good money before I continue.

paponte
02-17-2011, 10:48 PM
I guess you really dont understand what Swampy said. People CAN turn a profit on 10 bucks an acre. He DID NOT say he would do it, but it can be done. You dont know each businesses situation.

Look up how many acres per hour a Toro 580d(current model 5900) can cut. Maximum mow rate is 20.8 acres per hour. At a conservative 12 acres an hour mowed, that 10 bucks an acre turns into $120 an hour. So before you go spouting off about people being crazy, maybe you should know what you are talking about.

Do you have any experience with WAM's? Are you aware of the initial costs and not to mention the maintenance costs involved? Even based on the production rates of a WAM, you must include the additional labor involved in trimming & cleanup, drive time, insurance, workers' comp, fuel, etc. etc.. Having experience, I find it hard to believe you are turning a profit with that number. Maybe covering your overhead, but not much more.

bmc1025
02-18-2011, 12:05 AM
we would be at 85 for the first acre and 40 for each additional acre works for us but everywhere is different and everyones operation costs and such is different as well...but 10/acre..ummm no can do

This is very close to my prices as well but we obviously have to take other aspects into the equation as well before submitting a bid.

westsweeper4
02-18-2011, 02:05 AM
Do you have any experience with WAM's? Are you aware of the initial costs and not to mention the maintenance costs involved? Even based on the production rates of a WAM, you must include the additional labor involved in trimming & cleanup, drive time, insurance, workers' comp, fuel, etc. etc.. Having experience, I find it hard to believe you are turning a profit with that number. Maybe covering your overhead, but not much more.

Actually yes I do have experience with them. Basically the full line of Toro mowers, from fairway Reelmasters to the 5900 and even the 4100. Worked on a golf course for several years, and did quite a few cost analysis on each of the mowers above. These are general numbers just to show everyone. Based on running 800 hours a year, these are yearly figures on expenses. Probably high on everything but a cushion is always nice.

Fuel $6400
Mower Depreciation/ Repair $16000
Insurance $6000
Truck/Trailer/Handhelds/Misc $16000
Operator (taxes, wk comp etc) $28000

Excess $23600


This is based on being solo. If you want to add someone to trim, which I would, you should also add another mower, so the acres per hour would go up.

Listen, I WOULD NOT bid 10 bucks an acre, but just because someone else can, doesnt mean they are "bringing down the industry". Thats the great thing about capitalism

paponte
02-18-2011, 09:25 AM
Listen, I WOULD NOT bid 10 bucks an acre, but just because someone else can, doesnt mean they are "bringing down the industry". Thats the great thing about capitalism

It sure does, cause it's near impossible (and I will stand behind that) to turn a profit at that price after figuring deductions. Based on your numbers you would have to cut a minimum of 100 acres per week for the season to just about break even. I'm not attacking anyone, so not intended to be taken that way. I also feel your numbers are realistic without actually breaking out the calculator and doing real figuring. We have the capability to cut just under 200 acres per day, and I couldn't cut for those numbers. Just payroll alone.

So yes, for the people that do WAM for a living, it does bring down the industry when a new guy comes in and thinks he's going to turn a profit at those prices. There's absolutely no need for it. As it is profit margins are at record lows, where a hiccup can mean the difference of breaking even or losing money. There is just no need for it.

huntemup
02-18-2011, 11:13 AM
We will always have poeple that will work for next to nothing! what I dont get is how you can aford to run giant mowers and pay for them at low rates? No I dont do this full time I am blessed with a good job. But that doesent mean I low ball everyone else to get work. I do have insurance and everything that goes with it. I have a guy that works for me also. I dont have all the factors and formulas for profet and such, but i know what i need to charge, and i cant mow for that!

MikePalmer
02-18-2011, 12:00 PM
Wow, $10/acre?!@# It's amazing how low we're willing to go when the economy is bad and there's so much competition driving down the bids. At some point, we gotta say enough is enough and not try to undercut ourselves out of business.

mezammit
02-18-2011, 04:04 PM
Palmer I couldn't agree more. How low are we willing to go? Everything in the green industry is going up but it seems the prices that these companies give out keep getting lower. I went to a city bid meting this morning and read some good news. In the city requirements and statement that was given out to all of the contractors it stated that the lowest bid will not always be accepted. Maybe it is just a hokes but it was nice to see it in a writing contract. It is sad to see what some of these companies bid not just city properties for though. We are all in business for business. I don't cut to much commercial properties for the reason that they are always getting underbid. Property managers and such are getting very smart and taking full advantage of these low ball bidders. Keep up the good work that we can perform and good things can happen.

Swampy
02-18-2011, 04:09 PM
It sure does, cause it's near impossible (and I will stand behind that) to turn a profit at that price after figuring deductions. Based on your numbers you would have to cut a minimum of 100 acres per week for the season to just about break even. I'm not attacking anyone, so not intended to be taken that way. I also feel your numbers are realistic without actually breaking out the calculator and doing real figuring. We have the capability to cut just under 200 acres per day, and I couldn't cut for those numbers. Just payroll alone.

So yes, for the people that do WAM for a living, it does bring down the industry when a new guy comes in and thinks he's going to turn a profit at those prices. There's absolutely no need for it. As it is profit margins are at record lows, where a hiccup can mean the difference of breaking even or losing money. There is just no need for it.

True, I said on my post as the sitiuation dictates meaning that trimming is miniumal and more or less flat mowing. Your figure of 200 acres per day is just what that single machine is roughly tasked to do. Off 10 bucks a acre thats $2000 per day x that by 5 days of mowing that comes to $10000 per week and so forth. if you can't say your makeing profit at $40000 a month with one machine you must some high interest loans and credits cards.

One thing that people fail to realize is that no customer wants to see a huge bill, running large machines actually saves money. Figure mowing a 140 acre school district, there is a lot of trimming to be done, and work smaller machines but you present them a bill at $12600 ($90 per acre) per day to just cut and trim the district. Thats why we do more of the per hour vs per acre rates it works out in the longer run and its harder to judge but your still going to be more profitable and you can easily incorparate your drive times into it.

Swampy
02-18-2011, 04:21 PM
couldn't edit. But I'm not arguing just trying to show the other side of the "coin"

aarons lawn
02-18-2011, 11:23 PM
Wow, $10/acre?!@# It's amazing how low we're willing to go when the economy is bad and there's so much competition driving down the bids. At some point, we gotta say enough is enough and not try to undercut ourselves out of business.

im going to say about 95% of us are all on thesame page 10 bucks per acre is insane end of story anyone that thinks thats okay is crazy simple as that if you are cutting grass for that you all must like to work for dam near free and makes me wonder where stolen equip must be workin just say 10 bucks your out of ur mind to make money with all running costs

aarons lawn
02-18-2011, 11:24 PM
mike ur on the same pages as me thanks

aarons lawn
02-18-2011, 11:26 PM
So let me ask you this then, what is considered good money? $40 hr net, $60, $80.

I want to see what you consider good money before I continue.

net 90 to 110 or we dont work period!!!!!!!!! pick n choose accounts

starry night
02-19-2011, 09:33 AM
net 90 to 110 or we dont work period!!!!!!!!! pick n choose accounts

I pick my clients as well but how much do you charge an hour if you NET 90 to 110? wow !

aarons lawn
02-19-2011, 02:48 PM
I pick my clients as well but how much do you charge an hour if you NET 90 to 110? wow !

sorry that was gross 110