Thinking about buying a bagging system

[lasher66]

Hi,
I have a 52"Bunton ZTR that I was thinking about buying a bagging vac system for. I have been cutting for 4 years and managed to get buy without bagging. It just seems to me that when I drive by other LCO's that are out cutting with bagging systems on there mowers, the lawn looks picture perfect because there are no leaves or grass on the lawn. I been using doubles in the spring time but it just seems like so much work double and triple cutting and blowing clippings around to make a lawn look good. I know I will have to deal with hauling away clippings in the spring but I think that would be faster . Another plus about bagging would be the fall time. Just wanted to know if bagging is worth it or not ? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Lasher

[Doc Pete]

It sounds to me you may need to rethink your approach to how you mow. For me, I mow when the lawn needs it. If I have to mow every 3/4 days I do. I've found people don't seem to understand how much it is to bag their lawn, especially if you have to haul the grass away. Guy's that bag in NJ usually have a 40 yards dumpster at work and dump the collected grass each day in it. I don't bag so I'm only guessing, but I don't think most customers want to pay $60/70 per hour knowing part of what you do is just dump grass and drive it home. Again, I don't bag, so I don't how things are priced, but if you're not getting at least the same amount of money to "bugger lug" the grass around, I wouldn't bag.
Last if you have to double and triple cut the lawn it's way too long, Yes???? And, if you have the type of customer that only wants the lawn done once a week, I don't think you're gonna be able to charge them a "good fee" just for disposing of "grass".
Pete

[lasher66]

All my customers are on a weekly basis, I have customers that are planned for the same day every week. If I cut every 3 to 4 days , that means my customers will be cut on a different day of the week and therefore leaves less room for more customers to fit into my schedule for the rest of the season. I have about 50 residential accounts that I do myself . From what I see ,most LCO's that cut residential operate this way.

Lasher

[The Mowerdude]

I have 2 Great Dane Chariots and each has its own Peco system.

We've found that in general, you rarely need to collect grass clippings except in yards that where the customer really wants to go the extra distance AND the grass is a really fast growing variety such as many of the fescues during moderate temps with lots of rain. That type of customer is not the norm. I think that you'll find that those yards that look super nice, will look normal if you walk over there and look close. But while you're standing there looking close at the super yard, turn around and look back at the one you just cut and I think you'll see that it looks just as good from the same distance. The other LCO is probably wondering why his quality isn't matching yours. Ha Ha

So I usually have at least one Peco up and running in the spring to handle those really fast growing ones and also to offer a service helping people who were knuckleheaded enough to let their yards get away from them. Of course, for that I knock their teeth out on price.

In the fall, now, you're talking an entirely different ballgame. During leaf season the baggers really come into there own and with some aggresive marketing, your bagging attachments will pay for themselves in truckloads in no time at all.

Definately worth it.

[Doc Pete]

Originally posted by lasher66
All my customers are on a weekly basis, I have customers that are planned for the same day every week. If I cut every 3 to 4 days , that means my customers will be cut on a different day of the week and therefore leaves less room for more customers to fit into my schedule for the rest of the season. I have about 50 residential accounts that I do myself . From what I see ,most LCO's that cut residential operate this way. Lasher

I know what you are saying, and I agree many guys cut that way. However, you already are finding out the down side of cutting that way;) Lawns don't grow the same all the time. If you cut every week, I'm guessing in the summer you are cutting when the lawns don't really need to be cut. I just can't cut that way.
Let me ask you, do you charge extra for cutting the lawn 2/3 times, or are you a flat rate? If you are a flat rate you are losing money. Also, what I don't understand is if you mow a lawn once a week that needs double/triple cutting, then the lawn really looks crummy half way through the week that you normally cut it, because it's way too long when you get there. If this is the type of people you mow, I'd look for customers that want a nice lawn, and are willing to pay to have it cut twice a week if needed.
I have 40 customers, and I mow them as needed. I have a chart of all customer for each time I cut, and adjust my daily schedule for those that need a once a week cut, every other week, twice a week and so forth.
Pete

[Mow&Snow]

My main mower is a 52" Bunton that is 4 years old. I put a manufacturers bagger on it for 1500 bucks. This thing will pull the green out a lawn it sucks so hard. This tool paid for itself the first week I had it the fall. It's my main tool for picking up leaves.

Not only that, but I it gives me a great deal of flexability while mowing. If I mow a lawn and it looks alittle crummy, I can quickly go over the rough areas with collection to tidy it up.

Don't hesitate to buy that bagger!

[Doc Pete]

Originally posted by Mow&Snow
Not only that, but I it gives me a great deal of flexability while mowing. If I mow a lawn and it looks alittle crummy, I can quickly go over the rough areas with collection to tidy it up.

Don't hesitate to buy that bagger!

My only point is, I assume you charge extra for the "quick clean up".... Yes????
Pete

[Mow&Snow]

Charge extra for five min. worth of work to make a job look professional? Um no...

[The Mowerdude]

Originally posted by Switchless@aol.com


My only point is, I assume you charge extra for the "quick clean up".... Yes????
Pete

I charge depending on the circumstances. If it's a really good customer that's been with me for a long time, no, I probably won't charge. In fact, I may not even mention the fact that we even put in the extra labor.

On the other hand, if it's a customer that consistantly is causing me to put so much extra time in every trip that I'm passing up good paying work elsewhere, absolutely I'm charging extra.

But hey, that's all an individual decision we each have to make. Let's not base it on what all the other LCOs are doing.

The beauty of being the owner of the business is that we get to call our own shots. :cool:

[Doc Pete]

Originally posted by The Mowerdude
The beauty of being the owner of the business is that we get to call our own shots. :cool:

That sounds OK to me, too, and what I'd do, too. I guess I'm splitting hairs without knowing it, since I really thought bagging is never just a 5 minute affair.
Pete

[Mow&Snow]

If I mow an entire lawn with double gators, and the lawn is groomed regularly then there is normaly only a few places where the clippings show. Maybe three or four rows. It only takes 20 seconds to throw on the chute and 2 min more to run over those rows.

Sometimes you can get this little bit of grass by hitting it with a backpack, but it needs to be real light for this to be faster than just picking it up.

[yacht]

I too am thinking about buying a bagging system and am weighing the prospective return on the investment. After reading all of your posts I'm gathering that most of you aren't charging anything extra to bag?? If I charge $50 to cut a lawn now...no bagging, customers perfectly happy, then put on a bagger shouldn't I try to get a few extra bucks? :confused:

[The Mowerdude]

Yacht

The most important reason to buy a bagger is to be able to offer leaf removal in the fall. The potential income off of this alone makes the investment worthwhile.

Go read the post: "Still struggling with quoting a leaf removal rate..."

Read the entire thread. I think after reading the entire thread, you'll probably be chomping at the bit to buy a good bagging system.

[rodfather]

We've been using Trac Vac collection systems on all our mowers (WB's, 3-wheelers, Groundsmasters) for 7 or 8 years now. We love them.

Frankly, I feel the Fall time is an excellent time to make a lot of money picking up leaves for your customers. For us, it is the most profitable time of the year right after our fertilizing program.

When those leaves start fallin', it's like money from heaven. A good vac system on a mower (usually $1500 - $2000) should pay for itself in a month or two.

As for using them during the mowing season, you should charge extra I feel (especially if you're hauling the grass way)...which we don't. I tell the customer right up front, if you want it bagged, fine...but it stays here on the property.

[Doc Pete]

Originally posted by rodfather

As for using them during the mowing season, you should charge extra I feel (especially if you're hauling the grass way)...which we don't. I tell the customer right up front, if you want it bagged, fine...but it stays here on the property.

Rod,
I try to do that, too. I guess since I don't have more than a few that want bagging and/or leaf removal, it doesn't pay for me to invest in that type equipment. Also, I have a friend that has removal equipment and I just throw the business his way and even let the customer pay him directly.
Pete

[HOMER]

Our City picks up our clippings/debris

Sometimes bagging is faster than trying to mulch. For those of us who have more work than we can get to we sometimes run into a yard that is a wee bit overgrown. Rather than fool with the double cutting I pull off the Scag with the Trac-Vac and run over it. I'm done and dumped ( curbside ) way before I could be had I run over the yard twice. My accounts are on contract. They pay the same thing 12 months a year. It's up to me to get the job done as efficiently as possible. I don't charge my regular customers any extra for leaf removal like the boys up North do.......no way would they pay the amounts other areas of the country are paying. If leaves are heavy and can't be blown into the woods then off comes the Chopper to mulch and the Scag to collect. My fall times may be a few minutes longer than the summer times but not by much.

The Trac-Vac has been a really good investment for me. My first couple of years were spent trying to mulch and blow and rake.......was I a nut! Get something to collect this stuff and you'll be glad you did.

[Doc Pete]

Originally posted by HOMER
The Trac-Vac has been a really good investment for me. My first couple of years were spent trying to mulch and blow and rake.......was I a nut! Get something to collect this stuff and you'll be glad you did.

I know my 14hp fradan blower has paid for itself many times over. It will blow a dry pile of leaves 4 foot high into the weeds....... makes those 10hp machines cry for mercy. It's got a really wide stream and doesn't punch a hole in the pile, but moves the whole thing:p
Pete

[lasher66]

Originally posted by Mow&Snow
My main mower is a 52" Bunton that is 4 years old. I put a manufacturers bagger on it for 1500 bucks. This thing will pull the green out a lawn it sucks so hard. This tool paid for itself the first week I had it the fall. It's my main tool for picking up leaves.

Not only that, but I it gives me a great deal of flexability while mowing. If I mow a lawn and it looks alittle crummy, I can quickly go over the rough areas with collection to tidy it up.

Don't hesitate to buy that bagger!


I also have a 52" bunton that is a year old. You said that you have a manufacurers bagger on it. Does that mean its a Bunton Bagger? I cant find any bagger made by Bunton. Where did you get it? Thanks for your info.

Lasher

[Mow&Snow]

It seems we are working off to threads Lasher.
Check the other one and respond, then I will answer.

[021462]

I have also been debating whether or not to buy a bagging system. I have a Toro ZMaster 52". I know the dealer sells a bagger for this unit for around $1900.00. I also can dump my leaves and grass shavings at the curb. Reading all the reply's it sounds like you guys think it is a good investment?

[Mow&Snow]

021462, Yes! buy one. Big money maker for fall clean-up. Springtime too.

[Phishook]

I've got a Bunton also. Unfortunatly.

Bunton totally changed it's mowers a few years back.

The older ones (what I have) have a 50" or 60" deck. The catcher on them is belt driven right off the motor. Boy dose it suck! In both ways.

The newer Bunton's are better built. They went to a better deck and changed it to 52". The catcher on the new one has a 5 hp. motor, I'm not sure if they make a catcher for the new style. I only saw it briefly.

[MOW ED]

I feel for you gents but the bookends of the mowing season is where the tortise beats the hare.
What I mean is that everyone says that Z's are faster than the Walker but on average, that isn't so.
I will agree that in times of growing grass a Z can be more productive on the right property and I would like a Z for my own someday when I acquire enough of those properties to make it cost effective.
I am a small LCO but have been at it for 7 successful years and I really love the spring and fall as I have the machine that makes it fun to work in those times.
The fall leaves are really no problem for the Walker and I don't have to tow a 2000.00 vacuum behind me. I cant even imagine doing that on the hills that I have to do. I am positive that I would tumble into the river. I don't have extra belts or extra maintenance to do on the machine. I have yet to find that a Walker is a high maintenance machine. The Walkers are now set with Donaldson filtration and a turbo precleaner.

Mowing season allows me to use the 52SD deck and still get done in a reasonable amount of time. Spring and fall will require the 42GHS deck and I vacuum thatch in the spring or leaves in the fall. When the 9.5bbl bagger is full the horn goes off and its time to dump. Dump it where you want it, back of a truck/trailer, on the curb, out in the back 40. It dumps in 10 seconds, then off you go to fill it again. It takes stuff wet or dry, of course it plugs every now and then but it gets easier to figure out with a little experience. The tilt up deck allows any clogs to be quickly delt with and back to work.

I see other LCO's that use tarps and pull alongs and 4 guys with BP blowers and rakes and I feel for them because I am using so much less energy than they are to do the same job. My technique is simple but it took me a few years to figure it out. Leaf season can be slow going and I used to work alone. With the addition of a helper and a Toro WB equipped w/doubles and a mulch plate, we can grind em up and vacuum the big lumps. It works for us.

I will always have a Walker in the lineup and to this point its my main moneymaker. I'm waiting for them to fall.

[Brickman]

You tell em Mow Ed!!!!!



When it comes to bagging every thing else stands back and watches Walker. Yeah they may have a slower ground speed, but is superior when bagging.

[Mow&Snow]

Not sure I agree about the Walker. While it is a nice bagging machine,I once put a boot though mine without jamming it up....

[lasher66]

Well, I found a vac for my Bunton that I think I am going to buy. It is a Hasty Vac with a 6.5hp honda motor on it with two 30 gal cans on the back. This system is selling for $1950 installed. Cant wait for fall now, should be much easier. If anyone knows of any history of this vac system , please feel free to let me know. thanks

Lasher

[The Mowerdude]

You GO man!!

Now to find a good back pak blower and a helper. You'll need some way of disposing of the piles of leaves. If the city comes and takes them, you're good to go. If not, you'll have to try and get the customers to help somehow.

Keep me posted. I really want to know how it goes.

Also, the first 2 seasons that we were doing leaves, I put out signs along the road that said:

Leaf Removal
297-2361

I put out about a hundred of them. There is an ordinance against these signs but by the time the city made me remove them, I had loads of new customers. It was worth it.

BTW, that phone # is old.

[llama]

i didn't know you had a trac vac. I need to purchase one. Where did you get yours?

[**JW'S LAWNCARE**]

how do you guy feel about the vacs that run of the mowers motor?? I feel they would seriously limit the pwer of the mower when it is need the most. I am leaning towards buyiing a peco vac with a 5 hp motor, what do you guys think?

[Shawns Lawns]

i think bagging gives a more manicured look its neat and clean :waving:

[socty]

I know this is a late reply, but I have a Peco and I love it. Sure, it clogs on pine needles and extremely thick, wet grass, if you're going too fast, but going slow is so worth it. Great machine.

[Tobe Lawn Care]

Lasher 66

We own 2 Hasty vacs. However, they are the dump from your seat models. They run off the deck spindle. We also have the Bluebird version of the system you are looking at. It has a 6 hp Kohler w/2 30 gal cans. It is what we used before we had our truck loader. If you haven't purchased one yet e-mail me and I'll get you some info./pics. It is currently @ Wagoner Power Equipment on consignment for $750. 937.836.9611 lo:) cated in Englewood,OH. Approx. 2 hrs. from Toledo

[clydesdale]

here is what i dont get... You really wont have much of a Fall cleanup if you bag each week right? So if i get 250 bucks for a cleanup on a half acre, how much would I have to charge each week for the 3 weeks or so that the leaves are falling and i am cutting. Or do i skip the blowers and just use the bagger at fall cleanup time. This year i will cut through the leaves for a couple of weeks, then bring out the blowers and do a cleanup, then put the grass gobbler on and suck up the stragglers and leave a nice cut for the winter.
But how would i price the bagging each week and would it get rid of my clean up? Thanks

[higgyandson]

We have been told that we live in a litle pocket of the world where every customer expects the grass bagged and removed. We cut once per week and charge extra for spring and fall cleanups. Fall cleanups start when the leaves cover the grass under the trees! We run 2 ZTR's with triple bags. The system runs off the deck spindle and does a reasonably good job of cleaning except for a small trail under the blower on the discharge side of the deck. Has anyone tried using double blades with a bagger?