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View Full Version : Why does Kichler make it so complicated???


JimLewis
01-31-2011, 02:54 AM
I'm trying hard to make the mental switch over to Kichler LED this year. I really love the concept of LED and I like what I've seen from Kichler the best out of all of the LED stuff I've seen.

But coming from a guy who's used mainly the Unique Odyssey series for so many years, it's extremely aggravating trying to make the jump.

I finally figured out what it is that bugs me so much about Kichler - and why I haven't been using them at all for so many years. It's that their line is so disorganized and sporadic! I can't stand that!

With the Unique Odyssey series, it was always simple to chose a fixture.There are only a handful of fixtures in the whole series. And each of the 20 or so main fixtures in that series had a name that I could easily memorize. So when I wanted a bullet spot light, I would immediately think of the name "Pulsar" or "Probe". If I wanted to use a Path Light, I'd almost always use either the "Mercury" or "Saturn". If I wanted a wall wash light, I'd think of the "Stellar" or "Starburst". In addition, each fixture only came in one finish. It was all Brass. No other option.

But with Kichler LED it's all confusing as heck! It starts with the impossible to remember names like 15724-AZT. But don't get that confused with the 15724-BRS or the 15724-WHT. Or whatever other finishes that fixture comes in.

In addition to having impossible to remember names, their brochures are difficult too! With Unique it was easy to go through the options with a customer or chose the fixtures on my own. Every one of the 20 or so fixtures was right there on one page, on one document. Electronically, it's the same. You can go to their website and it's all there on one simple page (http://www.uniquelighting.com/product_pages/od2.htm).

Not so with Kichler LED. As near as I can tell, you have to go through 10 different pages on their website, starting here (http://www.landscapelighting.com/portal/products_page/portlet_catalog/products/search_for_family?portlet_catalogfamily_id=LAND_LED&portlet_catalog{actionForm.productId}=15742AZT) to see all of their LED fixtures.

Or if you want them in brochure form, again as near as I've been able to get from my distributor or from any of Kichler's booths at trade shows - there isn't just one simple brochure that has all of those main fixtures. It takes several different brochures to show them all.

It's exasperating!

Can't Kichler just make one simple brochure or one simple web page showing 15 or 20 main LED fixtures and then on the back say something like, "and here are the 5 different finishes those all come in"? Why does it have to be so complicated? And can't they give them some sort of easy to remember name? Most other manufactures do!

I'm trying very hard to get on board with Kichler. But every day I find myself just wanting to go back to using Unique Odyssey. It was just so freakin' simple! Is is just me?

BrandonV
01-31-2011, 06:09 AM
Kichler makes fixtues for people who want to see their fixtures... Aka what you think of this path light, how about this one sweetie? Unique and the others (my opinion) with simpler but high quality lines are for those who are selling effect. I ask my clent: do you REALLY want to see your uplghts/downlights? Kichler has some good stuff but i rather work with a nice brass fixture any day.
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bcg
01-31-2011, 07:19 AM
Jim, there is a seperate print brochure with just the LED fixtures in them. I'll see if I can't get you one at AOLP this week.

JimLewis
01-31-2011, 02:46 PM
Thanks Bernie! That would be awesome. I haven't found one single brochure that has ALL of their LED fixtures in it. But that would definitely help. I would greatly appreciate it.

djt22
02-01-2011, 10:58 AM
Jim ask your supply house to contact Kichler for the 2011 Literature they have what and have had what you are looking for since LED came out. If that doesn't work shoot me a pm...

JimLewis
02-01-2011, 01:02 PM
I've got all sorts of literature that was given to me by my local Kichler supplier. I'm pretty sure I've got every cut sheet and brochure they have. The problem is they keep coming out with new LED path lights, new LED wall wash lights, new LED underwater lights, etc. and So they have like one main brochure that has 70% of the LED line, and then another 4 or 5 cut-sheets that show the rest. I just need one quick easy brochure that shows it all. I haven't seen that yet. And their website definitely doesn't have it, unless I'm blind. And I have been accused of being that by my wife.

Gr1ffin
02-01-2011, 01:17 PM
I've got all sorts of literature that was given to me by my local Kichler supplier. I'm pretty sure I've got every cut sheet and brochure they have. The problem is they keep coming out with new LED path lights, new LED wall wash lights, new LED underwater lights, etc. and So they have like one main brochure that has 70% of the LED line, and then another 4 or 5 cut-sheets that show the rest. I just need one quick easy brochure that shows it all.



I really don't think you are being very fair to Kichler. Reprinting a complete brochure each time you release a new product wouldn't make sense. Lastly they are primarily an indoor fixture co with thousands of fixtures in thousands of showrooms -- that helps understand why they use product numbers. (Plus it's certainly not a good way to get a free demo kit from them :) )

Respectfully,

bcg
02-01-2011, 08:00 PM
The way they do it now it's incredibly frustrating and time consuming for me and a client to choose fixtures.

Jim, this is just my opinion but it should be you choosing the fixtures, not the client. They shouldn't see 90% of them and what they do see should be installed in a way that causes them to blend in as much as possible. The one thing I don't like about Kichler is their large selection of fixtures. I definitely prefer the Cast or Alliance model of fixture choices.

JimLewis
02-01-2011, 09:56 PM
I am with you on that. And I do handle most of the fixture selection, most of the time. But customers like to at least see what I am recommending.

So part of the problem is I am trying to put together my own custom brochure for Kichler LED and my supply house is helping put this together for me. They are also looking into putting a demo. kit together. And so my rep. asked me, "Well, what fixtures do you want me to include in the brochure and demo kit?" And so that's what started this whole thread. I started going through all my Kichler stuff and checking out the website and got all frustrated. I was like, Holy crap! Where do I even begin? This is a mess.

But my main goal is to just take a couple of bullet lights, a couple of path lights, a couple of wall wash lights, etc. and just make my own custom brochure with just like 10 or maybe 15 fixtures. And if I have to give them names to make it easier, I will. But just getting to the point where I can find 10 or 15 that I want to put together in a set like that has been very frustrating.

bcg
02-02-2011, 12:30 AM
There are really only about 5 fixtures you're going to need most of the time though. The 1573x, 1574x and 1575x are all the same so pick any one of those, the 15815 or 15826 are the only path lights I'd show, the 15861 for a wash light and then for submersibles, the 15700 or 15711, depending on how much light you need. You can use a 60* 1573/4/5x or the 15711 as a wash light as well. This should cover 95% of your design needs.

The rest of it will just be stuff that you will need so infrequently that a cut sheet should be adequate. I would pick a deck light and then an understep like the 15745. I think with just that, you should be able to handle 99% of your design needs with maybe 7 different fixture styles.

JimLewis
02-02-2011, 02:11 AM
Thank you!

djt22
02-03-2011, 10:05 AM
Jim you should force the issue with kichler a little more to supply this for you they may be willing. Vista has what is called a Regional Favorites Brochure that is a great hit for the contractors.

JimLewis
02-03-2011, 11:45 AM
I have a meeting with my local Kichler rep. next Friday and they are in the process of creating a custom brochure for us to use. We're also going to discuss the demo. kit issue as well.

They already sent me a free transformer, since that was a hold up for me. I've always been really sold on the toroidal core transformers and I never knew they made those. I thought only Unique, Cast, and Volt made those. So I was talking with a guy at the I.A. show (Tom Rowe? I think that is his name...) and he was extremely helpful in educating me on Kichler and their transformers. When I mentioned the fact that I was really sold on Unique transformers, he asked why and then said, "We have toroidal core transformers as well, in our pro series. Why I don't I send you one?" True to his word, he did. Just received that.

But yah, I think this will work out. With this thread, I was just venting because I was getting so frustrated that night trying to choose some fixtures. I still think they should make it more simple. But until then, my custom brochure will fix that problem.