PDA

View Full Version : What's everyone using to contrl weeds in St. Augustine here in Florida?


abrightday
02-01-2011, 07:59 AM
So spring is rapidly approaching,,chinch are rearing their heads, we're supposed to hit 80 today in Central Florida. What are you using to control those various weeds out there?
We are currently using Atrazine, restricted use, must log treatments, with a low rate of eliminate D from lesco, sometimes adding basagran, if there is a sedge problem,,but when the temps go above that 85 degree mark, what will you be using,,manor, celsius? inquiring minds want to know,,results? ect. Thanks for your participation.
www.YourLandscapePro.com

Landscape Poet
02-01-2011, 06:26 PM
So spring is rapidly approaching,,chinch are rearing their heads, we're supposed to hit 80 today in Central Florida. What are you using to control those various weeds out there?
We are currently using Atrazine, restricted use, must log treatments, with a low rate of eliminate D from lesco, sometimes adding basagran, if there is a sedge problem,,but when the temps go above that 85 degree mark, what will you be using,,manor, celsius? inquiring minds want to know,,results? ect. Thanks for your participation.
www.YourLandscapePro.com

Albright - not sure that my answer as to what I use on my own lawn is what you are looking for but I currently use manor for the broadleaf weeds and dismiss is what I had used for any sedge issues, but I do not think I am going to use it anymore because I had a bad issue with it mixed at the recommended strength for SA. Those two take care of the majority of issues that I have in my lawn.

abrightday
02-01-2011, 07:32 PM
Sedgehammer, basagran both work great, never used dimiss,,

Landscape Poet
02-01-2011, 08:57 PM
Sedgehammer, basagran both work great, never used dimiss,,

Sedgehammer would of been the way I went if I had known about it at the time. It would of been much more cost effective for me since there is not profit for me in my own lawn.
I went with the Dismiss as a result and I do not recall what it cost at the time but it was a lot. When I went with the recommended rate for SA on the label, knocked the hell of of the sedge that was in the little area of my lawn. The issue is that since it also controls broadleaf weeds and I had some mixed up I thought I would just spray the whole lawn. Big mistake. The lawn was brown from stressed. I thought I had killed my lawn.

I have used it a couple times since then - but at a much lower rate. And it does do a great job killing sedge. Its results are visable in 24 hours...but I will be moving on to sedge hammer when I finally get through this bottle.

olive123
02-06-2011, 10:26 AM
be careful with manor, the researchers at UF have found oak deaths releated to its use. Came about in a seminar in Miami

gregory
02-06-2011, 10:42 AM
i use manor never had any problems with my oaks. is there anything on the net that i can read?

Ric
02-06-2011, 12:58 PM
be careful with manor, the researchers at UF have found oak deaths releated to its use. Came about in a seminar in Miami

Olive

Everyone who has any had traditional Education in Turf (College Classes etc) has had the test question about either dying trees or shrubs next to turf and ask to figure out why.

Hello what is MSME (Manor) other than a broad Leaf killer the same as Atrazine etc etc. I am sure MSME has certain plants it effects more than others. But in general we as professional applicators should already be a ware of off target application UNDER GROUND as well as Drift.

Actually this post should be manitory reading for those without Licenses. Maybe then they might under stand why is takes 3 year work experience etc to be a Legal applicator here in Florida.

greendoctor
02-06-2011, 05:30 PM
Sulfonylurea herbicides will move downward in sandy soils. They are also more mobile and persistent in alkaline soils. Metsulfuron methyl(MSME, Manor, Blade) is one of the best tree killers I know of. It is marketed as Escort XP to railroads and utility ROWs to control trees. I occasionally get some grief from clients because I will not spray a lawn when heavy rain is expected within a week. That is much better than the hassles from killing their trees and their neighbor's trees because something I sprayed has washed down into the root zone.

Ric
02-07-2011, 11:53 AM
Sulfonylurea herbicides will move downward in sandy soils. They are also more mobile and persistent in alkaline soils. Metsulfuron methyl(MSME, Manor, Blade) is one of the best tree killers I know of. It is marketed as Escort XP to railroads and utility ROWs to control trees. I occasionally get some grief from clients because I will not spray a lawn when heavy rain is expected within a week. That is much better than the hassles from killing their trees and their neighbor's trees because something I sprayed has washed down into the root zone.

Greendoctor

Escort XP is sold in 16 oz bottles for $ 140 while Manor/Mansion is sold by Lesco JDL for $ 100 an Oz. Go figure they both are made in the same vat and just labelled different. However Don't get caught using Escort XP on a Residential lawn.

greendoctor
02-09-2011, 03:48 AM
Not worth it for me to do that. I cost what I do so there is no need for me to use the low priced ag labeled AI on lawns. BTW, there is Calisto(Tenacity) in my state for use by the seed corn farmers. I will probably never see Tenacity in my state. Is it worth it for me to buy Calisto and use it on my st augustine and centipede lawns. No.

Ric
02-09-2011, 10:57 AM
Not worth it for me to do that. I cost what I do so there is no need for me to use the low priced ag labeled AI on lawns. BTW, there is Calisto(Tenacity) in my state for use by the seed corn farmers. I will probably never see Tenacity in my state. Is it worth it for me to buy Calisto and use it on my st augustine and centipede lawns. No.

Green

Calisto and Tenacity are about the same Agency price per Gallon $ 725. That is actual is down a little from Last year. The 8 oz Tenacity story a current thread in Pesticide forum, I can not confirm through my suppliers who are also a repackaging plant with establishment numbers.

Celsius was a real hyped bust IMHO. But I am hearing great thing about Tenacity. Two factors have kept me from purchasing it. First the label which only lists Sod Farms Golf Course Etc. And most importantly the $ 725.00 plus Tax.

abrightday
02-09-2011, 07:32 PM
So Ric, what are you using on St. Augustine lawns for weed control, we're all on the edge of our chairs,, inquiring minds just want to know,, Thanks for you input.
www.YourLandscapePro.com

gregory
02-09-2011, 09:02 PM
good luck abright. some things ric wont tell you. he's paid his dues and he's going to keep that to him self. like killing bermuda in SA. i use artazine, dismiss, certainty, manor, quicksilver, depends on the time of the year.

tallrick
02-11-2011, 10:54 AM
My opinion is that st augustine is the crabgrass of Florida. Not as ugly as bahia, but close.

Patriot Services
02-11-2011, 05:32 PM
My opinion is that st augustine is the crabgrass of Florida. Not as ugly as bahia, but close.

And what is your grass of choice?
Posted via Mobile Device

tallrick
02-11-2011, 05:50 PM
And what is your grass of choice?
Posted via Mobile Device

Zoysia or bermuda. Centipede is OK but still better looking than st augustine.

Patriot Services
02-11-2011, 05:57 PM
Zoysia or bermuda. Centipede is OK but still better looking than st augustine.

Same here.
Posted via Mobile Device

Tri-City Outdoors
02-11-2011, 07:53 PM
I know I may be banished for life but........

Has anyone seen a properly installed and maintain Bahia lawn. Personally Bermuda is my top choice.

Zoysia or Centipede is also great. I dislike st. augustine. However st. augustine installs & maintenance is my bread & butter!

Patriot Services
02-11-2011, 08:03 PM
Yea my next door neighbor. I told him he would be sorry with Bahia, he said bah! Grass is grass and half the price. Good install, then he hacked it to 1", starved it of water and wondered why it died in the shade. Says my lawn infected his and killed it. I said bah! We don't speak now.
Posted via Mobile Device

tallrick
02-11-2011, 08:21 PM
I have helped friends establish a zoysia lawn only to have neighbors complain it invaded and ruined theirs. There is no way a home lawn of bahia can look good, but on large properties bahia can look presentable if watered and not mowed too often. The seed heads are the big problem. Personally I find sod expensive and unnecessary. When I do my own yard I spent weeks tilling, sifting and leveling the yard after adding minerals, compost and soil. All the turf that is for show or used in sports events is not st augustine. Ever saw a football field, soccer field or golf course planted with st augustine? The reason it is so popular is that it will grow with no care. My personal favorite bermuda grass is the wild variety, which seems to thrive with little care as long as it has adequate moisture. Whenever I can get rid of st augustine it is a satisfying moment.

South Florida Lawns
02-12-2011, 04:15 PM
In my area all the spray companies do a terrible job and there are weeds everywhere its pretty bad.

greendoctor
02-12-2011, 05:31 PM
What kind of weeds? In a lawn, I have no excuses for broadleaf weeds given the new chemicals available. There is much more that can be done other than spot spraying with Three-Way even in st augustine.

abrightday
02-12-2011, 07:40 PM
What kind of weeds? In a lawn, I have no excuses for broadleaf weeds given the new chemicals available. There is much more that can be done other than spot spraying with Three-Way even in st augustine.

So which of the new chemicals for St. Augustine would you recommend? Mansion, Celsius, what
www.YourLandscapePro.com?

greendoctor
02-12-2011, 08:25 PM
So which of the new chemicals for St. Augustine would you recommend? Mansion, Celsius, what
www.YourLandscapePro.com?

For a lot of the hard to kill broadleaves, nothing beats Mansion. I know many people in the business do not like to use Mansion because it requires a precision in application that is not normal for them. It is also a slow acting product. I use Quicksilver to speed up foliar damage from an application. Another issue is the fact that it is another product that will degrade if mixed and stored. I never keep backpacks or hand cans with mixed products.

Grassy weeds can be controlled with Celsius, Image or Revolver. I personally use a mix of Image + Revolver as an MSMA replacement that can also be applied to st augustine. Do not apply this to bahia or seashore paspalum.

abrightday
02-12-2011, 08:29 PM
Thanks for the imput, I have started using mansion, what rate do you use in a 3 gallon back pack sprayer, spot treating?

greendoctor
02-12-2011, 08:39 PM
Well, how much area does three gallons cover? I apply the equivalent of 0.5 oz per acre in 40-80 gallons per acre. I do not spot spray. Reason is, by the time I am managing the lawn, there are more than a few weeds. Nothing seems more crazy to me than spot treating a lawn full of weeds when the lawn is only 2,000 sq ft. It takes less time for me to set up my hand held boom and spray the whole thing than it does to spray each individual weed.

Ric
02-12-2011, 08:40 PM
For a lot of the hard to kill broadleaves, nothing beats Mansion. I know many people in the business do not like to use Mansion because it requires a precision in application that is not normal for them. It is also a slow acting product. I use Quicksilver to speed up foliar damage from an application. Another issue is the fact that it is another product that will degrade if mixed and stored. I never keep backpacks or hand cans with mixed products.

Grassy weeds can be controlled with Celsius, Image or Revolver. I personally use a mix of Image + Revolver as an MSMA replacement that can also be applied to st augustine. Do not apply this to bahia or seashore paspalum.

Green

Revolver is not labeled for St Augustine Turf. Celsius had been the biggest over hyped disappointment in the last 10 years. Even keeping a 6 pH and using the mixed product in the first 4 hours I can't control Crab Grass. I get better Knock down with Dimension a pre emerge.

greendoctor
02-12-2011, 09:04 PM
Both the DOA and Bayer confirm that Revolver may be applied at the applicator's risk to st augustine. From the label:Other warm season turfgrass and their cultivars may be tolerant to Revolver Herbicide, however, tolerance testing should be done prior to use. IOW, if I fry a lawn, it is my problem, in fact such that my liability policy does not cover such an incident. Would I try this on a lawn that is going through a fertilizer blackout and irrigation ban? Hell no. The only warm season turf types that will not tolerate Revolver are bahia, centipede, and seashore paspalum.

I have the same problems with crabgrass in warm season turf. I get to deal with crab that has turned perennial. It has been there for a long time. No such thing as frost to kill it. Celsius has not been consistent on all variants of crabgrass. I normally remove crabgrass using an Image/Revolver mix followed by a Celsius/Revolver mix 30 days later. Even in bermuda and zoysia lawns. Drive is illegal here. If your spray water pH is 6, that is acidic for a sulfonylurea herbicide. I like 7 or 7.5. Minerals in water other than sodium or potassium can interfere with herbicide efficacy as well. If the water is really bad, that could mean filling with RO water.

Applying Dimension as an early post for crabgrass is on the label. I have tried it and it does work. With the obvious benefit of preventing the seeds from recolonizing the area.

Ric
02-12-2011, 09:12 PM
Both the DOA and Bayer confirm that Revolver may be applied at the applicator's risk to st augustine. From the label:Other warm season turfgrass and their cultivars may be tolerant to Revolver Herbicide, however, tolerance testing should be done prior to use. IOW, if I fry a lawn, it is my problem, in fact such that my liability policy does not cover such an incident. Would I try this on a lawn that is going through a fertilizer blackout and irrigation ban? Hell no. The only warm season turf types that will not tolerate Revolver are bahia, centipede, and seashore paspalum.

I have the same problems with crabgrass in warm season turf. I get to deal with crab that has turned perennial. It has been there for a long time. No such thing as frost to kill it. Celsius has not been consistent on all variants of crabgrass. I normally remove crabgrass using an Image/Revolver mix followed by a Celsius/Revolver mix 30 days later. Even in bermuda and zoysia lawns. Drive is illegal here. If your spray water pH is 6, that is acidic for a sulfonylurea herbicide. I like 7 or 7.5. Minerals in water other than sodium or potassium can interfere with herbicide efficacy as well. If the water is really bad, that could mean filling with RO water.

Applying Dimension as an early post for crabgrass is on the label. I have tried it and it does work. With the obvious benefit of preventing the seeds from recolonizing the area.


Green

It still doesn't get Carpet grass or the 3 kinds of crab grass. Torpedo Grass and Bermuda grass are two other nuisance grassy weeds that invade St Augustine. Once again these take Extra special handling to control. Gregory told the tale and I can and do control all of these Grassy weeds in St Augustine with Legally labelled products.

tallrick
02-13-2011, 10:57 AM
If st augustine is being invaded by bermuda I see that as an improvement. Torpedo grass is horrible but only seems to take over wet areas where lawn grasses do not grow well anyway.

tallrick
02-18-2011, 11:07 AM
Someone today reminded me that common bermuda grass is called "devil grass" around here. At a friend's nursery it seems to get into potted plants and require hand-pulling. They have been spreading it around with the skid steer because it seems that everywhere it tears up the ground new bermuda grass grows. The only place st augustine seems to hold its own is under the black olive trees out front.

fl-landscapes
02-18-2011, 03:11 PM
Someone today reminded me that common bermuda grass is called "devil grass" around here. At a friend's nursery it seems to get into potted plants and require hand-pulling. They have been spreading it around with the skid steer because it seems that everywhere it tears up the ground new bermuda grass grows. The only place st augustine seems to hold its own is under the black olive trees out front.

even more reason to use bermuda as a turf grass.....its tough stuff!!

JohnnyCW
02-27-2011, 11:26 PM
I've had good success with Celsius. Maybe I'm just lucky. Takes a little time and some crab grasses require a little more attention but no worries about turf damage and it even does a decent job keeping sedges at bay. I still rely on Sedghammer for those lawns where sedge is more than just scattered.

greendoctor
02-28-2011, 02:00 AM
I've had good success with Celsius. Maybe I'm just lucky. Takes a little time and some crab grasses require a little more attention but no worries about turf damage and it even does a decent job keeping sedges at bay. I still rely on Sedghammer for those lawns where sedge is more than just scattered.

How are you applying the Celsius. By some accounts it is a worthless product. For me, it has stepped up where MSMA left off.

JohnnyCW
02-28-2011, 09:28 AM
It can be tedious but I only apply with a pump sprayer. If I've got maybe 5,000 SF or less and I'm rehabbing from somebody else's neglect, I'll cover the entire lawn with just the pump sprayer. Four weeks later I evaluate for a second round. A NI surfactant is a must.

oxk18
03-01-2011, 04:52 PM
Atrazine is Rup....if you don't have cert. license. you can not buy and use.
atrazine 2.5 gal is $69.95 free shipping...

But, even no license holder can use atrazine...for st.aug.

atrazine for st.aug..<--- you can use ..no license needed.
qt --$15.95
2.5 gal $59.95...

you can buy at Pestrong.com.

Ric
03-01-2011, 05:08 PM
Atrazine is Rup....if you don't have cert. license. you can not buy and use.
atrazine 2.5 gal is $69.95 free shipping...

But, even no license holder can use atrazine...for st.aug.

atrazine for st.aug..<--- you can use ..no license needed.
qt --$15.95
2.5 gal $59.95...

you can buy at Pestrong.com.

OXK

I hope you understand the RUP Atrazine and GUP Atrazine anyone can Buy are two totally different percentage of Actives

fl-landscapes
03-01-2011, 05:31 PM
How are you applying the Celsius. By some accounts it is a worthless product. For me, it has stepped up where MSMA left off.

So celsius is working well for you greendoctor? If so, for what weeds. Saying it is taking the place of msma makes me think you are getting grassy weed control??? From what I hear most are saying it doesnt get grassy weeds as advertised. What are your experiences?

greendoctor
03-02-2011, 03:34 AM
Celsius works very well for me. However, I am applying it to turf and weeds that are well irrigated, well fertilized, growing vigorously. If you have been following my commentary on replacing MSMA, I utilize the label permitted tank mix of Revolver and Celsius when treating bermuda, st augustine or zoysia. That serves to remove goosegrass, a huge problem in my state. The way I apply Celsius approaches research precision. It gets sprayed through either a single fan tip or a boom calibrated to apply a gallon of spray per 1000 sq ft at 40 PSI. I do not use a hand can or other manual sprayer for application. It is all through constant pressure engine driven equipment that will keep the mixture very well agitated. I also will not mix more product than I can apply in an hour, No such thing as me mixing 100-200 gallons to use through the week or a hand sprayer to "spot spray" weeds. I also add 0.5% MSO to the solution. In my area weeds are hardened off by the time I am dealing with them. So that does not cause the weeds to burn before the chemicals have translocated. On the crabgrass variants that are not affected by Celsius at all, those are affected by a Revolver/Image tank mix. There are several lawns that I have cleaned up by first applying Revolver/Image, then Revolver/Celsius 30 days later. I can justify this due to not just having one patch of crabgrass in an entire lawn. I think you would cringe if you saw what many lawns in Honolulu look like. They resemble a weed collection.

Florida Gardener
03-02-2011, 05:58 PM
Green

So the St. Aug lawns you manage that have big CG infestations you are able to chemically repair w/out re-infestation??

fl-landscapes
03-02-2011, 06:16 PM
Green

So the St. Aug lawns you manage that have big CG infestations you are able to chemically repair w/out re-infestation??



there are always "re-infestations" unless using pre-m sometimes even using pre. What gave you the impression he treats and doesnt have to re-treat? Not busting chops I just dont see where he said that.

Florida Gardener
03-02-2011, 07:18 PM
I know he retreats just curious how effective he is when getting rid of a lot of CG patches and getting a desirable fill in.
Posted via Mobile Device

fl-landscapes
03-02-2011, 09:51 PM
I know he retreats just curious how effective he is when getting rid of a lot of CG patches and getting a desirable fill in.
Posted via Mobile Device

I think what his experience is, would be the same as anyones. The fill in would have a few factors to determine success or failure. First depending on how large an area and how thick the crab grass is. If it is late stage growth that has smothered a large area of the desirable turf, likely you would need to plug or sod the area to keep not only the cg but the spurge and any other oportunistic weeds that will fill in a large areas quicker than your desirable turf. The turf type of the desirable grass also would make a difference. Bermuda would fill in and out compete weeds far better than zoysia. So a similar size area of cg killed in a bermuda lawn may not need plugs or sod to out compete the weeds where the same size area in a zoysia lawn may need plugs or sod to fill in the area. Now thats warm season turf. Cool season would probably glyhosate the whole area and re-seed it in fall. All cases should have a cost benefit analysis. Sometimes it would be more expensive in materials and labor to try and supress weeds instead of biting the bullet and plugging or sodding. Michael put it well recently "the high cost of a low bid" or something like that. Remember cg produces millions of viable seeds and can stay viable in the soil for up to 15 years

greendoctor
03-03-2011, 02:25 AM
Any lawn that is on a chemical renovation protocol, is fertilized with up to 1 lb N, 1/2 lb K, micronutrients and P dependent on the results of a soil test. This is applied as a foliar/liquid up to once every 14 days. Irrigation: I have the keys to the controllers, etc. If the "yard boy", property owner, or "landscaper" thinks he is smarter than me concerning the adjustment and scheduling of the irrigation system, they can figure out how to reclaim the turf area themselves. In other words they are fired. I also will not touch a lawn that is not mowed at appropriate heights and with the proper machinery.

Now that the ground rules are established, then it is time to apply the suitable herbicide treatments. It is amazing how well something like Celsius or Image works when the lawn is maintained with the correct cultural practices. I do follow up applications 30 days after the initial treatment. Just because every single weed is not dead 21 days after spraying I do not call the treatment a failure. In a warm season renovation, I use non root pruning herbicides in the first 2 months. Simazine and Gallery do not cause excessive damage to grasses trying to send out stolons. When the turf is a little more established, around 3 months later, I will apply the medium rate of Dimension. I have seen gaps 1 ft across or larger covered up within 6 months provided the lawn stays on my fertilization program, the irrigation is maintained, and the remaining lawn is mowed correctly.

Many of you are thinking that it would be easier and cheaper to nuke the whole lawn and re sod or re plug.

Hybrid Bermuda $2.00-3.25/sq ft
St Augustine $2.50-3.00/sq ft.
Centipede up to $5.00/ sq ft.
Zoysia $3.25-5.00/sq ft.
Seashore Paspalum $1.00-3.25/ sq ft.

Those prices do not include transportation and labor to install sod or plugs cut from sod.

Common Bermuda can be seeded with a hydromulcher for around $400/acre. Problem with that is the existing weeds will grow with the new grass, creating more expense to control those weeds.

There is also no guarantee short of a Vapam or Basamid fumigation of the site concerning existing weeds. Fumigations are not allowed in residential areas.

fl-landscapes
03-03-2011, 09:18 AM
Any lawn that is on a chemical renovation protocol, is fertilized with up to 1 lb N, 1/2 lb K, micronutrients and P dependent on the results of a soil test. This is applied as a foliar/liquid up to once every 14 days. Irrigation: I have the keys to the controllers, etc. If the "yard boy", property owner, or "landscaper" thinks he is smarter than me concerning the adjustment and scheduling of the irrigation system, they can figure out how to reclaim the turf area themselves. In other words they are fired. I also will not touch a lawn that is not mowed at appropriate heights and with the proper machinery.

Now that the ground rules are established, then it is time to apply the suitable herbicide treatments. It is amazing how well something like Celsius or Image works when the lawn is maintained with the correct cultural practices. I do follow up applications 30 days after the initial treatment. Just because every single weed is not dead 21 days after spraying I do not call the treatment a failure. In a warm season renovation, I use non root pruning herbicides in the first 2 months. Simazine and Gallery do not cause excessive damage to grasses trying to send out stolons. When the turf is a little more established, around 3 months later, I will apply the medium rate of Dimension. I have seen gaps 1 ft across or larger covered up within 6 months provided the lawn stays on my fertilization program, the irrigation is maintained, and the remaining lawn is mowed correctly.

Many of you are thinking that it would be easier and cheaper to nuke the whole lawn and re sod or re plug.

Hybrid Bermuda $2.00-3.25/sq ft
St Augustine $2.50-3.00/sq ft.
Centipede up to $5.00/ sq ft.
Zoysia $3.25-5.00/sq ft.
Seashore Paspalum $1.00-3.25/ sq ft.

Those prices do not include transportation and labor to install sod or plugs cut from sod.

Common Bermuda can be seeded with a hydromulcher for around $400/acre. Problem with that is the existing weeds will grow with the new grass, creating more expense to control those weeds.

There is also no guarantee short of a Vapam or Basamid fumigation of the site concerning existing weeds. Fumigations are not allowed in residential areas.

Im moving to hawaii and starting a sod business....holy molly!!!

Ric
03-03-2011, 10:37 AM
Im moving to hawaii and starting a sod business....holy molly!!!

SO SOD SOUNDS SUPER IN SAMOA


Current sod prices here in Florida have drop big time with the economy. Patch jobs went anywhere from a $ 1.00 a Sq ft to $ 1.50 for small jobs, now maybe as low as $ 0.75 sq ft. Larger job total rip out and replace were going for $ 0.75 are now going as low as $0.50 a sq ft.

However I think a total Cost of Living comparison needs to me made here. I had a friend who is a Civil Engineer and moved to the The biggest Island to work on a military base of some kind. He moved back after about 5 years. Cost of living had him broke and his $ 200K house wasn't much more than a shack.

fl-landscapes
03-03-2011, 10:56 AM
SO SOD SOUNDS SUPER IN SAMOA


Current sod prices here in Florida have drop big time with the economy. Patch jobs went anywhere from a $ 1.00 a Sq ft to $ 1.50 for small jobs, now maybe as low as $ 0.75 sq ft. Larger job total rip out and replace were going for $ 0.75 are now going as low as $0.50 a sq ft.

However I think a total Cost of Living comparison needs to me made here. I had a friend who is a Civil Engineer and moved to the The biggest Island to work on a military base of some kind. He moved back after about 5 years. Cost of living had him broke and his $ 200K house wasn't much more than a shack.

I know its all relevant, it was just my poor attempt at being funny.