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View Full Version : Chicken Manure based products for rotary spreaders?....Compost Topdressing Lite?


Exact Rototilling
02-02-2011, 11:35 PM
End of last season I told all my customers, that have me apply fertilizer, that I'm ONLY going to offer products that contain organic matter to breakdown thatch and are beneficial to soil microbe activity. This is the product I started using: http://www.therichlawncompany.com/products/fertilizers/pro-rich-turf-food/

One of my mowing clients said one of the chicken manure products she used in the past encouraged mushrooms in her lawn. Any validity to this claim?

At this point I'm not interested or set up for compost tea since my customer will think WT...? I need to ease them into healthier lawn care gradually.

Any suggestions on other products to use that can be cranked out in a rotary spreader reliably?

knox gsl
02-02-2011, 11:45 PM
Growing up in Alabama most farmers would spread chicken **** in the fall after harvest, or in pastures in the summer. (be prepared for the smell). It was done with a 10 ton truck that had a live floor feeding a broadcast spreader in the back. The material is very dry and dusty at that point. Another thing to remember is that depending on the area of the country the material is coming from may vary as to what bedding is mixed with it. Where I'm from they used peanut hulls, but any plentiful organic material in the area its from will most likely be used. I guess that if I were going to try using it in a rotary spreader I would try it out in a salt speader as it may be a little thick to go through a fert spreader. I hope this helps, and get a face mask.

phasthound
02-03-2011, 10:28 AM
End of last season I told all my customers, that have me apply fertilizer, that I'm ONLY going to offer products that contain organic matter to breakdown thatch and are beneficial to soil microbe activity. This is the product I started using: http://www.therichlawncompany.com/products/fertilizers/pro-rich-turf-food/

One of my mowing clients said one of the chicken manure products she used in the past encouraged mushrooms in her lawn. Any validity to this claim?

At this point I'm not interested or set up for compost tea since my customer will think WT...? I need to ease them into healthier lawn care gradually.

Any suggestions on other products to use that can be cranked out in a rotary spreader reliably?

How many pallets do you use per round?

ICT Bill
02-03-2011, 11:00 AM
also look around your area for different agriculture practices that produce waste, ethanol production often will produce a by product called distillers grain which is the left overs of the process and is full of great nutrients as well as N, it is typically 6% N

often you can find it bagged in feed stores, in bulk it runs about $250 a ton and comes out of a spreader pretty well

corn gluten meal is often a byproduct from ethanol too, it is a great fertilizer

Marcos
02-03-2011, 02:14 PM
End of last season I told all my customers, that have me apply fertilizer, that I'm ONLY going to offer products that contain organic matter to breakdown thatch and are beneficial to soil microbe activity. This is the product I started using: http://www.therichlawncompany.com/products/fertilizers/pro-rich-turf-food/

One of my mowing clients said one of the chicken manure products she used in the past encouraged mushrooms in her lawn. Any validity to this claim?

At this point I'm not interested or set up for compost tea since my customer will think WT...? I need to ease them into healthier lawn care gradually.

Any suggestions on other products to use that can be cranked out in a rotary spreader reliably?

Yes, it's possible that chicken manure product may have spawned mushrooms, especially if it had been applied too heavily or unevenly in spots. Other factors involved include soil type(s) & soil porosity & precipitation.
Potentially any organic-based product will result in mushroom outbreaks a few weeks later. Purists generally will smile at it & just rake them over, or leave them alone. (They're harmless.) Folks that're generally buying organic lawn or landscape care just to be trendy & " green" would probably be the ones likely to call & complain about mushroom outbreaks! :rolleyes:
:laugh:
If these folks are not already getting it, sell them core aeration & make sure it's done thoroughly ONLY when the soil's moist enough for tine penetration.

If you're having issues with material flowing through your spreader consider biting the bullet & investing in a Prizelawn Bigfoot HVO (high volume output) spreader. They're made in the U.S.A! :usflag: http://www.psbcompany.com/spreaders.php

I've seen Bigfoots & other spreaders outfitted with hopper vibrators & weather-proof batteries for use with ice melts. I'm sure that would work for tough-to-disperse materials like corn gluten meal (CGM), which is not only a fertilizer but also a pre-emergent.

Some other products that can be run through rotory spreaders like the Bigfoot :
(plant-based, approx analyses)

1) distiller's grains 4-2-2
2) soybean meal 6-1-2
3) cottonseed meal 6-2-2
4) alfalfa meal 3-1-3
5) corn meal 2-0-0
6) canola meal 6-2-1
7) CGM 9-0-0

(non plant-based)
1) blood meal 13-2-1 be VERY VERY careful in warm weather!!! :cry:

What are my personal favorites? Distiller's grains made a big spash in 2009 and 2010 in terms of cost-effectiveness. A diversified program for the soil is what our program promotes, so we generally use DG, soybean meal, cottonseed meal, alfalfa meal &/or finished compost in a rotation 2X to 3X / yr to maximize benefits.
The proper selling, timing & implentation of core aeration cannot be under-emphasized.

Kiril
02-03-2011, 02:28 PM
Potentially any organic-based product will result in mushroom outbreaks a few weeks later.

I have been applying compost for nearly 2 decades and have never seen this occur.

Marcos
02-03-2011, 03:15 PM
I have been applying compost for nearly 2 decades and have never seen this occur.

Oh geez.... SORRY!, I forgot this forum had...(ahem) "Kiril"... scanning it for any potential error
And of course Kiril resides in beautiful California, the land of milk & honey. The land the fictional Joad family thought was "paradise".
No! Mushrooms wouldn't DARE spawn after an organic-based app in California. And Exact, if you were to go to California, I'm sure Kiril would try to assure you your &#!+ wouldn't stink there, either! :laugh:

Here.... I'll correct myself, just for you "Kiril":
Potentially (the mis-application or over-application of) any organic-based product may result in mushroom outbreaks a few weeks later.

Happy now?!? :hammerhead:

NattyLawn
02-03-2011, 03:36 PM
Oh geez.... SORRY!, I forgot this forum had...(ahem) "Kiril"... scanning it for any potential error
And of course Kiril resides in beautiful California, the land of milk & honey. The land the fictional Joad family thought was "paradise".
No! Mushrooms wouldn't DARE spawn after an organic-based app in California. And Exact, if you were to go to California, I'm sure Kiril would try to assure you your &#!+ wouldn't stink there, either! :laugh:

Here.... I'll correct myself, just for you "Kiril":
Potentially (the mis-application or over-application of) any organic-based product may result in mushroom outbreaks a few weeks later.

Happy now?!? :hammerhead:

Why would an "organic based app" lead to mushrooms vs an organic app? If you have the right conditions for mushrooms, the source shouldn't matter.

Exact Rototilling
02-03-2011, 06:41 PM
How many pallets do you use per round?

I only put down maybe 8 bags of fert last season. Reason is the big companies can put it down cheap synthetic fert for less than I can buy it for and then broadcast it all over the walks and half of the driveways then pull their chess board arrangement of safety cone in front and in back of the vehicle then split to the next house just down the street. Same type of Co. with the picture of the Dalmatian on the truck to dupe customers to think that all their products are safe for fido and small children. :nono:

Lots of demand here for power racking & dethatching in my area......I do those as well but my minimum is going up to $120 for even a tiny property...... I'm trying to promote Spring and fall aeration combos as the best value vs. destructive power raking along with organic matter fert but only for those who are willing to pay for it. payup

Most of my customers apply fertilizer themselves and are using Scott's products or some 28+ N synthetic fert and then they are over watering and wonder why they think they need power raking and dethatching every year and they regularly mow their cool season grass shorter than 2" all season long because they don't like shaggy looking grass.

I've tried to be the healthy turf evangelist. Just going to have several handouts to drastically cut down on the chit chat during aeration estimates and post aeration lawn care tips.

It is frankly hard enough to sell customer on aeration's as being effective even though my premium aeration's are at almost double the plugs in a single pass per square foot vs. the rental machines and those performed by the other Companies. An aeration is an aeration right? No a double pass really is better than a single pass....better yet my Plugr 850's will come really close if not match a double pass from most other aerators.

I'll be looking over the Bigfoot spreaders [I use an Earthway now] and the other products mentioned.

Thanks for all the input. :waving:

dishboy
02-03-2011, 07:50 PM
Your mix is still a synthetic bridge so I would not bang on TGCL to hard as they actually do offer a straight organic fert. I see mushrooms with some Organic Ferts more than others when conditions are right as rain and the right temps regardless of what Kiril thinks , comparing Idaho to California really holds no water.

starry night
02-03-2011, 08:22 PM
So, dishboy, you apply organic input. Then there is abundant rain or irrigation, and there is the right temp THEREFORE mushrooms that appear are due to your organic input?

dishboy
02-03-2011, 08:30 PM
So, dishboy, you apply organic input. Then there is abundant rain or irrigation, and there is the right temp THEREFORE mushrooms that appear are due to your organic input?

Go re read my post. Is that what I said.

starry night
02-03-2011, 08:44 PM
Go re read my post. Is that what I said.

I guess I'm not following. Could you rephrase what you said?
(I'm not trying to be argumentative.)

Kiril
02-03-2011, 11:09 PM
I see mushrooms with some Organic Ferts more than others when conditions are right as rain and the right temps regardless of what Kiril thinks , comparing Idaho to California really holds no water.

Well, that is true to a certain extent. In any event, now you see why I had a problem with the blanket statement from Marcos .... right? Just because you put something organic on your lawn does not necessarily lead to mushrooms. If that were the case, mulch mowing would also lead to mushrooms ..... correct?

Marcos
02-03-2011, 11:32 PM
Well, that is true to a certain extent. In any event, now you see why I had a problem with the blanket statement from Marcos .... right? Just because you put something organic on your lawn does not necessarily lead to mushrooms. If that were the case, mulch mowing would also lead to mushrooms ..... correct?

Like I posted earlier other variables are involved like soil type & porosity.
Yes I would say EXTREME amounts of mulch created by mowing might trigger mushroom spawning, as would an excessive, decomposing thatch layer.

Kiril
02-04-2011, 12:07 AM
Like I posted earlier other variables are involved like soil type & porosity.

Which was then followed by an inappropriate generic blanket statement. Seriously .... do you think it is beneficial for people to walk away from your post thinking they will get mushroom growth if they use organics on their lawn .... especially given it may or may not happen? That is what you said. Furthermore, can you explain how soil type and porosity contribute to mushroom growth which occurs on surface applied organic matter just so everyone is clear?

Yes I would say EXTREME amounts of mulch created by mowing might trigger mushroom spawning, as would an excessive, decomposing thatch layer.

How extreme? 1" blanket of clippings/thatch .... 2" ..... 3" ..... Let's be specific here for those people who just can't handle seeing mushrooms decomposing organic matter.

Something to consider. I just recently applied a 3"+ layer of compost over a fairly large area ..... no mushrooms to speak of to date (nearly 2 months later) .... yet there were some scattered mushrooms colonies before I applied it. Now one might think if there were mushrooms before, then adding all that organic matter would result in a mushroom explosion ..... according to you .... and yet it didn't.

starry night
02-04-2011, 08:57 AM
Let's not lose sight of Exact Roto's original statement-- that he had a customer mention to him she once had mushroom growth from a chicken manure product. So we can assume he wants to know what to tell such a customer; that it's possible sometimes; that it's possible but rarely; if it does occur, his mowing will grind the mushrooms. ????? He wants to display some knowledge by giving an experienced response. So, those with experience with this, tell him what he might say.

phasthound
02-04-2011, 08:57 AM
Which was then followed by an inappropriate generic blanket statement. Seriously .... do you think it is beneficial for people to walk away from your post thinking they will get mushroom growth if they use organics on their lawn .... especially given it may or may not happen? That is what you said. Furthermore, can you explain how soil type and porosity contribute to mushroom growth which occurs on surface applied organic matter just so everyone is clear?



How extreme? 1" blanket of clippings/thatch .... 2" ..... 3" ..... Let's be specific here for those people who just can't handle seeing mushrooms decomposing organic matter.

Something to consider. I just recently applied a 3"+ layer of compost over a fairly large area ..... no mushrooms to speak of to date (nearly 2 months later) .... yet there were some scattered mushrooms colonies before I applied it. Now one might think if there were mushrooms before, then adding all that organic matter would result in a mushroom explosion ..... according to you .... and yet it didn't.

How is Marcos statement, Yes, it's possible that chicken manure product may have spawned mushrooms, especially if it had been applied too heavily or unevenly in spots. Other factors involved include soil type(s) & soil porosity & precipitation.
Potentially any organic-based product will result in mushroom outbreaks a few weeks later. "an inappropriate generic blanket statement" that says "adding all that organic matter would result in a mushroom explosion"?

Kiril
02-04-2011, 09:34 AM
Read the last sentence of your Marcos quote and you tell me.

dishboy
02-04-2011, 09:54 AM
I would think that composted organic material vs non composted/dehydrated chicken manure is going to yield different results as to mushrooms appearing in turf. It seems that mushroom growers are actually using manures as a growing medium or food for growing mushrooms. It may be that chicken manure is a very good fungal food. Knowing the climate of northern Idaho, mushrooms are not going to need a lot of encouragement and actually might be a sign of a healthier lawn.

phasthound
02-04-2011, 10:21 AM
Read the last sentence of your Marcos quote and you tell me.


Obviously I read it, that's why I'm asking you to tell me.

Kiril
02-04-2011, 10:27 AM
I would think that composted organic material vs non composted/dehydrated chicken manure is going to yield different results as to mushrooms appearing in turf. It seems that mushroom growers are actually using manures as a growing medium or food for growing mushrooms. It may be that chicken manure is a very good fungal food. Knowing the climate of northern Idaho, mushrooms are not going to need a lot of encouragement and actually might be a sign of a healthier lawn.

The C:N of the material will make a difference, the higher the ratio the better chance you have for mushroom growth.

Kiril
02-04-2011, 10:39 AM
Obviously I read it, that's why I'm asking you to tell me.

OK Barry .... I guess it is time for another lesson in communication since you insist on being obtuse.

Yes, it's possible that chicken manure product may have spawned mushrooms, especially if it had been applied too heavily or unevenly in spots. Other factors involved include soil type(s) & soil porosity & precipitation.
Potentially any organic-based product will result in mushroom outbreaks a few weeks later.

The green text is the answer to the question in post #1. The blue text is a completely different line of thought, and the red text is the problem. Now tell me Barry .... if I apply organic matter, will it result in a mushroom outbreak? As I noted in my initial response, in my experience it never has.

Do you think it is productive and/or helpful for readers of this thread to walk away thinking if they apply organic matter on their lawn it will result in a "mushroom outbreak" a few weeks later?

phasthound
02-04-2011, 11:04 AM
OK Barry .... I guess it is time for another lesson in communication since you insist on being obtuse.


Kiril, Your comment above is annoyingly insensitive

The green text is the answer to the question in post #1. The blue text is a completely different line of thought, and the red text is the problem. Now tell me Barry .... if I apply organic matter, will it result in a mushroom outbreak? As I noted in my initial response, in my experience it never has.

Do you think it is productive and/or helpful for readers of this thread to walk away thinking if they apply organic matter on their lawn it will result in a "mushroom outbreak" a few weeks later?

He said Potentially any organic-based product will result in mushroom outbreaks a few weeks later.
I think the readers of this thread are smart enough to understand the meaning of that word. Don't you?

Kiril
02-04-2011, 11:22 AM
He said Potentially any organic-based product will result in mushroom outbreaks a few weeks later.
I think the readers of this thread are smart enough to understand the meaning of that word. Don't you?

In this sentence "potentially" refers to the material not the result. It is pretty damn clear Barry, and if that is how I read it, do you think it is possible someone else might also read it that way? What is your problem anyhow? He already corrected it ... even if the correction came with a healthy amount of insult .... which BTW you didn't have a problem with .... go figure.

You (and others) may not like me very much for wanting information on public forums to be accurate and clear, however many people use these forums for information and advice .... and if I have to be the bad guy for the small part I play in keeping the information accurate and clear then so be it.

Marcos
02-04-2011, 02:45 PM
You (and others) may not like me very much for wanting information on public forums to be accurate and clear, however many people use these forums for information and advice .... and if I have to be the bad guy for the small part I play in keeping the information accurate and clear then so be it.

I don't care for you so much Kiril because you come across as so frickin' anal a lot of the time. :cry:

There are lots of folks out there (like you) who like to largely rely upon data, references & charts.
That's fine for them & you.
There are folks out there (like yours truly) who like to largely rely upon years of experience and the trial & error that comes with that, the word-of-mouth from local & regional peers in the field and their experiences.
That's fine for folks like me.

I surely didn't mean to ruffle any feathers by jumping into this discussion. In our experiences breakouts of mushrooms have gone hand & hand with piles of decomposing compost...and sporadically with uneven, or over-applications of virtually any application of OM, be it compost or grain-based meals. Everyone & their brother who's been outside & had a bit of fresh air in their lifetimes knows mushroom outbreaks occur over the top of decaying tree root systems year in & year out. This is common sense stuff. Hey Kiril maybe you should turn off that computer, go outside & get some fresh air!:waving:

From the perspective of soil nutrition for the betterment of all plant material growing above it (turf), we have come to visualize every client & prospects' yard as potentially a 2-dimensional compost pile.
What?!?:confused: A compost pile amidst the turf!! You're crazy Marcos!! :nono:

No, not really. :) This is about everybody's grandma & grandpa's "everything in moderation" lecture you remember hearing over & over again while growing up. Only this time this "moderation" is all about properly guaging the volume of OM placed on the surface during different points of the growing season, so that enough time is present in between to adequately allow natural decomposition processes.

Wow, Kiril, A 3" layer of compost at once?! See, that's something we could never do here in Ohio. That would be three dimensional composting! What kind of CA 'superturf' did you slop that on top of? Some kind of clover?

Of course we can't core aerate every application of meal & compost into the soil every time we're there. We'd sure like to, though! That's why we refer to it as "2 dimensional composting". Folks around here make/have pretty much money but not that much. Even if we could, only about 60% give or take have reliable irrigation systems and summertime core aeration around here is a really bad idea anyway because of rapid-fire dessication.

Kiril
02-04-2011, 03:30 PM
There are lots of folks out there (like you) who like to largely rely upon data, references & charts.

I don't "rely" on them Marcos, I use data and information obtained by the scientific community and use it in my daily business, correlate what others have seen and discovered to what I see and discover. I choose to use that information instead of ignoring it, learn from those who have gone before me and who are far more intelligent than I am. In contrast, apparently you and others prefer to ignore all that, blindly go about their business making decisions based on blind assumptions and hearsay. Now if that is how you or anyone else wants to run their business fine by me, but don't expect to come onto a public forum and expect your "facts" to stand without question.

There are folks out there (like yours truly) who like to largely rely upon years of experience and the trial & error that comes with that, the word-of-mouth from local & regional peers in the field and their experiences.
That's fine for folks like me.

I have been working in this field for nearly 20 years. I believe that is longer than you have been doing it if I am not mistaken. So guess what you can do with your insinuation.

Everyone & their brother who's been outside & had a bit of fresh air in their lifetimes knows mushroom outbreaks occur over the top of decaying tree root systems year in & year out. This is common sense stuff.

Bingo Marcos ..... so if you see mushrooms do you leap to the conclusion that is due to an application of compost/organics or perhaps due to something else? You wanna know what I do if I need to know? I determine the cause if at all possible ... I don't leap to conclusions or assume anything. Unfortunately you (and others) like to assume many things ... then come on here and state these assumptions/opinions as facts and expect everyone to also accept it as fact. Then when someone comes along that knows better ..... what happens? Yes .... the children play their petty games.

Wow, Kiril, A 3" layer of compost at once?! See, that's something we could never do here in Ohio. That would be three dimensional composting! What kind of CA 'superturf' did you slop that on top of? Some kind of clover?

Do you live in a 2 dimensional world? All applications are 3 dimensional Marcos, although you are free to call it 2-dimensional if you want. :rolleyes:

And FYI, contrary to what you might believe, typically landscapes contain more than turf. No one in their right mind would apply 3+ inches of compost on turf .... unless your intention is to kill it. Did it ever occur to you that the application I was referring to was somewhere other than turf?

Of course we can't core aerate every application of meal & compost into the soil every time we're there. We'd sure like to, though! That's why we refer to it as "2 dimensional composting". Folks around here make/have pretty much money but not that much. Even if we could, only about 60% give or take have reliable irrigation systems and summertime core aeration around here is a really bad idea anyway because of rapid-fire dessication.

If you don't mind marcos .... can you explain what "rapid-fire dessication" is, or is this another one of your made up phrases?