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wanabe
02-05-2011, 02:27 PM
Anyone ever dug a basment with a CTL? Im interested if it can be done or not? Hole will be about 40'x50', and will be only be about 5 foot deep due to the lot. Ground is nothing but clay, no rock or anything like that. How many yards of loose material am I looking at? Thanks

AdvLandscapeLLC
02-05-2011, 03:02 PM
can it be done yes, will it be efficient nope! :usflag:

wanabe
02-05-2011, 03:04 PM
How much time am I looking at to do this? Using mt T300 and a 84 inch high back tooth bucket.

AdvLandscapeLLC
02-05-2011, 03:22 PM
your probably looking at 350-400 cubic yards with those dimensions unless my math is wrong, and depending on your bucket size which is maybe anywhere from 1\2 to 1 1\4 yard bucket. The speed of an excavator is quicker because of the time it takes to dig and dump on your spoil pile as opposed to a ctl that has to drive and transport the material to the spoil pile and also the excavator will break through stubborn soil easier than the ctl. Also its probably going to be easier to dig level with the excavator.
I do not have a lot of experience in this so hopefully someone who does this regularly could help you out better but that is just the stuff off the top of my head.:usflag:

ksss
02-05-2011, 03:40 PM
I used to dig a lot of these in the late 90's. There was a modular home craze at that time. Most were about 4.5 feet in the ground, with similiar dimensions some were a bit larger.

Digging conditions here are difficult, its all cobble rock. I used a 95XT with a 73" and 84" bucket depending on how difficult the dig. If I had the steel tracks on I used the 84 exclusively. When the ground was real hard I used the 73" with the Rezloh edge. That was when I found I could not be without that cutting edge.

Wheels and tracks changed the time it took but it usually took about 4.5 hours to ex it out and put it to grade.

If your all clay you should be able to knock that out even faster.

I loved digging those. Something to be said about showing up and digging a big hole in the ground. Nothing fancy just put it to grade add a couple feet for overdig an your done. I enjoyed doing those. The modular home people nearly all went out of business now so I have not done one in years.

Ozz
02-05-2011, 03:52 PM
I used to dig basements that size with track loaders. It's not fun, but it can be done. I would very much prefer to work that with an ex, but at 5', it should be pretty easy.

wanabe
02-05-2011, 04:07 PM
Thanks for the info. I think im going to tackle this with my T300 now. The hole will be for my own basment, so time is not a huge issue.

Dirtman2007
02-05-2011, 04:11 PM
I measured out about 2-3' bigger all the way around. With the swell factor of clay you're going to be looking at dang near 500 yards of dirt to take out. Does 500 yards stay on site? I'd keep a 100yards for backfill but the remaining will need to fine a new home. 400 yards is going to equal about 25 truck loads of dirt.

Tigerotor77W
02-05-2011, 04:12 PM
I don't have specifics for you, but in 2006 I dug a few holes that were about 3' deep, three or four times the length of a skid-steer, and about 1.5-2 buckets wide in about 30-45 minutes with a 257B. I'm not an operator so probably wasn't doing it all that quickly, but with a larger machine and a good operator it shouldn't be an issue. Just be sure you have a decent ramp out!

wanabe
02-05-2011, 04:42 PM
I measured out about 2-3' bigger all the way around. With the swell factor of clay you're going to be looking at dang near 500 yards of dirt to take out. Does 500 yards stay on site? I'd keep a 100yards for backfill but the remaining will need to fine a new home. 400 yards is going to equal about 25 truck loads of dirt.


Yep, its all going to stay on the 2 acre lot. Plan to do alot with the landscape so I will need every bit of it.

Birdhunter1
02-05-2011, 05:07 PM
Wanabe I just dig about the same thing this past fall with a T300, I live south of Murphysboro and have about the same dirt you described. The T300 I used was a rental and in need of a tune up of sorts but in a day I did it. actually what I had to do was level out an area that needed 8" taken out on one corner and 5' on the opposite corner, that was day 1. Day 2 and 3 (a few weeks after the house was in) I backfilled and went to do grade I leveled out an area about 1800' sq. ft. that was 4' on the high side and at grade on the other. Day 2 and 3 were with a T180. Also note that day 3 involved a tractor and box blade (which my dad was running) as well to grade the front yard.

So yes it can be done in a day, maybe a long day with a T300.

joes169
02-06-2011, 12:43 PM
I honestly think it's going to be a REAAAAAL long day to do it if it's a full 5' cut. A few other things to keep in mind:

- If your grade varies by more than an inch or 2, you may be looking at an additional concrete charge from the foundation guy, because his footings will require more concrete than he bid.

- If you have a fair amount of high spots, same thing, they won't bid pealing off a layer of clay as part of their job.

- I'm not sure how it's done where you are, but here, the center "hump" in the basement is raised up 3" higher than the footing dig, so there's only 5" of stone needed under the floor instead of 8". Hard to do with a CTL with an amount of accuracy.

All I'm getting at is that considering how little most excavators charge for the actual dig, you can burn the small savings up in material fairly quick. Not to mention, it's alot of wear & tear on a CTL. Good luck either way.

Stick Pro
02-06-2011, 03:20 PM
There was a time before excavators, track loaders were the machine to use. No problem getting the floors exact or getting it done in a timely fashion. Excavators has spoiled most operators these days, the same way between skid steers and ctls, everyone has to have a ctl to grade with now. You should have no problem with your t300 digging your basement, we have done it before many times here, and it does not take that long. Good luck, snap some pics so we can see your project.

AWJ Services
02-06-2011, 03:26 PM
Here we dig and then level for basement floor. Then the footer guys dig the footers out and pour them and then walls. Then we come back with gravel and fill to footer height and pour slab.

And yes I would do it with a skid steer.
If you can budget it a 5-6 ton excavator and a skid would make short work of it.

ksss
02-06-2011, 03:52 PM
We do things different here but the concept is the same. Its really not a big deal. Half a day and the hole is done.

AWJ Services
02-06-2011, 04:37 PM
Here one company does the hole. Another company does the footers. Another company does the walls. And then another company does the flat work. Then the original excavator usually backfills. It is a CF!!!!!!

ksss
02-06-2011, 04:45 PM
Here one company does the hole. Another company does the footers. Another company does the walls. And then another company does the flat work. Then the original excavator usually backfills. It is a CF!!!!!!


REALLY? Sometimes the flat work and wall guys are not the same, but most often they are. Here you usually have an excavator, and a concrete guy. The floor is flat throughout. Footings set on that. Plumbing is roughed in and the floor shot with gravel with shooter truck. Or after footings and walls are in floor is backfilled by excavator then the plumbing goes in. Not sure how you can mound in the middle when typically there are footings running through the center of it. Interesting.

wanabe
02-06-2011, 09:47 PM
I honestly think it's going to be a REAAAAAL long day to do it if it's a full 5' cut. A few other things to keep in mind:

- If your grade varies by more than an inch or 2, you may be looking at an additional concrete charge from the foundation guy, because his footings will require more concrete than he bid.

- If you have a fair amount of high spots, same thing, they won't bid pealing off a layer of clay as part of their job.

- I'm not sure how it's done where you are, but here, the center "hump" in the basement is raised up 3" higher than the footing dig, so there's only 5" of stone needed under the floor instead of 8". Hard to do with a CTL with an amount of accuracy.

All I'm getting at is that considering how little most excavators charge for the actual dig, you can burn the small savings up in material fairly quick. Not to mention, it's alot of wear & tear on a CTL. Good luck either way.

Well im going to be doing 100% of this, from the dirt work to the concrete. I have poured al least 100 basments in the past when I worked for another contractor. So I have been on the wall crew, and then the flatwork crew. I hope by now I can get it graded out close enough.

joes169
02-06-2011, 11:05 PM
Well im going to be doing 100% of this, from the dirt work to the concrete. I have poured al least 100 basments in the past when I worked for another contractor. So I have been on the wall crew, and then the flatwork crew. I hope by now I can get it graded out close enough.

I didn't realize that from your OP. I'd say go for it then. I'm actually a concrete & masonry contractor, and the reason I gave you those thoughts in the last post is because in 20+ years in this industry, I've seen them all many times. If for no other reason, I'd dig it myself because it was my own house. Best of luck to you.

BTW, what are you using for wall forms? Can you rent them in your area?

ioilyouin
02-06-2011, 11:12 PM
don't you have a 690?

wanabe
02-07-2011, 08:26 AM
don't you have a 690?


That machine has been gone for a year. Went to adjust the UC one day and found out there was nothing left to adjust. Needed new track chains so I decided to dump it rather than fix it. Put it in the trader for $39,900. Within 3 days, I had a check for $39,900, so away it went. Still kind of miss having a hoe, but there was no way I was going to dump a bunch of money into it. I can go buy alot newer 160 or 200 for what I got out of my old machine.

wanabe
02-07-2011, 08:31 AM
I didn't realize that from your OP. I'd say go for it then. I'm actually a concrete & masonry contractor, and the reason I gave you those thoughts in the last post is because in 20+ years in this industry, I've seen them all many times. If for no other reason, I'd dig it myself because it was my own house. Best of luck to you.

BTW, what are you using for wall forms? Can you rent them in your area?


Im not 100% on the forms yet. Guy that helps do the carpenter work has a 9 foot set of simons, im hoping he will rent them too me as they dont use them much. If that does nt work, then I have a set of advanced forms lined up. I have also used gates before, and the contractor I worked for had all precise aluminum forms. The alum forms are so much faster, but it seems like they all want big money to rent them.

all ferris
02-07-2011, 11:52 AM
have you checked on what it would cost to have an track hoe come and dig it out? If I could get someone to dig it for about $500 - $800 I'd let them do it. I think I only paid about $600 to have my basement dug in 2003. It only took them about 2-3 hours and the grade was dead nuts.

wanabe
02-07-2011, 01:20 PM
have you checked on what it would cost to have an track hoe come and dig it out? If I could get someone to dig it for about $500 - $800 I'd let them do it. I think I only paid about $600 to have my basement dug in 2003. It only took them about 2-3 hours and the grade was dead nuts.

I guess I just take too much pride in my projects and like to do 100% of it myself. Some people think im crazy but in the end I know what I have, and exactly how every little part of the job was done. I hate when corners get cut to save time/money.

joes169
02-07-2011, 01:39 PM
Im not 100% on the forms yet. Guy that helps do the carpenter work has a 9 foot set of simons, im hoping he will rent them too me as they dont use them much. If that does nt work, then I have a set of advanced forms lined up. I have also used gates before, and the contractor I worked for had all precise aluminum forms. The alum forms are so much faster, but it seems like they all want big money to rent them.

I was raised with the Advanced forms, my Dad bought his first set in '79, so I actually don't think they're a bad option at all. Simpler than setting any of the others IMO, but you only have 2' panels vs. the 3' on the alum. If you need 9' though and the Adv. are only 8', it's not real easy or fast to stack an extra foot. Have fun with the project.

all ferris
02-07-2011, 04:01 PM
I guess I just take too much pride in my projects and like to do 100% of it myself. Some people think im crazy but in the end I know what I have, and exactly how every little part of the job was done. I hate when corners get cut to save time/money.

I never said you were crazy for doing it yourself with your T300. I was just thinking about it money wise. It is nice to know its done right.

ioilyouin
02-07-2011, 08:22 PM
I can come dig it with the 50, we'll make a day of it.:laugh: Or my A 300.:weightlifter: