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ParadiseLS
02-10-2011, 03:24 PM
I have a plan to do compost extract, except without the extracting. I'm just going to drop 50G of good, screened compost into water in a hydroseeder, let the agitators do their magic to mix it up and then spray it onto the lawns. i'm also going to use a smaller backpack-type sprayer tank and put molasses and hydrolysates in with water, and siphon it into the hose of the hydroseeder so they are mixed into the compost slurry, in proportion, as it is being applied.

it seems this is going to work well and produce a high quality inoculation (as long as the compost itself is high quality!). am i missing anything?

phasthound
02-10-2011, 06:50 PM
I have a plan to do compost extract, except without the extracting. I'm just going to drop 50G of good, screened compost into water in a hydroseeder, let the agitators do their magic to mix it up and then spray it onto the lawns. i'm also going to use a smaller backpack-type sprayer tank and put molasses and hydrolysates in with water, and siphon it into the hose of the hydroseeder so they are mixed into the compost slurry, in proportion, as it is being applied.

it seems this is going to work well and produce a high quality inoculation (as long as the compost itself is high quality!). am i missing anything?

IMHO, this will provide you with very few microbes and some foods for them, I wouldn't think it will produce a high quality inoculation. There are better ways.

JDUtah
02-10-2011, 08:33 PM
what does 50g mean?

ICT Bill
02-10-2011, 08:45 PM
I have seen this work very well, you will have to screen at 1/8 minus to not clog, 1 to 1 1/2 yards per 750 gallons of water works great

the biggest issue is laying down the existing turf and you have to come back and rake otherwise it will die under the compost

this is an excellent tactic for hydroseeding

IMHO extracts are for soil and AACT is for foliar feeding or disease suppression, extracts bring most of the goodies from the compost in spore and dormant form as well as nutrients from the compost along with it, may of the folks that have been doing this along time in landscaping prefer extracts for turf and landscape. They also are easier to apply than top dressing

ParadiseLS
02-10-2011, 09:45 PM
I have seen this work very well, you will have to screen at 1/8 minus to not clog, 1 to 1 1/2 yards per 750 gallons of water works great

if you were thinking of 1.5 yards, presumably to make 1,000 gallons of slurry, how much area would you expect to be able to cover with those 1000 G? (p.s. i will be making half that with turbo turf hs-500)

ParadiseLS
02-11-2011, 06:02 PM
regarding microbe foods, would i extrapolate from a common AACT recipe and use the proportionate number of microbes for my coverage area, or would i expect to use more/less foods in a light, mixed slurry versus AACT?

e.g. 50 gallons AACT: 1-1.5L molasses; 0.1-0.15L fish hydrolysates

if i'm making 500 gallons of thin/light slurry, would i expect to use about 12.5L molasses and 1.25L fish hydrolysates, which is proportionate to a standard AACT recipe?

ICT Bill
02-11-2011, 07:23 PM
1000 gallons will typically cover 10,000 sq ft but that is for hydroseeding, you will get much more coverage than that as a turf application
Save your money on foods, the compost has plenty of microbe food in it, they want organic matter

if you add foods you will get a bloom of microbes that will rob nutrients from the turf until the bloom ends and they are released

a couple of folks have "brewed" our tea, it becomes so microbial that it actually turns the turf white until they all die off and the nutrients are released, then it is the greenest green you have ever seen (i should be a poet) but it is a bit of a scare until it does

OrganicsMaine
02-12-2011, 01:27 PM
Bill, how long does it typically take for the lawn to green up after going white?

ICT Bill
02-12-2011, 02:17 PM
Bill, how long does it typically take for the lawn to green up after going white?

depending on soil temps a week to 10 days

ParadiseLS
02-15-2011, 09:59 PM
I want this compost to sit in my tank for up to 10 hours. i know that with extracts, it's considered ok to store it for awhile, like even a week or so. whereas with teas, you're recommended to spray within 4 hours.

how long do you think i can have this stuff sitting in water?

i'm worried about the aerobic bacteria, the flagella, nematodes, etc. sitting in the water all day.

maybe it would be better to run a smaller tank, have a nurse tank with water so i can make 3 batches throughout the day that will each only sit around a few hours.

ICT Bill
02-15-2011, 10:09 PM
you bring up a good point what are you trying to do with the extract, many of the "masters" are trying to establish the higher level predators in their teas, these are the ones that eat others that release the nutrients

I know many that throw compost in a pale of water, leave it for several days and stir it whenever they happen to go by the bucket and do just fine, it is a scaling issue really, I do fine with a 5 gallon bucket in my back yard, if I was trying to service 40 or 400 or 4000 clients it would be much different and I would be looking for a completely different outcome

I think you will be fine, actually the plants will tell you in a matter of time

ParadiseLS
02-16-2011, 07:17 PM
i'm also thinking that with a smaller tank, comes a less powerful engine and that will help me keep the centrifugal pump from destroying microbes as they are mixed into the water and later pumped into the hose. i am under the impression that diaphragm pumps are least harmful to microbes, and centrifugal pumps could potentially be damaging.

if i'm not preserving the microbes, i'd rather just put down dehydrated granular compost with some mixed in dry molasses into the lawn, using a broadcast spreader, as that would be more effective for turf improvement.

my plan right now is to go ahead and put down two apps of granular compost in early april and then again 8 weeks later, with apps of compost tea, one in between in may and two more in august and october. plus an aeration + leaf mulching + microbe foods combo in late october/early november.

if i can't be confident in the compost tea, then i will adapt with a third granular app in august and maybe try to puch the aerate+mulch+foods deal for early oct AND early november. unfortunately, putting down tonnes of granular compost is not going to give me the same margin or scalability.

Snapper12
08-09-2011, 11:31 PM
How is this working out for you?

ParadiseLS
08-11-2011, 09:03 PM
I bought a microbulator instead.............still would love to give it a try. maybe i'll buy a hydroseeder as my next sprayer and run some tests.

tnmtn
08-21-2011, 02:49 PM
wouldn't 1 1/2 yards be a little much for 1000 gals? in my 300 gal hydroseeder i couldn't imagine using more than 150# of screened compost.

Smallaxe
08-21-2011, 07:26 PM
wouldn't 1 1/2 yards be a little much for 1000 gals? in my 300 gal hydroseeder i couldn't imagine using more than 150# of screened compost.

I still can't see why putting down 1.5 yards of dry compost and turning on the irrigation or sprinkler wouldn't be a better environment for 'slurry' with a lot less work... :confused:

HayBay
08-21-2011, 11:09 PM
http://www.tendershoots.ca/

These guys used to do a few municipal properties in Ontario. Im not sure what they are up to now.

They were strictly Organic (per say) a few years back but ended up falling back on Weed Control Products.

It still is very interesting stuff.

The people that sold you the Microbulator have posted here that lawns are a waste of time, by the way.

Tim Wilson
08-22-2011, 03:30 PM
http://www.tendershoots.ca/

These guys used to do a few municipal properties in Ontario. Im not sure what they are up to now.

They were strictly Organic (per say) a few years back but ended up falling back on Weed Control Products.

It still is very interesting stuff.

The people that sold you the Microbulator have posted here that lawns are a waste of time, by the way.

Please provide a quote. I have said I do not have any experience with lawns and that I believe in indigenous vegetation over lawns but do not believe I stated what you say.

phasthound
08-22-2011, 03:58 PM
I have brewed AACT with a Microbulator as part of our organic & transitional lawn care programs. We have seen an increase in turf health, reduced irrigation needs, and less disease problems.

HayBay
08-22-2011, 05:51 PM
Tim, I will not debate this with you after this posting. You reply will go unanswered.

You didn't say lawns are a Waste of time

I should have worded it like this:

The people that sold you the Microbulator have posted here that lawns are silly, by the way.

Here is the actual quote since you asked:

As far as a silly lawn goes, embrace the other plant types which show themselves or pull them by hand. What is the big deal about a few plants which are not grass, growing in a ground cover? Stop catering to a bunch of silly spoiled babies who want to have a perfect lawn at a premium price. It is time for America (& Canada) to grow up! If one is growing hay or crops there are many techniques to control weeds like competing acceptable 'weeds', burning and seeding, soil microbial manipulation, etc.

As far as using roundup, this is the spawn of the devil himself and anyone who uses it with a minor amount of knowledge of its effects on the soil and the earth aligns themself as such. This chemical was designed with the overtaking of horticulture and the world food market in mind and what has evolved is pure evil. Check it out

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrganicsMaine
I am all for getting rid of all of the bad crap that everyone is putting down on their lawns. However, if we try to force feed everyone and stamp our feet and have a hissy fit when people request a nice thick weed free(almost??) lawn, then we will get nowhere, and they will turn to the chem lawns of the world and we all know how that will go.

Plus, then we aren't making much of a living either, which, last I checked is a primary reason for being in any business.

It is on "us" to perfect the organic approach, and even blend it with a synthetic approach if necessary, to give the customer what they want. It is a free country and they are allowed to have a lush green lawn. Again, we in America believe in personal freedoms, so lets keep the personal freedoms, but lets make it so that it is an easy decision to choose organics.
End Quote:

Tim Wilson Replies:

raaalph! The land of freedom allows a lush green lawn?

*****************
I don't think a guy from Ontario would buy a Microbulator if he knew he would not be able to address the weeds in his customers lawns and that he should embrass them instead.

I would like to know why ParadiseLS bought this product.
I also agree with OrganisMaines comment.

OrganicsMaine
08-22-2011, 06:25 PM
When the hell did I post that???? Actually I remember posting it, but not where or why. So, again, to reiterate my position on the organics vs. synthetics argument: I am firmly in the organics corner. I have taken it upon myself to make it an easy decision for customers in my area to want to go organic. If I can overcome their objections and worries with my organic programs, then selling against the other guys will be a piece of cake. I don't fault people for wanting that beautiful lawn, heck, I want it too. So with that in mind, I have set about to create those lawns with an organic approach. If that means synthetics with my organics, then so be it. In doing this, I have already cut out a lot of the problems, and ultimately, I will remove all of the synthetics. One step at a time guys. Lets perfect our programs, and make them scaleable, and then we can conquer the world!!!

Tim Wilson
08-23-2011, 01:10 PM
Thank you HayBay for straightening that out. I have no trouble with those statements. I am a firm believer in pulling/scorching the weeds one does not want and employing methods to outgrow them with other plants. I do like clover. I think it would be productive if people grew mushrooms in their lawns, as this promotes nutrient exchange and soil O2. Of course it would make sense to seed edible varieties.

I'm pretty sure the reason people purchase the microbulator is because it is comparitively inexpensive and it does extract and multiply compost microorganisms efficiently. It is probably the best available for this. How many other compost tea manufacturers are able to post video footage of the microbes extracted and multiplied at specific time ranges?

One reason for this efficiency is the use of an air lift which can increase the dissolved oxygen capacity of a pump ten fold.

I am sorry that you are so bitter about herbicides.

ICT Bill
08-24-2011, 08:18 AM
wouldn't 1 1/2 yards be a little much for 1000 gals? in my 300 gal hydroseeder i couldn't imagine using more than 150# of screened compost.

I have seen them load 1 yard in a 750 gallon hydro seeder many times for stream restoration, they blow it on the sides of the river bank

for a hydro seed application you are probably right the slurry would be a bit thick

DUSTYCEDAR
09-08-2011, 12:54 AM
300 gal jet machine 50 to 75 lbs of compost max any more get the shovel out
i have also shot buff stuf out of the jet with good success

Snapper12
09-08-2011, 10:16 PM
Along the same lines... has anybody used a bark blower for top dressing with compost?

ICT Bill
09-09-2011, 11:39 AM
Along the same lines... has anybody used a bark blower for top dressing with compost?

My buddy John Engwar over at groundscapes express does it all of the time
http://groundscapesexpress.com/

Exact Rototilling
09-10-2011, 02:41 AM
1000 gallons will typically cover 10,000 sq ft but that is for hydroseeding, you will get much more coverage than that as a turf application
Save your money on foods, the compost has plenty of microbe food in it, they want organic matter

if you add foods you will get a bloom of microbes that will rob nutrients from the turf until the bloom ends and they are released

a couple of folks have "brewed" our tea, it becomes so microbial that it actually turns the turf white until they all die off and the nutrients are released, then it is the greenest green you have ever seen (i should be a poet) but it is a bit of a scare until it does

Any pics of what this whitish lawn looks like...?

I'm currently experimenting with molasses on my lawn that has 3/4 of thatch. It was that way when I moved here last October along with fairy ring. Fairy ring is a darker green currently. Temps are still high upper 80's 90's so I haven't put down any fert since May.

Neighbor was actually in charge of the lawn at this house prior to my move here October of 2010 and he told me I'm over watering since I have mushrooms....?

His logic is less water = less mushrooms. ;)

Is this not right up there with wet sidewalks cause rain....:confused:

Smallaxe
09-10-2011, 08:26 AM
Depending on the kind of mushroom 'too much' is hard to judge... while it is true that mushrooms don't usually pop up in dry conditions, they can still pop up in moderate conditions...

the best way to solve the water issue is to open up the soil or pull a plug after irrigation and see where the water is... Just as a rule of thumb in cooler weather, it is best to let the surface dry thoroughly for several days b4 watering again...

Exact Rototilling
09-10-2011, 01:30 PM
Yes ...I only cycle sprinklers 2 times a week of that...grass is mowed at 3.5"...then I run one of.the old Nelson lawn tractors for complete watering once a week for complete deep watering. Still in the 80's and 90's here....

Mushrooms are feed by breakdown of OM correct?
Posted via Mobile Device

Smallaxe
09-11-2011, 09:22 AM
Yes ...I only cycle sprinklers 2 times a week of that...grass is mowed at 3.5"...then I run one of.the old Nelson lawn tractors for complete watering once a week for complete deep watering. Still in the 80's and 90's here....

Mushrooms are feed by breakdown of OM correct?
Posted via Mobile Device

Yes, they do consume OM to its final destination. all of you irrigation should be 'deep watering'... the question is: when it the water so deep it is wasted from that point on...

.25" of water on sand every other day may be a deep watering because it soaks up the top foot of ground in a matter of minutes.

In heavier soils .5" may still be a shallow watering because it percolates so slowly that it may have t be spread over a 2 day period giving it a chance to soak in... a big problem with puddled surfaces is that all the water is put down at once and most of it evaporates, while the root zone is lacking... that is why looking into the soil depth is valuable, i making a judgement...

3 times a week is generally a lot... :)