Can one man make a living at this?

[021462]

Just started in the Lawn business this past May. After 17 years in the dot com business I was asked to leave (laid-off) early and pursue another career! I have been doing fine so far but the question always comes to mind when I sleep, "what will I do in Dec, Jan, & Feb". I only have one year round contract and I am owner operator. All my accounts are residental except for one. Just starting out is scarry! Any advice from those of you in my shoes? Thanks ahead of time!

[Brickman]

The reality of your question plagued me for 6 winters. During the summer I made a good living, but living the good life in the summer did NOT allow for any saving for the winter months.

When a house payment found its way into my life I had to have year around employment. And made the decision to sell LCO and start hauling cars.

[strickdad]

get you a little winter time job delivering pizza, news papers etc. next year talk to your customers and put them on the 12 month plan, tell them you need to draw income year round, explain to them they will be writing less checks, the payment will be the same each month, and it will be less hassle for both partys...

[Bob's Lawn]

021462,

Same exact situation for me, I was in the dot com industry and asked to leave (laid off) last March. I started my company and have been asking the same questions. This winter I will have to get a job, but I plan on not having to next winter. I will raise prices a little and put all profits from add on sales to winter living. I will try to live on just regular services during the summer.

We will see how this goes. If I do enough leaf removals, aerating, overseeding, etc. this fall, I might be able to buy some more equipment for next year.

Good luck

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Balance, budgets, are the key.

A little snow don't hurt here either.

[Turf Dancer]

I have been in this game and it can be real tough in the winters. Here the last mowing will usually be around the first of November, some will stop services in the first of October or middle of the month. I don't spend hardly any money the month of sept on , just bills/rent. I am looking at buying another guy out which will require me getting further in debt. I don't have the money but if I don't buy him out another guy is going to. If the other guy gets his business then I will be screwwed. He has some great accounts! Only about 21 mowing accounts but they are good ones all residential and most are real nice lawns for around here and he gets good money for them ! So winter will be especially tough for me this year. Even though I have a part time job that I can make around $860 month take home It will be real tough though this winter! Bills are around $1400
My advise get a seasonal job part time ? I have a part time job that allows me to work 25 hours a week in the spring through fall and then 32-34 in winter months so it helps alot in the winter
If I get the other guys accounts and his pickup then I can hopefully buy a larger trailer or get a rig with a dump on it and keep current trailer and get larger mower which I am lloking at right now ! Good luck and take care

[Propdoc]

A great way to make some extra money that I don't hear too much about on the forum is donating plasma. I make an extra $200 a month doing it and the plasma could help save someone's life. I spend about 4 hours a week donating. It's a good way to catch up on your reading, in fact that's what I do is read books that might help me in the business.

[Brickman]

A winter job was really hard for me to get. Nobody wanted to hire a guy they knew would quit in a few months.
Don't tell me that I would not have had to tell them that. I have heard it 100 times and can tell you it won't work. You put on your ap your last job, and list your self as the forman of that job. Dead give away.
Besides I am not crooked enough to try some thing like that. I would not want an employee that wasn't honest enough to tell me up front.
We don't get that much snow here to pay for equip, let alone make any $.

[Mow&Snow]

Originally posted by Brickman
When a house payment found its way into my life I had to have year around employment. And made the decision to sell LCO and start hauling cars.

I see you all over lawnsite and you dont even do LCO stuff anymore? DOH!

[Doogiegh]

It's right here.. I think this will work:

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33067&highlight=sell+lco

Gary

[The Mowerdude]

Originally posted by 021462
Just started in the Lawn business this past May. ....what will I do in Dec, Jan, & Feb?.....Any advice from those of you in my shoes? Thanks ahead of time!

When I first started, I delivered pizzas. I wasn't bad money. It was enough to squeak by.

Later, as I had time to grow my business, I started coming up with profit centers as "add-ons" to my mowing business. I bought an aerator and started pushing aeration in the fall and spring.

In 97 I bought a tracvac leaf collection system for my Scag 52. Later I bought the Pecos for my Chariots. Earlier than that, it seemed as though I could never ferret away enough to get through the winter, but when I started the leaf removal, everything changed. With the leaf removal, my season was extended all the way into January. One year we had virtually no snow, and we picked up leaves until the end of Febuary.

But the secret is simply to come up with something that will generate a little income for each season of the year. It might be having a yard sale, or becoming a vendor at the local flea market. And it doesn't have to be a lot of money. Just enough to keep going.

Now, I look forward to winter so I can rest.

[Mow&Snow]

I can't help but wonder guys, For the most part winter, (time when there is NO yard work to be done), is only 3 months long. If you have 2000 dollars a month in living expenses, (this seems like a fair amount to me if not on the high side), over 3 months this is only 6000 dollars.

If you save $675.00 a month,(less than $175 bucks a week), during the extended season, you would have over 2000 dollars a month to live on for Dec, Jan, and Feb.

This plan would leave you with $660.00 every month after your $2000 in living expenses, during the season for other expenses,(like growing the business), if you gross only 30k a year in lawn care.

30k is not that unreasonable either for a one operation. 30 customers a week is only 6 stops per day, and at 30 bucks a pop, adds up to 32k per year over 9 months.

Tell me what u all think...

Tom

[The Mowerdude]

It is a good plan, if you can stick to it.

The problem is that with the lawn biz, there are so many hidden things that come up and bite you. Minor emergencies such as weather, tires, belts, etc.

Then the truck expenses, such as a clutch going out, or tranny blowing.

For many, wives and family members don't pull together. I know some wives, that when their husbands are pulling in a couple thousand a week, they can spend every last cent on a shopping spree.

And for many of us, there's credit card debt. The interest eats us alive.

Sticking to a budget and socking the money away is a lot easier said that done.

Once, you get behind on the bills, then when you do get back into your fat time of year, you spend all your profits catching up past debts. Then, just about the time you get caught up, you're back into winter and you get behind again. The whole thing gets to be a vicious cycle.

[KLMlawn]

Hey Tom, what about overhead and other payments besides rent/mortgage, food and gas. You still have to make mnonthly payments on your business and associated expenses just about year round ... well at least I do. My business expenses run about $50K a year and that is before I pay rent or put food on the table and pay my personal expenses and utilities. Then you have to think about putting something away for when you are too tired and broken down to do this type of work anymore.

[Mow&Snow]

I hear you barking guys. I go through the same shhitt. I have no ability to save either; we spend every penny as soon as it comes in. The way I live through the winter is this.

At the end of mowing, we push hard for fall clean-up. This will keep us real busy into december; so busy, we don't even spend much money. And it is common for us to do 20k picking up leaves. this money plus late payers will take me through Jan. Now I need it to snow. If I get just 4 storm a winter I will survive. I make about 2k every time it snows. before you know it, march is here and with comes spring clean-ups......

Tom

[Richard Martin]

I use a little of a lot of the things everybody has mentioned here.

1: I put money away. I get to a point every month where all of the bills are paid (including the IRS quarterlies) and I still have a chunk of cash. I opened a savings account a good distance from my house that takes a while to get to. The money goes there to lower temptation.

2: As fall approaches and all of my IRS quarterlies are paid I start paying bills ahead. Right now I have a full tank of fuel oil and all of my insurances are paid up through May of next year. I will also pay things like the electricity, cable, telephone, cell phone and newspaper up through April, May or June of next year. If you call your lenders they will even let you pay ahead things like your mortgage and vehicle payments.

3: You must make a budget for the winter months. In order for you to know how much money you might be short in the winter months you need to know how much you will be spending. Just get a piece of paper and draw a line straight down the middle of it. Now draw 4 verticle, evenly spaced lines across the paper and write December, Jan, Feb, March and April in each of the left hand side boxes you made. In the left column of boxes (the ones with the names of the months) write down each bill you must pay that month and the amount owed. In the right column write down how much money you expect to have come in. The difference between the left and right columns is how much money you need to make during each month. As you pay each bill mark it off of your budget.

If you do each of these 3 things it may not fix your winter money problems but at least you will be able to sleep at night because you will know exactly where you stand on a day to day basis. It's not owing money that bothers most people, it's not knowing who and how much they owe the money to. It's walking out to the mailbox and dreading what might be in there next. Been there, fixed that.

[jeffyr]

Great advice Richard....but check into Money Market accounts instead of savings. It works similarly, but you get 2-3x the interest and there are minimums on the withdrawals (I think ours is $200).

jeffyr

[SLS]

It is all about setting GOALS.

It took some long term planning, and sticking with it, to get me past the wintertime blues. Well, 3 years of it anyway.

First thing I did was hammer away at the credit card debt and then chop 'em all up...except the one with the lowest interest rate. In case of an emergency. After struggling to pay them off it practically takes a mule team to pull it out of my wallet now. I belive that credit card (and the interest attached) is what keeps a lot of folks down. I know I was 'a slave' to credit card payments for way too long...the principal was not the problem, it was the interest that was killing me....what a racket! :eek:

Then I figured out my monthly living expenses (with a little 'gravy' added in) and started a special savings account in which to make weekly deposits...starting at the begining of the season. I added the former credit card payments into that account as well. Barring any unforseen emergencys I now have the 3 month's of living expences saved...plus change. I still add $$$ to that account as a jump on next year a little extra Christmas funds.

Another thing that helps is to pay off your quarterly income tax payments during the working season...January is slow and I hate that payment....so I pay it along with September's payment. My property tax also get paid in October...instead of waiting until Feburary.

For me, eliminating the 'wintertime blues' has been a combination of things:

1) Finantial planning
2) Debt reduction (and elimination)
3) A savings strategy
4) Early tax payments (income and property)
5) Disipline in adhering to my plan...and controlling necessary and unnecessary spending.

And, of course

6) Working my butt off to make it happen. :)

Finally............after 3 years.......still no new Ferrari....but I can put my equipment away for a couple of months and spend a couple of weeks in The Keys doing some fishing and relaxing....while not sweating the bills, Christmas, taxes,....ahhhhhh. The Ferrari can wait. ;)

[KLMlawn]

I am in a similar situation as many other here with regard to credit cards, but I do not see anyone else making the point that interest isn't a real big problem if you don't have to pay it !!!
Maybe I am a rarity, but I get at least 2-3 offers a week for 0% for anywhere from 6 month to a year, with no balance transfer fee. I simply keep swapping the balance back and forth between the cards. I think the highest interest rate I paid in the last 5-6 years was about 4.9% and that was only for manybe 2-3 months. I almost never pay interest on my credit card balances ... so I figure that hey, if they are willing to laon me money with nothing in return or with no benefit to them, why not take advantage of their generosity :D :D

[walker-talker]

Same here, got one card that has 1.9% and another at 4.9% until the balance is paid off. But, I would recommend staying away from credit card all together, if possible. Hang Christmas lights in Dec. for extra cash.

MATT

[scott's turf]

Remember it is what you net not what you gross. And lets face it, there are not too many rich guys mowing lawns. If you are solo you will reach a point of maximum income capacity. Hiring help is the way to make more money with less work. Yes there are more headaches but with some good help you can also protect yourself and company in case you get ill or have a family emergency and can't work.
Don't let that gross number fool you. We have lots of expenses and in most cases have of that gross is eaten up in expenses.

[TurfGuyTX]

Originally posted by Propdoc
A great way to make some extra money that I don't hear too much about on the forum is donating plasma. I make an extra $200 a month doing it and the plasma could help save someone's life. I spend about 4 hours a week donating. It's a good way to catch up on your reading, in fact that's what I do is read books that might help me in the business.

I'm glad you can help save someone's life. But if you are getting paid, then it's not really a donation. You sell your plasma, but that's cool.

[Alan Bechard]

Making it truly by yourself can be tough. My wife works the lawncare full time in the summer, on through about November then usually takes a two to three month break. We could not work it that way if it was just the lawncare business that supported us. I hold the regular 40 pr week job that covers day to day expenses. Even then life tightens up a bit in the winter.

I would look to some of the "handyman" type work to tide you through a bit. Maybe if you could stand it seasonal type help in large retailers. Many folks put on help after Thanksgiving through Christmas.

It gets tight but if you can find something that you enjoy doing it makes it a lot more bearable. Maybe writing articles for the paper or pursing your hobby interest with a part time job, or if you are mechanicly inclined doing some side jobs prepping other folks equipment? Do you enjoy wood working? Possibly limited furniture refinishing? Working with the School system is sometimes practical. It is really all about you and what you find satisfying that meets your financial needs.

Hope this rambling helps. Al Bechard

[Jon99]

I have it a little bit easier since my wifes job just about covers our basic monthly expenses (usually about $400 a month short).. So I mow March thru November and then either substitute teach for $80 a day or work for Accountemps making between $12-14/hr... My wife is a school teacher and since she has the summers off she helps me mow a little and also takes care of a few flower beds..

This was my first year mowing, hopefully by year three I will be able to take the winters off..

[mike payne]

I know that winters can be tough. I try to save enough to get by. That is easier said that done. I work as a substitute teacher during the winter. This job is a as needed job but I get to work all that I want. During the spring, if I get rained out of mowin, I go and teach.

[thfireman]

I just dont have any play money when it stops coming in. I fight fires full time so my bills get paid with that check. Of coarse around here I will jhave some type of lawn work right up untill the middle or end of November and start back in febuary.

Roger

[The Lawn Choupique]

Detailing cars or cleaning carpets. Both pay as much as cutting grass, is year around and a lot less work.

[Mow&Snow]

Originally posted by Propdoc
A great way to make some extra money that I don't hear too much about on the forum is donating plasma. I make an extra $200 a month doing it and the plasma could help save someone's life. I spend about 4 hours a week donating.

My laborer, who makes 8 dollars an hour, and runs all day in the hot sun, (if you ask him), with no breaks, wants to know where you donate. He wants to make more money.

And what about sperm banks? Any money there? After all, he is only 23 and you know what they say about that age; Young, Dumb and full of....

[lasher66]

I just swapped my balances to 0% to Nov. of next year. That is great.
Anyways , I make sure to save money in the spring time when the money is flowing in. That way by July I already have my winter saving goal and the rest of the lawn season, drought or not, I am already set for the winter. Its hard to do in the spring time when you want to spend all this money , but it makes me feel much better when I know I am already set for winter in the first half of the lawn season. That way I can sit on my ta ta all winter and prepare for next lawn season. Thats my input.

Lasher

[eslawns]

IMO, the key to dealing with winter is managing debt.

I just paid off my truck in Aug. and owe about $1k on my daughter's car. After that, I will owe VISA $4k, and the note on my house. All the other bills are the ones you never get rid of (utilities, groceries, insurance, etc) Even with those bills, last year wasn't bad, and this year there will be less going out and more coming in.

I pay ahead on the utilities, buy extra non-perishable food, and save every extra dime I can from Aug until the end of the season. I don't buy ANYTHING unless it is absolutely needed or a deal so sweet I just can't pass it up until next spring. It took almost 3 years to get out of debt, but it really feels great.


What I'm saying is really that we don't have "regular" jobs, so our lifestyles should be adapted to that. Another way to do it is by putting yourself on a salary. You just need to develop the discipline to leave what's left over and not spend it.

[wattsup]

Anyone ever heard of not borrowing money? Credit card interest is going to be the downfall of this society. Some of you have said you pay off your credit cards every month and do not pay interest. What happens when you have a problem and can not pay it off? Would it not be easier to use a check card? There is never interest on a check card. I borrow money like most people, but I would be much happier if I did not have to. As for paying the bills in the off season, it would be much easier to pay the bills if I did not have to pay the banks interest charges. Just wondering if any of you use this thinking?

[jmleaver]

hey guys I am in the same boat as 021462, I plan on plowing and working at soem part time job. I just started in July and satyed pretty busy so far. I would like to get my customers on year round contracts, I have proposed them to some some commerical accounts so far that I will be plowing for. Each time they opt for the pay-per-storm option. How do I push them to year round contracts?

[greenngrow]

Right now I am parttime, but next March I am going full-time.
I also have wonder how to make it through the winter months. I can push snow but not much around here.

Like Jon99 I am going to subteach and work at temp service. You are lucky Jon99 here subs only get paid $60 per day.

Best way to make it through the winter is to marry a person who has a good paying job

[MATTHEW]

Look, guys, most of us are in the same boat. With one exception.
We KNOW it's coming. Try to walk a mile in the shoes of a laid-off guy with no guarantee of future employment!

We know that we'll be back to work in a few months.

We need to look at the big picture. When the money is good, don't go and buy a new dirt bike... pre-pay the next 6 months on the building rent. Insurance. Taxes. Ect.

Get your expenses covered and then the basic bills won't seem so bad. I should talk. I just found out my usual winter job is closing the doors. ...time to pray!!!:angel:

[DLS1]

I have never understood the idea of year round contracts. Just take a little money from each job and put it in savings so it is their in the winter months. How many times do you have a customer drop you after their last mow and don't pay you the rest of the monthly dollars they owe you.

Only advantage I see to yearly contracts is if you don't have the discipline to put the money in savings then it would be best to have a monthly contract.

[Brickman]

I was never able to talk any body into yearly contracts. They all thought it was a bad idea. :dizzy:

[HarryD]

you need to find a wife that makes over 90k a year like me ;) god bless her I hope she gets a raise this year

[Brickman]

How about TWO sugar momies? A guy would have it made. :drinkup:

[gogetter]

I'm fortunate that my wife makes half decent money (and that promotion with the $9 grand raise she just got made it even more decent! yeah for her!).
But I am working part time at my nephews auto detailing business this winter (actually I started over a month ago already) to help make my half of the responsibilities.

I do hope that I can grow this business to a point where I won't have to take on a job in the winters, but I'm taking it slow right now and just trying to learn as I go. Maybe next year!

But I wouldn't be able to do this if it wasn't for my wife, that's for sure.

[gogetter]

Originally posted by The Lawn Choupique
Detailing cars or cleaning carpets. Both pay as much as cutting grass, is year around and a lot less work.

Cleaning carpets true, auto detailing false.

[odin]

Dang jonathon you lucky dog, all my wife does is set around on her a** the last soon to be 29 years we been married:D

[gogetter]

Yes I am lucky! My wife is a work-a-holic. It comes from her dad (who owns a masonry/construction biz and works about 70-75 hours a week).
She doesn't do THAT many hours but she works alot.
She's the type that even if I made a ton of money and could provide all she needs or even if we hit the lottery, she'd still keep her job!

I used to make more then her at my old full time job. I've told that I'll eventually pass her again!:p

[dmk395]

If I had to work year round I would not be in this business. You need to learn how to budget, read some books and give it a try.

[lasher66]

Yep, same here. By time I am done with my fall cleanups, I am ready to take a 3 month break. I make sure that in the spring time when I am making the big bucks, I put my winter income in a savings account and dont touch it . Its hard, but its nice in the winter time when I am doing nothing and I still have money. Good luck

Lasher

[Barkleymut]

Some good suggestions here but the one thing I feel is the most important is to have a plan when you start your business. I worked at a bank making around $25K/year. My wife was making about 10K more than I was and we were doing great. No credit cards, a good down payment on a house, luckily no student loans (thanks ma and pa!). I started out in the lawn biz almost 5 years ago and just started taking everything I made and investing in equipment. Almost 3 years ago my wife quit her job to stay home with our daughter. It was tough for a little while but we lived on the NECESSITIES in life. We don't eat out much unless the parents are paying. We go to Nags Head once a year for 3 or 4 nights instead of the Carribean for a week. Thats the personal side.

The business side- Basically you are going to have to find the right customers which will come with time if you are a good salesman. Then every year you have to raise prices to weed out any low paying accounts and replace them with the fat accounts. Now my wife and I net more in profits than we made combined before I started, and are able to make ends meet in the off season. This off season though is really going to bite though because I am going to have to work my rear off. I have told soooo many customers "I'll get to that in January" that I'm going to be working at least 40 hours a week and generally for $40/hour. I also think that monthly payments for customers are a good idea. I would say 70% of my customers are on monthly payment plans. Give your business some time to grow and you will do well if you do top notch work and charge top prices.

[JimLewis]

It depends on your climate. Does it freeze all winter there? Here in OR it gets cooler (40-60 degrees) but it rarely freezes and if it does, it's just for a day or so. So we sell customers on year-round services.

If you have a climate like this, you can eventually get a lot of year round accounts. These days, all of our 160 accounts are year-round.

It was tough at first but after a year or two I figured it out. First rule; always offer customers options if you want them to do something but can't force them to. So in the beginning I'd quote every job like this; The price is XXX / month for seasonal service and YYY / month for year-round service. XXX would be about $25 more per month than YYY. Also, YYY is the price I really wanted to make per month, regardless. XXX was just a higher price to offset the winter months. I was giving them a BIG incentive to go with year-round. And so for the first several years that's what I'd do and 75% of the time new customers would chose the lower monthly price and go with year-round service.

Now one challengs is once you get year-round service - what are you going to do during the winter when the grass doesn't really grow very fast? Well, that's something you gotta figure out. We put together a package where we're always doing SOMETHING of value every two weeks during the winter. This at least keeps them happy. I know guys who don't do anything all winter but still demand year-round payments. But customers eventually resent having to pay for nothing all winter. So they eventually leave and come to us.

Once I got a good 100 customers or so and 75 or so were year-round I quit offering the option and just told people all we offer is year-round service. A lot of other LCOs around here do the same thing. And if you live in a temperate climate I bet you'd find a lot of your competition offers only year-round deals and you didn't even know it. I know I didn't for the first year or two.

If you live where it freezes all winter, I don't know what to tell you. Because I wouldn't have stayed in this business if that was the case. Or at the least, I would have found another side business to get involved in. But you gotta do something. I don't think just "budgeting and planning" are really the solution to get you by for 4 months of winter.

[LAWNS AND MOWER]

I live in a 4 season climate. You can still get yearly contracts, even without snow removal. I'll go 4 months without visiting my customers, but still get the checks rolling in each month. What I do is get a ballpark figure of how much a customer will spend in a season (Lawn care, fertilizing, spring and fall cleanups, etc..) and divide that total by 12 months. Payments begin in April and continue till March. I'll total up what they actually spent on my services after the fall cleanup and then adjust either up or down for the last three months. I'm still charging ala carte for my services, so my customers don't mind sending checks in Feb. when there's 12 inches of snow on the ground. This plan works better on larger $$$$$ accounts. I won't offer it to customers who spend less than $1,500 in a season. I picked up 2 large condo complexs in the past 2 months and will put them on the 12 month plan starting in April. I'll offer them a discount per cut if they go on the plan (Thanks, Jim Lewis!!). POA's can be tight, so they feel better if they think they are getting a discount.

LAWNS AND MOWER

[JimLewis]

I agree with Lawns and Mower. This is a decent way to approach it too if you live in a cold-winter climate. Although the disadvantage is that each month (during the spring, summer and fall), you are making less than you should be. This is of course compensated by the fact that you make good money in the winter when you are doing nothing.

With a true year-round service like ours, you make what you should make all spring, summer and fall and then during the winter you actually make more than you should. Service goes down, cost of labor and materials goes down, but you still make the same $ each month. It's great!

[lawnworker]

I might give contracts a try for next year. Most of mine have been pay as you go. How hard is it to convince residentials to go with contracts? Do you find it is easier to up sell more services to justify a contract, hence raising the yearly rate of service? :cool: :cool: :confused:

[dschulte]

021462 - Worked as a Sales Manager for an alarm and guard company for 13 years. Didnt see eye to eye with the General Manager so we parted ways this past May. Fortunately I saw it coming plus I had to make alimony and child support payments ($2200 month) so I started cutting lawns 5 years ago. Started with a "PUSH MOWER" on 3 acres then went to lawn tractors (wrong choice but live and learn) and this year I purchased John Deere Ztraks. I basically do all of the work myself although I occasionally have a guy help me on big mulch or bush trimming jobs. Will do about $75,000 this year and budgetting for $150,000 next year. For whatever its worth heres what we have done.
1). Go after big commercial jobs especially retail sites i.e. Lowes, Home Depot, Wal Mart etc... They cant afford to not look good, have tons of money and need work done year round. They also pay by credit card which means cash flow within 2 weeks of invoice.
2). Sell it before you buy high end commercial equipment. I sold 3 Lowes stores and didnt even have my Ztraks yet. Had them priced out and knew where I was going to get them but didnt buy the equipment till the day I sold the jobs.
3). Go after chain accounts. Gas stations, mini marts, restaurants, etc... They will eventually refer more business to you.
4). Sign multi year agreements with guaranteed rates. Include a 30 day escape clause for non performance or non payment. Make sure your right on the pricing and you should be good to go for the 3-5 years. Guaranteed revenue.
5). Like the other guys said - pay your bills through winter if possible. I pay all my insurances, cable bills, internet etc... through May. I also buy all of my spare mower parts in the spring - oil, belts, tranny fluid, cotter pins and even a spare tire for the mowers.
6). Not sure if you get ice or snow there but you can get trucks real cheap through trucktrader online, trade n times, etc... Just got an 89 Dodger Ram Sno Commander with 32,000 original miles for $3,800. Put a plow and spreader on it and will make some snow money.
Dont give up. You can make a boat load of money in lawn care. Network, constantly see your customers,up sell and provide a good professional service.
Long winded but bored while doing what else - paying the bills!

[dmk395]

Dshulte,

you seem to have great success being hired by big commercial accounts, what is your secret?

[dschulte]

Check the new threads. Sent a new one instead of replying to the old one. Getting old!

[jwd115]

Keep up the good work, charge a fare price, and you'll get all kinds of business. P.S. also buy a walker GHS!!!

[bobbygedd]

can one man make it? well, we all have our own idea of what good money is, personally my standards are high. most people lower their lifestyle to match their income, i instead , work at raising my income to allow my desired lifestyle. earning potential is a factor also. if u have, say a trade that can earn u 80, 000 a year, can u match that as a solo lawnman? i dont think so. throw some numbers at me, ill tell u if a solo can do it

[The Mowerdude]

Growing your business many times, becomes a case of diminishing returns.

You take on more work, but then you're so busy that you can't canvas for more work. So you hire help. You buy more equipment so the helpers will have something to use. But since you were only a solo, you now have to finance all the new stuff. But your new helpers don't share your enthusiasm, so quality suffers and business starts falling off. So now, you can't go back to being a solo because you're too deep in debt and you can't grow larger because you can't depend on your help.

OR

Instead of hiring helpers, you try and find an outside sales person. He demands higher commisions and you're running around trying to get the work done as fast as he can sell it. But a few customers become very slow paying and by the time you pay your salesman, there's nothing left and you don't have the time to chase the money that's owed without taking time off of the work that needs to be finished.

So the answer to the question of this original thread is: "Yes."

Yes, you CAN make it. But you'll have to be content with the money that only your work alone can bring in, or you'll have to take on a LOT of stress. If you are prepared for either of these things, you should do well.

[Mowin4cash]

Originally posted by The Mowerdude
It is a good plan, if you can stick to it.

Once, you get behind on the bills, then when you do get back into your fat time of year, you spend all your profits catching up past debts. Then, just about the time you get caught up, you're back into winter and you get behind again. The whole thing gets to be a vicious cycle.


Couldn't have said it better myself. There is always someone there during the fat times to take thier "share". This year, the state corporation commission decided to raise the annual fee 50%, my truck insurance policy went up almost 25% (Never had a ticket or claim in 20years!) Have you checked the price of a 245/75/16 E class tire lately???

Mike

[lawnagent]

I am hoping that paying the winter time bills ahead will be the key!

[KenH]

As many of the wise ones already said, it all comes down to budgeting. I have one part timer, we stop work middle of December, and start up again in March. My wife does not work, I have 2 small children, the business insures my family and my employee, who also collects all winter.

Dont spend money you dont have, and start thinking about the upcoming winter in May, not in October.

[Christianstine]

Originally posted by dschulte
021462 - Worked as a Sales Manager for an alarm and guard company for 13 years. Didnt see eye to eye with the General Manager so we parted ways this past May. Fortunately I saw it coming plus I had to make alimony and child support payments ($2200 month) so I started cutting lawns 5 years ago. Started with a "PUSH MOWER" on 3 acres then went to lawn tractors (wrong choice but live and learn) and this year I purchased John Deere Ztraks. I basically do all of the work myself although I occasionally have a guy help me on big mulch or bush trimming jobs. Will do about $75,000 this year and budgetting for $150,000 next year. For whatever its worth heres what we have done.
1). Go after big commercial jobs especially retail sites i.e. Lowes, Home Depot, Wal Mart etc... They cant afford to not look good, have tons of money and need work done year round. They also pay by credit card which means cash flow within 2 weeks of invoice.
2). Sell it before you buy high end commercial equipment. I sold 3 Lowes stores and didnt even have my Ztraks yet. Had them priced out and knew where I was going to get them but didnt buy the equipment till the day I sold the jobs.
3). Go after chain accounts. Gas stations, mini marts, restaurants, etc... They will eventually refer more business to you.
4). Sign multi year agreements with guaranteed rates. Include a 30 day escape clause for non performance or non payment. Make sure your right on the pricing and you should be good to go for the 3-5 years. Guaranteed revenue.
5). Like the other guys said - pay your bills through winter if possible. I pay all my insurances, cable bills, internet etc... through May. I also buy all of my spare mower parts in the spring - oil, belts, tranny fluid, cotter pins and even a spare tire for the mowers.
6). Not sure if you get ice or snow there but you can get trucks real cheap through trucktrader online, trade n times, etc... Just got an 89 Dodger Ram Sno Commander with 32,000 original miles for $3,800. Put a plow and spreader on it and will make some snow money.
Dont give up. You can make a boat load of money in lawn care. Network, constantly see your customers,up sell and provide a good professional service.
Long winded but bored while doing what else - paying the bills!

I must be doing something wrong.You are making 75,000 a year by yourself!Or basically as you stated.I think I need to move to Lansing .(lol)
Brian Grant.

[Tony Harrell]

"Make it" That's a general question and has received a ton of replies. It comes down to what your interpretation of "make it' is. I think a lot of us have problems at first because we're on the weekly/biweekly payment plan, a JOB. This business needs to be more of a big picture mentality. We need to work for a reserve of cash for the lean times (no matter when they happen). The most I've ever made on a JOB is $48K. I can "make it" on much less without any trouble at all. It all depends on your situation. BTW, DEBT is a four letter word. I've been a homogenized man for too long, it's time to get my self esteem back! YES!!! I'm self employed! YES!!! I'm a business man. YES!!! I make the decisions regarding my future. YES!!! I feel GOOOOOOOOD!!!

[boohoo]

I have always had a different approach. I pay myself $36000 a year salary ($3000 a month) and give myself a bonus 10% of net profit @ years end. For me the numbers @ year end are what counts not what I make in the spring. Treat yourself as an employee of the company. That company is worth money if you wish to sell it one day. The more that company grows the more your salary increases and the net worth of the business. I find it very hard to understand why anyone would just get rid customers by way of increase in price, telling them so or whatever. If you dont want them, make up a route and sell them. I bundled my worst 15 (approx $16000 / yr.) together and sold them for $6000 to a guy who wantted to mow part time. To him the prices were fine.

[xpnd]

I have been in the business 10 years. Over five years ago I also got tired of the beans and rice winter diet. That year I decided to go with service agreements for all customers with a 12 month pro rated payment plan/signed service agreement. During the summer I receive ~69% of the value of the work. Thiese are my lean times. I have 100% overhead and 69% of my income. However during the winter I receive the other ~31% for the work I have done in the summer with 0 overhead. My kids have had one *&^% of a Xmas every year since then, I have two kids in college, I eat steak and no more beans and rice. It's great and I'm only a "one man show" with a crew of three. Never looked back on that decision and never had to discount spring services to start a cash flow. Each spring I walk into my dealer and can take advantage of all the pre season discounts on new equipment and parts. I hate sharpening blades during the year. I now have enough blades that I only have to sharpen during the winter each year. I change blades every 8 days during the season. Since that time and through good record keeping of consumable parts I am able to make one parts run in the spring and thats it. In addition to thos parts I'm now purchasing the non consumables one each, tranny and clutch for Scagg and other big ticket part items. No more expidite on parts or concern if theat macine will run again tomorrow. Starter rope breaks, I pull another assembly out of the tool box, 4 bolts and I'm back in business.

Smart customers like it because they see it as it is. An interest free loan on my labor, no up and down invoices for that month that has five billable weeks. The customer can look right at the bottom line and determine immediately if they can afford the service because it is a stagnant bill each month unless they add a service such as seasonal color.

For me, it continious income over 12 months. Cash flow is important. An uniterrupted cash flow is outstanding. I have offered before but anyone that would like a copy of my service agreement is welcome to it. There is no patent on orignality Simply use my e-mail. When I get a batch I will send out one message to all requests periodically. Please subj it "Service Agreement" so it is not filtered to the trash. BTW it stands up in small claims court at least in TX.

[accuratelawn]

To answer the question, "Can you make it?", Yes you can. Be smart with your money and treat your accounts like GOLD.
Buy insurance and pay your taxes on time.

On the topic of 12 month accounts, Yes about 10% of mine are 12 month pays.

If you can't budget your money during the year with regular monthly income (bill as the work is done), you are in trouble.

Some have mentioned starving in the winter prior to going with 12 month accounts. You are earning the same amount, but you are allowing the customer to spread out the payments.

Why not receive the payments as the work is done and invest in the company or invest the money (earn some interest)?
Just a couple thoughts.

[xpnd]

Originally posted by accuratelawn


If you can't budget your money during the year with regular monthly income (bill as the work is done), you are in trouble.

Some have mentioned starving in the winter prior to going with 12 month accounts. You are earning the same amount, but you are allowing the customer to spread out the payments.

Why not receive the payments as the work is done and invest in the company or invest the money (earn some interest)?
Just a couple thoughts.

I had to respond to this before going off- line

I am an LCO not an investment banker or a professional accountant. I expend my energy and time where I get the largest return and that is not investment interest. I want dollars returned on minutes expended not pennies of investment interest. IMO a continious cash flow (even if you lose investment interest) is far superior to a 8.5 month hill that peaks in the Jun-July timeframe with no valley and a nearly straight line drop to zero for a 3 month period. Part of this is making it easier for the customer to afford lawn service. There is a reason mega giant utility companies use bill averaging. They wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't profitable in the long term.

[bobbygedd]

someone please answer me. what is a "living"? NET $30, 40, 50, what? what are u guys considering a living?

[KenH]

I think a 'living' is whatever you need it to be to support yourself and your family. This number will be different for diferent people.

Maybe a more revealing question would be "How many use their landscape business as a sole means of income to support their family??"

[bobbygedd]

well, the question was, "can one man make a living"?
my answer is no. i cannot maintain my desired lifestyle on this type of income. however, if i absolutly had to, i suppose i could scrape by. this is y i ask what u mean by "a living"? the guys who are making "a living" as a solo op, i just wonder how well they are really living. do they have enough dough to do whatever they want? can they go on vacations, out to resturaunts, buy things they dont really need? u know what im saying

[lasher66]

It is still hard to answer that question. For most people, the more you make the more you spend. (better house, better car, better lawn equipment etc.) So it always seem like your going to be scraping by unless you budget correctly. It also helps out if you have a wife that makes pretty good money and insurance so you dont have to depend on just your lawn business profit or buy health insurance to make it by. But sometimes it is worth not having the headaches from the wife too, haha . The key is to budget. I pay myself $2500 a month, then put the rest into my business account for insurance , taxes, etc. If by chance at the end of the year i have money left over, I give myself a bonus or invest it in more equipment if necessary. Hope I helped . Later

Lasher

[KenH]

Originally posted by lasher66
It also helps out if you have a wife that makes pretty good money and insurance so you dont have to depend on just your lawn business profit or buy health insurance to make it by. But sometimes it is worth not having the headaches from the wife too, haha .
Lasher

See to me, if this happens, you are not "making a living." You are just supplementing your wifes' income. JMO.

[Albemarle Lawn]

I'm pretty much in the same situation, but these 0% credit cards are for real!!!

Winters are really easy with the cheap interest rates lately.

This is a great business, I would go crazy without the time off in the winter, I'm so used to it.

After many years, I am finally rock solid financially, all equipment and trucks paid for. Just a little debt float over the winter.

KB

[Runner]

Originally posted by bobbygedd
well, the question was, "can one man make a living"?
my answer is no. i cannot maintain my desired lifestyle on this type of income. however, if i absolutly had to, i suppose i could scrape by. this is y i ask what u mean by "a living"? the guys who are making "a living" as a solo op, i just wonder how well they are really living. do they have enough dough to do whatever they want? can they go on vacations, out to resturaunts, buy things they dont really need? u know what im saying
And then there is retirement (BIG "savings") and health insurance. Sure, if you are paying for medical insurance now, what are you going to use for med insurance after you retire? YOU have to have a bunch of money set aside for that too. I' going to work full time, have my benefits, retirement, CREDIT, and social security when I retire. I'll always do this on the side, though. Without a wife, as a solo, it's a struggle. No more.

[brucec32]

I do it by myself and dumped the employee thing about 6 years ago when the bottom fell out of the quality employee pool around here. Illegal hiring of immigrants, demographic changes, low unemployment rates, and just plain cutting corners and hiring low lifes made it hard to compete with employees. Here in Georgia the "season" is about March-November, with some work done in December on some properties. The further north you go, I guess the shorter season you have.

I found the key to making it alone was productivity and being selective about what work you do...finding a "niche" where you are competitive vs. people with employees. I don't do huge properties, customers that need a lot of "grunt labor" work like flowers, mulching, landscaping, etc...because A) it tires me out too much and I can't work as long, and B) I can't consistently charge somebody $48/hour to pull weeds, but I can get up to $60/hour mowing some types of lawns. I don't make a fortune, but if I were younger I could do a lot more than I do. My limiting factor is fatigue(mostly aches and pains after work, not during the day) and boredom, not hours in the day or customers. My biggest piece of advice would be to spend on efficient equipment that more than pays for itself. $6500 or so spent on a Lazer Z ZTR was my best investment ever. Sounds like a lot at first but when you amortize it out, it's a small amount per yard mowed. It will save you hours and save wear and tear on your body.

As for winter, I keep as busy as I want doing major shrub pruning, cleanups, small projects, gutters, etc but mostly I use the time to plan, catch up on major maintenance, and rest for the next year. I prefer to just budget out my money rather than expect customers to make 12 payments a year. It all ends up the same, doesn't it? I could probably do a lot more winter type work if I really wanted it, but I don't even advertise. I prefer the time off.

It helps having a spouse who has a job with insurance benefits, and I find the two job types complement the other. I have time off that my wife doesn't to do things around the house and save money that way. It also helps if you don't have high expenses, like kids and a fancy lifestyle. We travel and have a new car every couple of years, but we don't have kids. I figure around here a young, hard working guy could max out at about $50,000 a year working 10 months a year 50 hours a week. But that would wear you out pretty fast. So it's not a great living, but it's a low stress one. It's a rare week when I even have to field a phone call at all, much less a barrage of complaint calls every day about my employees' shennanigans. I have a couple of other part time irons in the fire, but no 2nd job.

[David Gretzmier]

Now adays, we don't stop in winter. landscape, cleanups, chemical, mulching beds, christmas up and takedowns consume every day of the year, except holidays and a week off for christmas. It's miserable though. Once you are used to slowing down in the winter, it is hard to be motivated to work 40-50 hours a week in Jan.

when I was a sole propietor, I worked though to christmas on cleanups, mowing, chemical treatments. I then took off most of January to vacation, do shows, plan for next year and weld on trucks,trailers, etc. February I would do cleanups, leaves, tree work, and mulch all my customers beds w/ bulk mulch, put out pre-emergent/slow release fertilizer in beds and lawns, and do any landscape requests that came in from last year. planting shrubs, putting in retaining walls, walkways, are not that hard if you read books and follow directions. I bid the first few at labor at 45 per hour and materials marked up 10-50% and learned. try to charge per hour and work hard and do it right and customers will ask you to do more. stay away from big projects at first, but they'll find you if your fair and do good work. I filled dec,feb,march the third year of business, and had to turn down work to keep Jan open. I used to take off a week in march to mark a "transition" between mowing and my winter life.

As a "living" in my 3rd year my 1040 read about 110k in sales and about 25k of that was in the nonmowing category. I was a 3 man operation at that point and tried to keep work in the winter for my employees sake as well. my lifestyle seem to mirror my frieds who made 55-65 k per year, although I got to deduct $$$ for truck, gas, business use of spouses car, home office, most insurance, and travel/vacation to shows,plus some % of business dinners, as most of what we talk about at restaurants is-work.-which brought my taxable income to 35k. I lived and still live in mortgaged 1500 sq. ft. home, puchased trucks on 3 year notes, and took 1-2 week vacations per year and a few long weekkeds as well. and took off jan and 1-2 weeks in dec, plus snow days. had good health,life insurance.

NOW, however, I am half owner in a BIGGER lawncare company, prob. will do a mill this 2003. I only take home 35 k. my wife works and will be having our second child in Feb. my living is way worse than it was 4 years ago. if you learn nothing from this post learn this: stay small. make it as efficient as you can, use helpers but don't try another crew. take off winters. stay away from partners. they will expect you to work harder, and will 2nd guess alot of your decisions. no freedom.

Dave

[sheppard]

Dear Holder,

Started in this business this past July a year ago. Had been an employee for most of my working life. Past 10 years I was a software and hardware sales rep. The last 2 years I was burned out big time.

Got fired form my last position and remembered that 15 years ago I seriously thought about cutting grass for a living- should have done it then.

I'm 46. 30 pounds lighter since I've started this business, sleep great every night and never looked back.

Had minimal debt when I started. Got a line of credit from my banker for $25,000.00. Got all the equipment I needed. Then began to prospect like crazy.

Went from nothing in revenue cash flow to $2,500.00 a month in 3 months. Now I've got approx. $4,500.00 a month in rev. coming in.

The main component for success in my view is (ALWAYS!) desire. If you have the desire to do this and do the basic leg work, it will happen.

Cut all of your entertainment expenses, visit the library in stead of buying everything, look for good deals everywhere and tell yourself "Man! I'm glad I'm my own boss now!"

Oh, get everybody on a 12 mo. contract and go for commercial over residential (and stay away from retired senior ladies...they are killers!)

Cordially,
Sheppard

[Nebraska]

Sounds like the winter blues are hitting a lot of you guys.

This is where we separate the men from the boys...and as a result there will be a whole bunch of new trucks, new trailers, new equipment, & fresh new blood hitting the streets in the spring.

No one ever said it was going to be easy.

Funny how the grass ALWAYS seems greener on the other side for some of you.

Yes it can be done.

It's not easier but it sure is worth it!

It's in your attitude.....If I can do it starting from nothing (absolutely nothing!) with 3 children and a wife that stay's home with those children; anyone can.

[grassyfras]

IF you guys cant budget your money in the off season and think its not a part of the grass buisness you should be working for someone else rather then owning a small buisness

[GarPA]

Regarding the post above about staying small....I know 2 owners of very large mow/landscape companies...in different conversations both of them said that their personal income was higher when they were much smaller...and their stress levels were allot lower as well.

I guess we can piz and moan forever about what constitutes "making a living". But if any of you have ever been in a situation where your company shut the doors or you were downsized, you likely have a keen appreciation of the high value of YOUR business...regadless of its size...and that 'value' is that NOBODY can take it from you, or pull the rug out from under you...it is YOURS...and you have the opportunity to be as successful as you have the desire to be so....and success is not only measured in your annual salary...quality of life, a good nites sleep, peace of mind are every bit as valuable as a 6 figure salary...as someone said above, the more we make the more toys we buy....I'm only in year 2....and I sleep well

[DaddyRabbit]

I definitely know what you mean. I am employed as an EE full time w/the Govt and have my Landscaping Biz that I operate weekends and eves so it leaves me spread pretty thin. Having a full time job that pays as well as I do makes it so difficult to just throw my hands up and say, "see ya". I am incorporating 2 full employees into the mix w/3 part timers this year and I'll see how this works out. I just LOVE all the heavy equipment that's associated w/this career path, what can I say? The winters are pretty rough though w/nothing to do except for a few grading jobs. I wouldn't let this past yr influence my decision as these "Rich Republicans" have all but KILLED the economy. I think when Dubya and his "Rich Sidekick" gets their a$$e$ out of Washington you'll see things come around, Ie., Stocks, spending, housing, sales, yada yada.

[SIG]

Hey Nebraska-- You have the right attitude my man!! It is 100% about attitude!! One has to be willing and able to work the long hours and budget your money. What business owner do you know that works 8 months a year, and during those 8 months works 35 or 40 hours a week??? NOBODY!! I read some of these posts, and I am not putting anyone down, but if you want to make it big or even not so big, you gotta work and work hard and smart!!! Just saying "I own a business" is not enough, you gotta get out there and scrap a little. Good Luck to everyone out there! I will be back in this full-time next year and like Nebraska, I will make it!!!!
Sig

[Nebraska]

Sig

With all the snow we've been having it does make it fun:rolleyes:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the foothills of the Rockies have had much snow either?

Even Minneapolis has had only 5" so far..

http://wwwa.accuweather.com/adcbin/public/headlines.asp?iws=4

Yet "they" do say it's going snow eventually....

Daddyrabbit

Then YOU can pay more of THE taxes to support those that can't even make it on a full time job should Daschle or some other schmuck get back in there.

[Tony Harrell]

I think attitudes control our lives. We're all winners here because we had enough positive attitude to get it started. Some us needed a push and others jumped in without knowing how cold the water was. Regardless, we all KNOW we can make it and we're doing it. Mistakes are a part of life but, with this forum and the help of all the experienced LCO's representing here, we all have a leg up on our competition.

[The Mowerdude]

Originally posted by Tony Harrell
I think attitudes control our lives.

Tony, I agree with your post, but, we also go through periods of serious discouragement. No matter how we cut it, things are getting more and more competitive, calling for us all to be more and more careful with each penny, more aware of our bids/services etc.

I know that for years, I've wanted a Harley. It doesn't have to be a new one. I'd be perfectly happy with a late 80s model with an Evo motor. But, I haven't even been able to think about it, because every dollar that I could possibly set aside for it, is pre-spent running the business. After years of working my tail off, I have to wonder, NOT when I'll get my bike, but IF I'll ever get my bike. I dare not think about financing it, because the fast and slow nature of this business virtually guarrantees that I'll be erratic on my payments. Plus, I just do NOT need yet another monthly responsibility.

When we're all new, we have loads and loads of enthusiasm because hope is running so high. But when we've been pushing hard for many years, we're tired and we look back and it feels like we have so little to show for all of our effort, the discouragement really kicks in and it's very hard to control that. I know that I have to stay focused on the overall picture and not get mired in the little things. I know, that given enough time, things will be fine. But man I'm tellin' 'ya. It's very hard to keep it all in perspective at times. So really, when I hear of others going through the same thing, I can really relate. I pray I never disparage or trivialize others when they're discouraged as well, but rather, I hope that I can continually be a source of encouragement.

Good post, Tony

[The Mowerdude]

Originally posted by grassyfras
IF you guys cant budget your money in the off season and think its not a part of the grass buisness you should be working for someone else rather then owning a small buisness

It's not always a question of being able to budget for the off season. In this business, there are always a number of things that pop up just when we think we've got everything covered, and they throw a big wrench in the works. And usually about the time that this happens to me, I've got some "concerned" member of my family right there to tell me that if I wasn't such a freakin' loser, I wouldn't have these problems.

Knee-jerk reactions to the problems of this business are NOT at all helpful. The real problem is that, for many of us, we've extended ourselves to the limit just to get started. Now we're in the hole from the start and everything seems to conspire to keep us in the hole. I know for a fact that the lending companies and the credit card companies are diabolical in helping to keep us down. The way I like to describe this is that we need to be up on top of the wave, surfing, but instead, we're in the trough behind the wave, sinking.

Virtually every new person that gets into the business on a shoestring, experiences exactly the same situation. The only way around it is to have a very sizeable amount of investment capital - enough to provide a safety net for slack times. However, to blame these problems on our own inability to manage our money, is like saying that we're being punished for being poor. It has NOTHING to do with being a poor manager, and to say that it does, is to simply parrot a very common knee-jerk misconception. However, if we start feeling that our problems are due to our own inability to manage our money, we actually start compounding the problem by misplacing the blame. True, we do need to be good money managers, but no one, and I mean NO ONE can be blamed for mishandling money that aint there! Jeeze, give me a break.

The only way that we can compensate is to hunker down and work hard. And that simply takes time, in many cases, years.

[Lawn Tek]

Nabraska , amen brother exactly! I Have watched two friends with absolutely nothing strarting out each become multi -millionaires in the construction business . Both started two different companies , both amazingly suffered head injuries in accidents that would of caused most people to sign up for disability . They recovered from these injuries . They watched hundreds quit the construction biz . The key is DETERMINATION OF
RAGING BULL ! Dont listen to all of the negative things others say . Their wealth took about 15 years , it wont happen over nite
by golly I will not be denied success .

[Nebraska]

Pull out the want ads if you want some motivation.

Just looked at them the other night to see what other companies were paying for Lawn Care and Snow Removal......went and looked at sales positions (as a former Sales Manager) for the heck of it & nothing even peaks an interest. It was rather depressing.

[SLS]

Is it ok if I blame Bush and the "rich republicans" for the great year that I had? I darn near DOUBLED my gross revenue over last year....darn you, Bush!!! Your killing me, man!!! :D

[DaddyRabbit]

OK then, tell me how did you invest all of this $ you made under Bush and the Fat Cat Republicans? Nobody is saying there wasn't any $ to be made under this alleged leadership but my point is how did you invest it..Stocks..? Bonds.. CD's? Certainly not as you could have under the Clinton admin. as myself and many others made great money on top of good money. Don't get me wrong, I am Libertarian and don't care for either party. Simply put, this guy and his Dick in the box are perfect politicians... Crooks! The interest rates are great, yes? They are good for those of us w/jobs and are able to go to a 4.75 15 yr mortgage or new vehicles w/0% financing but what about the people say for instance that were employed under outfits such as World Com, Enron and others? I am not trying to slam you SLS so please don't take what I say personal as I don't mean it that way as I am only venting. You are probably loyal to your party but I am loyal to the wallet and vote by it as well. Oh yeah, work hard, nose to the grinding stone, back to the salt mines and positive attitude, ect ect..Sorry I jumped off the beaten path guys.

[Lawn Tek]

Never got a tax check back from a Democrat . Old George W sent me 500.00 . guess that old "fat cat " gave it back to the little guy and didnt spend it on his cigars for his mistress .:D

[Tony Harrell]

I'm a staunch Republican but, I kinda like Graham from Florida. And Shelby from Alabama. Oh..wait, he's a Republican. uh, I forgot the topic?

[SLS]

DaddyRabbit asks:

"OK then, tell me how did you invest all of this $ you made under Bush and the Fat Cat Republicans? Nobody is saying there wasn't any $ to be made under this alleged leadership but my point is how did you invest it..Stocks..? Bonds.. CD's? "

Some of it went back into my biz with upgrades...some went into stocks...very conservative "long-term" automotive stocks I hold. Buy 'em low when I can...and hang on to them. My broker hates me...heheh. Watching the Dow closing up at close to 200 points a couple of days ago has got me worried...won't be long before I can't afford 'em again. ;)

Last time I bought into CD's was way back when Reagan was in office and they were paying 18-22%. Them days are long gone I'm afraid. :(

I guess I'm showing my age. :)


No offence taken here, DaddyRabbit. We all have the need to vent sometimes.

But I cannot blame Bush for the latest ecomonic downturn...considering that my portfolio was starting to sing the blues in mid-1999...through no fault of my own. I wasn't even touching it. :cry:

I am saddened to learn that it was "W" who mis-managed Global Crossing, Enron, United Airlines, and World Com into oblivion before he became President. He should be ashamed of himself. ;)

Sorry for getting off topic.

[bobbygedd]

ok, since no one is really answering, let me put it this way: in real life, a family buys a home, and mom stays home to raise the kids, can u make it: $1400 a month mortgage. $600 a month grocery bill. $700 med benefits. $85 electric. $75 cable tv. $85 heat. $135 pre school. $100 car insurance. these are only bare neccesities and amount to $3180 per month. this does not include little things like gas for your car, clothes for the family, and a little entertainment like going to movies, entertainment parks, etc. so, a meeger exsistance still costs around $4500 per month. can u write yourself a paycheck of about $5700 per month? cus after paying taxes you will end up with that $4500. this is a gross salary of $68,400 a year, which means u probably need your business to gross around $150, 000. to me these numbers are equal to no more than a meeger lifestyle, but, u can scrape by. whos writing themselves a paycheck for $5700 per month? anyone?

[HOMER]

I'm a firm believer that we are the creators of our own problems...........the majority of the time.

I know I make a lot more than I did "down at the factory". Heck......I ought to be able to put at least $1000.00 into savings every month.......but where is it? I've put myself into a position that won't allow me to do that. I'm like the other guy that said winter is the source of all the problems, and it is in my case. Last winter sucked, got behind and try as I might I can't seem to get ahead. I like the analogy of the wave..........I use curve for mine but it all means the same. Instead of me pulling the trailer I'm pushing it. My arms are outstretched and feeding a chipper/shredder the minute a dollar comes in. I created this problem with the help of a few very friendly credit card companies, very willing car salesman and just plain stupidity. It's now up to me to get things back as they should be, somehow. We're not all perfect. I think your upbringing has a lot to do with how you handle money. If money was a big issue when you were young then it probably carried into your adult years, if there wasn't much money to handle when you were young (in my case) then there is a tendancy to handle it poorly when it starts rolling in (in my case). Life teaches us lessons every day. Maybe money is a weak link for some of us, maybe money is a GOD to some and they spend more time making and saving than they do managing their homes and family. It can be evil and it can be good. I know one thing........I'm ready and willing to get on the other side of that wave/curve..........pull the trailer rather than push it.......however you wanna say it. Reality is I'll probably never win the Lottery or Publishers Clearing house..........don't have any wealthy kin folks to inherit from............don't know Oprah or Bill Gates so here I is..........in my own little ball of turd...........punchin' and kickin' tryin' to get myself out into the clean air. Taking on more work to rid yourself of your debt never seems to work either. The harder you work seems like something comes along and costs you your profits........does me anyway. Truck tears up, septic tank gets full.........could be anything........but then again, that's life. Maybe it's time to pay a business manager or an accountant to handle all the finances? Is that the answer? The sad truth is I know I make more than some accountants, some lawyers........some of those "professionals" out there. I definately make more than my old factory buddies......so where is it? In that truck that I needed, in the mowers that I needed, in the house that I'll never complain about, took me 39 years to get that and dammit I'm keepin' it. Just wish I could do what the old timers did..............if they didn't have cash they didn't get it! Our society really doesn't think that way any more. I guess all of the problems associated with money come down to one word........PATIENCE.........I've learned that word well.......maybe there's a reason for all the drama.........just to learn PATIENCE.

I'm done.......whew.........I feel better too.

Am I alone?

[GroundKprs]

The idea of up and down cash flow is not peculiar to our trade. It is just business to understand that work, and cash flow, is cyclical. Would you rather be in retail, where your Nov-Dec sales will decide your whole year? LOL.

It doesn't really matter how the money comes in, or how it goes out. The real question is can you manage it intelligently? Do you know your expected gross and net revenues for the year? And can you live on the net? Doesn't matter if I can live on 25% of your net, or if I need 3x what you do.

So this year your truck is paid off. Great, now you have an extra $500 a month to live on? Not really, you should have been putting away for the new truck as soon as you made the first payment on this one, and now you can put more away for a better one in the future, or an additional one for expansion.

Each person has his own idea of what is a living, dollarwise. Whether you need $35K a year, or $135K, or want $535K, it's how you manage your assets that matters in the long run. And you could make any of those amounts in this business, if you have the stamina and awareness. There are people who make $100K working solo, and big operations that lose money many years.

[DaddyRabbit]

Originally posted by SLS
DaddyRabbit asks:

"OK then, tell me how did you invest all of this $ you made under Bush and the Fat Cat Republicans? Nobody is saying there wasn't any $ to be made under this alleged leadership but my point is how did you invest it..Stocks..? Bonds.. CD's? "

Some of it went back into my biz with upgrades...some went into stocks...very conservative "long-term" automotive stocks I hold. Buy 'em low when I can...and hang on to them. My broker hates me...heheh. Watching the Dow closing up at close to 200 points a couple of days ago has got me worried...won't be long before I can't afford 'em again. ;)

Last time I bought into CD's was way back when Reagan was in office and they were paying 18-22%. Them days are long gone I'm afraid. :(

I guess I'm showing my age. :)


No offence taken here, DaddyRabbit. We all have the need to vent sometimes.

But I cannot blame Bush for the latest ecomonic downturn...considering that my portfolio was starting to sing the blues in mid-1999...through no fault of my own. I wasn't even touching it. :cry:

I am saddened to learn that it was "W" who mis-managed Global Crossing, Enron, United Airlines, and World Com into oblivion before he became President. He should be ashamed of himself. ;)

Sorry for getting off topic.

I do it all of the time and can't help myself. I think as long as you have lawyers and bankers in Washington the middle class and lower class guy will get it everytime. I think they all fear the middle class more than any terrorist threat however. I have been purchasing all of the land my megar portfolio will allow me to as that seems to be a pretty safe investment if you can pay the taxes long enough to get a farm credit. I just need to lay off of ever going to any Cat or Kubota dealerships for a while :dizzy:

[LAWNS AND MOWER]

I'm right there with ya. Seems like the more we make, the more we spend. As for credit cards, it is a vicious cycle. Run low on funds in Feb., live on credit cards for a month, til the cash faucet opens back up, then intend to pay off the card in mowing season. But as you stated, breakdowns come, kids need braces,etc.... I'm not the greatest manager of $$$$, which is why I'm pushing to get more customers on a 12 month payment plan.

[cclllc]

Homer,I agree with you 100 percent.That's why I work 2 jobs and will continue to until I get my home paid for.Lord willing I am not living in an apt. and eating catfood when I retire.Someone did a poll awhile back and found out that 96 percent of americans are not financilly secure when they retire.To me that is scarey.I am not a big Dave Ramsey fan for those who know who he is but people had better start doing what he says.At least get on a budget and live on less than you make.

[rkbrown]

I love the great responses on this thread. This question is very dear to me as I am now a fulltime lco. I lost my regular job in December and the market is bleak in Houston right now for the kind of job that I had. I was part time last year with only a couple of regular accounts due to a late start and a hectic regular work schedule.

I have had emotional (confidence) ups and downs since the layoffs. My wife was homeschooling my kids. The kids will go back to public school starting Tuesday and my wife interviewed yesterday for a teaching job. I don't know if she will get it or not, but by the end of next week she should have a job that pays a little less than half of what I was making before.

I have had numerous blessings since the layoff, though. With no overt advertising, I have picked up 4 regular maintenance accounts, 2 fertilizing accounts, bid on a backyard sod job, and just this morning was called to bid on a good sized landscaping job (create beds and mulch existing beds).

I will sit in on the Texas Licensed Irrigator exam on January 24 in Houston. After that I will start studying for my applicator licence (already have the materials).

Can one person make it in this business ? I certainly hope so...I am going to do it. Will I hire help when needed ? Yes. But I plan on going solo for as long as it is feasable. My goal is for my wife to have to work and kids to be in public school for only one semester. Realistic ? Probably not. It will realistically be more like the rest of this year and next...but one semester is the goal.

[Nebraska]

Rk

It is possible. I was in the exact same boat as you a few years ago....except I voluntarily became self-employed in March. But we made the decision rather than put the kids in school versus homeschooling and for my wife to get a job; to make some major sacrifices, continue homeschooling, and move forward. Because of the importance you put on your family have you thought of something like a night job at UPS or something similar?

Email me if I can help out in any way.

[rkbrown]

Nebraska:

Thank you for the reply. I was unemployed three years ago. The duration was for a full year. I have been good at saving in the past and we had a full year of salary to fall back on...and it was needed. Now, however, we do not have that luxury. My wife is looking forward to being back in the classroom, so I think we will go with this for at least a semester. But thank you very much for the UPS idea. I had not thought about it and we have a large regional UPS terminal here at what had been Ellington AFB. I will start looking into it on Monday to see if they have night shift openings.

one of my daughters has been a particular challenge for my wife. She is very strong willed and wants to do things her way. I think that she may do better in a classroom where mommy is not the teacher...or at least gain an appreciation for homeschooling and be ready to go back in the fall.

Thanks again for the reply, support and suggestions. I may take you up on that email.

[bobbygedd]

well??????anyone???

[lawnworker]

Homer, I read your post. Ultimately time will tell if our choices are right. I came to the conclusion long ago that I would not become rich in lawncare. There is to much competition in my area. This is why I have 8 year old walkbehinds and a 1986 truck, to keep cost down.I am not saying what I do is better then anyone else.As life goes on I wonder about others who live in big homes compared to my little country home. Our house cost us 330.00 per month plus a credit line payment tied to the morgage of 200.00 . I like most would like a bigger, nicer home for my family.Will lawn care provide this? I don't know.I have lived so cheap for so long, I fret over a 20.00 tool purchase sometimes. I don't have near the customers that most on here have. Again, compitition and my own poor marketing is to blame for this. In the winter I do carpentry and painting and small household repairs. This keeps me going.I would be in deep trouble if I did not have the tools and skills to do this winter work. I would have to do twice what I do now in the spring,summer, and fall to make winter without these extra things. Frankly, I just don't want to work that hard anymore. so I spread my year out alot by doing both line of work. Each has their own headaches.

Homer, many times profits go down with increased sales due to price cutting to grow sales or the beast just cost more to run then one thinks.

Actually, how most of us are operating, lawncare business is low cost compared to other businesses. I know this sounds crazy but think about the high leases these retail people pay for stores. Some as high as 100,000 per year or more.Most of us, however, work out of our home thus saving rent payments other retail places pay. It is true Z riders and such are very high, but they, if taken care of, have a long life span and a resale value.

I long for the day when people will line up in droves to pay fifty for their 1/4 acre lawn mowing.Which in reality thats where most of us need to be at for that 64,000 per year net Bobby mentioned. Forcasting where the lawn industry is going, to me, is like tossing a handful of feathers into the wind and watching them go. When the new yellow pages come out, will there be 20 new ones this year?,like last year. Most are gone in two, but there is always the replacement crop.

On the original topic, yes we can all become well paid lawnworkers if we ,outsmart the compitition thrugh marketing, control cost and work our tales off, but it is not an easy life.

[GroundKprs]

Just a thought for anyone else pondering bobbygedd's proposition:

Note he is in NJ! That is a big consideration. I will say that cost of living for NJ is not the same all over the state. But when I moved from NJ to IN, I rented a two bedroom house in IN for 1/2 the cost of an efficiency apartment in NJ.

Location makes a big difference in cost of living, cost of doing business, and thus in how you price your business. If bobby's cost of living and doing business is 3x my cost, then he should price his service to net 3x my net for the same amount of work. This is why it is difficult, and frequently causes misunderstandings, when you try to talk specific dollar figures on a national forum.

[bobbygedd]

ah yes, indiana, where there are only 7 or 8 last names in the entire phone directory.....

[GroundKprs]

"..........7 or 8 last names........"

Ohh, my, what a fallacious insult to all us bumpkins in IN. Bobby, I'm off to count names in the phone book. Will show how wrong you are! Will have your answer next year, maybe. We count slow out here, because we only have to count 1/3 as high as people in NJ when we buy something.

But anyone out here could live pretty well on your $68,400 annual bare subsintence figure.

[Evan528]

Defintly a good point that has been brought up about cost of living diffrences across the country. I laugh everytime I read people on here talking about going for the "upper class" 2-300,000 dollar homes. In my area you cant even find a decent house for under $180- 200,000. The average 3 bedroom split level home around here with 1/4 acre lot is about $300,000. The homes in the Upper class neighborhoods you guys speak of have 7-800,000 houses here. I have discussed this very issue with several members around the country. It seems as if I could move to many states across the country and buy a big luxurious home and live a very nice lifestyle for the same amount of money its costing me here to live in a 2 bedroom town home. In my area 30 grand dosnt get ya too far....in other areas you might be able to live a decent lifestyle on that. The 60 dollars a man hour people speak of on here make not work every where. The economic situation of each area makes the living you can make doing this vary greatly.

[bobbygedd]

u like that, huh? ok, take my figures and toss em, can u pay a mortgage, health coverage, utilities, schooling for the kids, car insurance, etc, in your area, on the money u make by operating your business solo. and can u do it without sending the wife out to work?u guys seem to be avoiding answering my question. just answer it, yes or no. wherever u live, on the sole income of your solo operated business, can u afford a decent life, and a house(not renting, or apartment) and raise and educate a wife and 2 children.

[GroundKprs]

Well, bobby, there were 45 last names on the first page, and it was not a full page. First guy's last name was just "A". Wonder if we have a "B" and a "C"? As much as I like to read, I've never read the phone book. :D

I can live just fine on my income as a solo grounds maintenance contractor. No mortgage, no kids at home, but wait until you see the cost of health insurance when you get near 60, LOL. Wife has not worked for household income for 10 years, and has not worked at all (outside the home) for last 8 years. Likes her job as full time grandma.

You will not have a fabulous lifestyle as a solo doing physical labor in our society, but I think one can make a sensible living.

But then, you might want to read my philosophy on money, freedom, and success:

Money - the more you got, the more people there are trying to take it away from you.

Freedom - not having so much that you can't just walk away from it all. If you can walk away, then you're really free. Ergo, only poor people can be truly free. LOL.

Success - going home each day feeling good about putting a smile on at least one person's face. More successful = lots of people with smiles. Really successful = lots of smiles and some snotty lout, rich or poor, with a frown. ROTFLMAO

[richard coffman]

:rolleyes: here in Utah, you'd think the snow would be coming down and plenty of plowing would help ya out through the winter months, but not this year. Right now, I'm pretty tied up in bills and with hardly any income coming in other than my wife's money, it's crushing me. I do a lot of tree prunning from fall to spring time and that helpes out some. I just spent a lot of cash getting my snow plow up to date on everything and now it hasn't snow'd here but a coulpe of times with mabe an 1" or so, nothing else.
I put off getting a part time job exspecting it to snow a lot this year, but now i put my plow in my shop and are working at a temp agency, to help me just get by. I can't wait for february so i can put the hammer down and get new customers and get ready for the 1st of march to roll around. This I allowed myself to go through, but this year, I'll try to make sure i don't make the same mistake twice of not putting the money back away.:rolleyes:

richard Coffman/Owner

[Casey]

I have been reading through most of the posts on this thread and wondering what type of job you would have if you weren't in this business. I have seen other posts where people need to make 60 to 70 per hour to "exist" makes me wonder what kind of wage you would be able to command, based on your education, physical ability, health, and experience. I have friends that say they wouldn't go into any business unless they can net 50 or 60 thousand per year but they continue to get up every morning and drive to work for 12 to 15 dollars per hour (24 to 30 thousand per year). It appears to me that once you know what you could be making working for someone else, what you are willing to give up be it freedom or cash, get a real understanding of what your expenses are, your decision on whether you can make a living as an owner of any business should be an easy task.

[HOMER]

It's clear to me that Bobby is not going to get the answer he's looking for!

To the original poster: Yes......you can make a living at this, will you be wealthy? Depends on your definition of wealth.

Been doing this full time since 98 and can't think of one thing out there that I'm interested in.

[Nebraska]

Bobby...

Your answer has come indirectly through Grndkprs, Homer and a few others.

Let me know of other Labor based professions where you are going to get rich doing it ALL BY YOURSELF. If your in it to do it ALL BY YOURSELF you better LOVE the work and know that you aren't going to get MONETARILY Filthy RICH. But you can sustain a decent living. Are solo painters rich? Solo Plumbers rich? Solo Electricians? Do some live comfortable lives? YES! As well as a lot of Solo Lawn Care Operators. The one's that do better monetarily are the one's that enlist help from others (employees)... get my point.

If your in it to Build a business based upon doing something that you have a passion for; The sky is the Limit! Building a Business or Working for Yourself? There is a difference.

[DaddyRabbit]

Originally posted by bobbygedd
u like that, huh? ok, take my figures and toss em, can u pay a mortgage, health coverage, utilities, schooling for the kids, car insurance, etc, in your area, on the money u make by operating your business solo. and can u do it without sending the wife out to work?u guys seem to be avoiding answering my question. just answer it, yes or no. wherever u live, on the sole income of your solo operated business, can u afford a decent life, and a house(not renting, or apartment) and raise and educate a wife and 2 children.

Bobby, I'll try to answer your question as best I know how. It is almost impossible to have the things you've asked for and the perks that go along w/a middle class family w/out 2 working in the household. You can thank the govt for that. WW 2 was the demise of the man and only the man being the bread winner as so many women had to go to work. The govt saw a golden opportunity to increase their revenue/taxation by 50% so here we are today. I guess what everyone here is trying so eloquently to say is it's not really what you make is as important as what you save. Solo operated Biz's are psychologically devistating because you have to have the perfect frame/state of mind to see and know you're making headway and creating something and not to mention it gets very lonely. Small Biz's w/more than one are different in the perspective that you gain more grit by knowing other familys depend on your success so you dig deeper and try harder to make it all work. I for one wouldn't want to do it by myself for the simple reason I couldn't do that much or what was required should I say. If there is anyway to keep 2 guys on the payroll w/the addition of extra accounts or the subtraction of "perks" I'd certainly go for it because you'll feel more like getting up in the morning and going after it, count on it. Hope this helps.

[LAWNS AND MOWER]

Originally posted by bobbygedd
u like that, huh? ok, take my figures and toss em, can u pay a mortgage, health coverage, utilities, schooling for the kids, car insurance, etc, in your area, on the money u make by operating your business solo. and can u do it without sending the wife out to work?u guys seem to be avoiding answering my question. just answer it, yes or no. wherever u live, on the sole income of your solo operated business, can u afford a decent life, and a house(not renting, or apartment) and raise and educate a wife and 2 children.
Yes, one person can make a living. Have been for 17 years. Can one person get rich? Not many. I know I'm not getting rich, but I love my work, and sometimes that is more important. I'm in the same boat as you. Stay at home wife. Two kids. $429 health ins. premium every month. I make just a little more than I spend. Then again, income will dictate spending habits. I am a homeowner, which has bailed me out of a few tight winters with home equity loans. Ask yourself one question, "would you still work if you didn't have to?". This is a good test as to wether you are really happy with your work. My answer would be YES, without any hesitation.

[Nebraska]

Is sucess money, freedom, or happiness?

Based upon the definition, I would call Lawns and Mower Sucessful. Sounds like he has a lot of two and enough of one, of all three of the qualifications.

Bobbygeld, is any of this helping?

[IBGreen]

Most definately, you get out of it what you put into it, but that is with anything.

[bobbygedd]

yes, it is helping. im also finding that very few can actually make a living as a solo op. i personally cannot. as one man stated , income will dictate spending habits. unfortunately, ive become accustomed to a very free and carefree spending habit. ive always had more than enough money, dont know what its like to struggle. and i dont care to find out. now, this may sound like a good thing to some, to me its a curse. i started at my trade at age 18, lived at home, worked massive overtime, and made big money. save alot too. went out on my own(away from parents) at 23. shacked up with a chic(now my lovely wife), who made decent money also, we had it very easy. a young couple making over 100,000 a year, is not always a good thing, it lead to disaster. weve become accustomed to a lifestyle that allows us to spend money, go places, buy things, and just be plain irresponsible with money. so, along came the kids, mom quits the job, there was still plenty of money, but we couldnt be as careless as we used to be. unfortunately, we were too accustomed to the large income to live comfortably on only my salary, which most people could live handsomely on. so, i start cutting lawns(about 8 yrs ago) , cus i figure any moron can do it. well, for two years i got my butt wooped, lost money, no one to teach me, and no business sense. i had the other income, that kept me from going under, and today my business is very profitable. only problem is, im stuck between a rock and a hard place. i cant quit either job! as the man stated, freedom means being able to walk away from it all. im far from free. ok, now that everyone knows my life story, as far as the topic is concerned, its too risky for me to be solo and rely on it to make a living. anything can happen. broken leg, heart attack, whatever, and u lose it all. so i guess some can do it, some cant.

[GroundKprs]

Uhhh, anyone under 40 should be thinking about the long (not so long) term aspects of physical labor in the USA. According to people deep in the technology industry, who have been insiders for years and know what is being worked on for tomorrow:

By the year 2019, for $1000 you will buy a computer equal in power to a human brain. Within 10 years of that, for $1000 you will be able to get a computer equal in power to 10 human brains.

By the mid-20s, most assuredly by 2030, human physical labor in this country will be unnessary. Intelligent robots or 'droids will perform any manual task with more completeness and efficiency than a human.

So if you're just ekeing it out today, man, you're gonna starve for sure in the 20s.

[lasher66]

I dont think that robot thing is going to be that close in time. Maybe 2060 or so but not in 20 years. If it was available in 20 years , no one would be able to afford it anyways. Just my opinion.

Lasher

[bobbygedd]

and if i keep workin 2 jobs, ill be dead by then anyway

[Tony Harrell]

If that computer is modeled after my last bosses brain, there's no worries mate!

[DaddyRabbit]

Originally posted by Tony Harrell
If that computer is modeled after my last bosses brain, there's no worries mate!

LMAO! :D

[gslam88]

I have been sitting here reading all the post and seeing that a lot of people are doing good and just surviving...

I am also in a similar situation to some here...

I started a part time biz almost 2 years ago, a little trucking, a little hardscaping, had a good job, but got laid off june of this year .... found a job for a liitle while nov and dec this year... however in the 2 moths that I worked there made $350, got a piece of equipment that I needed and they still owe me $150... so I left..... could not survive on that....

So I started to plow this season with my own truck, replaced my s-10 with 145k on it... with a K2500 diesel with plow... that is also just 3 weeks before being laid off...

Well trying to cut costs I put my International Dump truck up for sale... after several months someone might buy it...

so here is my dilema, I know in the spring that I will be busy at a local yard doing deliveries for the guys... I did some work for him last year... I am pretty sure that its about 6 weeks with about $500 day gross ...

What is everyones opion, should I hold on to the truck and wait the 2 or 3 months and go full bore with it and try and make a living or sell the truck and look for something else....



Pete
:confused: :confused: :confused:

[LAWNS AND MOWER]

What happens after the 6 weeks is up?? Don't really understand your question that well.

[lawnagent]

Back to the top foor the new guy again!

[triadncman]

I guess it would be rough where winter is longer than 2 months. Thank god im in the south.

[Rustic Goat]

Originally posted by 021462

Depends on the man, er person!

[GarPA]

Amen Rustic...and it also depends on whether that person can offer some or most landscape services....if they have the knowledge and experience in other areas, they can certainly generate higher revenue and are not as susceptible to a dry season severely reducing their income.

[Torch]

Why not expand the customer base and add crews to improve profit?

[Scottish LScape]

The 1st 2 years I worked for a tree company, putting brush into the chipper. This along with snow you'll be fine. But, the most important thing is when the $$$ is coming in throughout the summer & fall...pay bills ahead, & tighten that belt a little in the winter.
Good Luck. Hard work & a smart business plan & you'll be OK.

[Laurentian]

There are a couple options for winter work that hasn't been successful to me, but might be available for some of you. UPS hires seasonal employees from the end of November to the end of the year or the big box stores need extra help around the holidays. Then for those who are tax literate take the H&R tax course and do fillings untill april 15th. Nether job is idea, but can keep you from digging too deep into those pockets.

[Old Hippy]

I have a friend who had the same problem. He got into decorative lighting that can be done anytime and really heavy in the fall to Christmas. Now several years later he has sold off the lawn care part of his biz as the lighting thing got so big.

Old Hippy

[skurkp]

My advise is not to get a winter job. I would speak to my customers and ask them if they want to keep their grass green in the winter and explain to them that everyone will want to know how they do this. If the customer does like to keep the turf in good shape and does not mind the service expence during the winter months them rye grass is the answer. You will continue mowing and that will give you an income. If the customer does not want the added expence then figure you invoicing differently. If your customers are 42 visit at $50.00 per and you service weekly March thru November and bi-weekly December thru February. Mutiply $50.00 x 42 visits = $2100.00 divide that by 12 months and that comes to $175.00 per month. Explain to your customers that they will receive an invoice each month of the year but that the monthly amount will be lower. Explain that by doing this they are paying the same amount for the 42 visits only this way allows you to have an income during the months everyone else is struggling. This is what I do and have had no complaints. Just my two cents

[lawnpro724]

Ok, I will have to admit when I first started out in 1990 it was slow going especially in winter. Now its 06 and busn. is alot better with lots of customers. I like all of you used to sit around and dread the winter months and it sucked big time, lots of $$$ in summer and poor as hell in winter. what to do? Have any of you ever considered reverse billing with your customers? I dont know how it will go over with residential customers but my commercial accounts dont care either way. I have a large customer base so this may not be right for everyone. I take some of my commercial accounts off billing cycle in summer, just enough so I have money comming in through winter and into spring. When lawn care season is about over I start billing these accounts and it gets me through winter and helps get things going in spring.

[Rustic Goat]

Sounds like robbing Peter to pay Paul, if I understand your 'plan' all you're doing is diverting your already existing billing to come in at another time of year.
Ultimately it's the same annual income, nothing extra/more. For some reason you've decided to let some of your customers keep their money longer instead of putting it in your bank.

What overall good does that do you?

Why not diverse your business, ie, get another form of income (side line) going for your non mowing months. = Greater annual income.

[WJW Lawn]

I think the best plan you can have is to save. I get a PT job in the winter to make a little something...but save up alot when Im bringing it in during the season...thats the best way.

[Thirdpete]

A winter job was really hard for me to get. Nobody wanted to hire a guy they knew would quit in a few months.
Don't tell me that I would not have had to tell them that. I have heard it 100 times and can tell you it won't work. You put on your ap your last job, and list your self as the forman of that job. Dead give away.
Besides I am not crooked enough to try some thing like that. I would not want an employee that wasn't honest enough to tell me up front.
We don't get that much snow here to pay for equip, let alone make any $.

I've done work for a flowershop during the winter. After thanksgiving they have christmas rush, then shortly after (about a month) they start with the valentines day madness. I just did work over my christmas break (4 weeks i'm still in school) but I was driving 60+ hours a week doing deliveries and whatnot and working in the shop when i wasn't doing deliveries building funeral stands, casket sprays, endbaskets, etc. money isn't great (i was getting 10/hour) but its something to keep you busy.

[Nebraska]

Wonder who's still out there when this thread was getting tossed around.

[John Deere Mann]

Lawn Service is like a farmer. Put money away for winter time. In bussiness for seven years been doing it ever sence.

[John Deere Mann]

Ok, I will have to admit when I first started out in 1990 it was slow going especially in winter. Now its 06 and busn. is alot better with lots of customers. I like all of you used to sit around and dread the winter months and it sucked big time, lots of $$$ in summer and poor as hell in winter. what to do? Have any of you ever considered reverse billing with your customers? I dont know how it will go over with residential customers but my commercial accounts dont care either way. I have a large customer base so this may not be right for everyone. I take some of my commercial accounts off billing cycle in summer, just enough so I have money comming in through winter and into spring. When lawn care season is about over I start billing these accounts and it gets me through winter and helps get things going in spring.

Know thats the way to do it!:clapping:

[lawnsaspire]

I deliver pizzas about 15 hours a week and have 4 janitorial accounts that help me through the winter, and save. And I try to live by these verses in Matthew 6:30-*If, now, God thus clothes the vegetation of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much rather clothe YOU, YOU with little faith? 31*So never be anxious and say, ‘What are we to eat?’ or, ‘What are we to drink?’ or, ‘What are we to put on?’ 32*For all these are the things the nations are eagerly pursuing. For YOUR heavenly Father knows YOU need all these things.

[milkie62]

Some of this boggles my mind.

I see some True Value hardware store people have been on the same job for 20 plus years.Now these are only family owned stores so there is only so much that they can pay.How are the employees saving for retirement at $13/hr or less or are they even thinking about it ? Same with lawn care.Onthis site guys want to pay $9/hr.Maybe as high as $15/hr.But no healthcare,or retirement and who knows if the LCO will be around in 20 yrs.I know I would not beable to live on social security alone.I have no mortgage and I need very penny of my $1500 bi-weekly paycheck.Granted my 401k is already taken out but I also have no credit card debt either .My biggest bill is car insurance having 2 teenagers---$100 wk for 4 vehicles.
My monthly bills are:
$400 ins
$500 gas
$140 cable,phone,internet
$20 cell phone-2 tracphones
$550-$600
$25 garbage
$125 electric
$200 pocket money--me and wife $25 ea per week
$25 newspaper
$100 xmas fund
$100 car repair,oil changes(I do at home),
$70 house ins
$100 savings bonds
$125 entertainment
$25 birthdays

As you can see bills are around $2500 /month.This has very little room for even a car payment and absolutely no room for a mortgage.My truck tranny went this spring,that blew my car repair budget for 2.5 yrs.What about a family vacation---try to go away for just a weekend with kids for less than $400.Oh I forgot I snowmobile---3 snowmobile registrations:$135,insurance $210,trail passes $300.
Now doctor copays,prescriptions and dentist visits
Now when I retire the only bills that should go down is gas and food but if hosting holiday dinners for kids and grandkids,presents for grandkids.But the car ins will definitely go down.I will still need the same money in retirement that I make now.
Thank god I have a matching 401k.
So I will need $30k/yr even when I am retired

What are the rest of you budgeting for retirement ?

[milkie62]

The $550-600 is food

[Richard Martin]

Wonder who's still out there when this thread was getting tossed around.

I am. And everything I posted back then is still applicable today.