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View Full Version : Daytona International Speedway infield grass...


SE Ohio Buckeye
02-19-2011, 09:37 AM
what type of grass is in the infield? It has awesome stripes. Did not think warm season grasses could stripe like that???

JB1
02-19-2011, 09:45 AM
it looks great this year.

Ric
02-19-2011, 09:53 AM
I am just guessing so don't burn me.

Bermuda strips very nicely and is used on all the Ball fields as well as Golf Courses. 419 Bermuda seems to be the work horse of athletic turf. So auto racing is a Athletic Sport so why not Bermuda??

BTW Common Bermuda home lawns are popular in North Florida and all of the South Eastern states.

tallrick
02-19-2011, 12:24 PM
I have not been there for almost 20 years but back then it was indeed bermuda. In fact, in the campground area the grass was mostly wild bermuda with some bahia.

Greg Amann
02-19-2011, 04:27 PM
I would almost bet it is winter rye.
The bermuda on the higher end golf courses here in central Florida is still dormant. Daytona is north of us a little.

tjlco
02-19-2011, 06:07 PM
I was just there Thursday, standing in the infield. It looks painted up close...I was trying to figure out the type, the blades were in my opinion, wider than rye or bermuda, but not as wide as floratam...

Hissing Cobra
02-19-2011, 06:29 PM
I've never been on the infield but I wouldn't doubt that it was painted. I work for John Deere Landscapes and when I first started here about 6 years ago, we had to do online training for certain Lesco products and our Turf paint was included. During the training, it was stated that Lesco Paint was used to paint the turf in 19 of the last 20 Super Bowls. Again, this was back in 2005, so that may have changed, especially with the increase in fake turf fields.

fl-landscapes
02-19-2011, 07:47 PM
my guess this time of the year is overseeded bermuda and its the rye that is striping and very green. Just a guess though,

Ric
02-19-2011, 08:37 PM
I would almost bet it is winter rye.
The bermuda on the higher end golf courses here in central Florida is still dormant. Daytona is north of us a little.

Greg

Good to see you posting.

I forget that only a few miles North of me and there is not a YEAR ROUND GROWING SEASON. We really don't do any Rye Over seeding here. Fl Land over seeded his personal yard last year with Rye and seeded just a hair too heavy. This year with all the freezes he didn't over seed his Bermuda and it looks Dynamite and has for several weeks now. Last year the Over Seed chocked out the Spring flush that he got this year.

My own Bermuda lawn doesn't look all that bad (no where as nice as Fl Land's Bermuda, I don't fert it). But the point is Common Bermuda seem to be giving a better spring Green up than our traditional Bahia. Bahia is supposed to Green up quicker than Bermuda.

In Edit:

Our soil is so alkaline that Bahia just doesn't do well. Bermuda is more tolerant of the Alkaline soil and grows pretty good here with little or no care.

fl-landscapes
02-20-2011, 12:56 PM
Greg

Good to see you posting.

I forget that only a few miles North of me and there is not a YEAR ROUND GROWING SEASON. We really don't do any Rye Over seeding here. Fl Land over seeded his personal yard last year with Rye and seeded just a hair too heavy. This year with all the freezes he didn't over seed his Bermuda and it looks Dynamite and has for several weeks now. Last year the Over Seed chocked out the Spring flush that he got this year.

My own Bermuda lawn doesn't look all that bad (no where as nice as Fl Land's Bermuda, I don't fert it). But the point is Common Bermuda seem to be giving a better spring Green up than our traditional Bahia. Bahia is supposed to Green up quicker than Bermuda.

In Edit:

Our soil is so alkaline that Bahia just doesn't do well. Bermuda is more tolerant of the Alkaline soil and grows pretty good here with little or no care.

Thanks for the compliment on my yard. And yes I will not overseed my lawn anymore, like you said the dormant season if any (which has been every year the past three years) is usually to short to bother and the transition looks like crap. BUT there is some very successful overseeding going on in our area at the Rays baseball spring training fields. They get the double eagle rye at lesco and overseed it, then again they have the guys with phd's and all the money in the world to have perfect fields year round.

fl-landscapes
02-20-2011, 02:43 PM
I've never been on the infield but I wouldn't doubt that it was painted. I work for John Deere Landscapes and when I first started here about 6 years ago, we had to do online training for certain Lesco products and our Turf paint was included. During the training, it was stated that Lesco Paint was used to paint the turf in 19 of the last 20 Super Bowls. Again, this was back in 2005, so that may have changed, especially with the increase in fake turf fields.

I dont watch nascar but just saw a replay on espn and see what you guys are talking about. Hissing, you may be correct, I have never seen natural grass look so green, and there is no way a striping would have that much contrast in color between the darker and lighter areas. I say its paint now that Ive seen it.

amor4421
02-21-2011, 12:05 PM
i was there on sat i is definitly painted. there was at least one car thru the infield on sat. sunday the infield was green. so i definitly think it was partly painted.

robertsturf
02-21-2011, 05:20 PM
The thing I noticed watching the race the portion by the main straight-away looked like it was scalped everyother stripe and the uncut portion was tall. You could see dirt up close where it was mowed. From a distance it looked good.

Landscape Poet
02-21-2011, 09:29 PM
. You could see dirt up close where it was mowed. .

You mean sand? :laugh:

chaser2587
02-21-2011, 09:50 PM
The stripe next to pit road was always dark... no matter if you were looking from the turn 1 side or turn 4 side. You would figure if it was real and had been rolled looking from one way the blades/stripe would be light. Either way it looked good.

indyturf
02-21-2011, 10:15 PM
I bet it looked much better on TV than it looked in person. I thought it looked very thin in the stripes that were light green, like it had been seeded or sodded in stripes and fertilized or painted stripped too.

unkownfl
02-22-2011, 12:00 AM
I would almost bet it is winter rye.
The bermuda on the higher end golf courses here in central Florida is still dormant. Daytona is north of us a little.

419 isn't dormant where I play.

Landscape Poet
02-22-2011, 12:23 AM
419 isn't dormant where I play.

unknown - going to be in Windermere with Rob in the A.M giving a sod estimate..shoot me a P.M with your cell...maybe the three of us can hook up for a early lunch?

unkownfl
02-22-2011, 12:26 AM
unknown - going to be in Windermere with Rob in the A.M giving a sod estimate..shoot me a P.M with your cell...maybe the three of us can hook up for a early lunch?

I have to do blood work then off to sanford for a mulch/mowing bid on a farm. Thanks though. Where are you getting your sod lately if you don't mind me asking?

Landscape Poet
02-22-2011, 12:28 AM
I have to do blood work then off to sanford for a mulch/mowing bid on a farm. Thanks though.

Say hello to the good ol boys of Sanford for me. Funny I am coming to your hood and you are coming to mine. What up with the blood work? Is all good?

txgrassguy
02-22-2011, 08:45 AM
Host turf is C4 - 419 Bermudagrass then overseeded with Perennial Ryegrass.
The decals are all painted using acrylic based paint with the stencils being provided by the advertisers/paint company.
I do not know how many grounds personnel are employed at the speedway now but back in the late eighties/early nineties the speedway had over fourteen full time grounds maintenance staff.

BShaffer
02-22-2011, 10:10 PM
a little bit of a limb, but this will be pretty close. The main turf is probably 419 that is very dormant. It is over seeded with probably between 600 to 900 lbs of seed an acre. The overseed has been fertilized with at least one probably two good granular products as well as alot of water soluble products on a weekly or biweekly program leading up to the race. Lots of iron for good deep color, and I m sure a tone of green paint. The mowers have been burning in lines for at least the last two weeks (burning lines is mowing in the same direction on the same line for consecutive days, can be done with warm season turf, but much easier on cool season.) This is a guess but this was always the regiment for PGA Tour tournament golf!! It has to look pretty on TV.

Ric
02-22-2011, 11:06 PM
a little bit of a limb, but this will be pretty close. The main turf is probably 419 that is very dormant. It is over seeded with probably between 600 to 900 lbs of seed an acre. The overseed has been fertilized with at least one probably two good granular products as well as alot of water soluble products on a weekly or biweekly program leading up to the race. Lots of iron for good deep color, and I m sure a tone of green paint. The mowers have been burning in lines for at least the last two weeks (burning lines is mowing in the same direction on the same line for consecutive days, can be done with warm season turf, but much easier on cool season.) This is a guess but this was always the regiment for PGA Tour tournament golf!! It has to look pretty on TV.


Bshaffer

I question the 600 to 900 pounds of over seed per acre. I believe 200 pound per acre is plenty and any more would out compete the Bremuda spring green up.

BShaffer
02-23-2011, 08:22 AM
Bshaffer

I question the 600 to 900 pounds of over seed per acre. I believe 200 pound per acre is plenty and any more would out compete the Bermuda spring green up.

Ric,

Spring green up doesn't matter, the event is showcased on TV everything is driven and prepped for that day on TV. Its a completely different way of thinking. During my time at TPC Louisiana as the assistant superintendent I became very familiar with TPC Sawgrass in Jacksonville, which I believe is 100 to 150 miles north, but at that course they would overseed with a 1000 lbs an acre, for the players championship ( which is a major golf tournament). Often times at major events they will continue to seed right up to the event so who knows what the actual lbs/ acre is. As far as competition your right. It is horrible when that ryegrass begins to check out you will have major void from the ryegrass begin so strong and the bermuda trying to break dormancy. You scalp it, stress it, aerify it, chemically kill it to get rid of it as quickly, to try to get the bermuda going as quickly as possible. Transitioning turf is one of the hardest most nerve racking things that we do to turf. There has been a tremendous amount of research done on overseeding, and it takes between 90 and 120 days for the bermuda to get back to original condition. So you do the math mid May you finally get to good bermuda growing weather (at least 65 to 70 at night) then you are scalping and prepping for seed again in late September or earlier October. Its not much time to get it grown back in and ready to overseed again. TPC Sawgrass was always a nightmare in the summer time, thats one of many reasons they moved that tournament and play it now in mid May. When you banging people for 320 dollar a per person/ per round the golf course better be in good shape.

Ric
02-23-2011, 10:50 AM
Ric,

Spring green up doesn't matter, the event is showcased on TV everything is driven and prepped for that day on TV. Its a completely different way of thinking. During my time at TPC Louisiana as the assistant superintendent I became very familiar with TPC Sawgrass in Jacksonville, which I believe is 100 to 150 miles north, but at that course they would overseed with a 1000 lbs an acre, for the players championship ( which is a major golf tournament). Often times at major events they will continue to seed right up to the event so who knows what the actual lbs/ acre is. As far as competition your right. It is horrible when that ryegrass begins to check out you will have major void from the ryegrass begin so strong and the bermuda trying to break dormancy. You scalp it, stress it, aerify it, chemically kill it to get rid of it as quickly, to try to get the bermuda going as quickly as possible. Transitioning turf is one of the hardest most nerve racking things that we do to turf. There has been a tremendous amount of research done on overseeding, and it takes between 90 and 120 days for the bermuda to get back to original condition. So you do the math mid May you finally get to good bermuda growing weather (at least 65 to 70 at night) then you are scalping and prepping for seed again in late September or earlier October. Its not much time to get it grown back in and ready to overseed again. TPC Sawgrass was always a nightmare in the summer time, thats one of many reasons they moved that tournament and play it now in mid May. When you banging people for 320 dollar a per person/ per round the golf course better be in good shape.


B

Well I hope it is worth the added expense and time to recover from that one day special.

I have heard horror stories about TV camera crews holding Greenskeepers to the fire for the right grass color on TV. On that note I think live TV could make the turf purple if they wanted.

BShaffer
02-23-2011, 09:23 PM
B

Well I hope it is worth the added expense and time to recover from that one day special.

I have heard horror stories about TV camera crews holding Greenskeepers to the fire for the right grass color on TV. On that note I think live TV could make the turf purple if they wanted.

It is or they wouldn't do it. Thats just how much money they make!! Your right about the TV cameras, they will put different color lenses on to hide certain colors. Again all about TV. Thats the hoops you jump through. Thats pressure.

SE Ohio Buckeye
02-24-2011, 09:11 AM
Thanks all. Quite an array of answers. Prolly a combo of paint and rye! lol

txgrassguy
02-24-2011, 09:24 AM
Ric, the TPC (parent arm of the PGA) has a set of standards concerning course conditioning more specifically addressing uniformity among the courses with ball roll distance - most commonly misidentified as green speed.
Second most important are addressed is contiguous turf density which is achieved at courses through aggressive and continual overseeding of host turf regardless of species.
Tournament guidelines require specific course conditions including the playability of bunkers as well - this is what drives how a specific course is prepared and not the visual spectrum associated with televised color capability.
In over twenty years of mucking around courses both as a super and construction super plus some time spent actually working for the TPC (which I will never do again) turf color as seen through a television camera lens was never mentioned.
Course conditioning at an identified venue is a minimum three year event meaning once a non-TPC owned course has been selected and vetted the staff Agronomist's meet with the host course super to lay out a very specific maintenance/development course which must be adhered too.
Regarding the overseeding, it was quite common to start at 350 lbs per acre as an initial point with final overseed amounts approaching 860 lbs per acre to achieve the required turf density.
Btw, you can thank Augusta National and their hyper excessive maintenance protocols for this drive towards perfection.

Ric
02-24-2011, 09:40 AM
Ric, the TPC (parent arm of the PGA) has a set of standards concerning course conditioning more specifically addressing uniformity among the courses with ball roll distance - most commonly misidentified as green speed.
Second most important are addressed is contiguous turf density which is achieved at courses through aggressive and continual overseeding of host turf regardless of species.
Tournament guidelines require specific course conditions including the playability of bunkers as well - this is what drives how a specific course is prepared and not the visual spectrum associated with televised color capability.
In over twenty years of mucking around courses both as a super and construction super plus some time spent actually working for the TPC (which I will never do again) turf color as seen through a television camera lens was never mentioned.
Course conditioning at an identified venue is a minimum three year event meaning once a non-TPC owned course has been selected and vetted the staff Agronomist's meet with the host course super to lay out a very specific maintenance/development course which must be adhered too.
Regarding the overseeding, it was quite common to start at 350 lbs per acre as an initial point with final overseed amounts approaching 860 lbs per acre to achieve the required turf density.
Btw, you can thank Augusta National and their hyper excessive maintenance protocols for this drive towards perfection.

Steve

I should be ashamed to admit I have a AS in Golf Course Management. But that was the only close program at the time I was going back to college for any Horticultural program I could take. Problem was I don't play Golf and have no desire to work for a Golf Course. So almost everything I learned about a Golf Course was spewed upon a test paper to be forgotten forever.

fl-landscapes
02-24-2011, 10:09 AM
Ric, the TPC (parent arm of the PGA) has a set of standards concerning course conditioning more specifically addressing uniformity among the courses with ball roll distance - most commonly misidentified as green speed. Second most important are addressed is contiguous turf density which is achieved at courses through aggressive and continual overseeding of host turf regardless of species.
Tournament guidelines require specific course conditions including the playability of bunkers as well - this is what drives how a specific course is prepared and not the visual spectrum associated with televised color capability.
In over twenty years of mucking around courses both as a super and construction super plus some time spent actually working for the TPC (which I will never do again) turf color as seen through a television camera lens was never mentioned.
Course conditioning at an identified venue is a minimum three year event meaning once a non-TPC owned course has been selected and vetted the staff Agronomist's meet with the host course super to lay out a very specific maintenance/development course which must be adhered too.
Regarding the overseeding, it was quite common to start at 350 lbs per acre as an initial point with final overseed amounts approaching 860 lbs per acre to achieve the required turf density.
Btw, you can thank Augusta National and their hyper excessive maintenance protocols for this drive towards perfection.

measured with the "stimpmeter". Good info here grass. I would only say the stimpmeter reading are uniform to non major events. We both know u.s., british open and especially the masters tend to pride themselves on much faster (putting in a bath tub) greens.

txgrassguy
02-25-2011, 08:58 AM
measured with the "stimpmeter". Good info here grass. I would only say the stimpmeter reading are uniform to non major events. We both know u.s., british open and especially the masters tend to pride themselves on much faster (putting in a bath tub) greens.

The original purpose of the stimpmeter was to quantitatively evaluate through a uniform measurement the ball roll distance among the greens on a golf course.
Dude by the name of Edward Stimpson developed it around 1935 or so and it was adopted by mostly NE golf course supers to start. It wasn't until the mid eighties or so that televised golf and those ridiculously pendantic and often incorrect commentators picked up on ball roll distance as a popularized method to spout drivel about what green is "faster" at the venue.
Singularly the worst thing for putting green health and the term "green speed" has resulted in more gc supers experiencing hemorrhoidal jackass greens committee bullcrap ordering lower heights of cut instead of correct management practices to increase ball roll distance.
And for general knowledge the USGA classifies ball roll distance in groups, like 8.5' to 9.5' being medium for high volume courses, 9.5' to @11' being classified as "fast" and tournament distance is expected to be 11.5' and above. These values may have changed from when I set up courses for tournaments. As a comparison, at Augusta National, the 'average' ball roll distance was 18.5'+ with a few of the test/evaluation greens pushing 21'. And this was back in the early nineties. Lord only knows what it has risen to now.

When I ran the several course I had previously I utilized the stimpmeter and three Titlist balata covered balls, the precursor to the Pro-V series and at one muni in course in particular averaging 64,000 rounds per year I achieved a uniform ball roll distance of 11.5' at a height of cut around 0.150" with tri-plex mowers. Good turf density, great resilience and turgor with no disease issues on what started out as L-93 bent and I interseeded my personal favorite PennCross. Those twenty greens were my babies and man did they roll well. I "experimented" one time for a club pro only tournament to increase the ball roll distance as requested by my courses' pro and got the soil based greens to roll beyond 15' without lowering the height of cut by rolling with a concrete roller in three directions three times per week prior to the event. Then sat back and listened to the primal screams from those other "pros" who couldn't putt worth a damn. Man what a great day! You could hear those guys torment from three fairways away.

Sorry about hi-jacking the thread.

fl-landscapes
02-25-2011, 09:27 AM
seen quite a few smiley faces on those balata balls, cover too soft.