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icex
02-20-2011, 11:28 PM
I got a call to look at a creek dredging job. The last flood in may 2010 washed alot of sediment down the creek. He wants the area marked in red dug out to the rock cliff and put back on the bank, raising the bank up higher and using the rocks for support of the bank. I realy have no idea on how to bid this, usualy I bid by the hour but his insurance company requests a total price bid. I am thinking of renting a JD 120 to use for this.

I tried to make this picture in paint with what I was talking about, but it doesent show up good. He wants the material cleared out all the way to the rock cliff to make the creek flow against the rock cliff and not cutting his bank out.

The creek is about 500 yards long, 10-15 ft wide. About 250 yards of the creek is filled in, the other half of the creek just needs straightened up. He thinks it will take two weeks, I say 2-3 days max.


http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz56/icex2012/IMG_1929_1.jpg

Here are the rest of the pictures:

http://s813.photobucket.com/albums/zz56/icex2012/

tnmtn
02-20-2011, 11:44 PM
what does he want you to do with the trees?

icex
02-20-2011, 11:46 PM
what does he want you to do with the trees?

He is wanting to cut them himself and then have me dig the stumps out, but I think it would be better for me to bring them down with the excavator and move them were he wants them instead of digging the stumps all day long. I am guessing he will probaly lay them on the bank.

icex
02-21-2011, 01:48 AM
I also would like to add that I am considering sloping the banks once done and stacking those rocks out of the creek on the bank like rip rap. If I was to do it this way should I use geotextile fabric, and if so were can you find it at?

hoeman376
02-21-2011, 04:31 AM
I got a call to look at a creek dredging job. The last flood in may 2010 washed alot of sediment down the creek. He wants the area marked in red dug out to the rock cliff and put back on the bank, raising the bank up higher and using the rocks for support of the bank. I realy have no idea on how to bid this, usualy I bid by the hour but his insurance company requests a total price bid. I am thinking of renting a JD 120 to use for this.

I tried to make this picture in paint with what I was talking about, but it doesent show up good. He wants the material cleared out all the way to the rock cliff to make the creek flow against the rock cliff and not cutting his bank out.

The creek is about 500 yards long, 10-15 ft wide. About 250 yards of the creek is filled in, the other half of the creek just needs straightened up. He thinks it will take two weeks, I say 2-3 days max.


http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz56/icex2012/IMG_1929_1.jpg

Here are the rest of the pictures:

http://s813.photobucket.com/albums/zz56/icex2012/

If he thinks it will take 2 weeks then do it in a week and charge a 135 a hr, that comes to 5400 for a week for 40 hours. I would just say 5500 and drag it out through out the week . Dont ever say 2-3 days max because that usually turns out to be a nightmare its a curse of the jobs .

hoeman376
02-21-2011, 04:33 AM
Or bid it by the yard.

icex
02-21-2011, 07:26 AM
If he thinks it will take 2 weeks then do it in a week and charge a 135 a hr, that comes to 5400 for a week for 40 hours. I would just say 5500 and drag it out through out the week . Dont ever say 2-3 days max because that usually turns out to be a nightmare its a curse of the jobs .



That was a ball park number I was thinking also. I may have my 304 mini there also working so I was thinking a bid of 7000-8000 as at the end of his property line at the creek it is almost completely filled in and will take awhile to clean that area also.

wanabe
02-21-2011, 10:12 AM
Better get the government approval on this one. I took some trees out by a creek one time and the next thing I know was that a neighbor turned me into the army core of engineers, then we had to have a meeting with them on site, and look everything over. Thankfully everything was ok, but had I been in the creek doing any work they were going to fine me.

bobcat_ron
02-21-2011, 10:21 AM
I would price that job by the day, Dirtman has some really good pics on how he does bank repair work and what he uses.
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icex
02-21-2011, 11:03 AM
Better get the government approval on this one. I took some trees out by a creek one time and the next thing I know was that a neighbor turned me into the army core of engineers, then we had to have a meeting with them on site, and look everything over. Thankfully everything was ok, but had I been in the creek doing any work they were going to fine me.

I figured I would need a permit. I wonder how hard it will be to get it approved for this job? It's flood prevention, so hopefully it will be pretty simple.

jefftb
02-21-2011, 03:48 PM
Here in TN you need an ARAP permit. Aquatic Resource Alteration Permit.

Go digging through the creek here and it can be a big fine. That's if you're just crossing it let alone wallowing straight through 200 yards of it.

They will generally want you to have some sediment or siltation abatement plan presented prior to doing anything.

You should be able to go to the WV-DENR to check. Sometimes you can have one in a few weeks, it'd take longer than that here for this job.

bobcat_ron
02-21-2011, 04:08 PM
Do it on a weekend, no one important will see you.

icex
02-21-2011, 05:15 PM
I just called on geotextile fabric.. looking at $400 a roll for a 15x300 ft roll. This sound reasonable for the fabric?

J. Peterson Grading
02-21-2011, 05:39 PM
Don't use any fabric. You want vegitation to grow through the rock. The grasses root systems will do a great job holding the bank in place. The rock thats being placed will keep the bank stable untill the vegitation takes hold.

J.

icex
02-21-2011, 05:46 PM
Don't use any fabric. You want vegitation to grow through the rock. The grasses root systems will do a great job holding the bank in place. The rock thats being placed will keep the bank stable untill the vegitation takes hold.

J.

J,

Anyway I can talk to you on the phone or over IM for a few minutes?

This guy wants gabion baskets and nothing but gabion baskets.

icex
02-21-2011, 07:04 PM
What is a base figure on gabion basket installation? Thinking $50-100 per basket installed?

J. Peterson Grading
02-21-2011, 07:43 PM
I pm'd you my contact info. I will help if I can.

J.

YellowDogSVC
02-21-2011, 07:55 PM
The clean water act will probably apply to this job BUT if you are far enough upstream and isolated enough, you can limit government intrusion but make sure you use BMP's and limit the water turbidity. I don't think this would be considered a wetland but you never know and affecting anyone downstream can be troublesome BUT repairing a creek or restoring a creek isn't the same as damning it up or diverting it. In Texas, you are supposed to get permission to work in the creeks BEFORE you start.
This is something I want to do more and more of too so let's hear from more of you guys that do this..

dozerman21
02-21-2011, 08:30 PM
I would bid it by the day or bid it high if you're not sure how long it will take. Definitely get whatever permits needed before you start. I would find out exactly what they want as far as the rocks go. Stacking them like you're thinking will take some time and could be an issue if you bid by the job.

Before you bid anything, I would call in locates for any possible utilities. I turned down a larger creek job in a subdivision last year after I called in locates. Phase 3 power, telephone, and gas lines all ran through the creek. The job wasn't worth the risk.

icex
02-21-2011, 08:32 PM
I would bid it by the day or bid it high if you're not sure how long it will take. Definitely get whatever permits needed before you start. I would find out exactly what they want as far as the rocks go. Stacking them like you're thinking will take some time and could be an issue if you bid by the job.

Before you bid anything, I would call in locates for any possible utilities. I turned down a larger creek job in a subdivision last year after I called in locates. Phase 3 power, telephone, and gas lines all ran through the creek. The job wasn't worth the risk.

I have a estimate in my head now thanks to help from a member.

There is nothing ran underground here, its all above ground. I will call 811 before hand though. Even gas lines are laid above ground for some reason. Farther north they arent, though.

Dirtman2007
02-21-2011, 09:38 PM
So the insurance company is going to cover errosion by mother nature?


I'd throw my 210 down in there and hurl all that up on the bank in a day. 1200yards wouldn't take long. I'd leave all stumps possible, no need to rip out a tree thats holding the bank in the first place.

Looks already like rip rap size rocks and sand. Just pile all the small stuff up and then line the bottom of the bank with the larger rocks to hold it.
As long and you make the channel straight and the way it should it will be fine. Although I'm going by a picture it sounds like your making it harder than it is but thats just me.

icex
02-21-2011, 09:41 PM
So the insurance company is going to cover errosion by mother nature?


I'd throw my 210 down in there and hurl all that up on the bank in a day. 1200yards wouldn't take long. I'd leave all stumps possible, no need to rip out a tree thats holding the bank in the first place.

Looks already like rip rap size rocks and sand. Just pile all the small stuff up and then line the bottom of the bank with the larger rocks to hold it.
As long and you make the channel straight and the way it should it will be fine. Although I'm going by a picture it sounds like your making it harder than it is but thats just me.

Well, the problem is, I wanted to pile all of that material on the bank to build the bank higher, slope the bank and add the rocks as rip rap. However, he wants Gabion baskets installed and won't settle for anything less. I highy doubt the insurance will cover this project, but a $8,000 project has turned into a $40,000 project for the gabion baskets and rip rap.

Dirtman2007
02-21-2011, 09:57 PM
Well, the problem is, I wanted to pile all of that material on the bank to build the bank higher, slope the bank and add the rocks as rip rap. However, he wants Gabion baskets installed and won't settle for anything less. I highy doubt the insurance will cover this project, but a $8,000 project has turned into a $40,000 project for the gabion baskets and rip rap.

I've worked for plenty of people with more money than brains, but hey if he wants them price it that way.

I think its way overkill for a creek in the mountains? Either way Id look at being in and out as QUICK as possible, you don't need to be playing in a mountain stream no longer than you have to, could lead to some little white trucks with government tags on your job. ask me I know:rolleyes:

icex
02-21-2011, 10:00 PM
I've worked for plenty of people with more money than brains, but hey if he wants them price it that way.

I think its way overkill for a creek in the mountains? Either way Id look at being in and out as QUICK as possible, you don't need to be playing in a mountain stream no longer than you have to, could lead to some little white trucks with government tags on your job. ask me I know:rolleyes:

Haha, Chris I have to hear the story on it.

Anyway, he claims his insurance will cover it. I want to see it when it happens. Since he thinks his insurance will cover it, I am more than happy to quote him gabion baskets, but I am pretty sure insurance will deny it. If insurance approves it then I will apply for the permit through the army corps of engineers.

icex
02-23-2011, 08:43 PM
Well I placed my bid today. He woul NOT settle for anything but gabion baskets, so thats what I figured in to my bid. I asked several people and came out to a $100 per cubic feet labor rate for the baskets. He also changed the plans of the creek and wants all the material brought back onto the bank and make the bank longer out. Total bid was $85,185.50. After relooking at the creek there are alot of bends and curves so I figured in 550 feet which comes out to 93 gabion baskets, 651 ton of rip rap rock and 372 cubic feet of fill for all the baskets.

I expect the project to take about a month to complete, although I doubt insurance is going to pay for it. I also talked to the army corps of engineers and they want detailed drawings and all this and that bullshit.

tmf lawn care
02-23-2011, 10:50 PM
good luck with that. I did a job like that yrs back it. Was a pain the state was on me the whole time i did it.

icex
02-23-2011, 11:05 PM
good luck with that. I did a job like that yrs back it. Was a pain the state was on me the whole time i did it.

I hear you. The army corps of engineers told me they wouldent even come look at the project, I have to draw maps out and take it to their office. I told them if they want me to have a permit they can meet me half way. lol

Dirtman2007
02-23-2011, 11:10 PM
I hear you. The army corps of engineers told me they wouldent even come look at the project, I have to draw maps out and take it to their office. I told them if they want me to have a permit they can meet me half way. lol

Yeah they want me to get a permit for dredging the lake I just finished today... looks like thats not going to happen LOL

icex
02-23-2011, 11:16 PM
Yeah they want me to get a permit for dredging the lake I just finished today... looks like thats not going to happen LOL

I'd tell them to kiss my ass. lol

The funny thing is, the guy I talked to was like "If you don't touch the stream you don't need a permit, or if it is life threatning you do not need a permit" so I told him it washed the guys foundation from under his house and he still said I needed a permit. Ah, good ole government.