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JFGLN
02-26-2011, 12:21 AM
How will using a product like Nulife which uses iron to kill moss affect soil micro organisms?

http://agr.wa.gov/pestfert/fertilizers/fertdb/prodinfo.aspx?pname=3564

We are encouraging our customers to switch to organics but moss is a big problem in our area.

ICT Bill
02-26-2011, 09:50 AM
How will using a product like Nulife which uses iron to kill moss affect soil micro organisms?

http://agr.wa.gov/pestfert/fertilizers/fertdb/prodinfo.aspx?pname=3564

We are encouraging our customers to switch to organics but moss is a big problem in our area.

We (Barry and I) just saw a presentation yesterday by a landscaper that embraces moss rather than fighting it, he showed many sites where he encouraged its growth and they were magnificant, especially under trees where it would be difficult at best to grow turf

I say go with it

phasthound
02-26-2011, 11:55 AM
I do ACT applications at the sites Bill mentioned. I always make sure I have some time to lay on the moss under the trees for 5 minutes. Wonderful.

JFGLN
02-26-2011, 01:08 PM
We (Barry and I) just saw a presentation yesterday by a landscaper that embraces moss rather than fighting it, he showed many sites where he encouraged its growth and they were magnificant, especially under trees where it would be difficult at best to grow turf

I say go with it

The moss doesn't necessarily bother me. I often suggest letting the moss take over or just remove the lawn in heavy shade areas. I worked for an organic lawn company in Seattle (no chemicals) where we used the thatcher to remove moss.


So, back to the question, Is moss killer a "bad" thing? Is it harmful to microorganisms?

ICT Bill
02-26-2011, 01:24 PM
The moss doesn't necessarily bother me. I often suggest letting the moss take over or just remove the lawn in heavy shade areas. I worked for an organic lawn company in Seattle (no chemicals) where we used the thatcher to remove moss.


So, back to the question, Is moss killer a "bad" thing? Is it harmful to microorganisms?

pretty broad question and hard to answer with a yes or no

the soil and its critters are very dynamic if you remove the moss you are removing a whole bunch of food for things that are depending on it right now, they will die off or go into spore or dormant form and be replaced by critters that like the environment that you change it into

look up succession in soils and it will give you an idea of how soils progess and the critters that support them

JFGLN
02-26-2011, 01:43 PM
This is how we are currently dealing with moss which keeps it down to tolerable levels. Can I claim that we are organic if we are using moss killer? Mostly organic?

1 Apply moss killer.
2 Aeration.
3 Spread compost(sometimes)
4 Overseed.

ICT Bill
02-26-2011, 01:53 PM
This is how we are currently dealing with moss which keeps it down to tolerable levels. Can I claim that we are organic if we are using moss killer? Mostly organic?

1 Apply moss killer.
2 Aeration.
3 Spread compost(sometimes)
4 Overseed.

do you guys compost your own stuff?
the reason I ask that is have you tried to munipulate the make up of the compost so it is more alkaline, what is the typical soil pH there and what kind of soil is it

starry night
02-26-2011, 07:53 PM
It sounds to me like you are fighting a losing battle with your methods.

Moss will just return if you don't change the site conditions.
Damp shade, poor air circulation, and usually low nitrogen = moss.

tombo82685
02-26-2011, 08:53 PM
I would just do cultural things that limit the moss.

Moss likes low ph, wet soils, shady conditions. So i would try and raise your ph. Aerate more often and improve your soil characteristics. Allow more sunlight to penetrate the area by trimming lower branches.

JFGLN
02-26-2011, 10:09 PM
I would just do cultural things that limit the moss.

Moss likes low ph, wet soils, shady conditions. So i would try and raise your ph. Aerate more often and improve your soil characteristics. Allow more sunlight to penetrate the area by trimming lower branches.

We do all that. I understand why we have moss. My question was about what affect, if any, does using moss control products have on soil microorganisms.

Here is a quote from WSU Extention,

"Moss can be killed with products containing ferrous sulfate, ferrous ammonium sulfate, including Moss-Out, Moss-Kil, Rid-Moss, and a variety of Lawn Fertilizers with Moss Control; or moss & algae killing soaps such as Safer's. None of these materials pose serious threats to the environment; in fact iron and sulfur are essential nutrients for grasses and tend to improve their color. Although these products will kill existing moss, unless the underlying conditions are changed, moss or other weeds are likely to reappear."


http://gardening.wsu.edu/library/lawn003/lawn003.htm

http://gardening.wsu.edu/column/09-20-98.htm

tombo82685
02-27-2011, 12:09 PM
We do all that. I understand why we have moss. My question was about what affect, if any, does using moss control products have on soil microorganisms.

Here is a quote from WSU Extention,

"Moss can be killed with products containing ferrous sulfate, ferrous ammonium sulfate, including Moss-Out, Moss-Kil, Rid-Moss, and a variety of Lawn Fertilizers with Moss Control; or moss & algae killing soaps such as Safer's. None of these materials pose serious threats to the environment; in fact iron and sulfur are essential nutrients for grasses and tend to improve their color. Although these products will kill existing moss, unless the underlying conditions are changed, moss or other weeds are likely to reappear."


http://gardening.wsu.edu/library/lawn003/lawn003.htm

http://gardening.wsu.edu/column/09-20-98.htm

I would think you would be fine. The article says it has iron and sulfur in it which is present in most of your fertilizers, and they don't hurt the micro organisms. Where you get into trouble with killing micro organisms is using insecticides or a soil fumigant, because that stuff has to be water or injected into the soil profile. these products just seems like it is sprayed onto the moss and not. The products should have a label, i would just read that and see what it says. From my thinking it sounds like its fine.

TMarch
02-27-2011, 01:13 PM
Go to this site http://www.mossbuster.com/
I've seen research on golf courses for years on moss. This new product is getting great results

starry night
02-27-2011, 01:35 PM
Go to this site http://www.mossbuster.com/
I've seen research on golf courses for years on moss. This new product is getting great results

The OP says he knows HOW to get rid of moss. The question is what these products do to the soil microbiology.
And ICT Bill's answer is probably as close as we can come.

ICT Bill
02-27-2011, 11:16 PM
We do all that. I understand why we have moss. My question was about what affect, if any, does using moss control products have on soil microorganisms.

Here is a quote from WSU Extention,

"Moss can be killed with products containing ferrous sulfate, ferrous ammonium sulfate, including Moss-Out, Moss-Kil, Rid-Moss, and a variety of Lawn Fertilizers with Moss Control; or moss & algae killing soaps such as Safer's. None of these materials pose serious threats to the environment; in fact iron and sulfur are essential nutrients for grasses and tend to improve their color. Although these products will kill existing moss, unless the underlying conditions are changed, moss or other weeds are likely to reappear."


http://gardening.wsu.edu/library/lawn003/lawn003.htm

http://gardening.wsu.edu/column/09-20-98.htm

Rather than killing think about going with the flow on a site, often it is difficult to compete with trees and environmental factors

I guess I am not getting the question, why are you worried about the soil microcrobes???? If you change the environment you will change the make up of the relevant soil microorganinisms

again look up succession in soils

JFGLN
02-28-2011, 12:30 AM
Rather than killing think about going with the flow on a site, often it is difficult to compete with trees and environmental factors

I guess I am not getting the question, why are you worried about the soil microcrobes???? If you change the environment you will change the make up of the relevant soil microorganinisms

again look up succession in soils




I think I approached this question wrong. What I was really asking is how these moss control products fit in with an organic approach to lawn care. About 3 years ago we began switching our clients to organic fertilizers and very low pesticide use. We plan on adding compost tea later this year and eliminating all pesticide use. Did you take a look at the links I posted? We do most of the things suggested in the articles.

JFGLN
02-28-2011, 12:38 AM
ICT Bill, You should come up with a moss control product for your Earth Harvest Organics line.

ICT Bill
02-28-2011, 08:50 AM
ICT Bill, You should come up with a moss control product for your Earth Harvest Organics line.

Its called Ca Fe Lime "Ca Fe" stands for Calcium and Iron
for some reason the site would not let me put Ca and Fe together, it just showed ****

I did not get a chance to go to the links, its spring in my world all work and no play

ICT Bill
02-28-2011, 09:01 AM
Go to this site http://www.mossbuster.com/
I've seen research on golf courses for years on moss. This new product is getting great results

OH Jeez
"The EPA has listed this product as a reduced risk biochemical"
there is no such designation by the EPA, if you can find it I would be very surprised

"Moss Buster is composed of all natural plant extracts and essential oils. It is child and pet friendly 20 minutes after it has been applied!"

so it is not child and pet friendly before that, what if it takes longer than that to dry?

OVER $100.00 per 1000 sq ft you have got to be kidding me

Kiril
02-28-2011, 09:13 AM
OH Jeez
"The EPA has listed this product as a reduced risk biochemical"
there is no such designation by the EPA, if you can find it I would be very surprised

Come on Bill.

http://www.epa.gov/PR_Notices/pr97-3.html

ICT Bill
02-28-2011, 10:56 AM
Come on Bill.

http://www.epa.gov/PR_Notices/pr97-3.html

I stand by my first statement there is no EPA designation "reduced risk biochemical" they have "reduced risk pesticides" but not "biochemical"

Kiril
02-28-2011, 01:35 PM
I stand by my first statement there is no EPA designation "reduced risk biochemical" they have "reduced risk pesticides" but not "biochemical"

You would read it as a more specific classification of a reduced risk pesticide, per the language of the link document.