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View Full Version : Is Roundup Necessary Before Cultivation for Rennovation?


DavidNJ
02-26-2011, 11:43 PM
Renovating 30-50k sqft. A lot of it looks like the pictures below. The soil cultivator on the Toro Dingo should bury all the weeds and odd patches of grass.

However, should it be killed first with Roundup? Tenacity or Imprellis will be used as a pre-emergent. The seed is Lebanon Turf Winning Colors Tall Fescue Mix.

Recommendations?

RigglePLC
02-27-2011, 12:11 PM
I say yes--use the Roundup--You many have some tough weeds that are difficult to clean up in your new lawn. Veronica comes to mind. Burying weeds or their seed, or cutting them in little pieces with a tiller may not be enough. You might as well take the opportunity to get a clean start. I think I see moss. I don't think Roundup will help for moss, but maybe someone has experience in this matter and can advise you. Burying clumps of grass will not get rid of all of it. Get a clean start. It will make the tilling much easier also. You don't want to end up raking up 1000 pounds of grass clumps. JMHO.

DavidNJ
02-28-2011, 11:48 PM
Roundup kills growing weeds, but what about seeds? If Imprellis or Tenacity is going to be used as a pre-emergent, and the soil cultivator will bury the existing weeds, will Roundup add any benefit?

RigglePLC
03-01-2011, 10:44 AM
Roundup will do nothing for weed seeds. I have no experience with Tenacity. I feel that burying weeds will kill some, but some types, especially perennials will just sprout up through the soil, roots and rhizomes are the main problem. I feel that tillage will do nothing for quackgrass, violets, and nutsedge-they have rhizomes. A pre-emergent won't help either.

StoneFaced
03-01-2011, 10:58 AM
Will Tenacity or Imprellis know the difference between what is weed seed and Tall Fescue?

I'm not familiar w/ either, but some pre emergents are effective for upwards of 90-120 days.

DavidNJ
03-01-2011, 02:13 PM
Will Tenacity or Imprellis know the difference between what is weed seed and Tall Fescue?

I'm not familiar w/ either, but some pre emergents are effective for upwards of 90-120 days.

Yes, and I believe both have roles as both pre-emergent and post-emergent.

The underlying issue is: if weed seeds are the issue, will Roundup really be a useful if used in addition?

TopNotchMowing
03-06-2011, 09:09 PM
Tenacity isn't labeled for residential use yet, so I'd look for something different.

DavidNJ
03-06-2011, 09:40 PM
Tenacity isn't labeled for residential use yet, so I'd look for something different.

The residential labeled 8oz size will be out this month; the larger size gets the label in June/July.

humble1
03-22-2011, 09:46 PM
Why not kill it, flail blade dethatch it, remove the debris, aerate it, spread seed, then slice seed in two directions, or you could hydroseed over it as well. When you rototill you will also bring seed to the surface, the sod clumps will decompose creating heat that will burn the root ends on the new grass, plus hand raking 50k f-that. As far as a pre em if you get a good strong stand of grass in early you would only need to use drive as a post emergent crabgrass control on spots and also gets a lot of weeds.

DavidNJ
03-22-2011, 11:49 PM
the sod clumps will decompose creating heat that will burn the root ends on the new grass,

I thought there might be a nitrogen depletion, but heat at a sufficient level to be an issue?

The plan...starting soon as I can get a dry day is Roundup, soil cultivator, and then slice seed in two directions with Lebanon Turf Winning Colors tall fescue.

The Imprelis or Tenacity would be to prevent competition with the seed. I'm considering getting some plastic 55gal drums and soaking the seed for 12 hours before planting.

RigglePLC
03-23-2011, 11:21 AM
Sounds good, if you don't get too many sod clumps. See my other thread about soaking seed. 12 hours is probably a minimum. I used 72 hours, changing the water at 12 hour intervals. And dried. Seed (rye) was a quarter inch high three days after sowing. At about 68 degrees soil temp (indoors).
Of course, pre-soaking requires that you are able to predict when you can start a few days ahead of time and you have to plan how you are going to dry 50 pounds of seed.

Smallaxe
03-23-2011, 12:24 PM
Sounds good, if you don't get too many sod clumps. See my other thread about soaking seed. 12 hours is probably a minimum. I used 72 hours, changing the water at 12 hour intervals. And dried. Seed (rye) was a quarter inch high three days after sowing. At about 68 degrees soil temp (indoors).
Of course, pre-soaking requires that you are able to predict when you can start a few days ahead of time and you have to plan how you are going to dry 50 pounds of seed.

Riggle, your research is already paying off...

Just need to encourage feedback from the field tests...:)

humble1
03-24-2011, 11:53 AM
I thought there might be a nitrogen depletion, but heat at a sufficient level to be an issue?

The plan...starting soon as I can get a dry day is Roundup, soil cultivator, and then slice seed in two directions with Lebanon Turf Winning Colors tall fescue.

The Imprelis or Tenacity would be to prevent competition with the seed. I'm considering getting some plastic 55gal drums and soaking the seed for 12 hours before planting.

speeding up seed germination is only a benefit if soil temps are already over 55 deg, if you are lower you dont want to start seed germination and then have it stop due to cold ground temps, seed will become non viable

humble1
03-24-2011, 11:56 AM
I thought there might be a nitrogen depletion, but heat at a sufficient level to be an issue?

The plan...starting soon as I can get a dry day is Roundup, soil cultivator, and then slice seed in two directions with Lebanon Turf Winning Colors tall fescue.

The Imprelis or Tenacity would be to prevent competition with the seed. I'm considering getting some plastic 55gal drums and soaking the seed for 12 hours before planting.

also think of how hot it gets in a compost pile, turnig sod clumps under causes a lot of heat fast. i wouldnt do it.