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michaelthomas1
02-27-2011, 09:43 AM
Any one having success using bulk grains like corn gluten pellets-alfalfa meal-soybean meal-distillers grains--on lawns! Anyone having success adding these (protein based grains to feed microbes which feed the grass for green up and thickness) Is anyone dissolving them and using them in tank mixtures with compost tea or just using them as liquid to spray on lawns or shrubs-bushes.

What is the best ride on spreader to use for spreading with these grains as they tend to flow more difficult coming out!

Lastly , I am usuing Bills ict tea but would like to add more protein base in it ,anyone having success with this duo.
BILL(ICT TEA) IS A GREAT COACH!! I beleive he is not just in it for the money to help but to help many to get the best lawn organically. :usflag:

Michael-Tenn. Dept. of Agriculture# 1628----applicator

ICT Bill
02-27-2011, 11:26 PM
Any one having success using bulk grains like corn gluten pellets-alfalfa meal-soybean meal-distillers grains--on lawns! Anyone having success adding these (protein based grains to feed microbes which feed the grass for green up and thickness) Is anyone dissolving them and using them in tank mixtures with compost tea or just using them as liquid to spray on lawns or shrubs-bushes.

What is the best ride on spreader to use for spreading with these grains as they tend to flow more difficult coming out!

Lastly , I am usuing Bills ict tea but would like to add more protein base in it ,anyone having success with this duo.
BILL(ICT TEA) IS A GREAT COACH!! I beleive he is not just in it for the money to help but to help many to get the best lawn organically. :usflag:

Michael-Tenn. Dept. of Agriculture# 1628----applicator

Proteins are great as a "fertilizer" try to make some effort to find locally made waste whether it is compost or grains, the eternal issue is storage and application, rodents love grains too, they will find it on your yard or in your storage area. compost works better from many angles

Look at dried distrillers grain, high in protein, high in Gluten peptides and it works well in a spreader

PrimoSR
05-09-2011, 04:54 PM
Look at dried distrillers grain, high in protein, high in Gluten peptides and it works well in a spreader

This sentence resulted in hours and hours of reading, now I just have to find it (and not at retail prices).

ICT Bill
05-10-2011, 10:41 AM
This sentence resulted in hours and hours of reading, now I just have to find it (and not at retail prices).

It is a byproduct of ethanol production and is relatively cheap in bulk (a typical cost is $200 to $250 per ton), it is used as a feed additive for cows and such so you can start at a feed store and move from there
I know Marcos is using it this year and is south of you maybe you can PM him where he found it, he says it is the best deal going out there right now.

Marcos
05-17-2011, 01:50 AM
It is a byproduct of ethanol production and is relatively cheap in bulk (a typical cost is $200 to $250 per ton), it is used as a feed additive for cows and such so you can start at a feed store and move from there
I know Marcos is using it this year and is south of you maybe you can PM him where he found it, he says it is the best deal going out there right now.

Thanks, Bill! :waving: Despite the insanity in corn futures we managed to lock in DG for the balance of 2011 at a very reasonable price.
Generally your annual volume of business will dictate your pricing, so long as you have flexibility in your sales contact.
This year we're also using SBM, CSM & AM each in varying degrees in order to diversify nutrient content.
And a lot of composting in early fall, of course!

We've read of documented successes using DG as a pre-emergent in container nurseries, but with a very limited list of weed species controlled.

We're chomping at the bit to see if an elevated rate of DG might show pre-emergent effects later this summer on certain lawns that aren't fully developed enough to naturally crowd/choke out crab, foxtail & other summer annual weeds.

White Gardens
05-19-2011, 09:09 AM
Let us know the results later this year Marcos. I'd like to know if it works or not as a pre-em. I know the verdict is still out on it's effectiveness.

Kiril
05-19-2011, 09:31 AM
Let us know the results later this year Marcos. I'd like to know if it works or not as a pre-em. I know the verdict is still out on it's effectiveness.

If you want to know something like this, you need to look for controlled, replicated experiments, not anecdotal guesses.

Here is a list of CGM related publications I put together in 2007, so links may not work. If they don't, just search on the web for the title of the doc.

Studies/Articles On Corn Gluten As A Pre-emergent


PATENT: Updated patent (http://www.hort.iastate.edu/gluten/pdf/290757.pdf)

ISU: Greenhouse Screening of Corn Gluten Meal as a Natural Control Product for Broadleaf and Grass Weeds (http://www.hort.iastate.edu/gluten/pdf/grnhsechr.pdf)

ISU: Isolation and Identification of Root-Inhibiting Compounds from Corn. Gluten Hydrolysate (http://www.hort.iastate.edu/gluten/pdf/isolation.pdf)

ISU: Making its way to the marketplace: A natural product for the control of annual weeds (http://www.hort.iastate.edu/gluten/pdf/cornglut2.pdf)

ISU: Bioactivity of a Pentapeptide Isolated from Corn Gluten Hydrolysate on Lolium perenne L. (http://www.hort.iastate.edu/gluten/pdf/bioactiv.pdf)

ISU: Herbicidal Activity of Hydrolyzed Corn Gluten Meal on Three Grass Species under Controlled Environments (http://www.hort.iastate.edu/gluten/pdf/herbicidal.pdf)

ISU: The Use Of A Natural Product For The Control Of Annual Weeds In Turf (http://www.hort.iastate.edu/gluten/pdf/cornglut.pdf)

ISU: A natural product for the control of annual weeds (http://www.hort.iastate.edu/gluten/pdf/cornglut2.pdf) (Note: more or less same as previous link)

ISU: The Use of Corn Gluten Meal As A Natural Preemergence Weed Control in Turf (http://www.hort.iastate.edu/gluten/pdf/cornglut3.pdf)

ISU: How To Use Corn Gluten Meal (http://www.hort.iastate.edu/gluten/pdf/how-to-use-corn-gluten-meal.pdf)

ISU: Cellular effects in perennial ryegrass (Lolium perenne L.) associated. with the root inhibiting compound alaninyl-alanine (http://www.hort.iastate.edu/gluten/pdf/Unruh_thesis.pdf)

UCD: Evaluation and Demonstration of Corn Gluten Meal as an Organic Herbicide (http://ucce.ucdavis.edu/freeform/slosson/documents/1999-20002063.pdf)

UWEX: Corn Gluten Meal: A Natural Pre-Emergence Herbicide (http://www.extension.umn.edu/yardandgarden/ygbriefs/h531cornglutenmeal.html)


Studies/Articles On Natural Products & Methods For Weed Control


UWEX: Corn Gluten Meal and Other Natural Products for Weed Control in Turfgrass (http://www.soils.wisc.edu/extension/FAPM/proceedings/4C.stier.pdf)

UFL: Preliminary Evaluation Of Nonsynthetic Herbicides For Weed Management In Organic Orange Production (http://www.hos.ufl.edu/cachweb/FSHS_2004.pdf)

JA-CSSPA: Weed Suppression by Deleterious Rhizobacteria is Affected by Formulation and Soil Properties (http://www.ars.usda.gov/sp2UserFiles/Place/36221500/cswq-0214-147110.pdf)

JA-CS: Cultural Management of Weeds in Turfgrass: A Review (http://crop.scijournals.org/cgi/reprint/43/6/1899.pdf)

PATENT: Xanthomonas campestris isolates and methods of use (http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5271932.html)

starry night
05-19-2011, 10:20 PM
Kiril, Marcos was talking about distillers grains. Are you saying that these studies also apply to DG? Just asking.

Kiril
05-20-2011, 09:38 AM
Kiril, Marcos was talking about distillers grains. Are you saying that these studies also apply to DG? Just asking.

Not unless they have the same compounds as CGM. The studies I posted are for CGM, not DG. That said, studies like the ones posted is what you should be looking for if you want information on DG with respect to pre-emergent potential.

Marcos
05-26-2011, 10:45 AM
Yes do doubt it's much too early for the jury to return regarding any DG pre-emergent performance with annual weeds.

However we've already made unexpected observations concerning DG.
With this midwest monsoon right now red thread is going absolutely nuts around here in virtually every bluegrass, mixed bg/tall fescue lawn.
This spring so far we've used DG in approx. 85% of our turf including the increasingly minority 100% bluegrass lawns. In fact, most of these same lawns either received DG or a topdressing last Sep or Oct. Red thread is present throughout, but definitely visibly subdued as compared to chemically-fertilized same-cut neighboring bluegrass.

We assume what's happened here is the DG &/or topdressing combo have successfully promoted enough beneficial fungi to combat red thread.
Who knows? Maybe this will hold up later during dollar spot & brown patch seasons! Maybe DG will shake out to be the organic disease control product that corn meal has been touted to be, but never really was.

starry night
05-26-2011, 11:42 AM
I'm not sure but I'm curious as to what parts of the corn grain remains after the distilling process. Chemically and physically, what is taken out and what remains?
Marcos, I presume you are using dried DG? Also, what kind of operation are you getting it from?

I'm seeing a lot of red thread here, too. But, like you, not so much on my organic lawns.

White Gardens
05-26-2011, 03:36 PM
Try this. It's just Wikipedia, so I'm sure there might be some flaws.

Ethanol Production (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fermentation)



..

Marcos
05-27-2011, 01:30 AM
I'm not sure but I'm curious as to what parts of the corn grain remains after the distilling process. Chemically and physically, what is taken out and what remains?
Marcos, I presume you are using dried DG? Also, what kind of operation are you getting it from?

I'm seeing a lot of red thread here, too. But, like you, not so much on my organic lawns.

Where do I get it?
A very well-established well-known Midwest-based Ag distributor.

In this article & in Ag circles, DG is always referred to as DDGS, or "dried distillers grains with solubles". This link is very much farm-related, but it's still very much worth the time to read because it looks at DG's fertilizer potential from an Ag perspective, looking out:

http://www.plantmanagementnetwork.org/pub/cm/review/2008/distillers/

Obviously ethanol production has grown exponentially since this Ag-related link was released about 3 years ago.
In the US with more & more ethanol plants coming on-line combined with higher beef prices (driven partially by higher foreign demand), market forces are such that both forms of DG most likely will remain plentiful, & thus relatively affordable.
This is great news for livestock farmers who (according to this link) use by far the majority of distillers grains produced as cattle feed.
And of course this is also a great deal for "specialty market" buyers, like us.

Clue: If you're considering early order load-your-shed savings deals this fall, and you're considering DG as a part of that package, don't listen to or read corn futures! :)

starry night
05-27-2011, 08:45 AM
Marcos, I wasn't trying to "steal" your source. I just meant the [B]original[B] source e.g. ethanol production.

White Gardens
05-27-2011, 08:49 AM
market forces are such that both forms of DG most likely will remain plentiful, & thus relatively affordable.
This is great news for livestock farmers who (according to this link) use by far the majority of distillers grains produced as cattle feed.
And of course this is also a great deal for "specialty market" buyers, like us.

Clue: If you're considering early order load-your-shed savings deals this fall, and you're considering DG as a part of that package, don't listen to or read corn futures! :)

As someone who was hauling Gluten for cattle feed for a while I have to disagree. Corn Futures do have an impact on DDGS.

It always seemed to fluctuate with the rise in feed prices coupled by the Europeans who are the biggest consumers of DDGS products for cattle feed. (they won't feed american bio-engineered products directly to their livestock but they'll buy the DDGS with no problems. :hammerhead:). Last year when Europe had their debt crisis and credit dried up for them, the price of DDGS went through the roof.

Farmers used to get DDGS for free, then they started to charge for it once the Ethanol plants seen a demand for it and could also make some money to keep them in the black. It's been a while since I've been to the ethanol plant, but I'm guessing the pricing keeps going up.

At some point I'm guessing the DDGS isn't going to be viable for LCO's when the price hits a certain point.

And I just took a gander at the pricing. It's more than double what it was this time last year. Dry DDGS was at $50 a ton last year, now it's almost tripled. Corn Gluten Meal has almost gone up 5 times also, and that is the high protein stuff that is used for lawn applications.

DDGS Pricing (http://aventinerei.com/docs/pkncoprod.htm)





..

Marcos
06-07-2011, 05:57 PM
And I just took a gander at the pricing. It's more than double what it was this time last year. Dry DDGS was at $50 a ton last year, now it's almost tripled. Corn Gluten Meal has almost gone up 5 times also, and that is the high protein stuff that is used for lawn applications.

DDGS Pricing (http://aventinerei.com/docs/pkncoprod.htm)



About 11 months ago DDGS was hovering around $160 / ton.
The closest it's been to $50 / ton in recent years was May / June '05 when it bottomed out a few times at around $75 / ton.

If last year you purchased DDGS at $50 / ton ($1.25 / 50# sack), you probably got a deal on product deemed spoiled, or otherwise unsuitable as a livestock feed.