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View Full Version : New 2009 Toro 52" Grandstand for $6000?


Dabtro96
03-02-2011, 06:53 PM
Any thoughts on this price? It's a new machine from a local dealer. All factory 'mandated' updates have been done. Not sure what all of them are but that's what the salesman told me.
Any input is appreciated.
Thanks.

Keepin' It Green
03-02-2011, 07:32 PM
I just bought a 2009 Grandstand for the same price. I was told that dealers have loans for their mowers for two years. When the two years are up, and they still have the mower, they want to sell it as soon as possible so they do not have to keep paying on them. I was also told that the engine on the 2009 is better than the ones on the 2010 and 2011. It is a stronger built and has a stronger built air intake. My dealer did all the updates. They only difference between the 2009 and 2010-2011 is the grease fittings on the pulleys. They are on the side of spindles and not the top of them like the 2010-2011. I have been using mine for a couple of weeks now and I love it. I would go for it. Also, you can mow for a non-profit agency and receive 28% off Toro Mowers. You just have to develop a contract to prove they are non profit. Ask your dealer about it.

Dabtro96
03-02-2011, 08:06 PM
Thanks for the input. It seems like a pretty good deal to me. Non-profit pricing? Never heard of that. I have several accounts under contract that are non-profit businesses. I suspect that that pricing is for the actual N.P. business purchasing equipment but I will ask the salesman tomorrow anyway. thanks again.

Southern Pride
03-02-2011, 08:15 PM
What are some examples of non profit commercial places to cut?

Tall Rider
03-02-2011, 08:24 PM
Its actually Toro Fleet pricing. Instead of having to buy two or three machines depending on what models you choose based on a points system. Non-profits AND the contractors who cut them can qualify with one machine for the 28% discount off MSRP. This is something Toro does for its dealers as a reimbursement program. Toro pays the dealer back for the machine then sold at under dealer cost. Churches and all sorts of places qualify. Hope this helps. Family member sold a Toro G3 29HP 60" last fall to a school district and they qualified for the 28% discount.

Dabtro96
03-02-2011, 09:43 PM
Churches are my main not for profit customers... I will check into the program and report back. Now I need to find out what MSRP is for the machine (2009 52" grandstand 24hp).

Tall Rider
03-02-2011, 10:27 PM
Im not positive what if any changes there are to the fleet pricing on hold over equipment. The dealers "flooring" on the unit is most likely up and thats why the unit has such a nice price. It would be interesting to find out why this unit has not sold? When you go to your dealer ask if Western is your area Toro distributor and if they will also offer incentives on the unit. I know they do quite often on demos and they may offer you an even better deal :usflag:

KCLawnTamers
03-02-2011, 10:45 PM
Do not buy a grandstand. Junk. They have major control issues. The cables break all the time. If you want that type of mower, buy the exmark. Same style machine but they fixed al the issues on there machine.

Dabtro96
03-03-2011, 11:16 PM
Well I made a few calls today and found a local dealer that'll sell a 2011 Exmark Vantage 52" for $6400. So this machine is $400 more than the 2009 Toro but it has the issues resolved (or so I'm told). I think I'm now leaning toward the Exmark. Price seems good to me.

Keepin' It Green
03-03-2011, 11:28 PM
I heard Toro and Exmark come off the same assembly line. Whether Toro owns Exmark or Exmark owns Toro all depends on which dealership your at and which product they carry. Looks like the biggest difference between the two is the deck. Good luck with whichever you go with!

Dabtro96
03-03-2011, 11:32 PM
Yep. You are right. The deck is only difference. Seems like a nice machine. It will mow circles around the 12 year old 44" Toro W/B it will be replacing! I'm pretty excited.

DaytonBioLawns
03-03-2011, 11:41 PM
I heard Toro and Exmark come off the same assembly line. Whether Toro owns Exmark or Exmark owns Toro all depends on which dealership your at and which product they carry. Looks like the biggest difference between the two is the deck. Good luck with whichever you go with!

Exmark was independently owned and operated and sold in the 90's (96? I think...idk...) to toro.

The arrangement was mostly to keep up with production and to give toro another piece of the market to sell to. Most of the Toro and Exmark stuff is the same when you look at the different components. Same wheel pumps, engines, bearings, seals, pretty much the same. Painted different colors with different options and different decks (on some years).

Exmark is known for their commercial cut quality and stripe. It was marketed more toward us commercial contractors and the toro was marketed as the "golf course quality" just like every other toro ever produced.

Ask yourself this....
Do I want dark red or bright red?

Got the answer? There ya go. You made your choice between exmark and toro on most models.

I personally am a big Exmark fan. Metro 36" w/kohler was my first commercial and she is still kicking. I would still wait on getting a stander from exmark, toro, or even scag. I would stick with wright stander for the stander mowers for now. Deere also has a reputable and tested stander..... I chose Wright for my new fleet of mowers.

DaytonBioLawns
03-03-2011, 11:46 PM
Any thoughts on this price? It's a new machine from a local dealer. All factory 'mandated' updates have been done. Not sure what all of them are but that's what the salesman told me.
Any input is appreciated.
Thanks.

Oh and if it had problems to fix I would worry about it.....

Spend the $400 and get the Exmark if that is the only thing holding you back. You can't really compare "last year's" models to this year or next years model mower. They simply aren't the same.

There was a set of EPA standards that every manufacturer had to meet on the new mowers. My dealer was not concerned with it and neither has any other major LCO in my area making big mower purchases (that I've talked to). IDK about the diesel mowers and tractors though....if it is anything like the diesel light duty trucks I'd be wary.

All handhelds also suffered this change. It was not too bad....all handhelds and mowers need maintenance and if you have a good program previous to the EPA switch, there will be no large change for you. I'd expect worse fuel economy but it would be a tinnnnyyyy change.

Lawnut101
03-04-2011, 12:15 AM
I am a big fan of the Vantage. But putting $400 back in your pocket is pretty nice. But when it comes time to sell the mower in 5 years, the 09 will be 2 years older, so you will probably loose that $400 anyways. Tough decision, but both are nice machines.

orlawncaresvc
03-04-2011, 12:32 AM
Man, you guys are getting those nice mowers at some very low prices in your area. A vantage and grandstand for 6 gs. I feel like we overpaid for our exmark phazer 3 years ago. It ran us $5,900.

Southern Pride
03-04-2011, 12:39 AM
Toro Grandstand is one of those mowers I too have hear alot of very mixed things on. So many differences between this year did that and last year did this. I too, am a huge eXmark guy. Run my 25 yards with my single 36" metro belt w/ kawasaki. Love that mower but here soon I want to get a 48"+ stander or ztr lazer. If it were me I would spend the extra 4 on the eXmark.

brucec
03-04-2011, 12:15 PM
I called toro and talked to 3 different people and the knew nothing about the non-profit discount program.

Lawnut101
03-04-2011, 03:08 PM
I am pretty sure dealers are the one that know about it. My Exmark dealer brought to attention a similar program.

Keepin' It Green
03-04-2011, 03:15 PM
I have attached a .pdf that shows the guidelines of the contract in order to get 28% off. My dealer said that it is non monitored and usually have no problems receiving it if you are buying one mower. If you try to buy two mowers on one non-profit there is a good chance that you may be denied. So, it's pretty much one more for one non profit. Or if the non profit property is very large they are willing to provide the discount for more equipment. Hope this helps. I know Scag offers this same program but it is only 20% off instead of 28%.

brucec
03-04-2011, 04:06 PM
Great info keepin' it green. I called my dealer and he confirmed what your pdf says. It will only work on the 2011 model machines though not the discounted 2009's

DaytonBioLawns
03-04-2011, 10:54 PM
I have attached a .pdf that shows the guidelines of the contract in order to get 28% off. My dealer said that it is non monitored and usually have no problems receiving it if you are buying one mower. If you try to buy two mowers on one non-profit there is a good chance that you may be denied. So, it's pretty much one more for one non profit. Or if the non profit property is very large they are willing to provide the discount for more equipment. Hope this helps. I know Scag offers this same program but it is only 20% off instead of 28%.

Just be careful with that. If you give your tax ID for a for-profit legal entity and represent it as a non-profit entity, that makes you guilty of fraud.

you could be found guilty of....
-fraud
-embezzlement
-tax fraud
and theft/grand theft

As a retailer the various U.S. Government agencies/departments have audit requirements. Most (like the IRS), require that you randomly audit and check your programs on receipt.....

So they could take lets say.... 50,000 non-profit claims on the mowers and sell them @ your 28% off. Toro would be getting a tax break from the government for offering and reporting on the non-profit program. They are required to audit that program if they get that tax program and receive money back from it. So they audit X% of it.... lets say 25%..... Well your number comes up. They run the Federal I.D. # that you filed saying whether or not you can draw a profit from your organization. If they find you are a for-profit entity, you are already guilty of fraud.....

Result: The U.S. Government or other parties that you defrauded could take you to court in both criminal and civil cases. Double whammy. If you created a non-profit to buy mowers and equipment and used them in a for-profit business you are in more trouble....a lot more. If you did something that traces back to you personally, your LLC or other legal entity is useless and the parties could take... get this...

EVERYTHING.

I'm not trying to hate on anyone I just don't want any of you to unknowingly get in trouble. Cause that kind of trouble is serious trouble. You could go to jail, get probation or parole, and pay restitution. Your wages could be garnished and your bank accounts handed over and emptied. If you used a personal line of credit like a credit card, or a loan that you personally guaranteed, then you are open game. Your legal entity no longer separates you from the risks of business and business crime. They could take everything including your house, car, spouses assets, and dependent children's funds and assets as well. Your child could lose his college savings because of this.

Don't do it. It isn't worth the extra 8-10% that you save. There are retail programs open to everyone like buyer's groups, fleet buying, buying on credit/financing, mail-in-rebates, coupons, and much more. Many of them can be used in conjunction with each other.

Cars, trucks, and large equipment usually can be negotiated 18% at the dealer plus manufacturer rebates. They are out there too! Wright Stander has a published list of seasonal buying prices going all the way to 17%.....needless to say you can also negotiate your rates. If you are a savvy buyer you can get equipment around 25-30% off.... IN A LEGAL WAY!!!!

Don't even do it if the dealer says its okay. Cause then you are guilty and he is your inside partner. You would have then also been charged with conspiracy to commit fraud as well.

I'm not trying to bust balls here. I'm trying to save your neck!!! :laugh:

eco.lawns
03-04-2011, 11:11 PM
Just be careful with that. If you give your tax ID for a for-profit legal entity and represent it as a non-profit entity, that makes you guilty of fraud.

you could be found guilty of....
-fraud
-embezzlement
-tax fraud
and theft/grand theft

As a retailer the various U.S. Government agencies/departments have audit requirements. Most (like the IRS), require that you randomly audit and check your programs on receipt.....

So they could take lets say.... 50,000 non-profit claims on the mowers and sell them @ your 28% off. Toro would be getting a tax break from the government for offering and reporting on the non-profit program. They are required to audit that program if they get that tax program and receive money back from it. So they audit X% of it.... lets say 25%..... Well your number comes up. They run the Federal I.D. # that you filed saying whether or not you can draw a profit from your organization. If they find you are a for-profit entity, you are already guilty of fraud.....

Result: The U.S. Government or other parties that you defrauded could take you to court in both criminal and civil cases. Double whammy. If you created a non-profit to buy mowers and equipment and used them in a for-profit business you are in more trouble....a lot more. If you did something that traces back to you personally, your LLC or other legal entity is useless and the parties could take... get this...

EVERYTHING.

I'm not trying to hate on anyone I just don't want any of you to unknowingly get in trouble. Cause that kind of trouble is serious trouble. You could go to jail, get probation or parole, and pay restitution. Your wages could be garnished and your bank accounts handed over and emptied. If you used a personal line of credit like a credit card, or a loan that you personally guaranteed, then you are open game. Your legal entity no longer separates you from the risks of business and business crime. They could take everything including your house, car, spouses assets, and dependent children's funds and assets as well. Your child could lose his college savings because of this.

Don't do it. It isn't worth the extra 8-10% that you save. There are retail programs open to everyone like buyer's groups, fleet buying, buying on credit/financing, mail-in-rebates, coupons, and much more. Many of them can be used in conjunction with each other.

Cars, trucks, and large equipment usually can be negotiated 18% at the dealer plus manufacturer rebates. They are out there too! Wright Stander has a published list of seasonal buying prices going all the way to 17%.....needless to say you can also negotiate your rates. If you are a savvy buyer you can get equipment around 25-30% off.... IN A LEGAL WAY!!!!

Don't even do it if the dealer says its okay. Cause then you are guilty and he is your inside partner. You would have then also been charged with conspiracy to commit fraud as well.

I'm not trying to bust balls here. I'm trying to save your neck!!! :laugh:

No one said anything about doing anything illegal. You must mow for a NON-PROFIT to get the discount and the program is actually called bid assist. It was never even suggested to use anything other than that. Their is absolutely no reason anyone shouldn't take advantage of this discount if they qualify. I just saved over $2,400 on a brand new GS 52/24

Keepin' It Green
03-05-2011, 12:55 AM
Also, you do not even have to be a business owner or have a federal tax id number. You only have to provide the tax id number for the non profit that you are mowing for.

DaytonBioLawns
03-05-2011, 02:32 AM
Also, you do not even have to be a business owner or have a federal tax id number. You only have to provide the tax id number for the non profit that you are mowing for.

Yes it is all true. A non-profit can be used by basically anyone. Just get the tax ID. There is a paper for release of use. We deal with them on all corporate purchases. Same piece of paper but the I.D. comes back non-profit instead of profit.

BUT if they find out that a non-profit provided it to you for any other reason than mowing for the non-profit you WILL get in trouble....

That is what I'm trying to say. If you mow your church or whatever NPO in area that is okay to use the form. If you own a landscape business and do not service an NPO then don't do it. It isn't worth the trouble it will cause.

even if it doesn't sound that serious this can be a big fat red mark on your record.

again if you service a non-profit then you are okay. no problem.... this program would be for you.

Dabtro96
03-05-2011, 09:43 AM
The dealer I was talking to didn't participate in the NP pricing program but the Toro rep was there and said he could get it through to Toro corporate. He also said that the piece of equipment being purchased had to match the size of the NP account. So a 4000sq ft lot wouldn't justify a 60' mower. He also mentioned that the mower had to be used 'exclusively' for that account but quickly followed by saying that it's nearly impossible to enforce.
Regarding the equipment:
He told me Toro spindles are far superior to Exmark and the Turbo Force deck is better than the deck on the Exmark. (Grandstand vs. Vantage) A little Toro rep talk there and I'm guessing some truth too. I don't know.

eco.lawns
03-05-2011, 11:57 AM
Yes it is all true. A non-profit can be used by basically anyone. Just get the tax ID. There is a paper for release of use. We deal with them on all corporate purchases. Same piece of paper but the I.D. comes back non-profit instead of profit.

BUT if they find out that a non-profit provided it to you for any other reason than mowing for the non-profit you WILL get in trouble....

That is what I'm trying to say. If you mow your church or whatever NPO in area that is okay to use the form. If you own a landscape business and do not service an NPO then don't do it. It isn't worth the trouble it will cause.

even if it doesn't sound that serious this can be a big fat red mark on your record.

again if you service a non-profit then you are okay. no problem.... this program would be for you.


This is solid advise

As far as toro vs. exmark goes Im sure you cant go wrong with either machine. Demo both and choose the one that fits you and your wallet best

Dabtro96
03-05-2011, 09:13 PM
Well I demoed both the Toro and the Exmark. Both of them had tracking problems. Not a major issue but neither went straight. So, since it was sitting there, I demoed a Scag Vride, WOW! That's a nice machine. I didn't cut grass with any of these machines, but the Scag felt much nicer from a controllability standpoint. More comfortable too. More money though.
This mower shopping is tough!
Most of my equipment is Exmark and Toro (several WB's and smaller 21" mowers). I haven't run any Scag equipment so I don't know much about them. I imagine they make good equipment.