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unkownfl
03-05-2011, 08:57 AM
Figured I'd make on thread instead of two. What thickness of edger blades are you guys using cutting 99% St Augustine? And what SOD are you guys using in CFL muck or sand I think the sand is better but everywhere I go that has sand is still dormant or dry.

bugsNbows
03-07-2011, 10:09 AM
I prefer the sand-based sod as it's more closely related (composition, texture, etc.) to our existing soils. Muck is totally different. This may add to any layering difficulties already present. However, it does tend to fall apart easier during cutting, transporting and laying.

Landscape Poet
03-07-2011, 09:25 PM
I prefer the sand-based sod as it's more closely related (composition, texture, etc.) to our existing soils. Muck is totally different. This may add to any layering difficulties already present. However, it does tend to fall apart easier during cutting, transporting and laying.

I prefer sand for the same reason. The falling apart reason is what is making me going into more muck based.

IMO it seems that the sand adapts quicker than the muck, which is important during the heat and humidity that we get during the summer, which is also fungus season.

The muck tends to hold the moisture that is applied better - so that has its advantages.


My biggest thing is the handling. Labor cost money, so it is making more and more sense to use the muck because the sand tends to almost be non existent at the bottom, and sometimes the middle of the pallet.

If using sand, I have figured I need to alot a larger % for waste, because it always seems that there is that one pallet that has a large section that is just not able to be handled without lots of extra attention.


I asked this same question a while back, and ric brought up several good points, including the muck allows for the chemical companies product to stay in place a little longer, again a plus when putting it down in the heat of the season when most homeowners decide they need sod.

Landscape Poet
03-07-2011, 09:29 PM
Forgot to ad,

On edger blades - I get mine at Florida Irrigation Supply - box of 50 for $37. I use whatever I can find that is cheap as I have not found any difference in the length of time they last be it named brand or generic, painted or unpainted.

rob7233
03-07-2011, 10:30 PM
Muck based is more organic based material than sand. Having more OM with muck, chemicals & fertilizers have a greater capacity to be held in the root zone better and longer than with the sand.

Sand leaches easier and drys out faster. What does newly laid sod need most? > To stay moist until rooted down. IMHO muck based sod has this, as a greater advantage. Potentially less watering needed= less $. My goal is to get the new sod established as easily and quickly as possible with the least amount of potential stress to the plant, me or the client!

As far as soil composition, layering and compatibility, we are talking about one inch of sod soil here. Very unlike the research findings of adding amendments to a tree or shrub planting hole(a waste of time & $$).

Furthermore, as Mike said, muck based handles better and lays more even and smoother for a nicer finished appearance.

Lastly, Muck based sod can make you more money. Trucks and the DOT have transportation weight limits. The blended man-made muck soils are lighter and more consistant than sand and don't compress and break down as much. So, with that you can get a 500 sq/ft pallet instead of a 400 on that truck delivery with less waste and less pallets.

However, not mentioned before, I sometimes wonder about acclimations issues on some of the sod that comes from way down in south FL in certain times of the year (like now). Any opinions on that?

Florida Gardener
03-07-2011, 10:31 PM
Mike I think the summer is a great time to re-sod due to quick establishment. Not the best time, but if watered and monitored properly it is an easy establishment.
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rob7233
03-07-2011, 10:43 PM
Mike I think the summer is a great time to re-sod due to quick establishment. Not the best time, but if watered and monitored properly it is an easy establishment.
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Well, I gotta disagree with ya. More heat stress, greater disease and pest pressure. Pests are drawn to stressed lawns and plants. Can you think of a greater stressor event than getting cut up by your roots? Also, new sod takes a lot of water to get established. With the summer heat, the rate of evaporation is at it's highest, less water to the sod and more water and $$ needed. In addition, with the sky high humidity you have a greater potential loss issues to fungus. This is why they say to apply fungicides and insecticides to new sod in the summer which also drives up the cost and water demands of the sod.

Also labor is much less efficient due to the increased need to take more frequent water/ cool off breaks.

Florida Gardener
03-07-2011, 11:10 PM
I have done and seen installs done in the brink off summer and the sod was established in 2 weeks. Not sure about Orlando, but we get tons of rain in the summer. If irrigation is monitored(turn off after a downpour) things should be fine. I have yet to see new sod that was monitored properly have insect damage or fungus problems. I didn't say it was the BEST time, just that it is a good time.
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Patriot Services
03-08-2011, 09:24 AM
I have to admit the only time I don't install sod is Dec and Jan. I laid 15k last month and 10k already this month. I include 3 months of aftercare or I won't warranty it. I control the water. Too many HO feel the need to drown new sod which brings on all the problems mentioned. Muck based is all I use. Every yard I have done had more than enough sand already.
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justanotherlawnguy
03-13-2011, 01:45 AM
15k in sod installs in February! Sounds too good to be true!

How many mexicans do you have working for you?
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rob7233
03-13-2011, 08:06 AM
Here's an listing from Orlando's Craigslist referring to: "Don't be fooled by muck based sod". http://orlando.craigslist.org/grd/2261250135.html

I've asked experts and others in the business and I just don't see how one (sand based) is clearly inferior or better than the other (muck).

Like myself, others have opinions but is any of it really research based? I'd love someone to provide some solid facts/evidence. Otherwise, I want to call out someone that wants to advertise that one is worse than the other.

Yeah, "don't be fooled" or rather I won't be, since I'll be calling the people of www.FloridaTurfPro.net to see if they can convince me.

Patriot Services
03-13-2011, 08:31 AM
15k in sod installs in February! Sounds too good to be true!

How many mexicans do you have working for you?
Posted via Mobile Device

No mexicans funny man. That's not even a third of an acre. It was 3 new/old houses in a row that had dirt and weeds as the lawns were never installed when the houses were built. Irrigation was already in. A private investor bought all 3 for cheap ,finished them and has sold 2 at current market price. The sod is doing fine. The new owners are thinking about adding some landscape.
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Landscape Poet
03-13-2011, 10:39 AM
Here's an listing from Orlando's Craigslist referring to: "Don't be fooled by muck based sod". http://orlando.craigslist.org/grd/2261250135.html

I've asked experts and others in the business and I just don't see how one (sand based) is clearly inferior or better than the other (muck).

Like myself, others have opinions but is any of it really research based? I'd love someone to provide some solid facts/evidence. Otherwise, I want to call out someone that wants to advertise that one is worse than the other.

Yeah, "don't be fooled" or rather I won't be, since I'll be calling the people of www.FloridaTurfPro.net to see if they can convince me.

Nice find Rob - interesting that they are offering a 30 day warranty on the sod after install, even against insect damage - HOPE THEY ARE CHARGING A PREMIUM for that.

Rob, you know the guy that started up out of my neighborhood last year, well he offered a warranty on sod when he started out, he replaced one lawn three times last year because of it until he learned his lesson.

zzach001
03-19-2011, 12:48 AM
Does anyone know how I can purchase sod directly from the field? I know where to get it i just need a truck and driver to pick it up for me. I need a few loads. any suggestions??

tjlco
03-19-2011, 01:28 AM
I am curious as well, what thickness edger blade is everyone using?