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View Full Version : Scag not liked on this forum?


Jimbo
09-16-2002, 10:08 PM
It seems that Scag is not liked to much on this forum. I see lots of post about Exmark and Hustler.

Everyone seems to be talking trash about other MFG's when the mowers are using the same parts (engines, clutches, Pumps, belts, tires, etc). It comes down to Factory support I think.


A funny thing happened today.
I received my copy of Turf Mag and I saw an add for Hustler Super Z (even though its the first time I saw it it looked familiar). Then I took the photo into the garage and held it up beside my Scag Tiger....HHHMMMMM I wonder who copied who?

Jim

FrankenScagMachines
09-16-2002, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by Jimbo
Then I took the photo into the garage and held it up beside my Scag Tiger....HHHMMMMM I wonder who copied who?

Jim

You're kidding right? Not at all the same nor do they even look like it to me anyway. I for one don't have a problem with Scag though, neither Hustler for that matter :cool:

odin
09-16-2002, 10:25 PM
jimbo


We love scag walkbehinds they have been great machines for us.

But the turf tiger we got in 2000 was a dog .Wheel motors and pumps, deck drive shaft and gearbox all went out.

My understanding is while they were made by the same company as pumps on exmarks etc. Scag used inferior pumps then the ones on other brands.

I think scag has got on the ball lately and have improved the tigers a lot.

Buddy of mine got a tiger cub and i seen some of his lawns and the cut was on par with our exmarks and toro ztr's not quite as good as our dixie but the cut was impressive.
He's put 300 400 hours and no pump and wheel motor problem's yet.
So maybe scag is back on the ball i hope they are .

Those problems i mentioned with the full sized tiger have soured a lot of guys on scag ztr's.

021462
09-16-2002, 10:27 PM
Jimbo

It's like Chevrolet vs Ford in my opinion. It's all in what you like and where you live. Where I'm from it's all TORO and a few Hustlers. But the way I look at it if you are making money with your Scag then keep at it Bro!:cool:

CT18fireman
09-16-2002, 10:33 PM
All I run here. Seems I fix friends Exmarks all the time. Never do anything but maintenance on my Scags.

parkmaster
09-16-2002, 10:33 PM
jimbo

know what you mean. i use scags my self. bought a new 48 zt wb
in place of a gravely 36 2 years ago. last season i bought a used scag 61 ztr i like them they are good machines. hey they stripe
nicely.



________________________________
you plant it, I'll maintain it

yardman1
09-16-2002, 10:41 PM
I LOVE MY SCAGS!!!!!!! That is all that I run, have demoed exmark and toro and did not like them, they do not cut bahia grass worth a dang. But that is my 2 cents. I plan on buying another scag the begining of next year, looking at the sabre tooth diesel. I demoed one about 3 weeks ago and that thing is Bad!!:D

mowerconsultant
09-16-2002, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by Jimbo
I received my copy of Turf Mag and I saw an add for Hustler Super Z (even though its the first time I saw it it looked familiar). Then I took the photo into the garage and held it up beside my Scag Tiger....HHHMMMMM I wonder who copied who?

Hustler has been building hydraulic zero turn mowers since 1966, Scag built there first zero turn riders in the mid 90's......(the SSZ if I am not mistaken).
Hustler invented the zero turn front mount mower in 1964 (belt drive)
I have nothing bad to say about Scag, I sold them at 1 point in my career, and I sold a ton of them........(Spain Equipment company, Charlotte N.C.) 90% of the Scags sold west of Raliegh North Carolina came out of the store I sold in. This was back in the 90's when hydro wb's and 3 wheel riders were the best thing....lol ......how times have changed.....

Later
Pj

robert payer
09-16-2002, 11:02 PM
We use Scag contently. Local Scag dealer treats us well. Down time can often be avoided by just listening to a mower. They do talk you know. Any mower often gives warning sounds to listen for that tell you something is due to go wrong in a few days. Down time should not be common. Now the Walker brand rider and warning signs? "Forgget-abbout-itt" They do have a place though, like leaves or where grass must be caught. Warning signs? They tell you when the catchers full! Nice productive machine that come at a cost.

Shady Brook
09-16-2002, 11:19 PM
I like my scag walkbehinds, though i do not think they cut quite as well as my exmark walkbehind. My Turf Tiger is another story. Like Odin said, plus more problems. It cuts pretty nice, stripes nice, but clumps pretty bad and does not through the grass all that far away from the machine. I do not have advantage decks, so maybe their performance would excell mine. I have tried the Hustler Z, Lazer, and Chopper, and I think all three cut cleaner, and through the grass further then my standard deck Tiger.

My Tiger currently is just over two years old, and continues to leak gas into the oil, and just about everything but a new motor has been tried to correct it. It also has some quirky starting problems that grow worse. Time to by a new mower, and I hate to leave my dealer.... Decisions!

Jay

Jimbo
09-17-2002, 12:09 AM
Shadybrook- Case in point. Thats a motor MFG problem don't you think?

PJ- Shame on you for selling Scag ;). Remember, I didnt say who copied who. However, even if Hustler made the first mowers that doesnt mean they were not surpassed at some point and resorted to copying a Scag design (Frame design, Gas tanks over tires, etc)? Maybe Hustler made this design first...dont know, but someone copied someone thats all I know. If you can prove that Scag copied a Hustler design more power to you.



Jim

Jimbo
09-17-2002, 12:18 AM
I was just trying to get everyone to think a little about all the "this ones better than that one" stuff I keep reading about. I hope I got my point across (and in a good way)?


Jim

P.S. I really am open to all mowers, and I think the MFG's who support this site like Hustler are a notch above (in customer service) the ones that dont.

visions landscape
09-17-2002, 12:19 AM
Ive looked at the scags and they seem like great machines that will prefrom and make money. However the dealer in our area just cant give the service a LCO needs, and that is our only draw back here. I know that isnt Scags fault or is it?

Scag48
09-17-2002, 01:24 AM
I thought about Scag before buying my Exmark. Then I realized that there have been some dealers that have quit carrying Scag because they don't seem to perform with the standards of Toro, Exmark, etc. I thought that sounded kind of weird coming from a dealer, but that's what a couple of them told me. Another reason for not buying a Scag was pistol grips. I'm not real fond of them and I liked Exmark ECS better. I'd say that Scag is still up there with everyone else, getting a piece of the pie.

Shady Brook
09-17-2002, 03:23 AM
Shadybrook "My Turf Tiger is another story. Like Odin said, plus more problems. It cuts pretty nice, stripes nice, but clumps pretty bad and does not throw the grass all that far away from the machine. I do not have advantage decks, so maybe their performance would excell mine. I have tried the Hustler Z, Lazer, and Chopper, and I think all three cut cleaner, and through the grass further then my standard deck Tiger."

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jimbo
[B]Shadybrook- Case in point. Thats a motor MFG problem don't you think?


Cut quality seems to be linked with the Scag mower itself, and not some aspect of it that is common to all mowers. I think the deck design on the standard deck is an inferior design.

I think my driveshaft driven machine is an inferior design, I think it robs the blades of power, and my Scag dealer agrees with me. I think the driveshaft going bad and cracking the frame is a scag problem.

I am not sure about the seals that went in the hydropumps, or the two that failed on me, whether they are in anyway different from other mowers. I know conventional oil was standard, while other manufacturers have, and do use synthetic in the hydros.

You may guess I have a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. My machine has had gas in the oil since late spring. I babied this unit, and it is in the shop more then on the turf. It has had headgaskets, carb rebuild, new carb, new starter, in addition to the hydro problems, and gas in the oil. I know there are more things I could mention but I will stop now.

I would say I know plenty of guys who love their Scags, and I think they may be making strides in the right direction, but whether they are as good a mower in all aspects as some of the other brands remains to be seen, at least to me.

Jay

Phishook
09-17-2002, 03:44 AM
Originally posted by Jimbo
I was just trying to get everyone to think a little about all the "this ones better than that one" stuff I keep reading about. I hope I got my point across (and in a good way)?


Jim

P.S. I really am open to all mowers, and I think the MFG's who support this site like Hustler are a notch above (in customer service) the ones that dont.

I got ya Jim. It dosn't take long for another company to see what is working and what isn't, and go from there.

If only I had the $$$ and time to build the 'BEST' mower.

Tony Harrell
09-17-2002, 06:34 AM
BUDD Group uses SCAG. I see hem all over the place. Could be a volume purchase thing of course. There's some small communities outside of Bermuda Run CC they service and they really stripe them great. By the way, is BUDD a large company? They seem to do all the largest properties around here. They also have several other divisions like janitorial, construction and I saw some of their seed (Rebel II) in LOWES the other day.

Jimbo
09-17-2002, 08:25 AM
The brand loyalty in this business is very high (which you can tell from LS). As I said before I think most of these mowers are very similar in design and use the same components, so here what I think about gaining market share.

It seems to me that in order to gain the market share you need to price yourself in on the Walk-behinds. Most people who start out purchase a walk-behind (the best they can afford) and as long as it performs they are most likely going to end up buying the same brand ZTR (I know I did).
Looks like if you offer a good quality WB at a reasonable price you are setting yourself up for good sales in the ZTR line.

Just my 2 cents, but I think its an accurate analysis.

Jim

What do you think?

mdb landscaping
09-17-2002, 08:54 AM
i have a scag walkbehind and have had no trouble, but i got to have some seat time on one of their new riders, and couldnt stand it. I ended up with an exmark for quality of cut, and the good name thats out there about them. Scag is a good company, but i dont think i couldve gotten used to their rider all day. you have to use so much energy to turn them. The hydros seem really tight and make you work at it to turn the thing.

awm
09-17-2002, 09:27 AM
to the fireman who fixes his friends exmark.
i think mabe the real difference is the fella responcible for the maintenance on the exmark.
i have become thoroughly convinced that
most complaints about bad equipment ,comes the first month of ownership .
after that the fella begins to understand the machine,and walla it suddenly becomes the best there is. :) jmho

TLS
09-17-2002, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by Jimbo
Most people who start out purchase a walk-behind (the best they can afford) and as long as it performs they are most likely going to end up buying the same brand ZTR (I know I did).


Well, I've been using a SCAG WB since the late 80's, and I really like their build quality on their equipment.

However....

When It came time to step up to a ZTR, SCAG really didn't have anything that impressed me (This was 1996, and then again in 2000). Their Tigers are much better than their first generation ZTR's, but still come in 3rd place in my mind. YES, they are still VERY well built, and maybe thats part of my reason, but just a 10 minute test drive will tell you why they rank the way they do here on LS.

Some things I DONT like about SCAG...

Greasable spindles (I hate to grease daily)

Through bolted spindles (seem to give an out-of-balance feeling due to clearances between bolt and spindle hole)

Much higher weight.

CUT.

Scrape grass buildup from any mowers underside of deck. Count the # of obstructions (bolt heads, plate stacking, weld gobs) Then go SCRAPE on an EXMARK. Only like 4 bolt heads to hit! No silly plates around spindles (they're on top!) and such.

Another biggie is the DRIVESHAFT. I've had them before on my JD FrontRunners. They are a GIANT maintenance issue. They WILL wear out, and DO require daily greasing, and they DO require a gearbox. Give me a mule drive ANYDAY!


Dont get me wrong, I'm not bashing SCAG. Just answering as to why they are different. And why they may somewhat deserve the reputation that they are recieving on here.

mklawnman
09-17-2002, 01:47 PM
We bought a Turf Tiger last year 2001, the reason we went with them is the dealer is close and most of the big name LCOs in the area use Scags. It seems they buy them because of the durablity and the quality they give. I would say Scag walkbehinds stripe awhole lot better than the Turf Tiger, since this year we bought a 52inch WB. Though my turf tiger stripes very well in certain types of grasses, other times it can be ok. I dont have any gripes about the wheel motors or the driveshaft. Love the Kaw motor on it and the speed, want a little bit faster of a machine but its making me money and I am able to produce a quality of cut.
If you take care of the machines they will last along time and be productive in the long run.
Matt(lawnman)

Oliver1850
09-17-2002, 01:58 PM
Way to go Jimbo! I am glad someone finally posted this question on this site. I too have wanted to ask this question, however, I was worried about creating such a debate.

I do not have any experienece with previous Scag's from the 90's, so I am new to their product. I have a 2002 Cub.

I can say that I have been really impressed so far and have had no problems.

I also have a 2001 Laser and it too has been impressive.

Some of the reasons for the switch to Scag were part for part build quality, two different dealer reccomendations; but most of all, personal preference during the demonstration. The Scag handled really well and seemed more solid than the others.

My only complaint would be in regards to the striping ability. Yeah, the Scag striped well, but not as consistent as my Laser. Making some simple changes in pitch and blades greatly improved the stripes of my Scag.

As the others have said, my two cents though.

mklawnman
09-17-2002, 02:52 PM
Hey Oliver
What kind of pitch changes did you make to your deck? i know you have a Tiger Cub, but im guessing they have the same hookups like the Turf Tiger decks that any changes that help on yours could help on mine. Also what did you do to your blades?? Cant see how you can do much, maybe putting diff spacers under there but other than that i dont see how unless you bought aftermarket blades for it?
Just wondering.
Matt

P&J Lawncare
09-17-2002, 03:38 PM
I have three turf tigers and one hustler super z and there is no comparision between these mowers, the super z is twice the mower. Just to prove my point I would trade 2 of my scags for one super z in a heart beat.

Flex-Deck
09-17-2002, 10:35 PM
Pricing WB's to get people into their brand? Whoa - check out the price of a hydro 36" WB between eXmark, Hustler, Gravely etc, etc.