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sven1277
03-11-2011, 02:55 PM
I have 2 employees I am considering paying salary instead of hourly. They are both good employees. Both have been with me for a year and indicate sticking around for some time.Its tough in the winter for them. They collect unemployment and I pay them cash for snowplowing. But the lack of full time work is hard. I like it because the paycheck is the same each period. No overtime. My wife has concerns that they won't have an incentive to work as hard. I think they will appreciate the income in the winter. I had one employee in the past who was salary. I think it worked well. I had to learn not to overwork him, however and I am more aware of that now. I was going to check their earnings over last year and see what it worked out to.What are your thoughts?

Kelly's Landscaping
03-11-2011, 03:32 PM
I tried this once it was the employees idea id say it worked well for about 6 to 8 weeks. Then came the delusions where the employee claimed he worked a hundred hours a week. Basically friends and family put ideas in his head and he went down hill fast by mid summer he was working 2 to 3 days a week yet collecting his full salary. And still felt he was getting ripped off fall came I fired him he talked his way back but demanded hourly I jumped at it. And sure enough the 3 more weeks he worked his biggest check was 23 hours so much for his tons of overtime.

Now I only have 2 guys on salary myself and my partner the guys often make more with overtime. Personally I feel we get screwed employees of season professions either ought to get overtime or unemployment but not both. Or at the least they should cut the overtime rate its only purpose was to lower unemployment by making it painful to employers to not hire more employees rather then let your current ones take the hours. That's fine but for seasonal workers spring requires significantly more hours then later so extra employees would find lack of work later. Bottom line its a poorly thought out system and I doubt it will change soon.

snomaha
03-11-2011, 03:42 PM
Dept. of labor has pretty strict guidelines on salaried wages. You can potentially set yourself up for DOL audit and subject to fines, penalties and back overtime pay. All it takes is a disgruntled employee to file a complaint.

ncknaklawns
03-12-2011, 10:07 AM
If what is working-keep doing it. If you want to give them more raise their pay.

DanaMac
03-12-2011, 01:12 PM
I have one employee on a nine month salary from April 1 to December 31. We are basically shut down from about Dec. 1 to April 1, but I keep him on a few hours in Dec. to do shop and vehicle stuff. He then collects unemployment from Jan 1 to March 31.

The salary idea was thrown out to him because of a couple reasons, but mainly it would give him a steady consistent check for nine months. We tend to slow down in August and September which limited his hours a little bit. No more highs and lows check to check, same amount every two weeks. He still works plenty of hours when needed, and gets hours off when it is slow. Not everybody can appreciate or understand the salary concept, and they can completely abuse it. But then again, people also abuse the hourly plan as well. It's all in who you hire.

XLS
03-12-2011, 01:38 PM
what we do is get our guys to sign a Labor holding concent fourm stating they are aware and agree that any and ALL overtime will be paid at the end of the year starting Jan-1 and being paid out untill March 15 of the following year . we also tack of 4.00 an hour worked durring the year to go toward paying in the winter so a person works 1000 hours @ his weekly of 18.00 he makes 18,000.00 for his seasonal work and come winter he has $4,000.00 for winter pay to make it 2 poor months to keep him around. also keep in mind at a factory job over 40 is OT but the employee will work 2080 hours reguardless, if its in the agreement for your guys then untill 2080 hours are met NO overtime will be billed and they sign it then it wont really matter. just an idea

snomaha
03-12-2011, 05:15 PM
what we do is get our guys to sign a Labor holding concent fourm stating they are aware and agree that any and ALL overtime will be paid at the end of the year starting Jan-1 and being paid out untill March 15 of the following year . we also tack of 4.00 an hour worked durring the year to go toward paying in the winter so a person works 1000 hours @ his weekly of 18.00 he makes 18,000.00 for his seasonal work and come winter he has $4,000.00 for winter pay to make it 2 poor months to keep him around. also keep in mind at a factory job over 40 is OT but the employee will work 2080 hours reguardless, if its in the agreement for your guys then untill 2080 hours are met NO overtime will be billed and they sign it then it wont really matter. just an idea

Overtime is based on a 7 consecutive day period.

XLS
03-17-2011, 12:05 AM
read it agian I never said it wasnt i said if they agree to it and sign it it covers my tail . we simply log the hours and turn them in at a later date in the year to give them a 40 hour week for all year

snomaha
03-17-2011, 12:55 PM
read it agian I never said it wasnt i said if they agree to it and sign it it covers my tail . we simply log the hours and turn them in at a later date in the year to give them a 40 hour week for all year

Not an expert but have been through a DOL wage and hour audit - We were told that overtime is due at the end of the pay period and can not be held by the employer for future distribution.

Just my two cents. Thumbs Up

Fvstringpicker
03-17-2011, 08:40 PM
I am an expert snomaha and you're essentially correct. So XLS I'd make sure what you're doing is ok. Employees can't sign away their rights prescribed by law. Oftentimes folks think they're covering their butts until a judge and maybe a jury explains it to them.

Roger
03-17-2011, 09:30 PM
From my experiences, what XLS is doing is unlawful. As stated above, the employees may sign a document, but it is the DOL that enforces the rules that dictate. Smearing hours across several pay periods to work around the 40 hour/wk limit is a no-no.

snomaha
03-17-2011, 10:57 PM
I am an expert snomaha and you're essentially correct. So XLS I'd make sure what you're doing is ok. Employees can't sign away their rights prescribed by law. Oftentimes folks think they're covering their butts until a judge and maybe a jury explains it to them.

You must of stayed at a holiday inn express last night! :laugh:

LushGreenLawn
03-18-2011, 12:44 AM
From my experiences, what XLS is doing is unlawful. As stated above, the employees may sign a document, but it is the DOL that enforces the rules that dictate. Smearing hours across several pay periods to work around the 40 hour/wk limit is a no-no.

I agree, why is it that people think they can get their employees to sign a document, and then its ok to skirt labor laws.

You wouldn't have an employee sign a paper saying you can pay him less minimum wage and think you can get away with it would you? (Then again, I wonder about some people on here) It works the same way with falsifying OT records.

PROCUT1
03-18-2011, 03:45 AM
A lawn care worker does not qualify as an employee that can be paid salary.

Georgia Lawn Works LLC
03-18-2011, 10:47 PM
So basicly you are budgeting for them. Your putting away money through out the year so you can continue to pay them when they are not working or not working as much.



Sounds like they need to get their money skills together and learn how to do it on their own.


You think they want to come to work when summer time rolls around now?


Wait untill they have been out of work for the last two months while getting paid and you tell them it's time to start working again. But you'll be making the same as you were before when you were out of work.. Thats hard for anyone to come back to.

LawnsRUsInc.
03-19-2011, 10:51 AM
There is many ways to word an employees contract that will be on salary. Also paying them that way will help keep them off of unemployment. I am not saying every employee should be on salary or should any old employee be paid salary. If you have a go to guy in your business he/she should prolly be placed on salary!

Fvstringpicker
03-19-2011, 11:20 AM
Like the old saying goes, "Anyone who wants to be their to be their own attorney has a fool for a client". Under FLSA, its triple damages to purposely evade overtime requirements.

GreenI.A.
03-19-2011, 02:41 PM
there is a way around what XLS is doing. say the employee is paid $18 an hour and you want to put $4 an hour away like that, you can just set his actual pay at $14 an hour during the season and then come january pay the employee a bonus equivelant to the $4 x hrs worked. I know a guy who does something simular with guys plowing for him, he pays you $15 an hour each week when there is plowing, and then if you plow every time he calls you get a bonus for $10 every hour worked.

vencops
03-19-2011, 04:53 PM
A lawn care worker does not qualify as an employee that can be paid salary.


Sure he does.

But, that doesn't preclude/exempt his employer from overtime pay requirements.

XLS
03-19-2011, 06:33 PM
it is a thing we have done for like 7 of our 12 years and have been questioned for it but never been in trouble or fined for it . it is pay in full its just paid over a different pay period is how its worked out , i have people that actually handle the checks and pays so i could be explaining it all wrong but i know its basicly a salery with bonus pay if that explains it differently but each employee eith signs for the holding or doesnt its his free choice and it really dont make a differance to me eitherway .

LushGreenLawn
03-20-2011, 12:26 PM
it is a thing we have done for like 7 of our 12 years and have been questioned for it but never been in trouble or fined for it . it is pay in full its just paid over a different pay period is how its worked out , i have people that actually handle the checks and pays so i could be explaining it all wrong but i know its basicly a salery with bonus pay if that explains it differently but each employee eith signs for the holding or doesnt its his free choice and it really dont make a differance to me eitherway .

Actually, I get what you are doing..... On paper your running it like a comp time system, which is legal.

When I worked for the man I would take comp time instead of overtime, Instead of OT pay, I got 1 1/2 hour of vacation time for every OT hour, that I could take at me leisure. Your guys are taking it over the winter.

I had a major surgery, and built up 6 months of comp time and took 1/2 a year off to recover.

GreenI.A.
03-20-2011, 01:04 PM
The big thing with this thread is it's like every other thread about pay/accounting/taxes/laws, you have to check with your particular state. Something might be perfectly legal in Texas but doing it in NY could cost you tens of thousands in fines.

TTM42
03-27-2011, 12:03 AM
This may be a dumb question but is an employer required by law to pay overtime if an employee works more than 40 hrs a week?

bighornjd
03-27-2011, 03:53 AM
this may be a dumb question but is an employer required by law to pay overtime if an employee works more than 40 hrs a week?

yes........

TJLANDS
03-27-2011, 10:48 AM
A lawn care worker does not qualify as an employee that can be paid salary.

I have two guys that I keep on salary all year.

It is good idea to have a salaried employee work with hourly employees,
Seems to get the jobs done quicker than all hourly,..... wonder why?

Anybody can be paid salary as long as it is all year.(52 weeks)

If you were to try to pay a salary for a limited time frame you would be up for penalties, unless the employee was fired etc.

snomaha
03-27-2011, 12:31 PM
I have two guys that I keep on salary all year.

It is good idea to have a salaried employee work with hourly employees,
Seems to get the jobs done quicker than all hourly,..... wonder why?

Anybody can be paid salary as long as it is all year.(52 weeks)

If you were to try to pay a salary for a limited time frame you would be up for penalties, unless the employee was fired etc.

Once again not an expert but speaking from experience. Anybody can be paid a salary but that doesn't exclude you from paying overtime if the employee doesn't meet some DOL standards. Does the employee make independent decisions on hiring and firing, do they manage at least two other people, is the majority of their time spent getting their hands dirty vs. estimating or scheduling.

That being said i think there may still be a 500k gross sales threshold before overtime is required - you can contact the DOL for compliance questions free of charge.