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LakeSide Lawn and Landscape
09-18-2002, 09:04 PM
How many aerations can one person do in one day? The lawns are about 8 to 10 thousand squre feet. Ill be using a ryan 18 inch walk behind.I have about 35 to do and 22 of them for friday is this possibile?? Thanks:confused:

TurfGuyTX
09-18-2002, 09:13 PM
That sounds a little tough to me. Hopefully they are close together. Anyone helping? I only use a Lesco 26". Marking sprinkler heads and such don't make it a real fast operation. How much are you charging?

LakeSide Lawn and Landscape
09-18-2002, 09:17 PM
TUERGUYTX....ITS JUST ME AND MOST OF THEM ARE VERY CLOSE TO ONE ANOTHER.IM CHARGING $40 . I NO THATS KINDA CHEAP BUT MY ADVERTISING REALLY PAID OFF FOR ONCE?? LOL THANKS

jeffyr
09-18-2002, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by MandM Lawn Service
I have about 35 to do and 22 of them for friday is this possibile??

Ummmmm.... ouch !

It will be a long hard day. And you will have monkey arms. I used to rent a bluebird 18 inch and could get 13- 5000ft. sq. properties done with aerating, seeding, and fertilizer. They were close together (all within a 2 mile radius). If they are close together and you just aerate you may be able to do near that.....that's over 2 per hour on a 10 hour day man ! Monkey arms for sure ! LOL.

The next 2 days you will be :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:


jeffyr:)

jeffyr
09-18-2002, 09:22 PM
$40 each.......10,000sq. ft. !

Double ouch !!!:eek:

kppurn
09-18-2002, 10:22 PM
That's pretty many to do in one day. You will have to work your tail off. I'm not sure about the area you are in, but you should be able to get more money than that. Here you would pay $60.00 to rent one for the minimum of four hours. You would be doing it for cheaper than the homeowner could do themselves.

65hoss
09-18-2002, 10:58 PM
I can only say, "there ain't no way I'm going to aerate 10k sf for $40." PERIOD Thats not marketing, that's suicide. Oh, and no 1 person can't do that many with that equipment in 1 day.

Currier
09-18-2002, 11:09 PM
I have a lawnaire V. It is the fastest of the ryans and has the widest coring area, I don't think you are going to be able to do 22 in one day. I'd be looking at 12-15 max.

I suppose if they are just flat and open a guy could MAYBE do it, but every lawn is going to have its little squiggles that are going to cost you time.

I'd be looking at rescheduling some of those, and if people squack simply tell them they are getting a one time kiler deal on the pricing and you will be working hard to get to them asap.

Flex-Deck
09-18-2002, 11:18 PM
I have a ryan on a 3 point hitch on a 455 JD tractor - even have an hitch deal that lets me turn when it is in the ground, and it would seem that that many yard in one day would be tough to do. - Just seems like way back before I bought my own aereator that the people that did it charged way more than what you are.

If you are making a living, and that price is OK with you, then go for it, but if you are trying to make a living at it and that is not a profit deal I guess I would think twice.

Randy Scott
09-18-2002, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by MandM Lawn Service
TUERGUYTX....ITS JUST ME AND MOST OF THEM ARE VERY CLOSE TO ONE ANOTHER.IM CHARGING $40 . I NO THATS KINDA CHEAP BUT MY ADVERTISING REALLY PAID OFF FOR ONCE?? LOL THANKS


First off, you needed the word "know" in your sentence, not "no". Secondly, your advertising hasn't really paid off because you have no idea how many you can do in a day, therefore, how do you know it has been worthwhile. When you find out how long it will take you and how little you will make, it will have been a loss all around. Although, you will have succeeded in bringing the market down like the jerkoff around me doing them for $39 when they should be $100. Consider this a lesson learned. I'm beginning to think that the add-ons we once made money at are going to end up like mowing, where every monkeyspank in town has an aerator and gives that service away also. Anyways, get some rest and comfortable shoes. Consider this your good deed for the year!

GarPA
09-19-2002, 02:19 AM
what you charge is your business...but at $40, I wouldn't even start the truck let alone then drive around and beat the aerator to death.....let us know how you feel after doing 8 to 1o of these in one day...perhaps then you'll see why some of us are saying you are giving this work away for almost nothing

Soupy
09-19-2002, 03:48 AM
All I have to say is, SHAME ON YOU, AND PLEASE DON'T RELOCATE TO MY AREA!

Wait, I have something else to say. While your working your tail off and have to take a couple of days to recoup. I want you to think about me Aerating 1 to every 3 you do and makeing the same amount of money. Now think about the guy in your area that makes about the same/more as me and has to lower his prices now because you just degraded this service.

jrblawncare
09-19-2002, 05:25 AM
Good Luck , you will have a long day!! I thought I was low at
8.00 per K ........

lbmd1
09-19-2002, 06:35 AM
Originally posted by Randy Scott



Although, you will have succeeded in bringing the market down like the jerkoff around me doing them for $39 when they should be $100. Consider this a lesson learned. I'm beginning to think that the add-ons we once made money at are going to end up like mowing, where every monkeyspank in town has an aerator and gives that service away also.

There are some on this forum that think this idea is a great form of marketing. Throw their ideas in the trash along with these cheapo giveaways of service that not only cheapen our services, but our profession. This "we'll make it up in volume or add on services" thinking is what makes most businesses fail.

65hoss
09-19-2002, 07:34 AM
Originally posted by lbmd1


There are some on this forum that think this idea is a great form of marketing. Throw their ideas in the trash along with these cheapo giveaways of service that not only cheapen our services, but our profession. This "we'll make it up in volume or add on services" thinking is what makes most businesses fail. ...and makes people think we are just yardboys earning a few extra bucks.

LakeSide Lawn and Landscape
09-19-2002, 08:22 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Randy Scott
[B]


First off, you needed the word "know" in your sentence, not "no". Well Randy I guess you won the gramer/spelling test for the site!!Cogratulations!I "KNOW" you are so proud.Although I didn't ask for a spell check just if anyone would tell me how many they thought i could do in one long day.(maybe your the monkeyjerk)!Anyway,thanks to everyone elses reply,I "KNOW" that is a cheap price as i stated in an earlier post. I'm not saying i will do it next year.But maybe if you all think back to when your business was new and not near the level of achievment it is now,you maybe done some things that you later found out was a bad idea?Your still in business and it got the bills paid,because you worked your a** off for a few days you also got your company names in alot more peoples faces than it was the month before...for the guys new to the business like myself that is what needs to be done.(letting people "KNOW" about your new bussiness) THANKS ALOT!

65hoss
09-19-2002, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by MandM Lawn Service
But maybe if you all think back to when your business was new and not near the level of achievment it is now,you maybe done some things that you later found out was a bad idea?Your still in business and it got the bills paid,because you worked your a** off for a few days you also got your company names in alot more peoples faces than it was the month before...for the guys new to the business like myself that is what needs to be done.(letting people "KNOW" about your new bussiness) [/B]

Many of us did do some bad things. We also didn't have the info and help of places such as this on. We shot completely in the dark. Here is what your missing. Don't think you can "next year" raise the prices back up to what they should be. These customers will already have a previous number from you. They will have already judged you as being cheap. Homeowner tells his friend in another area, "yea, I know this guy that will aerate your yard for you. He did mine, good job too, but he's real cheap. Give him a call." Word of mouth spreads more than you know. Your just panacking right now. Your not getting your name out there for the good. Your getting your name out there as "cheap". Wait 5 years down the road and someone "new" without a clue comes in and offers something your doing to people real cheap. Think future, not just right this minute. Your thinking quantity. Great, you just moved into TGCL mentality.

bubble boy
09-19-2002, 09:48 AM
$40 U.S. would be right in the middle of the pack here...say what you will, i won't make excuses for, or bother to defend, the market where i am.

BUT i will examine his numbers a bit, and feel free to point out if i am wrong in the following analysis.

35 @ $40= $1400

rental-say $240 for three days

this leaves $1160

do the aerations over three days, or $386 a day

for an eight hour day, including pick up and drop off at the rental.

is $48.33 a man hr.

not that bad if you ask me. i know aeration is generally a profit leader, and margins should be near the margins for weed control and such, but seems this guy was really laid into for almost $50 / hr.

65hoss
09-19-2002, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by bubble boy
$40 U.S. would be right in the middle of the pack here...say what you will, i won't make excuses for, or bother to defend, the market where i am.

BUT i will examine his numbers a bit, and feel free to point out if i am wrong in the following analysis.

35 @ $40= $1400

rental-say $240 for three days

this leaves $1160

do the aerations over three days, or $386 a day

for an eight hour day, including pick up and drop off at the rental.

is $48.33 a man hr.

not that bad if you ask me. i know aeration is generally a profit leader, and margins should be near the margins for weed control and such, but seems this guy was really laid into for almost $50 / hr.

If your really concerned about your biz and the money think about what you left on the table. With this mentality your thinking and acting as an hourly employee. Time to think like a long-term business owner.

bubble boy
09-19-2002, 11:07 AM
i guess for some areas there's "some left on the table". but again, here, advertise $100 Cdn and you might get 6 rather than 40.

thats why we don't do many aerations. truth is, between cutting, landscaping, and fert and weed applications, where is the time?

of the three main services we offer, aeration profit should be (and when we do them is) amongst the highest. but how many can we get? i could cut back a crew's cutting schedule but even then how many aerations, even at the higher margin, would i need to generate the profits that lawn cutting does? cutting has lower margins but huge revenue numbers for us.

i was of course just using the hourly figure to illustrate a point. many here on LS talk of making this amount of money per hour (sure, maybe at cutting) but this guy was NAILED.

don't get me wrong, any hourly figures i use are in my head. this was discussed here recently, i never discuss hourly rates with customers. just use the calculations to ensure i make my desired margins.

but the point of leaving some $ at the prop, so to speak, is WELL taken.

GroundKprs
09-19-2002, 04:05 PM
40 @ $35 = $1400

8-10 K => 1 hr each with LA4 (just 1 pass) => 35 hr

4 9-hr days: rental = $320?

$1080 net after rental, 35 hr min => $30.86/hr. Then there is your overhead (truck doesn't run for nothing, time for billing, advertising cost, etc.)

$1400 gross, 35 hr => $40/hr. Not very good pricing for an expensive, little used machine.

After 15 years of aeration I still run an LA4, because it does the best real aeration job of any aerator except the Verti-Drain. But pricing is more like $80/hr. M&M has missed $40/hr profit.

And a single pass is a waste of time in our soils. Just did an 8K lawn, 2 passes, for $135.

So let's see: M&M might actually pocket $18-21 (before taxes, if he is not black market) per hour for this aeration experiment. Of course, we're not including recuperation time! LOL! At an $80/hr rate, he would be pocketing $58-61/hr before taxes.

Don't feel bad, M&M, I've done partial aerations for free, just so the client and I can see if it is a benefit on his site.

MJStrain
09-19-2002, 06:18 PM
Don't know what is in the air today but you guys have been dumping on people all day long in post after post. Had a bad week? Or are you “Senior Members” all out to dump a load on the little operators?

LakeSide Lawn and Landscape
09-19-2002, 07:18 PM
Well many of you are wright!!!Isee what you mean about leaving money on the table,however we got a flyer today that said they were doing them for twenty($20.00) now that is too cheap!So i got to thinking its probably a good think i got the ones i do have because most of the people would have probably went with the guy for $20.00.Although as i said earlier i know $40.00 is cheap but it sounds preaty dang good to me considering i may not have even got that if the other guy charging $20 would have got to those people first. THANKS

LAWNGODFATHER
09-20-2002, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by Randy Scott



First off, you needed the word "know" in your sentence, not "no". Secondly, your advertising hasn't really paid off because you have no idea how many you can do in a day, therefore, how do you know it has been worthwhile. When you find out how long it will take you and how little you will make, it will have been a loss all around. Although, you will have succeeded in bringing the market down like the jerkoff around me doing them for $39 when they should be $100. Consider this a lesson learned. I'm beginning to think that the add-ons we once made money at are going to end up like mowing, where every monkeyspank in town has an aerator and gives that service away also. Anyways, get some rest and comfortable shoes. Consider this your good deed for the year!

Damn good reading for the day, thanks, and it wasn't even me whom posted it.

If you all think about this he is only at $4 per 1000 sq/ft his $40 should have been atleast $80 per a shot, but it is a start, a biz mistake, and he will learn a lesson.

Remeber not everyone on here remebers all of what they read. So go back and reread what you are trying to do before you do it!!!

Just remeber dude that $20 guy will work his ASSSS off, but make little money, we are trying to make you alot of money with a whole lot less work.

KirbysLawn
09-20-2002, 01:31 AM
Well I put my .02 cents worth also. SOME people are screwing the market for everyone and themselves. I am booked solid until October 5th...solid. At noon Monday I had 23 voice mails, all confirming aerations or aeravations at $24-$45 per k.

I have given several quotes and qot the "funny look" when I got to price, I knew then they had been offered the $20 or $40 deal and wanted to know why I was asking $220 for a 10k lawn. Once I did my sales pitch thing and closed they were on my schedule.

I spent all day Monday aerating...on the last one I said screw this and fired up the aeravator, road thru that one and plan on aerating only 3-4 more, the others are getting aeravated or nothing...getting too old to walk behind that beast all day.

I am making $80 hour and I say screw that, if you think charging $40 means you are making $40 then you are way wrong. Taxes...you pay them right? Fuel...need that...your time geting the word out, that took time and money right?

I guess my last question would be: "WHY WOULD YOU CHARGE SOMEONE LESS THAN IF THEY RENTED THE MACHINE THEMSELF?? I mean if rental is $50 and they weight the options and pay you $80 they have still come out better.

And lastly check this out...we have a local guy, nice flyer, has a $99 "Front Lawn Special" aerate/seed/fertilizer $99...no fine print. One of my customers has a front lawn that is 33k, we are planning to have him come out and give the "special". And what's better? He has on the flyer FREE 3 day trip to Hilton Head with 2 rounds of golf with purchase....good grief. :rolleyes:

I thought we were in this to make a living, not screw ourself and save other people money.

strickdad
09-20-2002, 01:47 AM
well said ray, well said...

kppurn
09-20-2002, 11:15 AM
"Free trip to hilton head"

Just when you think you've seen it all:rolleyes:

greenngrow
09-20-2002, 11:55 AM
Hey MandM,

You need to get with the guy that tried to talk me down on a aeration and overseeding. This guy had over 12 k of lawn and one mean *** dog. I gave him a price of 275.00 for the front (9000 sq ft). He asked if I would do the total yard for 250.00.

I came back with a counter offer of 300.00 for the whole yard. I gave him a card and have not heard from him. Oh by the way this guy flies the big jets for Delta and his wife is a RN at a big Hospital.

doesn't this just make you:blob2: :blob2: mad.

The I figure this for him to do this himself. Rent a machine $100.00 per day and the seed $100 to $150.00. I would let him do the work for $50.00 and walk the damn yard.

Randy Scott
09-20-2002, 11:57 AM
Proven fact we are all aware of, 9 out of 10 new lawn and landscape companies fail.
:eek:

KLMlawn
09-20-2002, 02:52 PM
Thatching = .02 per sq.ft
Aeration = .02 per sq.ft. (yes that is high, but an aerator can be mean to you)
Seed + Fert = .02 per sq.ft.

I get .06 per sq.ft. from every customer I provide the above services to. They may be a bit skeptical at first over the price, but after they see the results, the feel it was worth every penny. AND, a bargain over sod any day of the week.....

Grasshog
09-20-2002, 10:07 PM
the most I have ever done in a day was 21. Started around 930 am and finished about 630pm. I dont recall how many we seeded and fertilized. We used one R5 and a Lesco 48" pull behind.

By time you read this you should of tried to do your 22 today.
How many did you get done. Bet your feet hurt

KerryB
09-25-2002, 08:57 AM
Hope you have the number of a good chiropractor.

jeffyr
09-25-2002, 01:23 PM
So how did it go M&M ?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

LakeSide Lawn and Landscape
09-25-2002, 02:01 PM
Well i got them all done in the two day time period!The biggest lawn was probably only 8,000 square feet instead of 10.Also got two Mowing accounts and have to plant some juniper on a bank at one of those,so it wasnt too bad would probably not do it that cheap again but,i did pick up some new accounts so that was great.....:D p.s. i hope Randy Scott ,(our Spelling Champ)is reading this i may have missspelled something :rolleyes: Thanks to everyone elses replies!

musselman
09-25-2002, 02:05 PM
I hope he got them all done in one day...nothing wrong with putting in a long hard day and if he did he made alot of money...if he dint and it takes him several days then he will know better next time....I know many of you did the hit and miss thing for years without the help of this forum and you have learned alot and helped us newer guys a ton ...thanks. But on the other hand I way undercharge compared to what you say you get and I seem to be making very good money...and yes Im insured and pay my taxes. It depends on location, location, location...I can buy a sweet 2 story house with an acer around it here for $100,000 or less..ill bet some of you would be in the 500,000 or more in your location....makes it a bit easier to charge less for a job...I would not get any...zero...even high end custemers would tell me to take a hike at some of the prices I see here..anyways I also believe that if you cant get atleast 10 10K yards done in a day you aint worth $40.00 an hour. Those of you who wish to correct my spelling and grammer please do...just remember I may not be able to spell but I can mow with the best of you....and in this buisness ill let my secratary do the spelling. We can all help each other alot with our knowledge, but when it comes to pricing none of can say one way or the other untill we are in the shoes of the one giving the bid...It just cant be done

jeffyr
09-25-2002, 02:46 PM
You have a secretary :eek:

musselman
09-25-2002, 09:29 PM
yes..she HOT...lol it is my wife...and can spell and works for food and if im lucky......i get lucky

jeffyr
09-26-2002, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by musselman
yes..she HOT...lol it is my wife...

Then I guess I have one too. Should I have had that part added to the wedding vows or was it part on a pre-nump agreement? :D

LakeSide Lawn and Landscape
09-26-2002, 07:47 PM
Thank you to everyone that replied!!! I'm going to be advertising this service again next week in different neighborhoods,and yes my price will be higher!Ill let you all know how it goes,once again thanks!!!:)

LAWNGODFATHER
09-29-2002, 02:10 AM
I was browsing through some stuff I got in the mail and found this in the Turfco "How do I get started in aeration?" brochure.

Don't Undersell

One big mistake too many make is underselling the service to get started. Do not do this!! Have an established price and stick to it. A special now and then is ok as long as customers understand it is a special, such as a "start up special" for new customers. General discounting of a service will only harm you in the long run.

Tony Harrell
09-29-2002, 08:13 AM
If you're in the "Nascar-Neighborhoods" of Mooresville that I'm thinking about, you're not getting paid. Anytime I'm physically abused, the price goes up. You could do half the work at twice the price and not get beat up so bad. You are in it for the money, right?