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View Full Version : Can You De-Rate a Trailer in NY to Avoid CDL?


4 seasons lawn&land
03-14-2011, 07:09 PM
I told my uncle that I have to derate my small tag equipment trailer when I get a dually truck to stay under CDL and he said in NY you cant. That DOT wont look at the registration alone but at the trailer manufacturer plate too and they have to match up. That would be BS if people have to sell thier trailers and buy new ones for this reason. I understand that obviously if you derate anything then you can no longer use it at its full capacity.

ParkWelding
03-14-2011, 08:39 PM
SO what happens when the plate isn't there anymore...

I don't buy that they have to match up. Why would you be able to/have to state the gvwr on the title/registration application then?

Anything's possible in NY though. I'll let you know what happens WHEN I get pulled over with my new-old trailer this year. 22,000gvwr, will be reg for 17,000gvwr.

mow4cash
03-14-2011, 08:55 PM
I think you can de-rate. You might have to register it as modified. If you get pulled over only thing that matters is that your not overweight. But that my 2cent.

4 seasons lawn&land
03-14-2011, 09:22 PM
what are towing the 22k trailer with? My Cam is 16K and Im 400 lbs under 26k when pulling with my 3/4 ton.

wellbuilt
03-15-2011, 12:11 AM
I down graded my 12000ld trailer to 10000lb to be under CDL.
It was working like a charm until i met with my favorite DOT officer .
He put me out of service and sent me home with out my trailer with a $ 5000 ticket in my pocket on Christmas eve day .

What makes you a specific GVWR in my area is Tires, Axle WT , hitch rating .
My trailer was a 12000 lb trailer that was down graded to 10000lb from the manufacture the only difference was the certificate of origin sticker.
I called the manufactured in pa and told him my problem and for 35 bucks he sent me a certificate of origin sticker for the trailer with my vin number .
I studied for my CDL christmas eve/ christmas day and the following day and took my written test and passed with 1 wrong on all the sections .
Three days later i passed the road test .
Its easy just get the CDL .
The office let me slide on the ticket since i showed up with the trailer registration in order and a class A CDL in 7 days .

Park weld you are fine with a lower gvwr , you pay less for the registration .
John

ParkWelding
03-15-2011, 07:21 AM
2500 ram diesel - 9k GVWR

limaint
03-15-2011, 07:53 AM
It's cheaper to pay the fine for being out of class than for being overweight on a de-rated trailer.

ParkWelding
03-15-2011, 08:34 AM
Who said anything about being over weight?

limaint
03-15-2011, 09:03 AM
To get the tag trailer under 10K you would have which axles?

ParkWelding
03-15-2011, 11:09 AM
Who was talking about a trailer under 10K?

4seasons was speaking of registering a trailer currently reg at 16K at a lower weight to accommodate a little larger truck than his 3/4ton

I was talking about the same situation, just larger numbers, to stay under 26K combined with a trailer over 10K.

Duffster
03-15-2011, 02:53 PM
I told my uncle that I have to derate my small tag equipment trailer when I get a dually truck to stay under CDL and he said in NY you cant. That DOT wont look at the registration alone but at the trailer manufacturer plate too and they have to match up. That would be BS if people have to sell thier trailers and buy new ones for this reason. I understand that obviously if you derate anything then you can no longer use it at its full capacity.

You can derate a trailer but not with the registration. It has to be done on the title, and then a new VIN plate.

It's cheaper to pay the fine for being out of class than for being overweight on a de-rated trailer.

Operating out of class is the same as operating without a license which will get you thrown in jail.

Duffster
03-15-2011, 03:07 PM
I down graded my 12000ld trailer to 10000lb to be under CDL.
It was working like a charm until i met with my favorite DOT officer .
He put me out of service and sent me home with out my trailer with a $ 5000 ticket in my pocket on Christmas eve day .

What makes you a specific GVWR in my area is Tires, Axle WT , hitch rating .
My trailer was a 12000 lb trailer that was down graded to 10000lb from the manufacture the only difference was the certificate of origin sticker.
I called the manufactured in pa and told him my problem and for 35 bucks he sent me a certificate of origin sticker for the trailer with my vin number .
I studied for my CDL christmas eve/ christmas day and the following day and took my written test and passed with 1 wrong on all the sections .
Three days later i passed the road test .
Its easy just get the CDL .
The office let me slide on the ticket since i showed up with the trailer registration in order and a class A CDL in 7 days .

Park weld you are fine with a lower gvwr , you pay less for the registration .
John

I don't get it.

Why did you need a class A if your trailer is rated at 10k GVWR?

CLARK LAWN
03-15-2011, 03:56 PM
I don't get it.

Why did you need a class A if your trailer is rated at 10k GVWR?

im guessing there is more to that story that we will never hear.

4 seasons lawn&land
03-15-2011, 07:04 PM
You can derate a trailer but not with the registration. It has to be done on the title, and then a new VIN plate.



Operating out of class is the same as operating without a license which will get you thrown in jail.



Ah, Yes! That sounds like eough of a PITA to be true! NY:dizzy:

I do want to get a CDL but I need a helper to be able to drive my junk.

mow4cash
03-15-2011, 07:55 PM
I down graded my 12000ld trailer to 10000lb to be under CDL.
It was working like a charm until i met with my favorite DOT officer .
He put me out of service and sent me home with out my trailer with a $ 5000 ticket in my pocket on Christmas eve day .

What makes you a specific GVWR in my area is Tires, Axle WT , hitch rating .
My trailer was a 12000 lb trailer that was down graded to 10000lb from the manufacture the only difference was the certificate of origin sticker.
I called the manufactured in pa and told him my problem and for 35 bucks he sent me a certificate of origin sticker for the trailer with my vin number .
I studied for my CDL christmas eve/ christmas day and the following day and took my written test and passed with 1 wrong on all the sections .
Three days later i passed the road test .
Its easy just get the CDL .
The office let me slide on the ticket since i showed up with the trailer registration in order and a class A CDL in 7 days .

Park weld you are fine with a lower gvwr , you pay less for the registration .
John

Thats good to know. So if the trailer manf. downgrades it is ok? Or is it that it was built out of state?

ParkWelding
03-15-2011, 07:56 PM
That is wrong, at least in NY. There is only unladen weight on any NY title that I have ever seen. GVWR is stated by the registrant at the time of registration.

(I was referring to post #11)

4 seasons lawn&land
03-15-2011, 08:08 PM
Hes right. I took a look at the title. No one carries their title with them anyway but something tells me that you do have to get that new Manufacture plate or origin sticker for some reason. Then the question would be weather or not the particular trailer manufacturer would be willing to do it or not.

ParkWelding
03-15-2011, 09:28 PM
Maybe there is something to do other than stating max gvw when registering, i still don't believe it though. I would believe it if someone could prove it. As far as my business is concerned, it has been proven to me second hand thru inspection by the most picky DOT officer that patrols areas where I do business, that registering a trailer for the lower max gvwr that you will use, even though the trailer was rated higher by the manufacturer, is correct.

Example:
Another business owner, whom I have a professional relationship with, had to pass thru a weigh station and inspection on a NYS highway. Was fine. Immediately after was stopped by local DOT officer who wanted to scale his rig. Was fine. No one that drives the truck/trailer for his company has CDL.

The rig-Crew cab F350 dually and gooseneck deckover flatbed equipment trailer with tandem duals. Trailer was plated by manufacturer at somewhere in the 19K-21K range. Trailer was simply registered for the appropriate gvwr# to, in combination with said F350, add up to 26k.

With the truck and that size trailer with the equipment and tanks that are mounted on it, it screams "pull me over and check me out". It is Legal.

If those inspections resulted in the conclusion that the registered gvw is what's important, than that's what I'll go with.

I would have liked to purchase a new trailer to the exact specs that I need for my use, but it isn't/wasn't in the budget. I'll roll with my sweet de-rated 1982 Eager Beaver until further notice.

ParkWelding
03-15-2011, 09:38 PM
4 seasons- The Cam trailer you have, does that have 7000# or 8000# axles? What do you haul on it?

I was looking at the low deck equipment trailers they make that have 8000# axles, but they got too far out of my price range and my excavator would fit tween the fenders with only 1/2" to 3/4" clearance on either side.

wellbuilt
03-15-2011, 09:39 PM
I don't get it.

Why did you need a class A if your trailer is rated at 10k GVWR?

When i bought the trailer the trailer was a 10,000/ 12000lb trailer .
Since i was pulling with a f 350 I was under CDL .
I moved up to a cab over dump and went over CDL buy 2000lbs so since my trailer was listed as a 10/ 12000lb trailer i down graded it at motor vehicle to 10000lbs .
I never saw the wt rating on my certificate of origin sticker witch was 12000lbs in very small numbers with the vin # .

Some trailer manufacturer will down grade the trailer for you .
The trailer manufacturer that helped me out was ringo out of PA.
good trailer good people .
I went for my cdl after the trailer was down graded because i have 2 dump trailers that are 12000lbs that i could not get the wt changed .
In the last 2 years i bought a heavier truck to larger tag trailers 16000 /
22000 12000lb EX and a new to me dozer .
There is only one way to go , Up John

Duffster
03-15-2011, 09:59 PM
That is wrong, at least in NY. There is only unladen weight on any NY title that I have ever seen. GVWR is stated by the registrant at the time of registration.

(I was referring to post #11)

How do you "state" the GVWR?

GVWR is what is on the ID tag on the trailer.

wellbuilt
03-15-2011, 10:07 PM
Maybe there is something to do other than stating max gvw when registering, i still don't believe it though. I would believe it if someone could prove it. As far as my business is concerned, it has been proven to me second hand thru inspection by the most picky DOT officer that patrols areas where I do business, that registering a trailer for the lower max gvw that you will use, even though the trailer was rated higher by the manufacturer, is correct.

Example:
Another business owner, whom I have a professional relationship with, had to pass thru a weigh station and inspection on a NYS highway. Was fine. Immediately after was stopped by local DOT officer who wanted to scale his rig. Was fine. No one that drives the truck/trailer for his company has CDL.

The rig-Crew cab F350 dually and goose neck deck over flatbed equipment trailer with tandem duals. Trailer was plated by manufacturer at somewhere in the 19K-21K range. Trailer was simply registered for the appropriate gvwr# to, in combination with said F350, add up to 26k.

With the truck and that size trailer with the equipment and tanks that are mounted on it, it screams "pull me over and check me out". It is Legal.

If those inspections resulted in the conclusion that the registered gvw is what's important, than that's what I'll go with.

I would have liked to purchase a new trailer to the exact specs that I need for my use, but it isn't/wasn't in the budget. I'll roll with my sweet derated 1982 Eager Beaver until further notice.

If your truck is registered to a business and has signed ( Commercial vehicle ) and is pulled over you will be jailed and impounded ( no question )

If I load up my sail boat 17000lbs and head off with the wife and kids for some boating no one even looks at me . (Pleasure use)

If you are towing with a none commercial truck you could get away with it once or twice maybe .
The fine on my ticket was $5000 You don't want to go there .
It just is not legal Get the guys there CDL
John

ParkWelding
03-16-2011, 07:58 AM
You say it's not legal. Tell me why its not legal. Please tell me how a combined truck/trailer combination at or under 26K, is not legal.

Duffster
03-16-2011, 09:08 AM
You say it's not legal. Tell me why its not legal. Please tell me how a combined truck/trailer combination at or under 26K, is not legal.

Not legal without a class A?

Here.

new-old trailer this year. 22,000gvwr,.

2500 ram diesel - 9k GVWR

22k + 9k = 31k GCWR.

4 seasons lawn&land
03-16-2011, 11:00 AM
My trailer is the 7 ton model with 7000 lb axles so I guess that leaves a 2000 lb hitch weight. There is one larger model than my trailer before you go to tri's or dual's.

ParkWelding
03-16-2011, 01:29 PM
Not legal without a class A?

Here.





22k + 9k = 31k GCWR.

The original topic was de-rating trailers in NY. Why don't you quote the whole sentence, if you're going to quote at all??

wellbuilt
03-16-2011, 11:24 PM
You say it's not legal. Tell me why its not legal. Please tell me how a combined truck/trailer combination at or under 26K, is not legal.

A 26000lb combo is legal , But if you have a trailer with no certificate of orange sticker with your vin #s on it from the manufacture .
The dot officer just adds up the pay load of your tires checks your axle weight ( Its marked most of the time ) and looks at your hitch its a no brain-er . They will lock you up and impound your rig.
Your registered WT can be down graded to hall less and pay less road tax , but as far as a cdl gos you better get one .

Duffster
03-17-2011, 09:20 AM
The original topic was de-rating trailers in NY. Why don't you quote the whole sentence, if you're going to quote at all??

Because you asked how you would not be legal. For purposes of DL GVWR is really all that matters.

mybowtie
03-17-2011, 10:07 AM
Dave you will get nailed derating your trailer. May take a while, might not.
If you plan on gettin your cdl, why take a chanch?? Get the CDL and dont worry about it. The one thing we have going for us around here is we dont see too many DOT guys around here. But with the state needing $$ thats gonna change.....

GravelyNut
03-17-2011, 02:07 PM
Not legal without a class A?

Here.





22k + 9k = 31k GCWR.

And they would still get him for being illegal. Legal GCWR for that truck is way lower. 22K or 24K. That trailer would use up most or all of its GCWR.

4 seasons lawn&land
03-17-2011, 08:07 PM
Dave you will get nailed derating your trailer. May take a while, might not.
If you plan on gettin your cdl, why take a chanch?? Get the CDL and dont worry about it. The one thing we have going for us around here is we dont see too many DOT guys around here. But with the state needing $$ thats gonna change.....

I will do it the legal way if there is one. Thats what Im trying to figure out here. If I can get a new VIN plate from Cam then I should be good to go.

4 seasons lawn&land
03-18-2011, 12:36 PM
If your truck is registered to a business and has signed ( Commercial vehicle ) and is pulled over you will be jailed and impounded ( no question )

If I load up my sail boat 17000lbs and head off with the wife and kids for some boating no one even looks at me . (Pleasure use)

If you are towing with a none commercial truck you could get away with it once or twice maybe .
The fine on my ticket was $5000 You don't want to go there .
It just is not legal Get the guys there CDL
John

were you actually hauling overweight?

wellbuilt
03-19-2011, 12:45 AM
were you actually hauling overweight?

You know how it is we are always close no matter what , I hate rolling empty .
I was lucky i had my bucket in the back of the truck .
My trailer was at 3100lbs and the EX was 7400. 10,500 but it balanced out to just under 10000lbs on the scale .
The thing is my new rig is still close 11000lb 3300 14000lb trailer .
I have not run over a scale yet to check out the weight on the trailer but it pulls good . John

mybowtie
03-19-2011, 06:47 AM
I will do it the legal way if there is one. Thats what Im trying to figure out here. If I can get a new VIN plate from Cam then I should be good to go.

Then why did u buy a 14k trailer? To derate it?? Sounds like a half assed way to do things.

4 seasons lawn&land
03-19-2011, 10:24 AM
You know how it is we are always close no matter what , I hate rolling empty .
I was lucky i had my bucket in the back of the truck .
My trailer was at 3100lbs and the EX was 7400. 10,500 but it balanced out to just under 10000lbs on the scale .
The thing is my new rig is still close 11000lb 3300 14000lb trailer .
I have not run over a scale yet to check out the weight on the trailer but it pulls good . John


So all together was it over 26 in actual weight?

wellbuilt
03-19-2011, 01:11 PM
So all together was it over 26 in actual weight?

The actual WT has nothing to do with being over WT .
The gvwr of the truck is 16,000
the old trailer was gvwr of 12, 000 = 28000lbs
trailer Registration was for 10,000 lbs ( downgraded ) 16000lb + 10,000 =26000lbs
actual WT of truck trailer and EX was around 20000lbs so now , I was under cdl by 6000lbs .
This is all BS but it is what it is .
Its easy to get a cdl for your truck and trailer once you get your new truck sit down with your drivers and study the the on line test .
I studied for 24hrs in a row and took the test on the 4 day .

You don't need the whole test just the class a trailer , Trailer tie down ,
and pre test inspection , It mite be 80 questions .
You guys can take the test one after the other on the same day .
My guys just read the cdl book and passed the test but they are school smart . I'm not The only problem with having a cdl is all your traffic tickets cost big bucks and there is no tolerance for drinking and driving at all . plus you need a med card from the doctor . John

tbi
06-16-2011, 12:55 PM
Combined gross GVW over 26k requires a CDL. It doesn't matter what you register it at it's all about what it's tagged at. And yes they do look at the tags.

Duffster
06-16-2011, 01:35 PM
Combined gross GVW over 26k requires a CDL.

Don't you mean GVWR?

Either way. Not necessarily.

Think about what a F550 pulling a 10k trailer would need.