View Full Version : tired of scraping by inthis busines and ready to make CASH! Help?

09-20-2002, 10:08 AM
Thanks t those that have helped so far. I just thought I would move this to its own thread since I was needing advice and regular mowing to. Thanks.
I just jumped in on this thread and have had alot to read! Now I will tell a little about my situation and ask my questions. I dont live in a large MONEY area here in west Kentucky.I have been trying for about 6 years now to make a living in this business. The last year has been both low points for me as far as financial problems , as well as an eye opener to the simple fact that I dont charge enough money.I have tired of reading and hearing about all the money others make at this while I scrape by. It is time to do something about it. 2 people I know that make good money say that they mentally charge about 1 dollar per minute on yards they mow when making a quote. Another guy does not have a riding mower at all. He has all push mowers. A typical day has his crew of 2 or 3 roll up to a yard, 1 pushes the front, 1 pushes the back, a 3rd weedeats and he picks up trash, blows and collects the money. They do a BUNCH of yards everyday this way. i think his last year was $65,000 in mowing alone.
Ok everybody is this the way to price mowing? What are some other methods for pricing mowing jobs. The guy that gets 1 dollar per minute has a 60 inch cut grasshopper, the other a Dixie Chopper. I have a few that I average a dollar a minute on. The rest are not that high. I have 2 Dixons. ( I know they are not that well thought of on this forum but I have to use what I have for now.) They are 50 inch decks with 22 horse KOHLER motors. My grass catcher is just a standard twin bag grass catcher off an MTD rider that I converted the bagger to fit a dixon. The other Dixon has a good mulch kit under it that works great. I usually use the method of mulching with one and bagging with the other, and then dumping it in my truck bed. Whats a good hourly rate for this? I usually have another guy that rakes and blows leaves out of the flower beds. Should I hire a 3rd guy for a different method? What about the jobs where they have me blow the leaves into the yard and mulch till they are gone? How should I price that.? My mistake in the past was the same as 1 of the earlier posters to this thread. I have generally mulched as many weeks as I could and charged about 10 bucks over my mowing price. The bottom line is that when the leaves are all gone from everybody, I have made very little money. Less than $1,500.
Also back to mowing. How do you all do the price when you have something big that you stay with all day. 1 or 2 huge yards where you have almost no truck driving time. I've been getting 130 bucks total out of 2 yards side by side about 30 seconds away from my house. But they pretty much take up my whole day. Is this bad pricing? Thanks in advance for any advice you can give. Like I said, Im fed up and ready to start making serios money I can live on. I am extremely Independent and could never have much success working for someone else at a regular job. Nor could I ever make any real money that way.

09-20-2002, 10:35 AM
Let me start by saying that I am not posting to bash you. I am going to tery and help! If you are getting $130.00 for 2 lawns and it takes most of your day, that is grosslt underpricing. There is no way you could survive on that! Even if it took you 6 hours that is only 21.66 an hour. Also how many hours a day do you work? One thing I see on hear a lot is guys saying they work 8 hours a day 5 days a week and refuse to work on sunday, etc. etc. Now if they can survive fine, but depending on your market, you may have to work 12 hours a day 6 days a week for depending how long your season is. You need to try to find out what guys in your area are charging, and see if your in line with those numbers, I am going to guess that you are much lower! Where I am it should take about 2.5 hours to make 130.00. Good Luck and Hang in there! Sig

09-20-2002, 10:58 AM
SIG, I appreciate the response. I certainly didnt think you were putting me down. You were just telling the truth. Yes the truth can hurt nd I have begun to see that I am BAD! BAD! BAD! underpriced. This is the first tyear that I have tried it full time. At my old job, if I brought home 500 bucks every 2 weeks we did ok financially. ( this in conjunction with my wifes income. ) Now with me bringing in about 400 a week, which is 800 every 2 weeks, I am worse off than when I started. I was already beginning to se that the hourly rate was gonna have to go UP! I guess Ill have to do my homework during the offseason and regroup for next season. I may still be able to salvage some money for leaf season at least.

09-20-2002, 11:09 AM
DO NOT COMPARE WHAT YOU MADE AT YOUR OTHER JOB TO WHAT YOU SHOULD MAKE BEING IS BUSINESS FOR YOURSELF!!!!! I don't know what kind of work you where in previosly, I am going to assume construction or trade work. Remember, who ever you worked for was making money off of YOU. So right from the start you are worth 3 times that much or more. It is a very common mistake for people to make when coming from another line of work/ working for someone else. But we need to start thinking, I am doing something that somebody else can't or doesn't want to do. When you get you car fixed, that don't chare 20.00 an hour, they charge 60 or 70 an hour, now the mechanic might get 20.00 but the guy that owns the place has overhead and is in business to MAKE money, you are doing the exact same thing. If your customers are getting a "sweet" deal they probably know it and will be O.K. with it if you have to start raising your prices, if not, tell them to pound sand, they wouldn't work for nothing???? Would they!

09-20-2002, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by lawnagent
He has all push mowers. A typical day has his crew of 2 or 3 roll up to a yard, 1 pushes the front, 1 pushes the back, a 3rd weedeats and he picks up trash, blows and collects the money. They do a BUNCH of yards everyday this way. i think his last year was $65,000 in mowing alone.Robert

Don't compare yourself with this guy. He isn't making any money either. After taxes, insurance, fuel, truck, maintenance and payroll for 3 guys he's lucky to break even. He's telling you revenue, not what HE makes. Don't be deceived. Its not as easy as it seems, that is why so many scrubs are out of business so quick. Its time to sit down and take a hard look at everything. Figure out where the problems are. Equipment might be one. Drive time might be. Pricing might be. Marketing might be. Jack of all trades might be.

I moved this from the other thread. Your not alone with this situation.

09-20-2002, 01:59 PM
I will chime in on this one later tonight.

09-20-2002, 03:27 PM
Don't desperaste, take it easy, sleep well don't think you can change this overnight.
I would recomend to set up a yearly price for every customer, track down how much time you spend in each property, came up with a price for every cut and multiply it by the weeks that you would normally mow for the entire year.
for leaves I use to charge by the hour that it takes to blow leaves and haul'em if need it (include dumping fee too), but now I mostly much all the month of october and do a final clean up wich takes way less time than before.
So I usually add to my price 5 more cuts and tha covers the fall clean up price. put everything together and make a 8-10 or 12 monthly payments (whichever fits you better)

I'd say with your equipment that you own right now it would be better to get small yards, try not to get many big accounts at this moment, explaing the situation to your worker try to work smarter not harder, do a exceptional job on any property you maintain regardless of the price you are charging at this moment,
word of mouth is the best advertisement, talk with your customers frequently to see if you can offer'em any other service, gain their trust, raise up your prices but explain'em first.

Don't try to get as many customers as you can, try to get the best customer around and be the best company in your area, that will separete you from the rest.

09-20-2002, 06:57 PM
Been there, brother. When I first started, I did it part time for mad money. I did a few for $12-15!!!:eek:

The thing is, it is hard to raise the prices to where they should be unless you can wait 5 years and get it up 5-10% a year.

You need to try to get some newer customers with a pricing schedule more in line with the market in that area (unless you are over run by scrubs)

I agree that $1 per minute is a good goal to shoot for. If the equipment cannot handle it, get something that will.

Hey, don't be too hard on yourself. We had a serious drought and most of us felt the pinch. Look at it as an opportunity to get some new customers. Lots of people out there upset with their services!

Good luck.

09-20-2002, 08:43 PM
there is a lot of great information here (espicialy on this page,
cant spell sorry).

I pretty much stay quiet around here, but a question maybe useless to one but may be the answer for another.

Do the search thing everybody talks about
What part of zone 6 are you in ?

I will say this you are one step ahead of me I have been cutting for five years now have managed to get some nice equipment
( still not enough ) and have some good clients but still part time
I WHOP to go to full time next year.


LB Landscaping
09-20-2002, 09:15 PM
Hey keep your head up. There has been alot of good advice on other posts that will help you. The search feature has been a big help to me. I have been in the business for a couple of years and this year things have really taken off for me. I have found that if you provide good service people will be willing to pay you what you are worth. I too priced low at first and man you can get burnt out fast that way. One thing that I works for me is having a minimum price for mowing. Its not worth it to me to take an account thats lower when I figure travel, gas you know all the expenses involved. I figure I make $1 a minute on my large jobs but the smaller ones that take a quick 10 or 15 mins would not work at the $1 a minute. Don't be scared to ask for what you deserve, if you do good work people will pay for it. Good Luck!!!!!:D :D

Green Pastures
09-21-2002, 12:39 AM

1- Minumum price for mowing. You can't afford to show up at a house with the equipment you described for less than $45.00. If you have jobs you charge less for, consider dropping them GENTLEY, unless you're SURE you're making money on them. The plumber charger $45.00 just to come to your door..........hhmmmm Why can he get away with that? Cuz they ALL do it. Maybe landscapers should take a hint.

2- Contracts, contracts, contracts, contracts, contracts.....did I say do NOT do ANY work for anybody without a CONTRACT? Contracts made me think about bidding more. Ie. you're stuck with the price just like the customer is. You tend to spend more time thinking "Am I really going to be happy making X amount of $$ for this whole year?"

3- This should have been first.......pray before you leave your house EVERY morning. God knows everything, and sees the past and future at the same time. He can help. Trust me.

4- Keep your equipment and truck clean. Image says alot. I can't tell you how many times I get complimented on my outfit.

5- Respond to calls from customers and new clients ASAP. Many jobs I get are because I was the first guy to respond to their calls, get to their property, and give them a bid.

6- Buy some professional forms for doing bids, billing etc. www.nebs.com is where I get mine. Again, image.

7- Yes mamn, no mamn; Yes sir, no sir. Hi! :) how are you? :) Simple but effective.

8- Know when to say no. If someone is asking you to beat somebody elses price, ask to see the quote in writing. If they cant produce, say my price is in writing, and don't come down. I used to let people talk me down in price and then spend three unprofitible days complaining while doing the job. I'd rather be bidding something else than working for break even $$, or losing $$!

9- Be careful! Minimize damage/ downtime. Eye protection, hearing protection, watch out for kids, pets, windows, cars etc. Maintain your equipment instead of fixing it. Sharp blades cut better, lawns look better. Lock up your equipment at night. Keep it out of the weather.

10- Keep hanging around here. Everybody wants to see you succeed, except maybe somebody else in Kentucky Zone 6! :eek:

I know some of this stuff I mentioned is simple and seems like common sense, but I had to learn it all the hard way. It's so easy to forget about the LITTLE THINGS. But like Bush (Gavin Rossdale) say's it's the little things that kill. And the bible says in Song of Solomon 2:15 (Solomon, the wisest man to EVER live) "Catch for us the foxes, the little foxes that ruin the vineyards, our vineyards that are in bloom."


09-21-2002, 01:04 AM
Tell us where you are on the propsed answers?

09-21-2002, 01:19 AM
Reading this thread makes me think back to my first year in business for myself.

I landed a nice client who wanted tons of wwork done, and wanted to pay hourly. Whenshe asked me my rate, I had never thought about it like that before. I told her I wanted $35.00 and hour for me, my wife, and a laborer. She looked at me and asked, "Each?"

Well looking back now, i realize the right answer to that question is a resounding YES, but at the time, we all thought we were in the money big time. Ya, well not so much now as look back on it.

The thing is, at the time, with no ins, taxes, or big payment to make, I could afford those kinds of numbers.

Not so much now tho....

Tony Harrell
09-21-2002, 09:30 AM
One thing I've learned thanks to lawnsite, don't ever give an hourly rate. People don't understand why you can't work for $10 an hour like they do. I had a woman pester me about it and I told her I don't work by the hour, I work for me. I didn't get the job because she wanted to pay me $40 for something that took the last guy 4 hours to cut. I quoted her $150 each cut and figured I could do it in 2 hours. I win either way, see? If I lived in my truck I would have done it for the $40. I can't see sweating my @ss off for some tightwad when there's other work to do.

The Mowerdude
09-21-2002, 09:48 AM
Wow, it's amazing that this thread has gotten this far without Flex-Deck chiming in and pointing out that all your problems are due to not having a Flex-Deck. :D

Ax Man
09-21-2002, 07:21 PM
Yeah just keep mowing in circles till the lawn looks like its been bagged.
I think Iv'e seen that one by him 5 times in the last month.

09-21-2002, 09:24 PM
You have clients now, right?

Before you raise prices, evaluate where you are making your money. You can use CLIP or Excel or a calculator and an accounting pad. You need to know to the minute how long each job takes. Measure each lawn's area, and the amount of trimming and edging. You can factor in ditches, extra driving, lots of trees or beds, and other obstacles.

Time EACH thing you do as a separate job EVERY time you go there. Mowing takes X minutes, trimming and edging takes Y minutes, and blowing takes Z minutes. Do the same for EACH thing you do, and do it every time.

After a full season you will have enough data to determine how long it takes to mow X thousand sg ft of lawn, or edge so many feet of curb or driveway, or trim so many feet of hedges. You can take this info and determine how long each new job should take, as well as how long the old jobs should.

If you want to make $50/hr for work, take the amount of minutes you expect the job to take (or how long it does take for old jobs) and divide by 60, then multiply that by $50 and round up to the next $5. This way, your quotes are realistic, and if you aren't happy with an existing job, you know whether you're getting what you should for it.

All you need to do after that is keep crunching the #s periodically to make sure they are where they should be, and try to make them profitable. If they balk at your prices, fire all the clients who aren't profitable and replace them with ones who are.

IMO, if you do it any other way, you may as well use a dart board to price your work, and you can expect to lose money very often.

Shady Brook
09-21-2002, 11:10 PM

You have gotten some super advice here. Remember man your not alone. I think many of us started out hungry, and not real sure what the going rate was for that area. Speaking for myself I am still raising lawns every year that I have had for 4 years now. I have learned to know my customers, and which ones I can raise to where they should be in one shot, and also which ones will balk at a big increase, so I raise them more slowly.

I think taking on some new customers priced where they should be will help alot, and give you a cushion while you get some of your others in line.

Another thing I learned around year 3 I believe, is that I was not making near as much as I thought I was. In the begining making a couple hundred bucks a day sounded great, living high on the hog compared to making $10 an hour for the man. There comes a time when you can see that all those town permits add up, the extra insurance, the workmans comp, the repair bills, the equipment costs, the estimated taxes, and the list goes on and on. I think maybe you are at that point now where you see you need to make big dollars and all the time if you want to survive. I think what separates the ones that make it, and the ones that fail is learning from mistakes, taking good advice from experience people you trust, and fighting through the pain.

Don't worry yourself to death, just start making corrections that will help your bus., and you will see the rewards as time goes on. This change will not happen overnight.

Take care

Mowerdude..... man your killin me! :D

Vibe Ray
09-22-2002, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by The Mowerdude
Wow, it's amazing that this thread has gotten this far without Flex-Deck chiming in and pointing out that all your problems are due to not having a Flex-Deck. :D

Now that is too cruel of you to say that! hehehe

09-22-2002, 01:45 AM
The only thing you really need to solve all your problems and make tons of money is by an amazing FLEX-DECK. With one of those.......

Just thought I'd say it since he seems afraid to, lol

09-22-2002, 02:07 AM
Thanks -Mowerdude - Ax Man and Vibe ray - the Sad part of it is it may be true. A Flex-Deck will enhance any operation that wants to make a bigger profit

Thanks, Brad - Nice to see that you at least read posts-no pics here:

09-22-2002, 03:11 AM

The Mowerdude
09-22-2002, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by Flex-Deck
Thanks -Mowerdude - Ax Man and Vibe ray - the Sad part of it is it may be true. A Flex-Deck will enhance any operation that wants to make a bigger profit:

One thing is key....we have to maintain our sense of humor!:D

09-22-2002, 10:22 PM
LOL all you want - it's your money, and your operation.

Thanks, Bradhttp://36X

09-23-2002, 12:28 AM

09-23-2002, 10:33 PM
LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL - Ignorance is bliss - You can't miss what you have not had - Don't bash it if you have not tried it -

09-24-2002, 12:52 AM
I was unaware that this thread had been reduced to an adverisement for flex-deck.

09-24-2002, 12:54 AM
oops, I mean Deck....

Vibe Ray
09-24-2002, 03:01 AM
Uh-oh! Here come the pics....this is how it always starts! LawnAgent, you may as well give in now while you still have your pride and your dignity and purchase a Flex-Deck.....he WILL not let up!

As for YOU, Mr. Mow & Snow! You are thinking about it all wrong.....this thread has not been "reduced" to an advertisement for FLEX-DECK FLEX-DECK FLEX-DECK ......it has actually been "UPGRADED" to such!

Big wink*wink* to my main squeeze............MR. FLEXY!!!!!!

I'd like to personally thank Lawnsite for the courtesy plug on Flex-Deck's behalf!

09-24-2002, 07:04 PM
Ya your right. Send me a flex deck right away! I must have one!

09-25-2002, 12:14 AM
Vibe Ray - Lawnsite does not plug for anyone - we pay - not only for the sponsor forums, but also the banners-

Mow & Snow - Just send a check and your address and a Flex-Deck will be on the way - $1299 would do.

Thanks, Brad -

09-25-2002, 12:14 AM
Vibe Ray - Lawnsite does not plug for anyone - we pay - not only for the sponsor forums, but also the banners-

Mow & Snow - Just send a check and your address and a Flex-Deck will be on the way - $1299 would do.

Thanks, Brad -

09-25-2002, 12:21 AM
Been accused of plugging the Flex-Deck too much, so am out of here for a few days - see what happens - won"t bother anyone anymore

Thanks, Brad

Vibe Ray
09-25-2002, 12:29 AM
A qoute:
Mow&Snow: Ya your right. Send me a flex deck right away! I must have one!

Flex-Deck: Just send a check and your address and a Flex-Deck will be on the way - $1299 would do.

That's it! It's official! Verbal cotracts are legally binding ya know!

09-25-2002, 12:37 AM
Brad is a paying member of Lawnsite. He is trying to sell his product. Much like many of us try to sell our services. So UNTIL YOU PAY FOR FLEX DECKS LAWNSITE BILL I THINK YOU SHOULD SHUT YOUR DAMN HOLE. If he wants to plug his product that is his business. If you don't like it ignore it. But don't insult him or any other vender here! They pay the bills. The actions of some here toward Flex deck have been rather embarrassing lately.

09-25-2002, 12:53 AM

09-25-2002, 01:13 AM
For thread not much more to add since you haven't replied.

For Flex Deck don't understnders;

You know "why" he is on this thread? Come on, I want to here from you?

For those who don't like the "free" internet site you enjoy so much, back off!!! I don't see you "PAYING" any money to this site.

Brad don't stop posting or posting pictures because a few imbasiles. The man is proud of the product he designed from scratch, R&Des on his own money, brought to market on his own money, mows in his spare time for peanut doing charity work. Invented an attachment to "SPEED" things up, cut triming down.

09-25-2002, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by MARYLANDMOWER

Probably the same as your wonderful post.

09-25-2002, 02:39 AM
LGF and 65hoss:

I hear ya....for real! :D

09-25-2002, 08:52 PM
You guys need to relax! I was just joking geesh

09-25-2002, 08:56 PM
I think the flex deck looks pretty cool. So what if brad trys to sell it here, he is a paying sponser.

09-25-2002, 09:33 PM
This thread is "Tired of scraping by - Ready to make cash"

I posted, because I have a product that will do just that

Thanks, Brad - If you look back, there is a thread - "Double Blades?' If you look at my post it is about gators and dixie chopper blades - NOTHING about the Flex-Deck ---- If you are going to accuse me of anything, do not accuse me of changing the subject...... - I only comment about the Flex-Deck on WB threads, and those that are talking about becoming more efficient, which is what the Flex-Deck is all about.

Thanks, Again, and if I have insulted anyone - didn't mean to. If I do not have the right to mention my product or opinion, then tell me I have to live by different rules as to the others on this forum. I see plugs by other companies, and other individuals

There are a lot of good machines out there - PLEASE Visit the sponsor forums and also please post on them to let us know that you are on this forum for reasons other than just to whatever???

It is really hard to know if people really look at the sponsor forums other that a quik view - no comment - deal;

Thanks, Again, Brad - - - - No Pic - Ain't that special - "I did not think about the fact that all the pics I was posting would slow down your computers loading capabilities, I have all the pics or at least most of them on My Flex-Deck Sponsor forum, ----would appreciate your taking a look and commenting.

09-25-2002, 10:41 PM
Hey Robert --- a couple of thoughts here… first not all customers are willing to pay the same for mowing a similar yard. I’d suggest that you look for new customers and attempt to charge more than you are now. A good rule is the $1 per minute rule. I try to imagine how much time it would take me to cut, trim and blow. The minutes then become the dollars I ask the client for. I would have to say that my range is $25-$35, but of course I have some that go higher. You probably need to consider dropping the low-payers as you accumulate more of the high-payers.

Sometimes it’s kind of a mind game too, making it hard to imagine anyone paying “that much” to get their yard mowed. The only way to learn is to jump in and start asking for more than you do now.

09-26-2002, 12:05 AM
OK "Flex-Deck, actually went and looked at your link. Not bad, I especially like that Dixie is offering your product. Dixie is on my short list for a 60" or 72" for next year. I have a larger complex with hills, ditches and even a pond where this thing could come in handy.
Does anyone actually own one of these things? How well is it built? How can I see one of these attachments, at the Dixie dealer?
Anytime I can remove labor from an equation I don't think I can go wrong. Which does make your product relievant to this thread.
Lastly, just received a book today, 9/25/02, I found searching through this site to help me get a handle on pricing. "Labor Time Data Handbook" by Phillip Nilsson. Give me a week to give it a good read or two and I'll post my review of the info. Also got the pruning book, I'll review it too.

09-26-2002, 12:27 AM
mlc4160 problem is, most whom have gotten a Flex-Deck dont want to discuss because they feel they have an edge on their compatision, so they don't want others to know about it.

09-26-2002, 12:30 AM
Thanks for all the responses and e-mail. I feel like Ive been to " Mowing College" LOL I'll be watching for any more responses and will give advice myself when I can.

09-26-2002, 12:59 AM
Those sound like good books, have you done a search on Phil Nilsson here? There is lots of good reading about his ideas on here for free too.

09-26-2002, 09:31 AM
I only see one problem with the dollar a min rule of thumb. If you r using a 21" mower to mow an acre lawn, you will not get that done as fast as the guy with a 52" Z. Does this mean the lawn is worth more if cut slower?

09-27-2002, 08:47 PM
mow&Snow - I think Likestomow meant $1 per minute with a commercial machine involved.

I liken it to when I blow snow in the winter - an average driveway is $25. I happen to have a 4 foot snow blower on the front of a 455 JD tractor - 22 HP diesel and it takes about 5 minutes or less with a 6" snow - If a kid with a snow shovel shows up and it takes 2 hours, it is still a $25 job.

You just can not compare apples to oranges. It all depends upon the equipment you have - THE JOB is worth what THE JOB is worth. It is up the the person doing the Job as to how much and how big and how much investment he wants to make in equipment to do it faster, or slower.

Thanks, Brad

09-27-2002, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by Flex-Deck
mow&Snow - I think Likestomow meant $1 per minute with a commercial machine involved.

You just can not compare apples to oranges. It all depends upon the equipment you have - THE JOB is worth what THE JOB is worth. It is up the the person doing the Job as to how much and how big and how much investment he wants to make in equipment to do it faster, or slower.

Thanks, Brad

I agree completely. My point was that bidding a job by a buck a min is impossible for someone that doesn't have the commercial equipment like some of us have. I have read alot of posts suggesting that many members here are just starting out or just haven't made the investment yet. For those folks, they will need to price differently.


09-27-2002, 09:26 PM
Cool - You know that the kid that shovels a drive has

1. a snow shovel that costs $10
2. No grease zerks - no maintainance - no insurance for theft etc.
3. The guy with the big blower has equip worth $12,000 with all of the above - insurance, upkeep - repairs - on and on and on - some people just have to go buy another $10 shovel

09-28-2002, 01:37 AM
LOL Hey those shovels add up u know.....

11-05-2002, 12:10 AM
great responses!:D

08-11-2003, 02:00 PM
back to the top for the benefit of the new guy! :)

SUPERIOR Lawn Design
08-11-2003, 11:29 PM
Great site guys! I am definitely learning here... Been in the business for two years now, ever since my dealership went under (I was parts manager for a Honda/Suzuki car dealer) and still have a lot to learn. So carry on!

08-13-2003, 01:31 AM
Self-employment isn't for everybody. Some people have a knack for knowing what they need to do to make it work. I believe that you can't teach every nuance of this or any business over the internet. Some of it one just has to understand intrinsically, or they need to go to work for someone who does and take the time to learn it from the ground up.

Some people can jump right into it and "get it". Others can't and either are better suited to be employees or need to spend time as employees and work their way up to positions from which they can go on to start their own businesses.

08-13-2003, 01:34 AM
What brucec32 said.

Some folks are self-starters and 'get it'....and others are not, and don't.