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George777
09-20-2002, 11:50 PM
Iím interested in some opinions on a winterizer application for C-4 turf. In October I spray Pre-M. I would like to know if I would receive any benefits of mixing Potassium in with the Pre-M?

In October here in the South the turf is on the decline in growth, but will not go dormant until around mid November. At this time I have increased the mowing ht to allow for photosynthesis. If I mix in the Potassium will the turf use it now?, or will it store some of it until spring?

From what I understand food is stored in the fall and then is used as an energy source in the spring the help with recovery.

tremor
09-21-2002, 06:30 PM
George,

The Pre-M is for winter anuals or do you get some early spring activity too? I'd like to see more people try this approach for Poa Anua & Chickweed, but not many takers around here.

The potash should do you a world of good especially if you encounter sandier loams or run into K diffiencies.

Around here I try to program for between .5 & 1 lb of K. The budget is the most compromising factor I encpounter with the local guys. But soil tests should be the ultimate guide. We rarely encounter actual K shortages, but bringing up soluble K always aids in winter hardiness & helps improve spring root density.

Applied 3 weeks before dormancy, you'll get the benefit this fall. But a lot will still be around come spring. K doesn't leach anywhere near as bad as free urea. And we know how turf responds to late N.

What source of K do you plan to use?

We sell 2 powdered solubles. Sprayable Sulfate of Potash & Muriate. A 50/50 blend of the 2 is nice. Especially with some Chelated Iron & .3-.5 lbs of N from urea. SWEET!

You might also want to check this link if you prefer true liquid solutions to powders. I have found that Teesenderlo Kerley's liquids are as good as liquid plant nutrition gets. Their N-Sure 28-0-0 is the best slow N solution there is. 72% of all the N is ASRN (by the tougher test).

The 0-0-25 17%S Potassium Thiosulfate is a great low salt K source.

We use this material in our better bulk liquid blends. We also sell it in bulk, 30 gal. drums, & 2x2.5 gl cases. Nice stuff.

http://www.tkinet.com/aboutus/aboutus_products_to_kts.html

You may also have a bulk blender near by that can get and/or blend this for you.

Steve

George777
09-22-2002, 12:19 AM
tremor, I do 3 app's of pre-m oct,Feb,apr. I have seen great control on wild onion and Poa Anua. I also don't see any crab's until late in the season,a nd then kick it back with msma. I have yet to try drive but plan on it next season.

I'm not sure yet what I'm going to use. I've got to go to lesco in the next few weeks to resupply. I could also see a benifit in spring,and prior to a drought.


Hey tremor, what what you recommend to add soil tilth to a clay soil? most all turf grass soil here in bama is nasty. I can hardly get a probe in the ground. I thought about top dressing and understand the benifit, however I just don't have the time to do this. Core aeration has been a service we have done for the compaction. I was just wondering what else may be used?

tremor
09-22-2002, 02:03 AM
It's wicked labor & material intensive, but I've seen great results on clay soils by dragging Turface into the aeration holes. Rates are crazy high though. 1 lb/sq ft is good. (If not for this approach, I wouldn't have anuals in my own front yard).

Peatmoss is popular here when complete reno's take place. But earthworms & microbes eat it up in 2 or 3 seasons. Then your right back where you started. Turface lasts for many years in the ground. If I were you, I'd try a test plot somewhere & see how it goes. Turface WON'T make conditions worse for you, that's for sure.

6 Month wetting agents like LESCO-FLOW are cool for moisture management. Clay won't yield the same effects as sand, but cool none the less. Forget the monthly wetting agents. They suck.

Gypsum is also good at relieving clay colloids of their compressed state. So is lime if the Ph is too low (like we see here).

I can't say as I have any "bama" experience though.

What are you growing? Bermuda? God I wish we could grow that stuff up here!

Steve

George777
09-22-2002, 10:27 AM
Steve, the most common turf here is Bermuda tif 419, Zoysia, st. Aug, and centipede.
Since gypsum contains calcium it should improve soil structure? I understand that the soil texture is a permanent characteristic, but is it possible to improve the soil structure?

the big problem in my area is most homes are built and no prep work is done prior to turf being installed. They slap the turf down over the clay. I'm talking about alabama red clay. this stuff is like concrete.

Most homeowners who do have irrigation will overdose the turf with water, ya know if a little is good then everyday is better. I can tell those who overwater by the amount of nutsedge they got (manage exellent).

Since most have not had any prep work prior to turf establishment I'm forced to do what ever I can to improve the situation. It's like the turf is sitting on the bedrock.