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JDSKIDSTEER
03-18-2011, 04:43 AM
Here is a couple of machines I delivered yesterday.

P.Services
03-18-2011, 05:41 AM
They look good, I think deere really hit the nail on the head with these machines. The main thing that deere and all other manufactures needs to work on is improving the usable lifespan of these machines. A 80k CTL needs to run 6-8 thousand hours with out a major failure in my opinion if not longer. Look at the massive improvements deere has just started making to their dozer under carriages, they need to implement them immediately to the ctl UC. Thicker steel, better bearings,guards to prevent premature failure. I have noticed a lot of people and a lot of salesman starting to shy away from CTL's because you just can't get your money out of them in 2,000 hours. After 2,000hours its a crap shoot if you will be faced with a enormous repair invoice today or not. Deere has made a power full heart for the machine but the machine wrapped around it needs to be able to hold up to that power.
Adapt or die.
Posted via Mobile Device

Junior M
03-18-2011, 06:35 AM
I seen two 333 D's working along the interstate using fecon style mowers.. What do yall do to your machines to set them up for mulching?

Bleed Green
03-18-2011, 09:55 AM
JDSKID been wondering is the SS smackdown over?

Jelinek61
03-18-2011, 04:39 PM
It does suck they cost so much and only last a few thousand hours. The only thing is if they beefed up the components it would cost that much more to purchase so the extended hours you would get would be essentially erased when you have to pay more up front.

P.Services
03-18-2011, 06:05 PM
Why can a 150k wheel loader last 22,000 thousand hours with no repairs? Why can a excavator go 15k with little to no repairs. But a CTL is seen as worn out junk at 2,000 hours?
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wanabe
03-18-2011, 06:20 PM
I would like to see what the manufactures make on selling a CTL. I bet the profit is huge, there is nothing to them.

stuvecorp
03-18-2011, 06:42 PM
They look good, I think deere really hit the nail on the head with these machines. The main thing that deere and all other manufactures needs to work on is improving the usable lifespan of these machines. A 80k CTL needs to run 6-8 thousand hours with out a major failure in my opinion if not longer. Look at the massive improvements deere has just started making to their dozer under carriages, they need to implement them immediately to the ctl UC. Thicker steel, better bearings,guards to prevent premature failure. I have noticed a lot of people and a lot of salesman starting to shy away from CTL's because you just can't get your money out of them in 2,000 hours. After 2,000hours its a crap shoot if you will be faced with a enormous repair invoice today or not. Deere has made a power full heart for the machine but the machine wrapped around it needs to be able to hold up to that power.
Adapt or die.
Posted via Mobile Device

I don't get your argument, why would anyone spend 80 large for a CTL? Or really over 50? It doesn't pencil out when we are working for $50-80 per hour for the most part and I don't care what the brand is.


Personally the Deere's are not appealing to me and am not excited about their dealers. I also have not ran one(lately...) so maybe the D's are not as bad as the previous ones?

Digdeep
03-18-2011, 06:49 PM
I would like to see what the manufactures make on selling a CTL. I bet the profit is huge, there is nothing to them.

There is even less to a skid steer and OEMs make small margins on them, especially once you factor in the cost of the subsidies they pay for the 0-36 month financing we get. I can't imagine CTL margins being much bigger.

bighornjd
03-18-2011, 09:50 PM
I don't get your argument, why would anyone spend 80 large for a CTL? Or really over 50? It doesn't pencil out when we are working for $50-80 per hour for the most part and I don't care what the brand is.


Personally the Deere's are not appealing to me and am not excited about their dealers. I also have not ran one(lately...) so maybe the D's are not as bad as the previous ones?

The 50k or even 80k cost of the machine isn't the problem. The $50-$80 per hour IS. Look at what percentage of increase in the cost of a machine is in the past 10 or 15 years. Think about how much more fuel prices are compared to then, How much more it costs to repair, maintain, and even transport a machine. Now compare today's average hourly rates to back then. Doesn't quite add up does it? Also consider the increased efficiency of newer equipment. You can't bill as many hours to do a job as you would have then. Expenses are increasing exponentially faster than the profits are. Seems to be true in almost any trade. Employee wages are not keeping up with the inflation in the cost of living. I think we have only begun to feel the results of the breaking point unfortunately.

wanabe
03-18-2011, 10:26 PM
There is even less to a skid steer and OEMs make small margins on them, especially once you factor in the cost of the subsidies they pay for the 0-36 month financing we get. I can't imagine CTL margins being much bigger.


OK, you can buy a large frame wheel machine for 40 ish, and then take the same machine, put tracks on it and call it a CTL for 80ish. Now you tell me that it takes 40k to put 2 track frames and tracks on? No way, they are just charging what the market will pay.

P.Services
03-18-2011, 10:32 PM
Every dealer will tell you they hardly make a profit on these machines. Can't come off the price 500 bucks or they will be loosing money. Let me tell you something, my locale dealer wants 78,000 for a loaded out 333D and I spoke with a dealer across the country that has a loaded 333D and he will sell it for 54k. Now I know he isn't giving it away just to be nice so you do the math. I paid 48,000 for my 50d but the local dealer wanted 71,000 and "not a dime less because that's bottom of the barrel price" the next time a dealer tells you they work on 2% profit margins ask them what all salesman have in common?









(Answer- they are ALL liars)
Posted via Mobile Device

DirtMerchant
03-18-2011, 11:11 PM
Why can a 150k wheel loader last 22,000 thousand hours with no repairs? Why can a excavator go 15k with little to no repairs. But a CTL is seen as worn out junk at 2,000 hours?
Posted via Mobile Device

Mechanical Physics.

Digdeep
03-18-2011, 11:15 PM
OK, you can buy a large frame wheel machine for 40 ish, and then take the same machine, put tracks on it and call it a CTL for 80ish. Now you tell me that it takes 40k to put 2 track frames and tracks on? No way, they are just charging what the market will pay.

I wasn't talking about dealer margins, but the actual OEM margins. Everybody knows that 80ish is a pipe dream for a dealer. When I was a salesman, the avg. gross margin on skids was 8-12% depending on model. CTLS were around 15%. It's a down market, much more crowded, etc. I know dealers taking 7-8% on all SSL sizes and 10% on CTLS. These are gross margins. Consider that it costs an OEM about 11-14% of the machine cost to subsidize (buy down) the finance rate for a 0 for 36 month term, 6-8% to subsidize the dealer floor plan and you can see the margins slide away.

I'm not defending OEMs or dealers, but SSLs, CTLs and mini's are not their money makers. Everything is based off of volume and depends on economy of scale.

stuvecorp
03-18-2011, 11:51 PM
The 50k or even 80k cost of the machine isn't the problem. The $50-$80 per hour IS. Look at what percentage of increase in the cost of a machine is in the past 10 or 15 years. Think about how much more fuel prices are compared to then, How much more it costs to repair, maintain, and even transport a machine. Now compare today's average hourly rates to back then. Doesn't quite add up does it? Also consider the increased efficiency of newer equipment. You can't bill as many hours to do a job as you would have then. Expenses are increasing exponentially faster than the profits are. Seems to be true in almost any trade. Employee wages are not keeping up with the inflation in the cost of living. I think we have only begun to feel the results of the breaking point unfortunately.

To me even the $50 large for a skid just doesn't pencil out and spending more makes no sense. Honestly a regular dozer(or even a track loader) is probably a better value. I can't see the market paying more than the $50-80 that it is now. I try to bid and then use my efficiency and PowerTan awesomeness to make better money but do know it works against me having a skid setup that can do so much now many times.

The funny thing(or not...) is I was working for the same money back in the late 90's/early 2000's with a skid that cost me $20,300 brand new but have double in my skid setup now. But I probably can do twice as much with more power and on tracks but who is winning? We have to be getting to the point where this just doesn't make sense to do unfortunately but then I think of the guys that keep buying quad dumps so we have a ways to go...:hammerhead:

DeereMan85
03-19-2011, 08:44 AM
the next time a dealer tells you they work on 2% profit margins ask them what all salesman have in common?









(Answer- they are ALL liars)
Posted via Mobile Device

Yes, it's true. It's amazing that liars flock to the sales profession, while dishonesty is a foreign concept to most contractors. :rolleyes:

You wouldn't believe how much customers lie to try to get a better deal. I had a customer trying to buy a small tractor a few weeks ago. He told me I was $500 higher than the neighboring dealer and had to match their price to get the deal. I told him my price was my price and if they wanted to cut that kind of deal he better take it. "Call them and ask if you don't believe me, they'll tell you their price," he said. So I did. Turns out I was actually $850 cheaper. He called me back a few days later and took the tractor from me "because he thought it was worth $500 to stay local." Happens all the time.

Digdeep
03-19-2011, 09:43 AM
QUOTE=DeereMan85;3945462]Yes, it's true. It's amazing that liars flock to the sales profession, while dishonesty is a foreign concept to most contractors. :rolleyes:

You wouldn't believe how much customers lie to try to get a better deal. I had a customer trying to buy a small tractor a few weeks ago. He told me I was $500 higher than the neighboring dealer and had to match their price to get the deal. I told him my price was my price and if they wanted to cut that kind of deal he better take it. "Call them and ask if you don't believe me, they'll tell you their price," he said. So I did. Turns out I was actually $850 cheaper. He called me back a few days later and took the tractor from me "because he thought it was worth $500 to stay local." Happens all the time.[/QUOTE]

The truth is that most dealerships, salesmen and customers all know that each of them must get a fair deal to stay in business. Those that exploit the situation just for their benefit usually don't stay in business very long due to lost sales or lack of repeat business.

On the subject of machine prices...I think we're all going to be shocked at them when Tier IV goes into effect. Especially on machines over 75hp. I've been told not to be shocked to see increases of around $4-6k on large skids and CTLs due to the increased cost of engines and the exhaust systems. Should be interesting starting in 2012.
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Jelinek61
03-19-2011, 04:33 PM
I would imagine the profit dealers make on the small equipment is pretty small because it always seems that nobody wants to talk to you at the dealership unless your buying a couple hundred thousand dollar machine. Everybody is in business to make money but it does seem at times that prices are too high for what you are getting. I talked to a salesman for ASV/Terex at a trade show in January and he said the new Terex PT100G forestry machine that they had at the show was around $82K with no attachments. The mulcher was another $14K. You have to do a lot of mulching to make up for $96K plus your time, fuel, and travel. The thing is, people need the equipment to get the job done so the dealers have ya.

ksss
03-19-2011, 05:11 PM
I totally agree that prices here on some services are at late 90s prices or less. I had a dumbasss call me yesterday wanting me to rock rake his 6000 square foot yard for $200 cause thats what he can rent a skidsteer and Rock rake for. O and he was about 30 miles from me. I told him that I was not interested and if he can do it for that himself he should get it done. He hung up on me. :waving:


The cost of the equipment verse the ability to charge for it is a big problem. Farmers see this all the time. All you can do is buy the most productive machine you can, cause you have to get it done faster to make money. It also drives home the fact that you need to be a GREAT operator and the guys you hire need to be GREAT as well. You cant afford to have half asssed operators, ask me how I know.:hammerhead:

As far as the new Tier level coming, that is really the big reason I am considering updating. I don't need to, everything is running well but I don't want to find myself having to replace machines and pay 4K more for BS that does nothing for my productivity and adds to my upkeep costs. However all that has to be tempered with work levels which are not looking really great at the moment out here.

AWJ Services
03-19-2011, 06:45 PM
Working compact equipment by the hour is just not an ideal way to turn a profit. The industry has allowed Blanket hourly rate charges for equipment which does not differentiate the efficiency of the equipment. We as contractors have allowed it as well. If anyone asks what I charge an hour I imediatly reply that I do not work by the hour. Hourly equipment billing just does not work for me.

JDSKIDSTEER
03-19-2011, 08:49 PM
I seen two 333 D's working along the interstate using fecon style mowers.. What do yall do to your machines to set them up for mulching?

The new cooling sytem with reversing fan option and guard packages. We just sold 15 to Asplundh tree service.

JDSKIDSTEER
03-19-2011, 08:52 PM
JDSKID been wondering is the SS smackdown over?

I do not know. I have not had time to check that site out. Been working my butt off. Closed on 9 machines this week. I need help.

JDSKIDSTEER
03-19-2011, 09:01 PM
They look good, I think deere really hit the nail on the head with these machines. The main thing that deere and all other manufactures needs to work on is improving the usable lifespan of these machines. A 80k CTL needs to run 6-8 thousand hours with out a major failure in my opinion if not longer. Look at the massive improvements deere has just started making to their dozer under carriages, they need to implement them immediately to the ctl UC. Thicker steel, better bearings,guards to prevent premature failure. I have noticed a lot of people and a lot of salesman starting to shy away from CTL's because you just can't get your money out of them in 2,000 hours. After 2,000hours its a crap shoot if you will be faced with a enormous repair invoice today or not. Deere has made a power full heart for the machine but the machine wrapped around it needs to be able to hold up to that power.
Adapt or die.
Posted via Mobile DeviceThey have changed the undercarriage up a couple months ago and you will like this one. Beefed up the drive motors and made them repairable instead of throw away. That has been every manufacturers short coming. So far we have not seen many issues. We have one guy that has put 900 hours in 6 months and no issues. On the other side, if everyone would quit cutting each others prices they could make enough money to maintain them. 90 percent of my customer do not even clean their undercarriages. The customer does have some responsibility. The CT332 you purchased used was used as a 855 loader. I know you maintain your equipment , but beware of used equipment sold 5 states away. I was glad to see both of those units leave Alabama.

JDSKIDSTEER
03-19-2011, 09:08 PM
I would like to see what the manufactures make on selling a CTL. I bet the profit is huge, there is nothing to them.

They might be, but the dealers are not. A man asked me for may best price a couple days ago and then drove 70 miles with a traier and tried to get me down 2k more. Then said he could not believe I would let him walk. I told him if I came down any more I would have told him a lie when I said i gave him my best price two days earlier and to have a nice day. An hour later the papers were sighned and he was loaded up and gone. I don't do this for my health. I do it to feed my family is what I told him.

JDSKIDSTEER
03-19-2011, 09:10 PM
I don't get your argument, why would anyone spend 80 large for a CTL? Or really over 50? It doesn't pencil out when we are working for $50-80 per hour for the most part and I don't care what the brand is.


Personally the Deere's are not appealing to me and am not excited about their dealers. I also have not ran one(lately...) so maybe the D's are not as bad as the previous ones?

The D's are awesome compared to the 300 series. Please don't lump all dealers in one catagory. Here the Case has a dealer issue where apparently that is not the case where you are.

JDSKIDSTEER
03-19-2011, 09:20 PM
Every dealer will tell you they hardly make a profit on these machines. Can't come off the price 500 bucks or they will be loosing money. Let me tell you something, my locale dealer wants 78,000 for a loaded out 333D and I spoke with a dealer across the country that has a loaded 333D and he will sell it for 54k. Now I know he isn't giving it away just to be nice so you do the math. I paid 48,000 for my 50d but the local dealer wanted 71,000 and "not a dime less because that's bottom of the barrel price" the next time a dealer tells you they work on 2% profit margins ask them what all salesman have in common?








(Answer- they are ALL liars)
Posted via Mobile Device

That is B.S. Cost on a loaded 333D is way more than way more than 54K. I am selling loaded stanard flow for 66K. High Flow 69k. Add 7K for forestry guards. Funny everyone that pays yall 80 bucks an hour thinks they are getting screwed.

JDSKIDSTEER
03-19-2011, 09:22 PM
The 50k or even 80k cost of the machine isn't the problem. The $50-$80 per hour IS. Look at what percentage of increase in the cost of a machine is in the past 10 or 15 years. Think about how much more fuel prices are compared to then, How much more it costs to repair, maintain, and even transport a machine. Now compare today's average hourly rates to back then. Doesn't quite add up does it? Also consider the increased efficiency of newer equipment. You can't bill as many hours to do a job as you would have then. Expenses are increasing exponentially faster than the profits are. Seems to be true in almost any trade. Employee wages are not keeping up with the inflation in the cost of living. I think we have only begun to feel the results of the breaking point unfortunately.

I agree with you. Everyone is shooting themselves in the foot by not charging enough for their sevices. You all are in a cut throat market.

JDSKIDSTEER
03-19-2011, 09:26 PM
I wasn't talking about dealer margins, but the actual OEM margins. Everybody knows that 80ish is a pipe dream for a dealer. When I was a salesman, the avg. gross margin on skids was 8-12% depending on model. CTLS were around 15%. It's a down market, much more crowded, etc. I know dealers taking 7-8% on all SSL sizes and 10% on CTLS. These are gross margins. Consider that it costs an OEM about 11-14% of the machine cost to subsidize (buy down) the finance rate for a 0 for 36 month term, 6-8% to subsidize the dealer floor plan and you can see the margins slide away.

I'm not defending OEMs or dealers, but SSLs, CTLs and mini's are not their money makers. Everything is based off of volume and depends on economy of scale.You are pretty close except margins on CTL's are about like skid steers. That is not a lot of profit when that is all you can sell. It takes 40 to 60 new and used loader sales a year to feed a family.

JDSKIDSTEER
03-19-2011, 09:27 PM
I seen two 333 D's working along the interstate using fecon style mowers.. What do yall do to your machines to set them up for mulching?

Look real close. This 333D has some of the guards on it. He does railroad work.

JDSKIDSTEER
03-19-2011, 09:35 PM
Yes, it's true. It's amazing that liars flock to the sales profession, while dishonesty is a foreign concept to most contractors. :rolleyes:

You wouldn't believe how much customers lie to try to get a better deal. I had a customer trying to buy a small tractor a few weeks ago. He told me I was $500 higher than the neighboring dealer and had to match their price to get the deal. I told him my price was my price and if they wanted to cut that kind of deal he better take it. "Call them and ask if you don't believe me, they'll tell you their price," he said. So I did. Turns out I was actually $850 cheaper. He called me back a few days later and took the tractor from me "because he thought it was worth $500 to stay local." Happens all the time.

I agree. i am not going to be bullied into not making any money anymore. I have built up a good business and have good customers that like the service they get after the sale. When they jump to another brand they come back running. I work my butt off taking care of my customers after the sale and it pays off. I have found out in the past if they do not let you make anything up front you will never make anything off them. And they will lie about the price down the road.

JDSKIDSTEER
03-19-2011, 09:53 PM
Here is a few of those mulhing machines Jr.

Digdeep
03-19-2011, 11:49 PM
You are pretty close except margins on CTL's are about like skid steers. That is not a lot of profit when that is all you can sell. It takes 40 to 60 new and used loader sales a year to feed a family.

I added a little fudge factor since prices vary by geography and local market expectations. We sell way more skids and CTLs up here in the upper Midwest than you do in the South. About 20% of the world's SSLs used to be sold in just 5 states- MN, IA, WI, OH and MI.
Posted via Mobile Device

coopers
03-20-2011, 02:21 AM
JD, are those half painted excavators in the background? What's with the small tires on that loader in the background as well?

P.Services
03-20-2011, 03:51 AM
I would be curious to hear how many hours those mulching machines last before they start to see problems. That has to be one of the hardest environments to put a machine into. If they could get 5-6 thousand out of them before pumps started to go and engines needed rebuilds I think they got their money out of em. Have you ran a old style control 332 next to a 333? I felt like the old style had more power to lift push and everything. I felt like you could push the machine to the edge until it stalled out or tipped over. With the 333 it seemed like the computer said no before the machine did. I would love to run them side by side to really see.
Posted via Mobile Device

JDSKIDSTEER
03-20-2011, 06:38 AM
[QUOTE=coopers;3946626]JD, are those half painted excavators in the background? What's with the small tires on that loader in the background as well?[/QUOT

Not sure about the other machines. This was the plant that puts together guard packages and militarty guarding and other specialty attachments.

JDSKIDSTEER
03-20-2011, 06:45 AM
I would be curious to hear how many hours those mulching machines last before they start to see problems. That has to be one of the hardest environments to put a machine into. If they could get 5-6 thousand out of them before pumps started to go and engines needed rebuilds I think they got their money out of em. Have you ran a old style control 332 next to a 333? I felt like the old style had more power to lift push and everything. I felt like you could push the machine to the edge until it stalled out or tipped over. With the 333 it seemed like the computer said no before the machine did. I would love to run them side by side to really see.
Posted via Mobile Device

I have not ran side by side, Personal I hope it will over ride before being pushed to its limet because most who purchased them where trying to do the work of a 150k machine with a 55k machine. I have heard no complaints so far. And remember the machine you had, had a lot of problems which may have been to abuse from the previouse owners abuse. I preach about over use to first time buyers now. I sold one to a guy who never greased his 655. He came in with a broke pin that was gualded and the grease port had dry grease in it on his 333D. I read him the riot act about pins had to be greased. He never asked me to warranty a pin again.

Bleed Green
03-20-2011, 02:39 PM
I have not ran side by side, Personal I hope it will over ride before being pushed to its limet because most who purchased them where trying to do the work of a 150k machine with a 55k machine. I have heard no complaints so far. And remember the machine you had, had a lot of problems which may have been to abuse from the previouse owners abuse. I preach about over use to first time buyers now. I sold one to a guy who never greased his 655. He came in with a broke pin that was gualded and the grease port had dry grease in it on his 333D. I read him the riot act about pins had to be greased. He never asked me to warranty a pin again.

So I take it that you got your point across to the guy and he started taking care of his machines after you gave him the what for.

JDSKIDSTEER
03-20-2011, 03:53 PM
[QUOTE=Bleed Green;3947263]So I take it that you got your point across to the guy and he started taking care of his machines after you gave him the what for.[/

I think I saw him buying pins last weekfor his 4&1, but he dId not ask us to warranty them. To lazy to pump a grease gun. Nice guy though.

bengaginc
03-20-2011, 04:01 PM
im a newbie what is a ctl?

JDSKIDSTEER
03-20-2011, 04:11 PM
im a newbie what is a ctl?

Compact Tracl Loader. Scroll to the top. Oh, Welcome to the lawn Site Family. It is a wealth of information and a place to vent...LOL

Bleed Green
03-20-2011, 04:12 PM
im a newbie what is a ctl?

Compact track loader. Kinda like a skidsteer with tracks instead of wheels.
Posted via Mobile Device

Bleed Green
03-20-2011, 05:29 PM
Compact Tracl Loader. Scroll to the top. Oh, Welcome to the lawn Site Family. It is a wealth of information and a place to vent...LOL

The venting isn't needing quite as much anymore since gravel rat is gone though. LOL
Posted via Mobile Device

JDSKIDSTEER
03-21-2011, 08:18 PM
The venting isn't needing quite as much anymore since gravel rat is gone though. LOL
Posted via Mobile Device

I have not been on a lot. Where did that Whiner go?

bobcat_ron
03-21-2011, 08:25 PM
I have not been on a lot. Where did that Whiner go?

He married an Asian wh*re who knows rub-n-tug techniques and moved into her parent's basement.

Bleed Green
03-21-2011, 11:50 PM
He married an Asian wh*re who knows rub-n-tug techniques and moved into her parent's basement.

hahaha dare I say I kind of miss his belly-aching at times just because it provided a good laugh.

AWJ Services
03-22-2011, 07:29 AM
hahaha dare I say I kind of miss his belly-aching at times just because it provided a good laugh.

No you dare not.:)

JDSKIDSTEER
03-23-2011, 09:08 PM
Here I am delivering one in Flat Rock Alabama today.

JDSKIDSTEER
03-24-2011, 09:36 PM
Here is a couple of machines I delivered yesterday.

I am not a fan of the dozier blade on skids and ctl's, but the guy who bought this one on the 333D builds and maintains private railways called today. I thought, what is wrong....He said there is something wrong with the computer system....I said really...He said yes it thinks it is a 750 dozier. He said with the creep systen set at 30% and boom and bucket set in performance mode that the dozier blade worked way beyond his expectations. :weightlifter: Another happy customer. I think I will restock another 96" blade now.

Justin
03-25-2011, 12:58 AM
Here is a few of those mulhing machines Jr.
Looks like G & R's place. I would like to go there some day!

Construct'O
03-25-2011, 08:32 AM
I am not a fan of the dozier blade on skids and ctl's, but the guy who bought this one on the 333D builds and maintains private railways called today. I thought, what is wrong....He said there is something wrong with the computer system....I said really...He said yes it thinks it is a 750 dozier. He said with the creep systen set at 30% and boom and bucket set in performance mode that the dozier blade worked way beyond his expectations. :weightlifter: Another happy customer. I think I will restock another 96" blade now.

You have great posts,but your customer hasn't run many dozers if he thinks he has a 750 Deere dozer in a 333D CTL and six way dozer blade:hammerhead:.CTL six-way blades are great for loose dirt ,but when it comes to real dozing.I'm sure it was more a figure of speach statement!But.....

Give me at least a 750 Deere dozers(Cat D6N in my case) weighing in about 36 to 39K lbs and with 2 1/2 steel tall groser then you will get something done:weightlifter:.

Yes i have CTL(it's a Deere also) and six-way blade works great for what i want it to do and that is backfill trenches all day long which it does and has around 1800 hours doing it and several miles of backfilling!

Just think CTL are over rated,but i'm just a dozerman like someone us on here,and excavator are putting us dozermen out of business too:walking:.:usflag:

1idejim
03-25-2011, 02:01 PM
I totally agree that prices here on some services are at late 90s prices or less. I had a dumbasss call me yesterday wanting me to rock rake his 6000 square foot yard for $200 cause thats what he can rent a skidsteer and Rock rake for. O and he was about 30 miles from me. I told him that I was not interested and if he can do it for that himself he should get it done. He hung up on me. :waving:


.

does anyone see the rental industry supporting this manner of thinking? a few years back i was one of the few contractors around my area with a bobcat 320 size machine (it was purchased for very tight, side yard jobs) and it stayed plenty busy, now that the rental yard has moved to our town and you don't have to travel 100 miles round trip it sits more. anybody can run a piece of equipment if the want to. how well they run it is another discussion.

between rental yards and home depot (and their rental equipment) the public is being convinced that a weekend warrior can do as good a job as a professional, at less cost. the internet allows ho's to view forums such as LS and pick up valuable information that can be used against us.

they can call the rental yard and get cost on a piece of equipment, pay the same price we do and then use that information to try beating the job cost down. i believe in an informed public, what i don't believe in is an informed public trying to build a silk purse out of a sows ear at our expense.

stuvecorp
03-25-2011, 07:12 PM
does anyone see the rental industry supporting this manner of thinking? a few years back i was one of the few contractors around my area with a bobcat 320 size machine (it was purchased for very tight, side yard jobs) and it stayed plenty busy, now that the rental yard has moved to our town and you don't have to travel 100 miles round trip it sits more. anybody can run a piece of equipment if the want to. how well they run it is another discussion.

between rental yards and home depot (and their rental equipment) the public is being convinced that a weekend warrior can do as good a job as a professional, at less cost. the internet allows ho's to view forums such as LS and pick up valuable information that can be used against us.

they can call the rental yard and get cost on a piece of equipment, pay the same price we do and then use that information to try beating the job cost down. i believe in an informed public, what i don't believe in is an informed public trying to build a silk purse out of a sows ear at our expense.

I agree the rental access now hurts as homeowners and other contractors that would have subbed the work do it themselves. Now the work may be done but it is not to the level that would be called 'acceptable' before but people don't really seem to care.

JDSKIDSTEER
03-25-2011, 07:21 PM
You have great posts,but your customer hasn't run many dozers if he thinks he has a 750 Deere dozer in a 333D CTL and six way dozer blade:hammerhead:.CTL six-way blades are great for loose dirt ,but when it comes to real dozing.I'm sure it was more a figure of speach statement!But.....

Give me at least a 750 Deere dozers(Cat D6N in my case) weighing in about 36 to 39K lbs and with 2 1/2 steel tall groser then you will get something done:weightlifter:.

Yes i have CTL(it's a Deere also) and six-way blade works great for what i want it to do and that is backfill trenches all day long which it does and has around 1800 hours doing it and several miles of backfilling!

Just think CTL are over rated,but i'm just a dozerman like someone us on here,and excavator are putting us dozermen out of business too:walking:.:usflag:

I think he was just impressed it did as well as it did. He has ran one on his CT332, but what impressed him was the creep and boom rate features. It allowed him to control it so much better and had more of a dozer feel to it. He has owned a 750 so he knows. He was just impressed how he could control it so much better and did what he wanted. I am not a dozer operator and I could not run one no matter what. I have never had anyone brag on Skids and CTL's with a dozer blade before. He said he actual cut grade with it.He builds and maintains privave railways. He is not clearing land and pushing trees.

JDSKIDSTEER
03-25-2011, 07:35 PM
He also purchased an 85D from the industrial dealer and put a brush cutter on it. He takes the compact track loader and carries down the tracks and sets it off with a crane to clean up the right of way with a dozer and a brush cutter. He takes the 85D and leaves it on the train and cuts over hanging over the sides. Pretty neat operation.

stuvecorp
03-25-2011, 07:54 PM
You have great posts,but your customer hasn't run many dozers if he thinks he has a 750 Deere dozer in a 333D CTL and six way dozer blade:hammerhead:.CTL six-way blades are great for loose dirt ,but when it comes to real dozing.I'm sure it was more a figure of speach statement!But.....

Give me at least a 750 Deere dozers(Cat D6N in my case) weighing in about 36 to 39K lbs and with 2 1/2 steel tall groser then you will get something done:weightlifter:.

Yes i have CTL(it's a Deere also) and six-way blade works great for what i want it to do and that is backfill trenches all day long which it does and has around 1800 hours doing it and several miles of backfilling!

Just think CTL are over rated,but i'm just a dozerman like someone us on here,and excavator are putting us dozermen out of business too:walking:.:usflag:


You know I've been thinking about getting something like a D6D LGP, there isn't many bigger dozers around and there is so many skid/CTL's now. Try something different?

ksss
03-25-2011, 09:08 PM
does anyone see the rental industry supporting this manner of thinking? a few years back i was one of the few contractors around my area with a bobcat 320 size machine (it was purchased for very tight, side yard jobs) and it stayed plenty busy, now that the rental yard has moved to our town and you don't have to travel 100 miles round trip it sits more. anybody can run a piece of equipment if the want to. how well they run it is another discussion.

between rental yards and home depot (and their rental equipment) the public is being convinced that a weekend warrior can do as good a job as a professional, at less cost. the internet allows ho's to view forums such as LS and pick up valuable information that can be used against us.

they can call the rental yard and get cost on a piece of equipment, pay the same price we do and then use that information to try beating the job cost down. i believe in an informed public, what i don't believe in is an informed public trying to build a silk purse out of a sows ear at our expense.


The rental industry does effect the excavation market. If your just now feeling it consider yourself lucky.

Here is what I do and I am ok saying it on here. I price my min. at the same price it costs to pickup a skid steer and attachment if it applies and maybe just a tad more . I learned that if you want to rent a machine to do something yourself that takes longer than say 3 hours no one can compete with that and I don't try to. Some home owners are decent operators, I dont grudge a guy for trying to save a buck. If you have the skills knock yourself out. If you can't find your asss with both hands, and you still want to do this on your own? You not likely someone that I want to work for anyway. Taking about tactics of machine operation is not something I get into a lot either here or anywhere except when trying to square away my own employees.

ProTouch Groundscapes
03-26-2011, 09:16 AM
do you guys really charge by the hour with your skids? i COST my jobs hourly but i in the end its a flat rate. the customers dont know enough to understand seeing 120 an hr for 8hrs etc... and yes i am costing at 120hr for skid and buckt/fork work and 150hr for skid + snowblower and i get plenty of work. if they dont like it, big deal, the machine and attachments are completely paid for so no worries about payments.

bobcat_ron
03-26-2011, 09:22 AM
do you guys really charge by the hour with your skids? i COST my jobs hourly but i in the end its a flat rate. the customers dont know enough to understand seeing 120 an hr for 8hrs etc... and yes i am costing at 120hr for skid and buckt/fork work and 150hr for skid + snowblower and i get plenty of work. if they dont like it, big deal, the machine and attachments are completely paid for so no worries about payments.

You would be chased out of here after a good tar and featherin', that is so steep, it's highway robbery. I only charge $70 an hour and most other guys around here with 70 hp skids charge just a bit more.

But they RAPE you on haul charges, some are as high as a low bed move. :laugh:

ProTouch Groundscapes
03-26-2011, 02:58 PM
guess it depends on the services. our mowing rates in my area are sustainable for us, but compared to prices in other markets its ridiculous, i mean some guys gettin 40-50 a cut for something that our market see 25-30 for.

JDSKIDSTEER
04-09-2011, 05:23 PM
My latest trade in.

bobcat_ron
04-09-2011, 06:15 PM
How much did you give for the Cat 257?

JDSKIDSTEER
04-09-2011, 06:25 PM
How much did you give for the Cat 257?

I gave 15K trade on new 320D cab unit.

MOREDIRT
04-09-2011, 07:06 PM
How much you want for the bucket ?
Posted via Mobile Device

JDSKIDSTEER
04-09-2011, 08:52 PM
How much you want for the bucket ?
Posted via Mobile Device

It is a new Litter bucket I took to show him...We get 2K for them.

bobcat_ron
04-10-2011, 09:32 AM
It is a new Litter bucket I took to show him...We get 2K for them.

Ironic.....you have a "cat' and a "litter bucket" on one load.

Maybe I'm the only one who sees the ironic humor in that. :waving:

JDSKIDSTEER
04-10-2011, 03:46 PM
Ironic.....you have a "cat' and a "litter bucket" on one load.

Maybe I'm the only one who sees the ironic humor in that. :waving:

Your the man Ron.

JDSKIDSTEER
04-23-2011, 02:21 PM
i traded in a 310G this week, and wanted to show off my 1445 mower. It cuts 8 Acres in 2.5 hours.

tnmtn
04-23-2011, 08:33 PM
Hows that truck like the 310 being on the trailer? nice looking place.

Dirtman2007
04-23-2011, 09:09 PM
i traded in a 310G this week, and wanted to show off my 1445 mower. It cuts 8 Acres in 2.5 hours.

Pond needs some grading... I know someone who does that kinda work:drinkup:

stuvecorp
04-23-2011, 10:59 PM
Pond needs some grading... I know someone who does that kinda work:drinkup:

Grading? I think it needs some landscaping and boulderscaping. :)

JDSKIDSTEER
04-24-2011, 05:14 PM
Hows that truck like the 310 being on the trailer? nice looking place.

F550 handled it just fine. Just a little over the limet though.

4 seasons lawn&land
04-24-2011, 05:46 PM
i traded in a 310G this week, and wanted to show off my 1445 mower. It cuts 8 Acres in 2.5 hours.

whats the cut width

JDSKIDSTEER
04-24-2011, 09:06 PM
whats the cut width

72" deck......I guess if you take the pond, house, garage, small barn, my daughter trailer, two driveways and some woods around the boarder of the property I am only cutting 6.5 to 7 acres.

4 seasons lawn&land
04-25-2011, 08:08 PM
I always wondered what the advantage is over a 72 inch Z. The rated speed is a little less isnt it? And its alot larger machine, yet same cut size. I do see them around so I must be missing something.

JDSKIDSTEER
04-25-2011, 08:12 PM
I always wondered what the advantage is over a 72 inch Z. The rated speed is a little less isnt it? And its alot larger machine, yet same cut size. I do see them around so I must be missing something. They ride better so you can cut faster, cuts banks better, and last much longer than a Z-track. The reason you do not see many and they do not sell good is the price. They are very expensive. Most municipalities purchase them.