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nightshutter
03-20-2011, 12:18 PM
Leaves stayed on grass all winter. cleaned them up a week ago. grass is dead underneath. One of the spots might come back once it gets air. maybe.

Sod was put down last year. not me. Now my solution to save this lady money would be aerate and over seed. she wants sod but doesn't want to spend the money again. I told her the seed would work as an alternative to spending a bunch of money. total about 500 sq ft. Any suggestions that would make it come back real good. besides tear out and replace.

Smallaxe
03-20-2011, 12:32 PM
That is why I have a policy: "Leaves are never allowed to stay on the ground for more than 2 weeks at a time in the fall. And the turf must never go under snow with leaves on it."

How bad is it, and why do the aerator? Aeration is NOT the best tool for a seed bed for grass... Slit seed or broadcast and cover with compost for better germination and a healthier start... Do Not Pre-M, until you actually have lawn... Lawn that can survive have its roots stifled...

nightshutter
03-20-2011, 12:44 PM
Not sure why she waited to have them cleaned up but now she's paying for it. its pretty bad. one spot wont come back, the other might with some sun. pretty yellow. i figured aerate and seed because that works in the fall the thicken up the grass. I gave some thought to seed and mushroom compost.

Smallaxe
03-20-2011, 01:19 PM
If you don't have soil compaction, slit seeding will thicken up the turf even better... I would toss seed on the yellow stuff too... It couldn't hurt... :)

Patriot Services
03-20-2011, 02:49 PM
I agree against the aeration, putting seed 3" down a hole is just wasting. Topdress with 50/50 compost and topsoil. 1" should be fine as the soil from the sod is usually good quality. 500 ft isn't much, it sounds like it would be about same price either way.
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nightshutter
03-20-2011, 03:38 PM
thanks for the tips. So if you both disagree with aeration, Why is the thing with most people to aerate and overseed in the fall?

RigglePLC
03-20-2011, 04:23 PM
An aerator is not a slit-seeding machine. It punches holes.

Patriot Services
03-20-2011, 05:40 PM
They should be done seperately.
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nightshutter
03-20-2011, 05:42 PM
An aerator is not a slit-seeding machine. It punches holes.

I know that. Just wasn't sure why one is recommened over the other. I know what they both do, just not sure if one is more beneficial over the other. Some people aerate and over seed some slit seed.
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Patriot Services
03-20-2011, 06:04 PM
Seeing as how the sod was only a few months old I don't think soil compaction is an issue. Your goal is to regrow grass, the more seed at the proper level as opposed to grouped at the bottom of a hole the denser your stand of turf will be. You don't want to have to do multiple reseedings to fill in the thin spots.
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nightshutter
03-20-2011, 06:34 PM
Seeing as how the sod was only a few months old I don't think soil compaction is an issue. Your goal is to regrow grass, the more seed at the proper level as opposed to grouped at the bottom of a hole the denser your stand of turf will be. You don't want to have to do multiple reseedings to fill in the thin spots.
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aside from my original post.
So what your saying/opinion is that aerate and over seed is not that great as compared to slit seeding. slit seeding gives better coverage? Now you have me off on a different topic. just want to know what's going to give me better results in the future. Thanks for the help

Patriot Services
03-20-2011, 06:41 PM
Your case slit seeding is optimal. IMO.
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nightshutter
03-20-2011, 06:46 PM
Aside from my case. which is better for a normal lawn?

Patriot Services
03-21-2011, 08:29 AM
Depends on the situation. Core aeration is best suited for compaction issues. Not all lawns will require overseeding. Knowing the root cause of the problem will dictate which approach is best suited. Yours was simple suffocation.
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Smallaxe
03-21-2011, 08:34 AM
I know that. Just wasn't sure why one is recommened over the other. I know what they both do, just not sure if one is more beneficial over the other. Some people aerate and over seed some slit seed.
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The principle reason for aeration is for soil compaction and getting water/nutrients into the rootzone. Secondly, punching holes through 'real thatch for the same reason. Then getting soil ammendments into the rhyzosphere... Seeding is just a sidenote in which those holes may grown new grass, rather than just being holes...
Can anyone think of another reason???

Not a reason for aeration is : seeding...

Smallaxe
03-21-2011, 08:39 AM
Aside from my case. which is better for a normal lawn?

Building the soil structure of a 'normal' lawn is the better way to go... Soil compaction is best avoided, as is thatch formation... Aeration is an indication of poor cultural practices, usually as a result of excessive irrigation and fert...

RigglePLC
03-21-2011, 11:47 AM
Nightshutter,
I think sod is the way to go. Sure she doesn't want to pay for it, but its her fault, she knows that. Only 500 sqft, 55 rolls. Instant green--and it matches perfectly. If you use seed--more labor--more soil prep, more chance of crabgrass and weeds, more chance she will not water, more chance of disatisfaction, redo or callbacks, big chance it will include ryegrass and not match in color and growth rate. One trip--how long would it take to lay 55 rolls? No brainer.

Patriot Services
03-21-2011, 12:04 PM
Riggle is right. People are under the illusion that seeding is cheaper as they see only the seed cost. Not understanding the labor and involvement from both sides.
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nightshutter
03-22-2011, 08:27 PM
Im aware it will not be uniform. She is having a hard time thinking of paying for sod again. now she will have to pay tear out and replace.

Smallaxe
03-23-2011, 08:37 AM
I agree it is better to tear out the old sod if you are going to put in new, but you can leave it there if you overseed. You can also get a bag of pure KBG, if it seems it will be more 'perfect'...
But I'm guessing that if she leaves, leaves on the lawn in the fall, 'perfection' is not her issue... And I have seen devestated areas like that come back from the roots... It is often quite sparse and we are talking sod here, so it is a tough call to make... :)

greydog4u2
03-25-2011, 05:12 PM
I have a small problem, I have a potential customer who want`s me to patch two areas in his lawn where very large stumps where ground. should the area be excavated,or could it just have topsoil and seed fert be added

Patriot Services
03-25-2011, 06:10 PM
I planted and laid sod over stumps before without any long term problems. They were ground down 6-8" below grade.
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greydog4u2
03-25-2011, 08:36 PM
I planted and laid sod over stumps before without any long term problems. They were ground down 6-8" below grade.
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Thanks, Iwas concerned that the wood chips would decompose and create a depression in the lawn.

Smallaxe
03-25-2011, 08:40 PM
I have a small problem, I have a potential customer who want`s me to patch two areas in his lawn where very large stumps where ground. should the area be excavated,or could it just have topsoil and seed fert be added

I cleaned up the ground area, with some of it 2" deep only, and filled it in to level, with topsoil and seeded over the top of it... In July...

After a couple of weeks you couldn't tell where the stump used to be... Even the annual rye no longer marked the spot...

Next spring, it came back with everything else, no problem... :)

greydog4u2
03-25-2011, 08:54 PM
I cleaned up the ground area, with some of it 2" deep only, and filled it in to level, with topsoil and seeded over the top of it... In July...

After a couple of weeks you couldn't tell where the stump used to be... Even the annual rye no longer marked the spot...

Next spring, it came back with everything else, no problem... :)
Appreciate the input. That`s what I kind of had in mind Also was wondering if mushrooms growing in these spots would be a problem later on.

Smallaxe
03-25-2011, 09:59 PM
Appreciate the input. That`s what I kind of had in mind Also was wondering if mushrooms growing in these spots would be a problem later on.

Mushrooms are a product of too much water while at the same time decaying wood near the surface... Interesttingly enough the mushrooms occurred over the old roots, 15 feet away but there was never mushrooms over the stump... :)

greydog4u2
03-25-2011, 11:03 PM
Thanks,think you answered my question.

nightshutter
04-01-2011, 11:58 AM
So this lady wants me to seed. She also wants me to put fertilizer down on her lawn when i come out. I would not be putting the "spring" fertilizer on the newly seeded parts. Would i be better off waiting a few weeks on the seed to avoid possible run off? I would be using granual fert. How would you approach this. do which first and wait how long?

Smallaxe
04-01-2011, 08:30 PM
So this lady wants me to seed. She also wants me to put fertilizer down on her lawn when i come out. I would not be putting the "spring" fertilizer on the newly seeded parts. Would i be better off waiting a few weeks on the seed to avoid possible run off? I would be using granual fert. How would you approach this. do which first and wait how long?

Spring Fertilizer" ... What does that mean?

Does it mean, that the Spring Fertilizer has Pre-M in it according to the 5 step "Scott's Regimen"?

Then it is NOT fertilizer... rather it is an Herbicide with a useless amount of N along with it!!!

Ferilizer has nothing to do with seed germination, including P, IMO... Pre-M herbicide, has a lot to do with germination, and that isn't anyone's opinion... that is the nature of the beast...

Get off the H.O.s gimmickery lawn care commercialism and start functioning as a pro. according to horticultural sciences, that teach us how living things function and live...

No offense... :)

nightshutter
04-01-2011, 09:22 PM
none taken..

yes its a herbicide. I should be more careful with my wording. its a pre-m.
thats why im skipping the newly seeded areas. thanks why i asked the question.
I plan on having a 1-2 ft "buffer" zone. My question is will that be enough? I know a herbicide will kill the seed.


would you wait or just have the "buffer" zone?

Smallaxe
04-02-2011, 09:52 AM
none taken..

yes its a herbicide. I should be more careful with my wording. its a pre-m.
thats why im skipping the newly seeded areas. thanks why i asked the question.
I plan on having a 1-2 ft "buffer" zone. My question is will that be enough? I know a herbicide will kill the seed.


would you wait or just have the "buffer" zone?

A buffer should work fine... Just think to yourself, "If the water starts soaking and dispersing this chemical, does it look like any of it will move into my seeding area??"

betmr
04-06-2011, 01:06 PM
thanks for the tips. So if you both disagree with aeration, Why is the thing with most people to aerate and overseed in the fall?

Because they read it somewhere. Seems very few actually know what it is all about. It is something that should be done when needed, not on a yearly basis. And in my opinion, Aeration is not normally needed to sow grass seed. Just another add-on, to get more money, for most.

Smallaxe
04-07-2011, 08:59 AM
Because they read it somewhere. Seems very few actually know what it is all about. It is something that should be done when needed, not on a yearly basis. And in my opinion, Aeration is not normally needed to sow grass seed. Just another add-on, to get more money, for most.

:laugh: And you get a lot of nasty responses when you question the need for it... :laugh: