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View Full Version : Does LIME nutralize the "N"?


LAWNGODFATHER
09-23-2002, 05:59 PM
I head it nutralizes 1/3 of the Nitro in the lawn when you apply it within 2 weeks or so of a fert application.

So does it?

tremor
09-23-2002, 06:13 PM
A very small amount of soluble N does get knocked out by lime & vice versa. I don't think it's as much as 1/3 though.

Let me poke around in here & see if I can find the exact amount.

For the record. I do both at the same time if it's inconvenient to rescedule even on my own lawn.

Steve

strickdad
09-24-2002, 06:22 AM
thats a good question , im like you steve i have been putting them out togther for years, i hope i have not been wrong all this time. :confused:

Turfdude
09-24-2002, 07:51 PM
Have any of you read the side of the bag of lime?
1. helps balance soil pH
2. Helps availability of plant roots to "take up" fertilizer

I have heard that a lot of farmers won't do both at same time. We try to do lime early (February), but if client signs up for program later in season - they'll get lime w/ a fert app.

Bob

65hoss
09-24-2002, 11:53 PM
I sometimes do lime, fertilizer, and seed at the same time. Never had any bad results from it.

lawnstudent
09-25-2002, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by Turfdude
Have any of you read the side of the bag of lime?
1. helps balance soil pH
2. Helps availability of plant roots to "take up" fertilizer

I have heard that a lot of farmers won't do both at same time. We try to do lime early (February), but if client signs up for program later in season - they'll get lime w/ a fert app.

Bob

Lime does not instantly affect a soil's pH, it takes time. Farmers apply lime before the growing season so that the lime has enough time to affect a soil's pH before they plant. In Illinois, lime is usually applied on farmeland in late fall for the next growing season in spring.

Nitrogen is very volitile and does not stay in the soil long. Nitrogen is applied when plants need it, therefore, farmers do not apply lime & nitorgen together because they require a different timing. It has nothing to do with lime knocking down the effectiveness of nitrogen.

jim

greenngrow
09-29-2002, 10:04 PM
LGF,

Was going through the search mode and come across this thread.

The way Lime works is as follows;

The basic component that lime adds to the soil is Ca. "that's calicum.

You have positive and Negitve charges going on in the soil. If your soil is acid. 5.0 or lower then you have the negitive going on. I don't won't to go into to much depth. This is not Soils 101.
But as the Lime is broken down in the soil it frees up charges that the plant can grab a hold of. As well as the soil particles.
Now the reason for appling the lime before any fertilizer. Is so the crushed limestone rock and the fines can break down in the soil. It takes so much more time for this than your Nitrogen or any other nutrient.

Now it is all different if you are talking about Dolimitic Lime. This is a manmade Calicum product. Some call this fast acting lime.
That is another story.

Thanks for the help on the Perma Green
and for the chat.

CSRA Landscaping
09-29-2002, 10:39 PM
Sorry but I have to ask a question that veers just a tad bit off course here.
How quickly does the dolomitic lime act compared to regular crushed limestone?

LAWNGODFATHER
09-29-2002, 11:10 PM
I knew why we applied lime. I just heard a rumor, so I asked about it.

I don't usually question this application, but I see a lot of people who apply lime and fert after an aeration.

But I was going to apply after aeration, seed, and fert, that's how the subject came about.

I use salucal (sp)

Sometimes I get pelletized, but never used lime in powder form.

This has been intersting, thanks for the replies so far.

I just didn't want to waste any money or have to reapply.

tremor
09-30-2002, 06:46 AM
As for the speed of Limes reation:

All limestone is mechanically crushed prior to use.
The finer it is ground, the quicker it works. This because the larger the total surface area, the less time is required for the elements to degrade the material.

Some lime is left in chip form for use as fertilizer grade limestone filler, but has almost no value for our discussion. It would take hundreds of years to break down.

Pelletize lime is the same material as ground lime, to which a moisture sensitive binder has been added.

For years. the pelletized versions of lime performed about the same as similarly ground lime. Whereby the degree that it was ground & it's total CCE (calcium carbonate equivalant) would yield a similar ENV (effective neurelizing value).

Better manufacturing practices have changed that though.

A few years ago our states soil testing/soils dept head, Greg Bugbee, decided to do some side by side comparissons of competing limestone brands.

Bakers Sweet-N-Grow2 & White Pelletizing both slaughtered their competition which even included other pelletized limes. Some of the powdered limes even beat the worst pelletized forms. These 2 made significant Ph changes to the treated fairways after 3-6 months. Some of the lesser materials had meade less impact even after 1-2 years.

All this because of local limestone quality & the degree to which the lime was ground prior to pelletizing.

The 2 best limes, it turned out, were ground to the extent that they would be nearly impossible to spread. Too fine to spread. Then they are mixed with the moisture sensitive binder. Then as they're being rotated in a drum, moisture is introduced. When prills have formed, hot dry air is introduced to dry the finished product. Then it's screened & bagged.

Bakers is still around but Whites was purchased & bacame a new company who's name escapes me. But they're still producing the "good stuff". They are located in Paradise, PA & have a couple other high grade facilities too. Check the values on the bag of the material you use. The higher the ENV & CCE the better off you'll be.

I don't see the need to post the names of the "bad stuff". The information is on the bag because it's required by law. Chances are, the more effort made to HIDE the information on the bag, the worse the material really is. But that's just a guess.

Any bagged lime chips that are easy to spread are probably of little value. Especially if they don't even have the ENV or CCE printed on the bag. I've seen situations where the vendor doesn't make any claims on the bag, yet unscrupulous dealers buy & market the stuff as lime anyway. This is actually legal, if the claims aren't even published on the bag.

Let the buyer beware.

I'm still looking for the % lost to the N vs Ca chemical reaction.

Steve

KLMlawn
09-30-2002, 02:15 PM
Too much Lime can cause nutrients to bind in the soil, thus making them unavailable for uptake by the roots.

tremor
09-30-2002, 06:06 PM
OK,

Let's see if this works. While none of us are actual farmers per se, we do engage in NT (no till) agriculture in a sense.

In this study, N losses ranged from 6-12%.

mailbox:/C|/Program Files/Netscape/Users/lesco/mail/Inbox?id=3D98BD7F.9E805EF0%40lesco.com&number=38199310&part=1.2

But somehow that link doesn't look right.

Steve

tremor
09-30-2002, 06:15 PM
Well that was useless.

Let's try this one.

http://link.springer-ny.com/link/service/journals/10087/bibs/90n4p523.html

That should work.

Steve