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View Full Version : Corn Gluten not labeled for crab grass control???


upidstay
03-28-2011, 03:18 PM
Just saw a bag of Bradfield Organics Luscious Lawns corn gluten 9-0-0. No where on the label does it say anything about crab grass control. Recomends 10lbs per 1000' for fertilizing (.9lbs of N), but not a word about weed control...

phasthound
03-28-2011, 03:43 PM
Just saw a bag of Bradfield Organics Luscious Lawns corn gluten 9-0-0. No where on the label does it say anything about crab grass control. Recomends 10lbs per 1000' for fertilizing (.9lbs of N), but not a word about weed control...

I believe that claim can only be made if the CG meets standards set by Iowa State's patent. Also, by not making that claim on the bag, the product may circumvent the need to have a pesticide license to apply in certain states.

ICT Bill
03-28-2011, 06:32 PM
Just saw a bag of Bradfield Organics Luscious Lawns corn gluten 9-0-0. No where on the label does it say anything about crab grass control. Recomends 10lbs per 1000' for fertilizing (.9lbs of N), but not a word about weed control...

at 10 pounds per 1000 you ARE just fertilizing, it has little to no pre emergent capability at that rate
If you ever see it in a feed mill it has to be 60% protein minimum to be effective as a pre-M, the suggested rate by Iowa state Univ. is 20 pounds per 1000 minimum, their testing went all the way up to 80 Lbs per 1000 YIKES!

ParadiseLS
03-28-2011, 10:14 PM
Bill, i remember seeing someone post here in a prior thread that 40lbs/k is the recommended app for pre-m viability. now i see you talking about higher N content than a 9-0-0.....

i specifically looked for sources for app amounts, and government sites and others are talking about 10lbs/k, and that is generally the manufacturer's recommendation.

1. can you help me out by showing a link to some of this information about applying 4x the recommended dose

2. are the manufacturers and governments misleading consumers because they think all of us dolts will just spread it on like peanut butter and all the N will leach out and alter the ecosystems of the rivers and lakes?

ICT Bill
03-29-2011, 09:12 AM
Bill, i remember seeing someone post here in a prior thread that 40lbs/k is the recommended app for pre-m viability. now i see you talking about higher N content than a 9-0-0.....

i specifically looked for sources for app amounts, and government sites and others are talking about 10lbs/k, and that is generally the manufacturer's recommendation.

1. can you help me out by showing a link to some of this information about applying 4x the recommended dose

2. are the manufacturers and governments misleading consumers because they think all of us dolts will just spread it on like peanut butter and all the N will leach out and alter the ecosystems of the rivers and lakes?

HUH????
I can't speak for governments and have no idea where you have gotten your information
there is 17 or 18 years of testing data here
http://www.hort.iastate.edu/gluten/

HayBay
04-01-2011, 12:15 PM
Paradise LS,

the info you have heard is right.

When they first brought out CGM for Weed supression it was said to use 25lbs/1000 ft.
60% protien content is required in the CGM. Not a higher Nitrogen value.
The effectivness of CGM as a supressant is based on amount applied

10lbs/1000 = fert
25lbs/1000 = supression capabilities

The one thing with all the new ECO or Enviro products is that the amount of AI (Active ingredient) needed to work is getting higher and higher.

From an environmental point of view these products are not reducing impacts but increasing them.

If you want to use CGM as weed supression you will need to buy a forklift and many rat traps. No joke.

Does CGM work consistently and effectively as weed supressant?
I say NO.

CGM is made from Genetically Modified Crops.

JWTurfguy
04-01-2011, 12:54 PM
Upidstay's comment should serve as a good reminder to pay close attention to what's in the products you buy, especially when it comes to organics. Sadly, it seems that especially with organics, there are so many snake-oils and deceptively marketed products that it makes finding good products that much more difficult.

I'm not a big believer in corn gluten as a preemergent, but I know that plenty of other people are. That being said, if you're going to sell it as a preemergent application, make sure that it's labeled as such. Also, kinda makes you wonder about the rest of Bradfield's line if they're so willing to deceive with their corn gluten product, doesn't it??

ICT Bill
04-01-2011, 08:54 PM
Upidstay's comment should serve as a good reminder to pay close attention to what's in the products you buy, especially when it comes to organics. Sadly, it seems that especially with organics, there are so many snake-oils and deceptively marketed products that it makes finding good products that much more difficult.

I'm not a big believer in corn gluten as a preemergent, but I know that plenty of other people are. That being said, if you're going to sell it as a preemergent application, make sure that it's labeled as such. Also, kinda makes you wonder about the rest of Bradfield's line if they're so willing to deceive with their corn gluten product, doesn't it??

I am not standing up for Bradfield although I know the folks that run it well. It is labeled as a fertilizer and at that rate that is about all you can expect. deception? I think maybe not

Marcos
04-05-2011, 12:40 AM
Just saw a bag of Bradfield Organics Luscious Lawns corn gluten 9-0-0. No where on the label does it say anything about crab grass control. Recomends 10lbs per 1000' for fertilizing (.9lbs of N), but not a word about weed control...

Focus on building the turf's overall density.
Ultimately, thick, healthy turf will be your best crabgrass & broadleaf control.

Corn gluten meal @ 10 lb / 1000 is fine as a fertilizer.
So are soybean, alfalfa or cottonseed meal all @ 15-20 lb / 1000.
Distiller's grains has become the hottest deal going cost-wise at least in this part of the country.
Gotta go w/ the flow!

JWTurfguy
04-16-2011, 09:50 AM
Ok, so I stand corrected. While most people who would be looking for corn gluten are probably hoping to use it as a preemergent, if the label doesn't actually claim it and the sales rep doesn't either, it's not deceptive. One would hope that an honest sales rep might make mention of it just in case, but either way, it's your job as the buyer to pay attention to what you're getting.

Still, the point remains that when you're pricing out various suppliers of corn gluten, best to make sure you're comparing "apples-to-apples" in terms of labeled use and not just focusing solely on bag prices.

ICT Bill
04-16-2011, 03:45 PM
Focus on building the turf's overall density.
Ultimately, thick, healthy turf will be your best crabgrass & broadleaf control.

Corn gluten meal @ 10 lb / 1000 is fine as a fertilizer.
So are soybean, alfalfa or cottonseed meal all @ 15-20 lb / 1000.
Distiller's grains has become the hottest deal going cost-wise at least in this part of the country.
Gotta go w/ the flow!

Marcos
I really like distillers grain, it has nice color, spreads easily and does have a fair amount of gluten

Dr.NewEarth
04-16-2011, 04:08 PM
Correct your soil pH too.

ICT Bill
04-16-2011, 07:06 PM
Correct your soil pH too.

If you are on the wagon or in AA it would not be a good idea, you will smell like liquor. What do you mean? I have never looked at the pH, fill me in

at $250 a ton it is a great deal

Dr.NewEarth
04-16-2011, 07:41 PM
I have a book here published by Acres U.S.A. that says to correct the pH and that will help control the crab grass naturally. It can take two years, but it works.

I usually get flamed when I tell people this.

Smallaxe
04-17-2011, 09:29 AM
I have a book here published by Acres U.S.A. that says to correct the pH and that will help control the crab grass naturally. It can take two years, but it works.

I usually get flamed when I tell people this.

Snake Oil and BS are still the only 2 great sellers in this lagging economy... You should try it for 2 years and write up a testamonial...

I like Bill's CGM that is good for 6 weeks then you can overseed again...

Marcos
04-17-2011, 11:48 AM
I have a book here published by Acres U.S.A. that says to correct the pH and that will help control the crab grass naturally. It can take two years, but it works.

I usually get flamed when I tell people this.

Actually, you're right.
Even though its N-potency is around 1/3 less, distiller's grain is actually a better acidifier than cottonseed meal.
It's proving over & over to be a tremendous product in terms of value in our heavy clay, generally high pH S. Ohio soil.

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/news/columns/dairy-focus/dairy-focus-extend-the-shelf-life-of-wet-distillers-grains/

excerpt:
"Before you pack it into the bag, verify that your wet distillers grain has a pH between 3 and 3.5. A low pH enhances preservation, especially when you ensile wet distillers grain with corn stalks or other high-fiber feeds that don�t contain enough water-soluble carbohydrates for proper fermentation.
Most wet corn byproducts come from the processing plant with a pH between 3 and 3.5. Just make sure to ask for an analysis."

Kiril
04-17-2011, 12:20 PM
Actually, you're right.

Right with respect to what? I see CG in soils that hover around a neutral pH.

Smallaxe
04-18-2011, 06:06 AM
Now we're saying that fermentated corn will acidify a soil? Is that like saying UCG, vinegar or pine needles will acidify a soil?

Marcos
04-23-2011, 11:07 PM
Now we're saying that fermentated corn will acidify a soil? Is that like saying UCG, vinegar or pine needles will acidify a soil?

For many newer clients who've had repeat applications of DG & especially whose lawns aren't yet developed enough to crowd out invaders, very recently we've begun to take notice of a common denominator of DG dandelion suppression in terms of an overall lack-of-vigor, compared to neighboring turf containing untreated Taraxacum officinale.

Hat's off to Elfner, our neighbor to the northeast, for turning us onto DG a while back. :waving:

The relative pH of distillers grains.... in a related article discussing DG weed suppression / control of annual weeds in nursery containers :
http://ddr.nal.usda.gov/dspace/bitstream/10113/15807/1/IND44013939.pdf