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panzafit
03-29-2011, 03:53 PM
My husband has started his own lawn business and just got his occupational license. He named the business with his name in it so he didn't have to pay any extra. Now we are looking for liability insurance. We heard about LLC but were not sure if we had to go the LLC route or general liability......does anyone know the answer to this?

Also other than occupational license and some sort of liability insurance is there anything else that is needed?

unkownfl
03-29-2011, 06:08 PM
My husband has started his own lawn business and just got his occupational license. He named the business with his name in it so he didn't have to pay any extra. Now we are looking for liability insurance. We heard about LLC but were not sure if we had to go the LLC route or general liability......does anyone know the answer to this?

Also other than occupational license and some sort of liability insurance is there anything else that is needed?

General Liability is what you need no matter what business entity you have. LLC INC Sole Proprietorship is a business entity. You need a business tax recipe for every county you wish to service with a business tax recipe for every town/city as well. A business tax recipe is what you get instead of an occupational license. You also need to register on SUNBIZ.org your business name even as a sole proprietorship. You don't need insurance for most lawn care in Florida. You can't apply anything to anything besides straight FERT no weed and feed round up etc. You need a sales tax recipe if you plan on selling mulch/sod etc. He needs to call 811 if he plans to put a shovel in the ground period three business days before putting the shovel in the ground. Not doing all of that will result into serious fines and every city, county and the state has enforcement and they are all hard up for money with budget cuts. You must notify your car insurance company that you're using the vehicle for business use or they will deny your claim if something happens. Also I recommend to up your insurance limits to at least 100/300/100 with a name brand company.

FLAhaulboy
03-29-2011, 08:51 PM
"He needs to call 811 if he plans to put a shovel in the ground period three business days before putting the shovel in the ground. Not doing all of that will result into serious fines and every city, county and the state has enforcement and they are all hard up for money with budget cuts."


Not true for NW Florida.

yamadooski
03-29-2011, 09:17 PM
What is a "tax recipe"?:confused:

unkownfl
03-29-2011, 09:18 PM
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0556/Sec105.HTM

unkownfl
03-29-2011, 09:19 PM
What is a "tax recipe"?:confused:

lol receipt

zturncutter
03-29-2011, 10:53 PM
My husband has started his own lawn business and just got his occupational license. He named the business with his name in it so he didn't have to pay any extra. Now we are looking for liability insurance. We heard about LLC but were not sure if we had to go the LLC route or general liability......does anyone know the answer to this?

Also other than occupational license and some sort of liability insurance is there anything else that is needed?

Take some time and some money and go speak to a certified public accountant. Advice is like anything else, you get what you pay for.

jbannick18
04-02-2011, 11:43 PM
If you own assets outside of your business such as a house your are going to want to go LLC as far as setting up your company. This way if a lawsuit were to be filed against you they could not come after your personal assets

jvanvliet
12-22-2011, 08:32 AM
What is a "tax recipe"?:confused:


Tax Recipi:

2 + 2 add a dash of accounting; cook books for 30 minutes = whatever you want it to be for tax purposes

jvanvliet
12-22-2011, 08:34 AM
If the OP needs a liability insurance resource, My wifes company sells it (she's not the agent so she gets no commission)

jackal
12-22-2011, 08:45 AM
If you own assets outside of your business such as a house your are going to want to go LLC as far as setting up your company. This way if a lawsuit were to be filed against you they could not come after your personal assets

Can you show me a statute to that effect? My attorney doesn't seem to think that is true. He seems to feel the advantages are more tax related to some, but not all businesses.

jvanvliet
12-22-2011, 09:10 AM
A little reading never hurt:

LLC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_liability_company

S Corporation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S_corporation

jackal
12-22-2011, 09:30 AM
I read it before thanks. It specifically states that you may not be protected from a lawsuit.

Attorney believes that 2 million liability is sufficient because insurance co is going to fight hard to not have to even pay that out. In the event that is awarded and they are comming after more, they can still come after your personal assets.

Anyone have any experience with this?

jvanvliet
12-22-2011, 09:40 AM
Operative word is MAY, anybody can sue anybody. An LLC is a way to protect your personal assets from a lawsuit. To CYA personally you'd need a rider.

Any suit against an LLC would be limited to the assets of the LLC unless there is criminal conduct on your part.

I have 1/2 mm. and 350k property damage and liability on my vehicles, equipment and trailers.

But it seems you already have solutions from your lawyer. Now check your accountant to see how you can protect yourself from the IRS.

jackal
12-22-2011, 10:13 AM
Operative word is MAY, anybody can sue anybody. An LLC is a way to protect your personal assets from a lawsuit. To CYA personally you'd need a rider.

Any suit against an LLC would be limited to the assets of the LLC unless there is criminal conduct on your part.

I have 1/2 mm. and 350k property damage and liability on my vehicles, equipment and trailers.

But it seems you already have solutions from your lawyer. Now check your accountant to see how you can protect yourself from the IRS.

Seems that will be my next step because my attorney tried to talk me out of it.

Paying less self employment taxes would be nice, but there must be a trade off in there somewhere.

jvanvliet
12-22-2011, 11:15 AM
There's always a trade off. If you incorporate, you'll pay corporate taxes invluding personal income tax.

If you go Sub Chapter S all the income & losses flow to your 1040 but little or no protection for personal assets.

Also, check with another lawyer.

Landscape Poet
12-22-2011, 11:36 AM
Devils advocate here I must admit, but if the guy is just mowing lawns....what are the chances that he will ever get brought into a lawsuit for more than what a basic liability package would cover him for?

I carry liability and have since start up since the cost in min. even for what I carry, but the fact is that in reality if I am just mowing lawns there is a limited amount of damage you can do (with the exception of something getting thrown out of the mower situation and hitting a small child that everyone likes to bring up.)

unkownfl
12-22-2011, 11:43 AM
If your worried about a lawsuit get an umbrella. 1 mil is plenty for mow and go in my opinion. I don't think someone can come after your house in FL if you're homesteaded on it anyways, but I may be wrong...

jvanvliet
12-22-2011, 01:06 PM
If your worried about a lawsuit get an umbrella. 1 mil is plenty for mow and go in my opinion. I don't think someone can come after your house in FL if you're homesteaded on it anyways, but I may be wrong...

They can't throw you out, but they can a get a judgement effectively preventing you from selling it and keeping out of your estate.

People sue for crazy stuff; had a owner at a townhose development claim that my applying glyco was killing her dog... WTF? It's nice to be an LLC and have insurance.

kickingrassllc
06-09-2012, 07:44 PM
sorry to bring up a old post, but ive been shopping around for a policy for my business.

the cheapest i can find for 1 million GL is 640 with farm bureau. anyone got any suggestions on a cheaper place? im new to business and solo operator.

thanks in advance
tom

Patriot Services
06-09-2012, 07:51 PM
Way too much. I assume your in florida? Call Bearwise in Orlando. They will get you a 1mil/2mil aggregate policy from Travelers for a little over 200. Can't do much better than that.:usflag:

mjlcare2
06-09-2012, 08:05 PM
Devils advocate here I must admit, but if the guy is just mowing lawns....what are the chances that he will ever get brought into a lawsuit for more than what a basic liability package would cover him for?

I carry liability and have since start up since the cost in min. even for what I carry, but the fact is that in reality if I am just mowing lawns there is a limited amount of damage you can do (with the exception of something getting thrown out of the mower situation and hitting a small child that everyone likes to bring up.)

What if you(or and employee) hit a water main, spicket on the side of the house, etc and flood the house and ruin the house and all belongings. Someone in the house dies, etc, etc, I'm sure that would lead to a lawsuit.. Too many "what ifs" to not have insurance up to the gills! I have seen the flooded house situation before, not me, but too bad for the family that cared more about getting their lawn cut for $15 then hiring a profesional.

mjlcare2
06-09-2012, 08:07 PM
"He needs to call 811 if he plans to put a shovel in the ground period three business days before putting the shovel in the ground. Not doing all of that will result into serious fines and every city, county and the state has enforcement and they are all hard up for money with budget cuts."


Not true for NW Florida.

That doesn't sound right.. show us some proof if you don't mind.. I'm curious

kickingrassllc
06-09-2012, 08:19 PM
Way too much. I assume your in florida? Call Bearwise in Orlando. They will get you a 1mil/2mil aggregate policy from Travelers for a little over 200. Can't do much better than that.:usflag:

yes south florida.

i tried a couple places and all were 600 and up

will give them a call first thing monday morning, thanks so much

Johnagain
06-09-2012, 09:41 PM
yes south florida.

i tried a couple places and all were 600 and up

will give them a call first thing monday morning, thanks so much

Talk to Dawn at Bearwise. Went to get insurance from them 2 years ago and found out I went to high school with her after we met each other in the office. I paid right around $240 a year. Equipment coverage is about 5 times that price for about $60,000 of equipment.

zturncutter
06-10-2012, 12:05 AM
Travelers, through Black Bear Insurance Agency. Dawn Bennett. 1 million, 2 million aggregate. Around $450.00 per year. 866-296-2327. Cost is going to depend on your payroll.

Landscape Poet
06-10-2012, 02:06 PM
What if you(or and employee) hit a water main, spicket on the side of the house, etc and flood the house and ruin the house and all belongings. Someone in the house dies, etc, etc, I'm sure that would lead to a lawsuit.. Too many "what ifs" to not have insurance up to the gills! I have seen the flooded house situation before, not me, but too bad for the family that cared more about getting their lawn cut for $15 then hiring a profesional.

Valid point for sure, like I said I have always carried insurance but it sure does seem like a waste every year when I pay that bill. But with that said I just got done reading a thread on here about a guy that had already broken two windows this year! :hammerhead: Seriously makes me wonder what the heck they care doing.

The worst thing that I have had happen was my rear tire caught a 90 copper pipe going into the home. Broke it and of course with it being copper I did not have supplies to fix. Got lucky as construction was going on across the street. I shut the water off at the street, informed the customer, got one of the construction guys across the street to fix for 100 bucks. That is the only property damage that I have ever encountered so far, maybe I am getting lucky I don't know.

Landscape Poet
06-10-2012, 02:09 PM
Cost is going to depend on your payroll.

Payroll will play a part for sure , also if you have your equipment covered or not. One thing the person questioning insurance may want to think about is equipment coverage, if you are operating out of house, and if it should catch fire, your equipment most likely will not be covered by your home owners policy. It might be true for your storage facility too if off property. IMHO it is better to ensure that your way of making money is protected.

mjlcare2
06-10-2012, 06:33 PM
Way too much. I assume your in florida? Call Bearwise in Orlando. They will get you a 1mil/2mil aggregate policy from Travelers for a little over 200. Can't do much better than that.:usflag:

I don't see how anybody is getting a 1mil/2mil aggregate policy for around $200.. I think we pay closer to $1200 for ours with additional policy for the extra 2 mil required by a few of our contracts.. and this is from Dawn at Bearwise with policy's through Travelers and Southern.. So am I getting ripped or what? If you all are getting it for around $200, Guess I'm gonna be calling Dawn on Monday and start bitching

Landscape Poet
06-10-2012, 06:46 PM
I don't see how anybody is getting a 1mil/2mil aggregate policy for around $200.. I think we pay closer to $1200 for ours with additional policy for the extra 2 mil required by a few of our contracts.. and this is from Dawn at Bearwise with policy's through Travelers and Southern.. So am I getting ripped or what? If you all are getting it for around $200, Guess I'm gonna be calling Dawn on Monday and start bitching

I pay more than the $1200 for Travelers, but not by much and it includes equipment. Again your payroll will affect your outcome...solo ops are going to pay less than those with employees. I am not sure how the heck they are getting it for that price either though as I did not have that price when I was solo either, but again I had my equipment covered then too.

mjlcare2
06-10-2012, 07:14 PM
I pay more than the $1200 for Travelers, but not by much and it includes equipment. Again your payroll will affect your outcome...solo ops are going to pay less than those with employees. I am not sure how the heck they are getting it for that price either though as I did not have that price when I was solo either, but again I had my equipment covered then too.

Yah exactly.. I think we pay something like $5k a year for insurance all around.. the more you make, the more they want to insure you! Workers comp is by far the most expensive. And since most Gen Liability plans don't go over 1mil/2mil limits if you need more then you have to buy another policy at full price too and just add em together.. not sure how that works out but I certainly don't want to ever find out who is gonna pay if I needed more than 2mil in coverage!.. Luckily the only "accidents" this year are a broken car window( thrown rock) , broken store front window(store employees left debris-they paid) , and 1 car accident, cop ran a stoplight, lights and sirens and caused a multiple car accident from slamming on the brakes. ( My foremen tapped the guy in front of him, 15k lbs don"t stop in 20 ft) can't blame him for that. But the insurance company will and make you pay your deductible even though they aren't found at fault.. go figure!

Patriot Services
06-10-2012, 07:26 PM
For a solo guy with no equipment coverage its 220 bones. I just set my nephew up with a policy.
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Duekster
06-10-2012, 07:42 PM
I must be getting ripped off here in Texas.

kickingrassllc
06-10-2012, 09:34 PM
For a solo guy with no equipment coverage its 220 bones. I just set my nephew up with a policy.
Posted via Mobile Device

Who did you use?
Posted via Mobile Device

mjlcare2
06-10-2012, 09:35 PM
For a solo guy with no equipment coverage its 220 bones. I just set my nephew up with a policy.
Posted via Mobile Device

With what limits on payroll.. if your making 100k a year solo I can guarantee it won't be $220.. whats the first cut-off for payroll $15k?

zturncutter
06-10-2012, 09:42 PM
I think it's $16,700.00 but I may be wrong.

Duekster
06-10-2012, 09:53 PM
They toss on a 15K on top of my payroll to cover me.

Patriot Services
06-10-2012, 10:26 PM
With what limits on payroll.. if your making 100k a year solo I can guarantee it won't be $220.. whats the first cut-off for payroll $15k?

Your not going to start from scratch as a solo and make much more your first year. That's payroll not gross receipts.
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Patriot Services
06-11-2012, 08:04 AM
Its just a starter policy that you can option up as much you want at any time. The point is you have that safety cushion if you need it. Luckily I've gone 20+ years without having to file a claim. Insurance doesn't replace vigilance and good safety habits.
Posted via Mobile Device

jvanvliet
06-11-2012, 08:18 AM
Insurance doesn't replace vigilance and good safety habits.
Posted via Mobile Device

Dang! :D

.

Ric
06-11-2012, 11:33 AM
With what limits on payroll.. if your making 100k a year solo I can guarantee it won't be $220.. whats the first cut-off for payroll $15k?

I think it's $16,700.00 but I may be wrong.


As a One man band I take a lower salary and a quarterly Bonus that is taxable income but not considered Salary. I save on other payroll taxes plus it doesn't effect my SS check because it is investment income. This is all legal if done correctly. Remember if corporate America can do it why can't we.



.

Duekster
06-11-2012, 01:34 PM
As a One man band I take a lower salary and a quarterly Bonus that is taxable income but not considered Salary. I save on other payroll taxes plus it doesn't effect my SS check because it is investment income. This is all legal if done correctly. Remember if corporate America can do it why can't we.



.

That used to be the case for S-Corps but I think they Nixed that because of people like John Edwards that abused it. C-Corps can do it but they pay 35% income tax at the top level.

Duekster
06-11-2012, 03:24 PM
Again not Florida this is Texas rates for a landscape maintenance company with a Squirt and Fert endorsement of 300k


WC 4.87 per 100 ( IE 4.87% of payroll and subs)



GL looks to be 3% but I am still looking for my actual renewal.

Patriot Services
06-11-2012, 03:57 PM
Difference in FL is the fert and squirt. CPO are generally treated as a seperate industry. There are a lot of Ala~cart options to choose from.
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Ric
06-11-2012, 05:14 PM
That used to be the case for S-Corps but I think they Nixed that because of people like John Edwards that abused it. C-Corps can do it but they pay 35% income tax at the top level.

Duekster

Use some common sense. As a one man semi retired part time guy I can Cook the Books all I want. Back in the day I was an S corp. My children were Officers and of course they needed college courses as company officers. If GMC can do it, Why not me too.



.

Duekster
06-11-2012, 05:32 PM
Duekster

Use some common sense. As a one man semi retired part time guy I can Cook the Books all I want. Back in the day I was an S corp. My children were Officers and of course they needed college courses as company officers. If GMC can do it, Why not me too.



.

I appreciate you and all your help, advice and input but common sense is not posting some things on a fourm.

Ric
06-11-2012, 06:11 PM
I appreciate you and all your help, advice and input but common sense is not posting some things on a fourm..


Just about every Small businessman uses creative Accounting in some way. No way I could get busted for saying I cook the Books.



.

Landscape Poet
06-11-2012, 07:55 PM
I think it's $16,700.00 but I may be wrong.

This is true for Travelers and Nationwide. I have been investigating different cost options recently.

They will automatically consider the owner's salary as this amount because they know that the owner can cook the books to show they make less if they want.

This is what I have found so far. Nationwide is a much better option for me at this point even though Travelers was when I first signed up. Nationwide gives a much better rate for someone with my wants. This includes covering all my equipment from damage and theft, having a employee with wages over $22K on top of my min of $16.7K salary from them and needing 1mil/2mill general liability. The reason was not so much that the general liability portion was cheaper through Nationwide because it was more expensive on its own but when the equipment protection was added the overall rate went down enough to save me several hundred dollars a year. Both companies are A rated for financials so no worries there, still reviewing everything and having the wife that works in insurance run a double check before switching but looking forward to sticking a couple hundred back in my pocket each year.

Patriot Services
06-11-2012, 08:21 PM
For a guy just starting with a 5X8, WB and 3 handhelds doing 20~40 accounts its a perfect fit. Equipment coverage would be overkill.
Posted via Mobile Device

Landscape Poet
06-11-2012, 08:37 PM
For a guy just starting with a 5X8, WB and 3 handhelds doing 20~40 accounts its a perfect fit. Equipment coverage would be overkill.
Posted via Mobile Device

I agree and I questioned my agent if it was possible to get GL for that price today and it is through travelers and that is affordable so NOOBs have no reason why they should not be insured.

Me personally, I just feel better knowing if my equipment is jacked, if it is in a fire, if a tornado or hurricane takes it out...I am not out of business. If I were starting out like you described, it might be different.

Duekster
06-11-2012, 08:41 PM
.


Just about every Small businessman uses creative Accounting in some way. No way I could get busted for saying I cook the Books.



.

Think again my friend! You are god people but Obama is looking to collect.

Patriot Services
06-11-2012, 08:57 PM
Not for nothing, but a CPO in FL has probably the most detailed documentation of what they did when and where than any landscaper. You are required to account for just about every drop of product you buy and apply. Its been said a few times on here it takes way more effort to be dishonest with less return than to run a legit operation.
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kayeproperties
10-29-2013, 11:33 AM
I wouldnt call BEARWISE in Orlando, I called at least 3 times -2 messages 1 real person who sent me to some guys voice mail. I emailed at least 3 times also. I dont understand how they operate but it dont look very good.

Patriot Services
10-29-2013, 11:42 AM
I wouldnt call BEARWISE in Orlando, I called at least 3 times -2 messages 1 real person who sent me to some guys voice mail. I emailed at least 3 times also. I dont understand how they operate but it dont look very good.

That's weird. Back in the day when I used them as a solo op the service was great. $418 a year bought me decent policy, now with employees and a broader spectrum the price is much higher and I use Nationwide.:usflag:

zturncutter
10-29-2013, 04:00 PM
That's weird. Back in the day when I used them as a solo op the service was great. $418 a year bought me decent policy, now with employees and a broader spectrum the price is much higher and I use Nationwide.:usflag:

It's still great, just spoke with Drew a few minutes ago about my Workers comp. Had the answer right away no problem, looks like some one may have a beef with the company for some reason. kayeproperties has posted on two different threads.

Greg78
10-29-2013, 09:42 PM
I had problems getting calls returned with Bearwise. Same story every time, "I'll call you in the morning", 3 days later still no call backs. I finally went with a different provider.

kayeproperties
10-31-2013, 11:49 AM
I dont have a beef as I never did business with them. not for lack of trying. I just wouldnt recommend any one that after at least 6 attempts never even replies. Maybe he is making too much money already. Its his business I just posted as an FYI for others. I thought this is what this site was about???