Big Fertilizer co. with Big nitrogen

[Shady Brook]

Talked to an applier today who works for a very large ferttilizer company. Asked him what he was putting down, and he told me a weed and feed %40 N, and at a rate of 2.5lb Nitrogen per thousand. He said late fall it will be %60 at 4.0 - 4.25 lb per thousand. Am I crazy, but these are really high Nitrogen apps? He said all apps were a quick release N, with the exception of the mid summer app. These numbers do not look like the reccomendations from Purdue. No wonder I am mowing hay after the guy comes around.

Jay

[f350]

who cares it's fall, cash the check and call it a day.. some times we outthink ourselves

[Shady Brook]

I guess I care if I have to mow a lawn 2 or three times, or bag a bunch of grass because of tremendous growth. I am glad the stuff is growing and all, but the people who are not even fertilizing are growing now, and only take half the time to make the same money.

Jay

[KirbysLawn]

This is why I don't mow any lawns unless I do the fertilizing also.... screw that.

[Shady Brook]

I hear ya Kirby, words of wisdom!

Jay

[KirbysLawn]

Yea...and sometimes we under think and over work ourselves. Have at it dude.

[tremor]

2.5 Lbs of N would be absurd! Leaf Spot, then later Snow Mold would destry whats left of the turf.

That would mean he was applying a granular 40%N at 6.5lbs/M. I think the applicator was yanking your chain.

Whether liquid or granular, I doubt even the least scrupulous would through their money away on bad agronomics.

I'll wager the real N rate was more like 1.5Lbs N/M. And that's just fine for most home lawns at or around the time the lawns are going dormant. Though it would be a little too heavy around here right now.

Steve

[tremor]

Oh yeah, one more thing.

Only anhydrous ammonia gets any where near 60%N. And its around 80% I think. Urea's as high as it gets for N for most lawn care uses at 46%N.

That applicator didn't have a clue what he was talking about.

Any chance he was thinking about straight Muriate of Potash? That would be 0-0-62. There are a few guys who use this for their last app because it's wicked cheap. We're talking something like $10 per acre. But it's not going to make the lawn grow.

But it will make the checking account grow!

Steve

[Shady Brook]

It's true this fella did not seem overly bright. He maybe completely ignorant, he did not seem to be lying. It is hard to tell, a good liar does not seem to lie. When he was telling me about all that Nitrogen, I asked him of the grass was able to store all that N til Spring, which he said caused quick green up, and he said Yep! He was putting down grannulated.

I talked to another big LCO same day who is good friends with another huge Applicating co., and asked him a few questions, and ranted about the high N app.s that the other Fert Company was doing, and he said Ya gotta load up the N to combat brown spot/brown patch. He said yeah man, ya got to pour it on. I thought over fertilizing was a main reason for brown patch, but what do I know.

Maybe I am ment to learn the trade and help some of these unsuspecting people. :)

Thanks
Jay

[tremor]

Large amounts of soluble N during warm whether WILL CAUSE Brown Patch.

Now that it's cool, the logic behind applying large amounts of N could only be to aid in recovery of previous damage.

But this approach won't have an impact on the future liklihood of Brown Patch.

And it may cause Leaf Spot if we're talking about cool season grasses here.

Steve

[MPhillips]

this is an interesting story...both of these applicators have said things that are so wrong...haha Is there tremendous/bitter competition out there? Could they intentionally be trying to deceive? This reads like, "how to burn a lawn and cause disease".

[tremor]

That's what I've been wondering. Maybe they feel they can undermine their competition with disinformation? Pretty low if that's the case.
Either way, this speaks to less than professional practices that our industry would do well to avoid.

Maybe it's time to start a thread called "The LCO's code of Ethics".

I'd take the oath. In a way, many of us already have in our words & deeds.

Steve

[Shady Brook]

Ok, more info for ya. I spoke to a guy from the second company, the one the other LCO spoke of pouring on the N.

Ok, so I ask this guy what he is applying, and he said 30% N, and some other percentages I can not recall, probably standard stuff. Anyway, so I say how much N per thousand, and he says " right now 4lb's! So I imply that that is an incredible amount, and he then clarified that he did not mean N, he ment total product, which he then thought for a few seconds to try to figure how much N that would be in actuality fumbling out something around a pound.

I believe this must have been what the other guy had in mind when I asked how much N, he must have been thinking total product per thousand.

To me it seems clear that they are just in the habit of spreading the same stuff over time, that they do not even think about what there doing anymore.

The guy I spoke to today did say that he was putting down SCU, so there would not be any chance of burn, where they other guy said he was doing fast release.

In any event, that probably ends the mystery, even though the first guys' numbers still seemed pretty wacky.

I think there is a place for guys who know what they are doing in this business.

Take care
Jay

[GroundKprs]

As heard from a Chemlawn rep, about 13 years ago: "The ideal product would be something you could apply at 10% the specified rate, or at 10x the specified rate, and it would still do the job it is supposed to do. Then we could hire just anybody as hose jockeys."

Perhaps that's where the hiring is now?

[tremor]

So 30% of 4 (%N times rate of product in lbs/M) equals 1.2lbsN/M.

This is the most basic stuff we need to know.

20 years ago when I worked for a "big guy", we would train those who weren't formerly educated.

This is a very sad situation. The guy should have known before he started spreading. But even if he forgot, this is basic head math.

Oh yeah, there's nothing wrong with 1.2lbs/N right now in this area anyway. Our drought is long gone & cool weather is upon us. Thanks to Isadoor!

Steve

[Turfdude]

Actually, around here, a lot of guys will go high N in early fall (as Tremor pointed out to help turf recover from summer stress). Then in November, when lawns are dormant, most guys use 30+ N up to 46-0-0 SCU N as the N will actually go to root and stem as plant is not in growth state. This has been preached by our Coop. extension service over using a starting fertilizer as it has been noticed that P levels have actually been a little high in our area.

The high N late season, helps sustain the green color through the winter, and as spring arises, you can cut back on the N (and possibly avoid some fungal problems) as well as be able to keep up w/ an already very fast growing time of year.

Bob