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Frogballs
04-07-2011, 08:52 AM
So last fall I started over with a total renovation of my lawn. The machine used to till and seed left lines of grass when it came up. It grew for roughly 3 mowings before the cold set in. It looked great last year and without walking it so you can look down, it looks great still. I am in lower Connecticut and the day temps have started to reach 50+ and night is 40+/-. There are some bare spots and some little high spots from the machine unearthing potatoes.

What is the right process to start off this year? The bare/thin areas, Pre Em, soil amendments and so on are all a concern. I am extremely eager to do whatever it takes and I have access to lawn maintenance machinery.

The lawn was a combo of 50/50 Rye Blue, and straight Rye broadcast after the machine, all from Lesco.

Smallaxe
04-08-2011, 09:13 AM
In my opnion, bare spots are more important than Pre-M... Let the grass grow a little taller, like 3" for a healthier more vigoros start... After 2 or 3 mowings this spring put your N on then so as not to burn out the stored carbohydrates and promote, all top growth...

Frogballs
04-08-2011, 08:17 PM
Thank you. So you think it is best to slice the thin areas and overseed and garden weasel the small spots in place of a spring Pre M? Just have the broadleaf sprayed by someone after it pops?
I ran a JRCO today to get the grass standing up again. Was planning on liming and rolling Monday.

Smallaxe
04-09-2011, 06:13 AM
Thank you. So you think it is best to slice the thin areas and overseed and garden weasel the small spots in place of a spring Pre M? Just have the broadleaf sprayed by someone after it pops?
I ran a JRCO today to get the grass standing up again. Was planning on liming and rolling Monday.

The problem with bare spots is that if you don't fix them, you live with them all summer long. Yes, you may have a problem with CG in the middle of summer, but there are ways to handle that, without having a dirty lawn...

The decision ultimately lies with you... are you willing to risk the CG to cover the dirt, or is the dirt tolerable to avoid CG... Nowdays you can have the best of both worlds if you are willing to pay for grass friendly pre-m... Tupersan, I think is the brand name of it...

Teach123
04-09-2011, 10:04 AM
Here is what I did a couple of springs ago when I did the same thing as you....renovated with a 50/50 Rye KBG in the Fall. I went ahead and garden weaseled a few bare areas and sowed some good seed. Although the temps were still pretty cool, at least the seed was there when the soil warmed. Then, I covered those spots and applied a granular form of pre-M. Worked like a charm. No crabgrass, and good germination of the seed (not just the Rye..the KBG too!). However, because it was spring as opposed to fall, I had to baby the crud out of the seeded areas. I jhad to have my retired father come over and water those spots during the day while at work. The wind in the spring can be stronger and you can't let those spots dry out. Good luck man!

Frogballs
04-09-2011, 02:51 PM
Here are some pictures of the situation. The cultipacker lines are really what are showing. I am surprised at how they are still here even after I ran the spreader 3 laps after the machine and used the back of a rake to rid the lines. I really would hate to see this lawn go to the weeds as the timing is right on us. Garden weasel seems like a great idea in the areas I can manage, but the stripes from the machine and various thin spots have me worried.
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k100/frogballs5000/LAWN/IMG_1433.jpg
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k100/frogballs5000/LAWN/IMG_1436.jpg
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k100/frogballs5000/LAWN/IMG_1438.jpg

bigslick7878
04-09-2011, 04:01 PM
Aerate it, light overseed and fertilize it. No need for any more seed it is pretty full as it is.

What type of mower are you using that is leaving those clumps of cut grass all over the place when the grass hasn't even really started getting thick and full yet this early in the year? (if that is what it is I really can't tell from the pic)

Frogballs
04-09-2011, 08:52 PM
That is matted down grass from the snowfall. I am guessing I left it a little too long for winter? The JRCO took car of most of it.
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k100/frogballs5000/LAWN/IMG_1435-1.jpg

RigglePLC
04-10-2011, 11:27 AM
I am thinking...you cannot risk having a crabgrass problem. If you have ever had crabgrass in the past--apply crabgrass control. Rely on water and high-quality fertilizer and the grass should fill-in just fine over the summer. Reseed any spots where soil is visible in late summer.

Remember that ryegrass is aggressive as a seedling; it crowds out bluegrass in the first year or two. You may have 90 percent rye. And rye does not creep--no rhizomes. Best to seed no more than 20 percent rye when mixed with bluegrass.

bigslick7878
04-10-2011, 01:53 PM
I don't see a lot of rye in there, loos like a lot of fescue.

That said, i do see spots where if not filled in could be...with crabgrass.

Aerate, overseed and fertilize and in a month you should be good to go. That 2nd closeup pics shows a bit of thin areas that you couldn't see in the other pics.

You are very close to the a nice full lawn but not there yet. One more go around and you should be there and have nothing to worry about for a long time.

Frogballs
04-11-2011, 08:57 AM
If I overseed now, could you guys advise me on the proper steps? I can get my hands on a Turfco slice seeder but it destroys the lawn, it's really aggressive. The way I have used it in the past is a 2 direction pass. It rips out a ton of the lawn and leaves behind a mess. Blowing it off after always results in blowing out a lot of the seed. The timing is a little off I think because of crabgrass coming ASAP. Tupersan is stupid money and not a great result, in my opinion. I have had great luck with the Lesco starter fert and the Calturf at the same time. What seed recommendations? This weeks weather looks 45-60 during the days and 40's at night. Forsynthia just started to show their buds. I have irrigation as well.

Smallaxe
04-11-2011, 11:00 AM
If I overseed now, could you guys advise me on the proper steps? I can get my hands on a Turfco slice seeder but it destroys the lawn, it's really aggressive. The way I have used it in the past is a 2 direction pass. It rips out a ton of the lawn and leaves behind a mess. Blowing it off after always results in blowing out a lot of the seed. The timing is a little off I think because of crabgrass coming ASAP. Tupersan is stupid money and not a great result, in my opinion. I have had great luck with the Lesco starter fert and the Calturf at the same time. What seed recommendations? This weeks weather looks 45-60 during the days and 40's at night. Forsynthia just started to show their buds. I have irrigation as well.

It looks to m as though you are overpopulated in the rows, and it doesn't appear that the gap is that much... It should fill in and spread nomally as it thins in the overpopulated areas...

This process works best with active root growth in the spring and starts as the soil warms... that is your timer... soil temperature...

I'm going to say that root inhibitor being put on lawns b4 they are even waking up from dornancy is stupid, unless you are the guy gettin paid to do it... Pre-m after 3rd real mowing, in May or June, same as Fertilizer...

Frogballs
04-11-2011, 11:18 AM
It looks to m as though you are overpopulated in the rows, and it doesn't appear that the gap is that much... It should fill in and spread nomally as it thins in the overpopulated areas...

This process works best with active root growth in the spring and starts as the soil warms... that is your timer... soil temperature...

I'm going to say that root inhibitor being put on lawns b4 they are even waking up from dornancy is stupid, unless you are the guy gettin paid to do it... Pre-m after 3rd real mowing, in May or June, same as Fertilizer...

Smallaxe, this is what I was hoping someone would say. I hope you understand that I am just nervous about having a great lawn. I am trying to learn as much as my brain will take in and am finding hands on is the best method as the Scotts books are too broad and the text books are way over my head.
Can you elaborate on the root inhibitor statement?
I was asked by my friend if I wanted to take the applicators test and work for him. His knowledge is business and not the fundamentals or fertilizer and or pesticides. Can you suggest more reading about this area? The study guide I was given is lame. It talks about the safety which is all well and good, as is the secondary book Weeds of the Northeast. They don't explain the processes of why or when to apply. I am not trying to get ahead of myself in the learning but I feel both books need to come together somehow and that is where I am getting stuck.
I truly enjoy this field and am anxious to be involved but I want to go about it all the right way.

bigslick7878
04-12-2011, 06:34 PM
I will say it one more time, this really is not complicated as some make EVERYTHING out to be.

Rent an aerator.

Use it.

Overseed/starter fertilize

Water.

Save all the technical talk for when you have a real problem with the lawn. Presently you do not. You have a very basic, simple issue that can be fixed with a very basic, simple approach.

Smallaxe
04-13-2011, 07:23 AM
Smallaxe, this is what I was hoping someone would say. I hope you understand that I am just nervous about having a great lawn. I am trying to learn as much as my brain will take in and am finding hands on is the best method as the Scotts books are too broad and the text books are way over my head.
Can you elaborate on the root inhibitor statement?
I was asked by my friend if I wanted to take the applicators test and work for him. His knowledge is business and not the fundamentals or fertilizer and or pesticides. Can you suggest more reading about this area? The study guide I was given is lame. It talks about the safety which is all well and good, as is the secondary book Weeds of the Northeast. They don't explain the processes of why or when to apply. I am not trying to get ahead of myself in the learning but I feel both books need to come together somehow and that is where I am getting stuck.
I truly enjoy this field and am anxious to be involved but I want to go about it all the right way.

Wisco doesn't teach Pesticide use either. It's all about running the various sprayers to get the correct calibration etc. Evidently they never talk about Pre-M working by inhibiting root growth, in any state program for professional applicators...

Pre-M doesn't kill established plants, but it does inhibit root growth in any plant that sucks it into its system. Seedlings of course expend their energy to produce a root in order to survive and if that root doesn't grow sufficiently, it dies...

I am no sure yet how Siduron and tupersan work, and why the turf grass seedlings are unaffected...

RigglePLC
04-13-2011, 02:23 PM
Scotts Book, "Lawns your guide to a beautiful lawn" by Nick Christians of Iowa State University is good. Also "The Lawn Geek" by Trey Rogers. Best and most detailed is Jim Beard's book, "Turfgrass Science and Culture".

Most books do not discuss specific control and weed products as the products evolve and change too often. Out of date too quick--and publisher would be stuck with unsellable copies.

REad a few hundred posts on here. And talk to several chemical dealers.

Smallaxe
04-13-2011, 09:16 PM
Scotts Book, "Lawns your guide to a beautiful lawn" by Nick Christians of Iowa State University is good. Also "The Lawn Geek" by Trey Rogers. Best and most detailed is Jim Beard's book, "Turfgrass Science and Culture".

Most books do not discuss specific control and weed products as the products evolve and change too often. Out of date too quick--and publisher would be stuck with unsellable copies.

REad a few hundred posts on here. And talk to several chemical dealers.

Not trying to be difficult , but pre-m hasn't changed since its inception... "Barrier" was the sales gimmick and "root inhibitor" was the reality...

Be sure to avoid the growth habits of crabgrass so the "System" makes mega-millions for TGCL and Scotts...

You don't need textbooks , when a simple fact will do... :)