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bug-guy
04-15-2011, 07:06 AM
anyone coming across this yet. it seems the extension office is claiming all damage is from this fungus.


joe

Ric
04-15-2011, 09:36 AM
anyone coming across this yet. it seems the extension office is claiming all damage is from this fungus.


joe

bug guy

I had one case many years ago and used Cleary 3336 to cure it. I love to say the name of the microbal that cause Take All, Gaeumannomyces graminis graminis or Ggg.

coiclawn
04-15-2011, 12:29 PM
I had about 12 lawns with it last year, never had more than 1 0r 2 in years past and so far this year I've already got about a dozen or so. The best treatment I've found so far is Eagle fungicide.

White Gardens
04-15-2011, 04:36 PM
Ran across a rare fungal/root rot problem up here a few years back and a couple of applications of Consan worked for my situation.

greendoctor
04-15-2011, 04:58 PM
I had about 12 lawns with it last year, never had more than 1 0r 2 in years past and so far this year I've already got about a dozen or so. The best treatment I've found so far is Eagle fungicide.

Eagle is a very good product for this. Be careful of it at higher temperatures. It is still a DMI fungicide with reduced, but still present growth inhibition properties. Insignia or Heritage are also good products that are not DMI.

Turf Dawg
04-15-2011, 06:05 PM
For us here in Texas we have been hit with this the last couple years, but before that it happened very seldom. It is suppost to be from our soil PH rising. They are telling us to spread Peat Moss at a 3 or 4 cubic feet per K. Beleive it or not it works pretty darn good. The only thing the peat is for is the acid in it. Apperently the take all fungus cannot survive in Ph below 6.7 so the peat on the Stolons watered in will lower the Ph in the fungus zone and kill it.

quiet
04-15-2011, 08:54 PM
It's most important to incoporate BMP dealing with TARR.

Fungicides have limited effect when the outbreak is fully established. That being said, Cleary's 3336 and Eagle produce results when the outbreak is just beginning.

Peat Moss is effective because it lowers the soil pH. But also use acidifying fertilizers - ammonium sulfate instead of urea - and be sure to get plenty of potassium down. And fertilizers that contain manganese are very beneficial, as TARR inhibits manganese uptake.

But most importantly, manage your irrigation cycling properly.

Keith
04-15-2011, 09:20 PM
I had about 12 lawns with it last year, never had more than 1 0r 2 in years past and so far this year I've already got about a dozen or so. The best treatment I've found so far is Eagle fungicide.

By chance, were these Palmetto St. Augustine?

ArTurf
04-15-2011, 10:24 PM
I have one lawn with this condition. Once I learned what it was and how to treat it I have kept it under control. I use the guidelines from this http://www.uaex.edu/Other_Areas/publications/PDF/FSA-7560.pdf
I have used Cleary & Eagle as preventatives plus the cultural practices. I haven't actually used any fertilizer on this lawn in the past couple of years and it is one of the best lawns I have. From what I understand you cannot eliminate the disease only try and control it to some degree.

White Gardens
04-15-2011, 10:29 PM
So what are the symptoms that you guys are seeing? Is it just brown dead patches in the lawn that look similar to chemical burn?

Is it also effecting plants in the landscapes?

Just curious as to what you Southern guys are seeing and if it's similar to what I dealt with a few years back.

Ric
04-16-2011, 01:13 AM
So what are the symptoms that you guys are seeing? Is it just brown dead patches in the lawn that look similar to chemical burn?

Is it also effecting plants in the landscapes?

Just curious as to what you Southern guys are seeing and if it's similar to what I dealt with a few years back.

White

The Big give away is the visible Mycelium growth on top of the turf in the early morning.

greendoctor
04-16-2011, 02:09 AM
I first saw Take All in Hawaii during the early 1990's. One of the big issues was that it was assumed to be another disease such as melting out or dollar spot. The giveaway that something was way wrong was how the grass died in patches and failed to grow back. It hit bermuda and seashore paspalum lawns really hard. That is why many lawns here are either Emerald zoysia dating back to the 1950's or they were redone with El Toro in the 1990's.

Because of shipping and labor costs, peat moss is a very expensive treatment here. I use acidifying fertilizers on soils that are not already acidic. Water soluble iron and manganese is a monthly application for my lawns. I will not use coated urea fertilizers either. I would rather have coated ammonium sulfate if there were such a thing and that granule would have to be the size of sand for my lawns. Here and there, I hear this urban legend that fertilizer feeds diseases. Not in my experience. A lawn stricken by disease is treated with a fungicide drench that also contains ammonium sulfate, potassium nitrate, and soluble micronutrients. Within 14 days of this application, it is normally evident that the lawn is doing much better than before I treated it. A key to whether treatment will even work is irrigation management. There is nothing worse than a lawn growing on clay soil that is irrigated by short cycling the system instead of watering deeply once or twice a week. Paying attention to how a lawn is fertilized and irrigated has meant that I normally see Take All on a newly acquired lawn.

Ric
04-16-2011, 09:05 AM
Green

It seems to me it like stressed turf on Alkaline soil. For that reason it hit hard in Texas a few years back. Texas has a lot of high pH clay soil and they had a real drought. When the rain finally came, so did Take All.

quiet
04-16-2011, 12:25 PM
greendoctor touched on this, and is correct: the urban legend that fertilizer feeds diseases is not correct. IMPROPER fertilization can feed disease.

But a properly fertilized, healthy turf resists and fights off diseases - and recovers much quicker.

Ric
04-16-2011, 02:38 PM
greendoctor touched on this, and is correct: the urban legend that fertilizer feeds diseases is not correct. IMPROPER fertilization can feed disease.

But a properly fertilized, healthy turf resists and fights off diseases - and recovers much quicker.

Quiet

Properly fertilized turf also resists Run off and Leaching. This is something we are fight the Tree Huggers and Granola Fruits and Nuts about right now in Florida. Many of our local Government agency have passed No Fertilizer ordinances in their area. The U of Fla has issued a study showing that no fertilizing cause more pollution in our water than too much fertilizer. The theory here is healthy turf filters the water.

spray_man
04-16-2011, 02:58 PM
anyone coming across this yet. it seems the extension office is claiming all damage is from this fungus.


joe

Joe, I've been battling this. It may not be a fungus. Look for signs of the army worm. The most telling sign is the final stage of this pest which is the moth (brown/beige size of a quarter). If you see the moth flying out of the bushes or from the grass thatch, when you are spraying, this may be your problem. I use Bifen XTS to treat it. Usually two sprays, five days apart will do it. Sometimes three sprays five days apart.

Turf Dawg
04-16-2011, 07:21 PM
Take All is pretty easy to identify. Along the affected area find a good Stolon that goes from the good area to the bad area. Pull up the Stolon so you get good and bad. The non affected area should look regular with good roots, farther down to the affected area it will get darker and the roots will look kind of yellow and the area it has already killed will have a dead and dry Stolon area with dark and hard roots.

greendoctor
04-17-2011, 03:35 AM
Quiet

Properly fertilized turf also resists Run off and Leaching. This is something we are fight the Tree Huggers and Granola Fruits and Nuts about right now in Florida. Many of our local Government agency have passed No Fertilizer ordinances in their area. The U of Fla has issued a study showing that no fertilizing cause more pollution in our water than too much fertilizer. The theory here is healthy turf filters the water.

Quite true. If you want to control P runoff, soil run off has to be minimized. Best way I know how to do that is to maintain actively growing grass at all times of the year. Even during the rainy season. I cannot imagine doing it by starving the grass at that time. It is my belief that the tree huggers just hate lawns.

I am in an area where it does not rain for months on end. But if and when it does, I would not want to be the one who just spread 200 lb of granules per acre ahead of a storm dropping 4 inches of rain per hour. Therefore I do not ever apply high rates of slow release or 100% soluble. I have seen coated fertilizer wash straight into the storm drain from the lawn during one of those 4 inchers.

Ric
04-17-2011, 09:29 AM
Quite true. If you want to control P runoff, soil run off has to be minimized. Best way I know how to do that is to maintain actively growing grass at all times of the year. Even during the rainy season. I cannot imagine doing it by starving the grass at that time. It is my belief that the tree huggers just hate lawns.

I am in an area where it does not rain for months on end. But if and when it does, I would not want to be the one who just spread 200 lb of granules per acre ahead of a storm dropping 4 inches of rain per hour. Therefore I do not ever apply high rates of slow release or 100% soluble. I have seen coated fertilizer wash straight into the storm drain from the lawn during one of those 4 inchers.

Green

I didn't mean to hijack this thread but because of the Fruits And Nuts in the Granola crowd, this is a hot subject in Florida. See my thread about House Bill CS/HB Fertilizer. Be sure to read the part where says the state law will negate any local ordinances. I think that one statement should tell you how bad the Tree Huggers have some counties locked up. Of course this still has to pass into law.

greendoctor
04-18-2011, 04:25 AM
Ric, this is perfectly relevant to the discussion. One of the reasons why I am not having to spray fungicides on a lawn monthly 12 months out of the year is that my professional judgement is not trumped by a tree hugger with an anti lawn agenda. The same can be said for herbicide usage. I keep lawns thick and green so the need for herbicides are greatly reduced. I could stop spoon feeding, then will need to intensify disease and weed control.

Ric
04-18-2011, 10:12 AM
Ric, this is perfectly relevant to the discussion. One of the reasons why I am not having to spray fungicides on a lawn monthly 12 months out of the year is that my professional judgement is not trumped by a tree hugger with an anti lawn agenda. The same can be said for herbicide usage. I keep lawns thick and green so the need for herbicides are greatly reduced. I could stop spoon feeding, then will need to intensify disease and weed control.

Greendoctor

One of the the sure fire causes of Take All is Turf under stress. Let us go back to the basics of the disease triangle.

SUSCEPTIBLE HOST,

PRESENTS of a PATHOGEN

RIGHT ENVIRONMENT.


Most Triangles will have the Susceptible Host at the top because that is the most important factor. The presents of microbes is a given because as Microbiology tells us everything is every where. Environment for microbes is ever present and we can predict out break of disease by the time of year in many cases.

But it is the SUSCEPTIBLE HOST that plays the biggest part in disease because just like strong healthy human who don't get sick or don't stay sick and recover quickly, Plant do also.

bugsNbows
04-18-2011, 04:15 PM
Greendoctor

One of the the sure fire causes of Take All is Turf under stress. Let us go back to the basics of the disease triangle.

SUSCEPTIBLE HOST,

PRESENTS of a PATHOGEN

RIGHT ENVIRONMENT.


Most Triangles will have the Susceptible Host at the top because that is the most important factor. The presents of microbes is a given because as Microbiology tells us everything is every where. Environment for microbes is ever present and we can predict out break of disease by the time of year in many cases.

But it is the SUSCEPTIBLE HOST that plays the biggest part in disease because just like strong healthy human who don't get sick or don't stay sick and recover quickly, Plant do also.

PRESENTS OF A PATHOGEN? How about Presence of a pathogen?
Your statements are very true. With our back-to-back rough winters, the St. Augustine grass has been weakened and thus more susceptible to pathogen attacks. Additionally, we are seeing much more nematode activity in St. Augustine around here. That also contributes to unhealthy roots / tops.

Ric
04-18-2011, 05:03 PM
PRESENTS OF A PATHOGEN? How about Presence of a pathogen? Your statements are very true. With our back-to-back rough winters, the St. Augustine grass has been weakened and thus more susceptible to pathogen attacks. Additionally, we are seeing much more nematode activity in St. Augustine around here. That also contributes to unhealthy roots / tops.

Bugs

You are not reading my state about Microbiology or have never studied Microbiology. Microbes of all types are present everywhere and are in fact the largest population of life forms on the Planet. When you think of life on other planets remember Microbes. Gaeumannomyces, graminis, graminis (Ggg) which is the Microbe that cause Take All is no different. It just might not be in high concentration or large population until it finds a Susceptible Host that allows if to increase population. The Mycelium that grows on top of the turf, that is typical of Ggg is in fact a reproductive process.

bug-guy
04-18-2011, 05:20 PM
the reason i asked about TARR is here it seems that when ever grass dies off the extension blames TARR! could it be that the chinch bugs, winter damage, drought or whatever. so what came first the stress or the fungus (i'm pretty sure it was the stress) for years grass under stress has died and no mention of TARR.

next how to correct the damage? i have read that TARR can not survive under 6.5 PH, by what ever means you use to lower ph as/fert, sulfer or acidic peat moss.
and what about preventable herbicide apps and when

bugsNbows
04-18-2011, 05:20 PM
Bugs

You are not reading my state about Microbiology or have never studied Microbiology. Microbes of all types are present everywhere and are in fact the largest population of life forms on the Planet. When you think of life on other planets remember Microbes. Gaeumannomyces, graminis, graminis (Ggg) which is the Microbe that cause Take All is no different. It just might not be in high concentration or large population until it finds a Susceptible Host that allows if to increase population. The Mycelium that grows on top of the turf, that is typical of Ggg is in fact a reproductive process.

Ric, perhaps you misunderstood my post:
1) I was raggin' your azz for using the word presents rather than presence
2) I was agreeing with your microbiological assessment
3) I was adding relevant information that factors in to disease incidence.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Ric

Ric
04-18-2011, 06:15 PM
Ric, perhaps you misunderstood my post:
1) I was raggin' your azz for using the word presents rather than presence
2) I was agreeing with your microbiological assessment
3) I was adding relevant information that factors in to disease incidence.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Ric


Bugs

English is not my first language so I make many mistake that I am not aware of.

bugsNbows
04-18-2011, 08:12 PM
Fair enough. I was just messin' with ya. LOL.

lawnguy26
05-12-2011, 05:50 PM
Bug-guy - yes you are correct. the extension is always diagnosing tarr when the actuall problem is drought, chinchbugs etc. i've been on many estimates where the homeowner told me the extension told him he had tarr while im watching chinchbugs crawling around the sidewalk or looking at severe drought. they're just finding evidence of tarr under their microscopes when the actuall problem is something else.

Before last year I never had to treat a lawn for tarr. last year i had abouth 30. i blamed it on the hard winter and the abnormal rainfall in my area. we would go two/three weeks with no rain and then get 4 inches in two days but i also think improper fertilization played a part too. last year i went with low nitroge/low fertility program to prevent chinch bugs and fungus. it backfired big time. i now think that was a huge contributing factor to my tarr problems. this year i am back to my 1 pound of N every other month with proper K and other nutrients and my lawns are doing great with no problems. although i'll let you know in september how i did with the tarr because it didn't hit me last year till july. im not forseeing any problems with it though. Im using more ammonium sulfate this time of year and Im doing more pH corrctions this year and actually applying 0-0-0-90 which i've never done before. I'm already seeing great improvements with chlorosis problems with the added sulfur.

greendoctor
05-13-2011, 01:45 AM
I for one do not ever buy into the idea that starving a lawn is the magical cure for diseases and pests. I have found it true that feeding a lawn nothing but slow release or 100% soluble urea is troublesome. In the case of the season long fertilizer granules, there is way more urea nitrogen than K and micronutrients. That kind of feeding program bombs on me in many ways. Not to mention, most of my lawns are cut extremely short with a reel mower weekly unless they are st augustine or centipede. What has worked extremely well is spoon feeding monthly with a 2:1 N:K, nitrogen sourced from ammonium sulfate, K from potassium nitrate and a high Fe/Mn micronutrient blend. I have to batch blend this. My target rates start at 1/2 lb N per month. I notice in Florida, many fertilizers are formulated more to placate the tree hugging, crunchy granola eating, anti lawn dictators and not what the grass needs. I do not like to see these queer analysis blends that do not supply enough N, but are full of potassium chloride. Is your soil not salty enough?

krlc
05-14-2011, 07:06 PM
Bug-guy - yes you are correct. the extension is always diagnosing tarr when the actuall problem is drought, chinchbugs etc. i've been on many estimates where the homeowner told me the extension told him he had tarr while im watching chinchbugs crawling around the sidewalk or looking at severe drought. they're just finding evidence of tarr under their microscopes when the actuall problem is something else.

Before last year I never had to treat a lawn for tarr. last year i had abouth 30. i blamed it on the hard winter and the abnormal rainfall in my area. we would go two/three weeks with no rain and then get 4 inches in two days but i also think improper fertilization played a part too. last year i went with low nitroge/low fertility program to prevent chinch bugs and fungus. it backfired big time. i now think that was a huge contributing factor to my tarr problems. this year i am back to my 1 pound of N every other month with proper K and other nutrients and my lawns are doing great with no problems. although i'll let you know in september how i did with the tarr because it didn't hit me last year till july. im not forseeing any problems with it though. Im using more ammonium sulfate this time of year and Im doing more pH corrctions this year and actually applying 0-0-0-90 which i've never done before. I'm already seeing great improvements with chlorosis problems with the added sulfur.

lawnguy26...are you applying the elemental sulphur to StAugustine? I read that it could only be applied to centipede....:confused:

lawnguy26
05-15-2011, 09:42 AM
lawnguy26...are you applying the elemental sulphur to StAugustine? I read that it could only be applied to centipede....:confused:

I applied it to about 15 lawns six-eight weeks ago. No problems!

Ric
05-15-2011, 10:00 AM
lawnguy26...are you applying the elemental sulphur to StAugustine? I read that it could only be applied to centipede....:confused:

Kric

Where you are missing the point is:: Sulfur is being applied to the Soil not the Turf type. Sulfur helps clean exchange sites of salt and also lowers pH. Water front properties that get Salt Spray have a salt Build up. St Augustine is some what salt Tolerant but Sulfur helps to keep St Augustine growing in unfavorable conditions.