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meets1
04-19-2011, 08:38 PM
Seen the new T870 - dealer had one that was being trasported elsewhere I happen to be there at the time. Being it was on the trailer - I did look it over. That is a big skid! I never heard or asked about price or fuel eating properties that thing would take but man thats just big.

Heck thats like mini dozer - like a mini ex, or toro dingo, heck why not a mini dozer!

Digdeep
04-19-2011, 09:07 PM
It's a real big machine! But it doesn't make any sense to me, kinda like when Bobcat came out with the 963. Compared to the T320 the T870 basically gained over 3000lbs, 5" width, no more pump flow, same engine displacement and only 7hp more. It's actually got a weight to hp ratio that is 20% worse than the T320.
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meets1
04-19-2011, 10:54 PM
Didnt know the spec's but either way its a big machine.

bobcat_ron
04-19-2011, 11:53 PM
But it's bigger and shinier, it's the American way.

stuvecorp
04-20-2011, 12:29 AM
I got the new Worksaver and there was an article about the T870, it looked really big. I think at that point, why not have a regular track loader? (happy OZZ? :waving:)

bobcat_ron
04-20-2011, 09:22 AM
Go to Youtube and look for a user named 1man2know, he's a local here in the Valley, he's sporting his new T870, it's not that impressive.
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Digdeep
04-20-2011, 10:04 AM
Go to Youtube and look for a user named 1man2know, he's a local here in the Valley, he's sporting his new T870, it's not that impressive.
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I don't see how anyone would think it would be considering the size of that machine. It's engine hp only increases 7% over the T320 and the machine weight increases almost 25%. With a peak engine torque of around 240lb ft and that kind of weight increase, the T320 looks much more attractive. You also don't get anymore reach and a turning radius that is increased about 15%. Basically, you'd be buying that machine for the lift height, and unless you're using an auger to put in pilings I don't really see the advantage. However, it is a big machine!

meets1
04-20-2011, 10:08 AM
Speaking of big machine america way what is the big price tag? Never asked the dealer and haven't seen it mentioned here yet?

stuvecorp
04-20-2011, 01:53 PM
Speaking of big machine america way what is the big price tag? Never asked the dealer and haven't seen it mentioned here yet?

I'm slightly curious on the price but am sure it's a cringe-worthy number...

SellingIron
04-20-2011, 02:30 PM
Plain T870 with 84" bucket: $68,309.00

Digdeep
04-20-2011, 03:19 PM
Plain T870 with 84" bucket: $68,309.00

Is that open ROPS, or does it include one of the "A31/51/71/91" packages?

YellowDogSVC
04-20-2011, 04:52 PM
I don't see how anyone would think it would be considering the size of that machine. It's engine hp only increases 7% over the T320 and the machine weight increases almost 25%. With a peak engine torque of around 240lb ft and that kind of weight increase, the T320 looks much more attractive. You also don't get anymore reach and a turning radius that is increased about 15%. Basically, you'd be buying that machine for the lift height, and unless you're using an auger to put in pilings I don't really see the advantage. However, it is a big machine!

Based on specs alone and what I know my s330 can do, I think the 700 series will be the winners in the line up. I too, thought the 800 was unnecessarily heavy and wide.

Digdeep
04-20-2011, 05:01 PM
Based on specs alone and what I know my s330 can do, I think the 700 series will be the winners in the line up. I too, thought the 800 was unnecessarily heavy and wide.

The 700 series makes much more sense.

SellingIron
04-20-2011, 05:16 PM
Is that open ROPS, or does it include one of the "A31/51/71/91" packages?


Plain means open cab no package.

Open cab packages available:No package /051/071

A31=$4029.00
A51=$4549.00
A71=$5749.00
A91=$9319.00

The machine will have its place. The customers I'm quoting do alot of heavy lifting and move alot of dirt.

Now a days customers are not going to have much of a choice when buying equipment. You can wait 3 to 4 months, buy what is on order or on the lot. Between rental houses getting machines, vendors not ready for orders or Japans Tsunami, todays market is up in the air.

Can't confirm this but I heard that Takeuchi won't be able to fill orders until the 2nd quarter of next year..

Digdeep
04-20-2011, 05:50 PM
Plain means open cab no package.

Open cab packages available:No package /051/071

A31=$4029.00
A51=$4549.00
A71=$5749.00
A91=$9319.00

The machine will have its place. The customers I'm quoting do alot of heavy lifting and move alot of dirt.

Now a days customers are not going to have much of a choice when buying equipment. You can wait 3 to 4 months, buy what is on order or on the lot. Between rental houses getting machines, vendors not ready for orders or Japans Tsunami, todays market is up in the air.

Can't confirm this but I heard that Takeuchi won't be able to fill orders until the 2nd quarter of next year..

I can definitely understand the heavy lifting piece, but I can't see how the larger 88" bucket really moves more dirt for the price of the larger machine considering the larger bucket only holds 1.8cu ft more dirt heaped compared to a 80" T320 bucket.

At 120lbs a cubic foot for average density it only equals 216lbs more. Unless a guy bought a much bigger bucket, but i don't think Bobcat has gone bigger than 88".

The news about Takeuchi would not shock me. They have had a serious crisis. For that matter, I think everyone is probably impacted somewhat.

YellowDogSVC
04-20-2011, 07:10 PM
I can definitely understand the heavy lifting piece, but I can't see how the larger 88" bucket really moves more dirt for the price of the larger machine considering the larger bucket only holds 1.8cu ft more dirt heaped compared to a 80" T320 bucket.

At 120lbs a cubic foot for average density it only equals 216lbs more. Unless a guy bought a much bigger bucket, but i don't think Bobcat has gone bigger than 88".

The news about Takeuchi would not shock me. They have had a serious crisis. For that matter, I think everyone is probably impacted somewhat.

I imagine a lot of components for a lot of machines have some part made in Japan's high tech centers. Hopefully, other areas can fill the orders and keep everyone moving.
What happened in Japan sucks but if any country can deal with it, they can and I imagine some pretty awesome videos and clean up stories are going to come out of tragedy.

If Tak and Kubota are offline in some markets, hopefully the Koreans will send Bobcats and other heavy equipment. I imagine there isn't anything sitting idle between normal activities and clean up. The only good thing that will come out of this is a demand for machinery, parts, lumber, etc., which will spur growth in a lot of areas in the Asian markets and that should bleed into our markets too but I could be wrong.

SellingIron
04-20-2011, 07:33 PM
Dig, Your average customer does not come into a dealership with questions of 120lbs a cubic foot for average density it only equals X Y to Z. You know what I mean... I only see the more technical questions asked and challenged on this forum.

They want to have a quality product ( Bobcat does a great job at this considering how many machines they produce a year) Good service/parts department and salesman thats going to answer the phone. Where am I going with this.:confused::confused:

Like Ron was saying bigger is better, its the American way.. They get caught up in the new design, look, biggest made. (First in Class in all categories :laugh::laugh:). Don't try this with your bobcat Kool-Aide videos.. I've have been selling for over 10 years and have never had a customer questioning me about engine torque, breakeout forces etc etc.


Yellow, With Kubota making engines for alot of other vendors, it can only hurt. I wonder if this will speed things up with Doosan and there engine division. I know with T4 around the corner, I have heard of some crazy ideas for power plants and emissions issues..

Digdeep
04-20-2011, 07:48 PM
Dig, Your average customer does not come into a dealership with questions of 120lbs a cubic foot for average density it only equals X Y to Z. You know what I mean... I only see the more technical questions asked and challenged on this forum.

They want to have a quality product ( Bobcat does a great job at this considering how many machines they produce a year) Good service/parts department and salesman thats going to answer the phone. Where am I going with this.:confused::confused:

Like Ron was saying bigger is better, its the American way.. They get caught up in the new design, look, biggest made. (First in Class in all categories :laugh::laugh:). Don't try this with your bobcat Kool-Aide videos.. I've have been selling for over 10 years and have never had a customer questioning me about engine torque, breakeout forces etc etc.


Yellow, With Kubota making engines for alot of other vendors, it can only hurt. I wonder if this will speed things up with Doosan and there engine division. I know with T4 around the corner, I have heard of some crazy ideas for power plants and emissions issues..

Don't get me wrong...I like looking and getting caught up in cool stuff too..nothing wrong with that.

However, I think there is a definite trend developing with customers with so much information available to them on the internet. The proof is all the customers on this very site asking about breakouts, torque, fuel consumption, etc.

I can support this assertion further with the fact that Bobcat is even getting caught up in it with their new videos talking about this much more % pressurization, this many more yards of dirt in xx cycles, this much more cooling, etc. The economy, fuel price increases, oncoming inflation, and the future costs associated with buying Tier IV machines all add further to the complexity of our industry. Customers want to know how the different OEMs are going to stretch or save their $$$$. I don't think just buying a brand or watching "kool-aid" videos is going to suffice much longer.

And I completely agree with you about a dealer that offers good support and a salesman that will answer the phone. That will never change.

stuvecorp
04-20-2011, 07:50 PM
Plain T870 with 84" bucket: $68,309.00

Yep, I did cringe.

Plain means open cab no package.

Open cab packages available:No package /051/071

A31=$4029.00
A51=$4549.00
A71=$5749.00
A91=$9319.00

The machine will have its place. The customers I'm quoting do alot of heavy lifting and move alot of dirt.

Now a days customers are not going to have much of a choice when buying equipment. You can wait 3 to 4 months, buy what is on order or on the lot. Between rental houses getting machines, vendors not ready for orders or Japans Tsunami, todays market is up in the air.

Can't confirm this but I heard that Takeuchi won't be able to fill orders until the 2nd quarter of next year..

I agree there is a niche but it can't be that big? As for equipment, I still think there is too much equipment out there right now and unless a guy needs a specific or special machine why not get a late model low hour machine? To be honest I have '08 and '09 equipment that each has around 300 hours and the way stuff looks now I would sell everything off in a heartbeat.

TomG
04-20-2011, 08:24 PM
Here are a few pictures of the new Bobcat T870 that I took at the HNA and GIE+E expo in Louisville Kentucky a while back. These are the only pictures I have, i wasn't supposed to take pictures of it. :drinkup:You guys are correct on the price I believe the sticker said it was around $70,000!! I got to sit in the machine and the cab has a ton of room in it and it was very comfortable and nicely laid out, the M series cabs are nice. I didn't like how there was so much engine behind the cab though. When your sitting in the machine it seamed like there was 5ft from you to the back of the machine. I guess you would get used to it. I have a T300 and this machine felt A LOT bigger. Unfortunately Bobcat didn't have this machine in the outdoor demo area so I didn't get to try it out.

meets1
04-20-2011, 08:41 PM
WOW! $70 grand for a skid!! Whats next.

ksss
04-20-2011, 09:59 PM
[QUOTE=SellingIron;3996201]Dig, Your average customer does not come into a dealership with questions of 120lbs a cubic foot for average density it only equals X Y to Z. You know what I mean... I only see the more technical questions asked and challenged on this forum.

I've have been selling for over 10 years and have never had a customer questioning me about engine torque, breakeout forces etc etc.

/QUOTE]


Maybe the average BC customer just isn't as sharp as he should be? :cool2:


I am only joking BC customers! He floated that one across home and someone had to hit it.

Premier Landscaping
04-21-2011, 02:04 AM
Yep, I did cringe.



I agree there is a niche but it can't be that big? As for equipment, I still think there is too much equipment out there right now and unless a guy needs a specific or special machine why not get a late model low hour machine? To be honest I have '08 and '09 equipment that each has around 300 hours and the way stuff looks now I would sell everything off in a heartbeat.


I just was hoping to find a low hour machine 252 or 262 equiped with the options I need for a reasonable price and could not find one, so I ended up getting another new one. Everything I found with cab, heat, ac, 2 speed, hydraulic quick coupler was within 6-8 thousand of a new one which came with a 3 year 3000 hour warranty so it wasn't worth it to me. I thought I would be able to fine one 800 hours or so for 10-12 k less then a new one somewhere, but had no luck.

stuvecorp
04-21-2011, 02:42 AM
I just was hoping to find a low hour machine 252 or 262 equiped with the options I need for a reasonable price and could not find one, so I ended up getting another new one. Everything I found with cab, heat, ac, 2 speed, hydraulic quick coupler was within 6-8 thousand of a new one which came with a 3 year 3000 hour warranty so it wasn't worth it to me. I thought I would be able to fine one 800 hours or so for 10-12 k less then a new one somewhere, but had no luck.

I suppose the hours aren't on the machines so everyone is asking a lot. Then with a good warranty and the possibility of a good financing that can push things to a new one.

I was thinking for example of my Mustang MTL16, a new one is $40,000 but I'm at $26,000 and only have 305 hours on it? My TK mini is priced $15,000 less than a new one? I think there is 'sweet-spots' on pricing and demand.

SellingIron
04-21-2011, 08:55 AM
[QUOTE=SellingIron;3996201]Dig, Your average customer does not come into a dealership with questions of 120lbs a cubic foot for average density it only equals X Y to Z. You know what I mean... I only see the more technical questions asked and challenged on this forum.

I've have been selling for over 10 years and have never had a customer questioning me about engine torque, breakeout forces etc etc.

/QUOTE]


Maybe the average BC customer just isn't as sharp as he should be? :cool2:


I am only joking BC customers! He floated that one across home and someone had to hit it.


Thats not the reason. It's because bobcat owners are to busy working while case owners are sitting at home on the computers looking up specs..:laugh:

Had to defend it KSSS..

swanny
04-21-2011, 09:22 AM
Bobcat did a nice job designing this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bobcat-track-driven-dump-bed-transporter-MUST-SEE-/150594826927?pt=Skid_Steel_Loaders&hash=item231026b2af

meets1
04-22-2011, 12:00 AM
At the BC dealer and he had the T750 - sold to a dairy farmer. That machine I sat in and just thought - wow another high priced big piece of iron! This t750 is also a good size machine. He didn't say price as he was busy but just love getting into the back of the shop to see who is buying what and just looking!

SellingIron
04-22-2011, 12:23 AM
at the bc dealer and he had the t750 - sold to a dairy farmer. That machine i sat in and just thought - wow another high priced big piece of iron! This t750 is also a good size machine. He didn't say price as he was busy but just love getting into the back of the shop to see who is buying what and just looking!

wtf.......

meets1
04-22-2011, 11:23 AM
sellingiron - your thoughts are wtf??

That always a good thought to have I guess.

shooterm
04-24-2011, 09:02 PM
I think there will be a market for these machines because your average construction laborer can run a track skidder but have little luck on a dozer. I'm seeing it now with our downsized company. The few operators we have our either running the jobs or running other priority gear. Even though we know a dozer is a more practical peice of equipment. It sounds silly but we've replaced backfilling dozer with a CTL for this reason on most of our pipejobs. Takes a act of gawd to bring out the dozers lately.

Digdeep
04-24-2011, 09:37 PM
I think there will be a market for these machines because your average construction laborer can run a track skidder but have little luck on a dozer. I'm seeing it now with our downsized company. The few operators we have our either running the jobs or running other priority gear. Even though we know a dozer is a more practical peice of equipment. It sounds silly but we've replaced backfilling dozer with a CTL for this reason on most of our pipejobs. Takes a act of gawd to bring out the dozers lately.

I don't think its a stretch for any CTL from 80hp and up to effectively backfill trenches...good application. They actually do pretty well with a Grouser dozer blade on them as long as nobody expects to doze hard pan.

BTW...I was talking to my buddy at the Bobcat dealership yesterday and he's heard that Bobcat is discontinuing their steel undercarriage because of reliability and wear issues. Has anyone heard anything on this?
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bobcat_ron
04-24-2011, 09:40 PM
BTW...I was talking to my buddy at the Bobcat dealership yesterday and he's heard that Bobcat is discontinuing their steel undercarriage because of reliability and wear issues. Has anyone heard anything on this?
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Wouldn't surprise me, the machines are probably beat to death and local dentist offices are also benefiting, but I bet the track links themselves are poor quality, maybe that's why so many mini excavators are sold with rubber tracks.

Digdeep
04-24-2011, 09:45 PM
Wouldn't surprise me, the machines are probably beat to death and local dentist offices are also benefiting, but I bet the track links themselves are poor quality, maybe that's why so many mini excavators are sold with rubber tracks.

I don't think the T870 or T770 is going to fare too well either with a two speed option that goes up to 10.7mph. Those sprockets will be thrashed, especially if the operator spends much time going backwards in high gear.
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Ozz
04-24-2011, 11:06 PM
There's just one purpose for this machine... Tree contractors. Just a little bit bigger than a T320, but picks up more and can still run high flow attachment. More lift= less cuts=less time, smaller pieces and less saw use.

Think about it this way; what if a guy like me (tree and forestry is 25-40% of my work) could get a saw like a 390/395 Husky or 660 Stihl (bleah) to last two years, instead of one. I've got three, and they cost me 1.8-2 Gs a piece to buy, then set up. That's a $1200 saw, 300 dollar hop up mods, $200 bars/tips, and $300 worth of chains in a year. That's 60 Benjamins saved in a two-year period. Some tree guys have more in sawing gear than that.

Just a thought. I know that's not entirely realistic, but just a thought.

SellingIron
04-25-2011, 08:08 PM
I don't think the T870 or T770 is going to fare too well either with a two speed option that goes up to 10.7mph. Those sprockets will be thrashed, especially if the operator spends much time going backwards in high gear.
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Time will tell, Bobcats had them in the field for over a year now. Its funny I seen three different listings for speed on the machine now. 10.7, 11.4, and 12.3..

Digdeep
04-25-2011, 09:33 PM
Time will tell, Bobcats had them in the field for over a year now. Its funny I seen three different listings for speed on the machine now. 10.7, 11.4, and 12.3..

I guess a guy would have to gps one if he got a chance. In any case, they're all fast regardless of which one it is. And, the machie loks like a lifting beast.

Time will tell; however, I think there is a reason why dozers don't go 10mph+, or a reason why rental houses and many fleet owners disable the high speed reverse. Throw in the fact that the track and sprocket don't even have the benefit of a pin and bushing to minimize wear between the sprocket segments. I think it will be interesting to hear feedback from my buddies at the bobcat dealership.

Have you heard any truth to the fact that Bobcat is dropping their steel track option due to excessive wear (too much speed) and reliability issues? I heard it from a typically very dependable source in the Bobcat system.

SellingIron
04-25-2011, 10:03 PM
Trying to find out now on the steel tracks. I have been in a few bobcats witht the steel track setup. Loud with a rough ride.

When we get a 2-speed in stock. I will GPS it to see how fast she runs. I like how the single speed (work mode) will be 7 mph will an extra gear to go even faster.

shooterm
04-25-2011, 10:41 PM
I don't think its a stretch for any CTL from 80hp and up to effectively backfill trenches...good application. They actually do pretty well with a Grouser dozer blade on them as long as nobody expects to doze hard pan.

BTW...I was talking to my buddy at the Bobcat dealership yesterday and he's heard that Bobcat is discontinuing their steel undercarriage because of reliability and wear issues. Has anyone heard anything on this?
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They work good but personally I think we're beat the crap out of them. The oldest one we have ,in a brand I dont like, is reaching 1.5k hours and its trashed. On a sidenote I almost lost one today in a stockpile of flood silt. Pocket opened up under me and I was lucky to push off solid clay I was pushing.

bobcat_ron
04-25-2011, 11:45 PM
I GPS'ed my brother's 277C, 14.5 km/h, my eyeballs still hurt from being slammed to the back of my skull.

It was orgasmicly awesome.

SellingIron
04-26-2011, 01:51 PM
Bobcat to have a price increase, enjoy:drinkup:

Digdeep
04-26-2011, 03:08 PM
Bobcat to have a price increase, enjoy:drinkup:

This must be the Pre-Tier IV price increase :)

All joking aside, I'm sure the others will follow given the cost of rubber, steel and the freight associated with fuel cost increases. Beer prices just went up too due to shipping, which means that milk, meat, produce and all other edibles less important than beer will be going up too. :drinkup:

JDSKIDSTEER
04-26-2011, 03:23 PM
Bobcat to have a price increase, enjoy:drinkup:

Deere too. Don't feel bad.:hammerhead:

Skidsteerman
04-30-2011, 12:09 PM
Steel cost is going crazy also and being past along with the MFG cost. My understanding is MFG's can't lock in steel lot pricing like they used to:confused:

FYI - some steel track stuff for ya to see.

Deere's test mule a couple years before Bobcats test mule showed up. Deere shelved the idea after the vibration broke their (can't remember the technical name anymore) vibration testing machine.:eek::(

CT332

219811

Bobcat's T300 Steel track test mule, I operated this thing a little bit on a job site and it was extremely rough to say the least. Their machine wouldn't stay together, but I don't know if that was all due to the steel tracks - sorry couldn't help that one sellingiron:laugh:

219812