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jlouki01
04-27-2011, 10:30 AM
Had a job we have been working on for the last couple of months refuse some LEDS.

We wanted to use some LED hardscape lights from Kichler without the hardscape mount as under railing mounted. Customer refused them because of the light output color.

I agreed they were really white. When I tested some before hand the light seemed a little more yellow and warm. Once installed he was not happy with them at all.

Back to the drawing board I guess.

Illumicare
04-27-2011, 09:34 PM
Not all LED fixtures or lamps are 'equal'. This is where you need to get the full specifications, photometrics and spectral analysis information from the manufacturer in order to choose the right product that will offer you the output, colour and effect you are looking for. All too often LED products are labeled simply as "warm white". Unfortunately one company's 'warm white' is considerably different than another company's. This becomes particularly problematic when you start mixing LED fixtures from different manufacturers into one lighting system. 3000K here, 3300K there and a couple of 4000K in the wrong place and you quickly have a rather strange looking system.

Understanding the correlated color temperature (CCT) is critical in most applications. If you are looking for an LED product that will emulate the warm glow of an incandescent or xenon lamp, you will need to find something in around 2700K. If you want to emulate the colour of a quality halogen lamp, then 3000K is what you need. The difference of just 300k is noticeable to most people, and those with a critical eye can generally see slight variances of 100K to 200K

Your situation might lend itself well to picking the appropriate 'traditional' fixtures and then relying upon LED lamps rather than looking to integrated LED fixtures for a solution. At least with traditional fixtures you can change lamp intensities and colour temperatures to suit the client's tastes. As more LED lamps become available in a wider array of intensities and colour temperatures, you will be able to convert the entire system to LED and keep a single cohesive look across the entire system.

Jb3NH
04-27-2011, 10:59 PM
what sort of technical information is available with your led fixtures? wattage? lens angle? and or wavelength? I guess if you could pile that all together then with a similar bin all lights would look about right, then mixing and matching products shouldn't be a problem?

Illumicare
04-27-2011, 11:34 PM
what sort of technical information is available with your led fixtures? wattage? lens angle? and or wavelength? I guess if you could pile that all together then with a similar bin all lights would look about right, then mixing and matching products shouldn't be a problem?

Illumicare does not offer any type of LED fixtures. We design, engineer, manufacture and distribute a line of LED lamps that have been developed specificially for low voltage landscape lighting applications.

You can download our MR16 lamp specifications here: http://www.illumicaregroup.com/2010/10/mr16-gu5-3-gx5-3/ and you can find our miniature lamp specifications here: http://www.illumicaregroup.com/2010/09/led-scb/

Our specification sheets will give you a good idea of the type of information you should be looking for in order to make informed decisions about LED products.

If you have any specific application or technical questions, please do not hesitate to contact us directly.

Regards

Jb3NH
04-28-2011, 09:16 AM
Excellent, since my 6th grade science fair i've been interested in LEDs (nasa has been doing some groundbreaking stuff.. such as healing bone faster with specific light wavelengths) They've come a long way, and my last comment may have not applied specifically to this particular application.

Thanks for the info

jlouki01
05-01-2011, 09:03 PM
These were pretty white.. i wouldn't go as far as saying warm either. None the less I was pretty excited to install them only to be shot down..

sprinkler guy
04-24-2012, 11:57 PM
Tru-scapes,

I found this thread doing a search, looking for a solution to the same problem you had when you posted this thread. I've used the 15745 before, with good results. After looking at some of the previous jobs, I found that all of the stone or hardscape the fixtures were near was a dark color, which helped mute the bright white of the LEDs. The application I'm struggling with is a very light stone. The lights are placed under the edge of several of the steps. The LEDs show as very bright white dots on the surface. Kichler says they are not dimmable. I was going to look into creating a glass filter, maybe a yellow or amber color, frosted, or etched to create a spread effect. I have (16) installed, and the rest of the job is lost in this clients frustration with the "runway lights".

What did you ultimately do?

Lite4
04-25-2012, 12:28 AM
I used kichlers hardscape lights once, but never again. Way too way and the light is not focused so you see the bright spots from each LED on the stone, tacky. Had a bad experience with kichler LEDs last week too. The more I see them the less I like them.

indylights
04-25-2012, 01:47 PM
Like Tim, I used the Kichler hardscape lights once, key word being once. All you see is a bunch of dots, and it's even worse if the material is wet. Cast hardscape lights give really good color and beam spread, and I'm sure some other guys can recommend some other brands as well.

Scott Maloney
Sunflower Landscapes

S&MLL
04-25-2012, 02:10 PM
Just pull it off a tad bit and the dots go away. Kichler wall light is the best bang for buck imho. Integral leds fixture price is a joke.
Posted via Mobile Device

jana
04-25-2012, 03:40 PM
Cast Wall Light

Lite4
04-25-2012, 06:53 PM
Just pull it off a tad bit and the dots go away. Kichler wall light is the best bang for buck imho. Integral leds fixture price is a joke.
Posted via Mobile Device

I shouldn't have too! Other manufacturers have created fixtures with diffusers. Just goes back to what I have always said about kichler, they are designed and produced for the mass market homeowners, not for the professional lighting guy. They're fixture designers couldn't care less about the pros opinions on how to improve they're products from what I have seen. JMO of course, I am sure that I will get lambasted by the die-hard kichler guys in here. They're products by and large seem chinsy and overpriced to me.

The Lighting Geek
04-25-2012, 08:27 PM
now, now Tim. lol

irrig8r
04-25-2012, 09:51 PM
I was looking at a display of FX's Lumineux LED fixtures today at Ewing and took a couple of them apart.

Cool looking optics, and one thing I noticed was kind of amber lenses on uplights and washlights, and an amber mirrored cone reflector in the pathlights.

Not sure if these reduce light output, but it seemed like it the amber tint might be a way to deal with cooler white LEDs.

Looking at their catalog just now, that's exactly how they use the filters. They claim the amber gives CCT of 2900K, they also have frosted, green and blue filters.

Zohan
04-25-2012, 10:40 PM
Just pull it off a tad bit and the dots go away. Kichler wall light is the best bang for buck imho. Integral leds fixture price is a joke.
Posted via Mobile Device

What do you mean by pull it off a tad bit?

S&MLL
04-25-2012, 11:16 PM
I shouldn't have too! Other manufacturers have created fixtures with diffusers. Just goes back to what I have always said about kichler, they are designed and produced for the mass market homeowners, not for the professional lighting guy. They're fixture designers couldn't care less about the pros opinions on how to improve they're products from what I have seen. JMO of course, I am sure that I will get lambasted by the die-hard kichler guys in here. They're products by and large seem chinsy and overpriced to me.

To each their own. Im not a diehard kichler contractor. Im just a diehard lighting contractor
Posted via Mobile Device

S&MLL
04-25-2012, 11:17 PM
What do you mean by pull it off a tad bit?

If you have enough lip pull the fixture off the wall... even a half inch cuts down on the dot look. If you ride the wall the leds stand out
Posted via Mobile Device

Zohan
04-26-2012, 08:06 AM
got it....

irrig8r
04-27-2012, 10:46 AM
I was looking at a display of FX's Lumineux LED fixtures today at Ewing and took a couple of them apart.

Cool looking optics, and one thing I noticed was kind of amber lenses on uplights and washlights, and an amber mirrored cone reflector in the pathlights.

Not sure if these reduce light output, but it seemed like it the amber tint might be a way to deal with cooler white LEDs.

Looking at their catalog just now, that's exactly how they use the filters. They claim the amber gives CCT of 2900K, they also have frosted, green and blue filters.

I was kind of hoping to get a reply to this. Thoughts about color filters vs. phosphor coating? Which is going to hold up better over time?

http://www.fxl.com/products/documents/1303315231991997.pdf

New thread maybe.

irrig8r
04-27-2012, 10:52 AM
posting error

djt22
04-27-2012, 10:47 PM
http://www.vistapro.com/Product.aspx?ProdID=461&CatID=1&typeID=5 have had great sucess with these can be ordered in warm or cool...