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Paineless Creations
05-01-2011, 11:11 AM
I've done a lot of measurements and need to lay down 37 yds. of medium river rock in an apartment complex. There are many areas between each unit, so not all one large area (many small areas).

I've been asked to just lay the rock over whatever is there now-most places it's mulch or even bare dirt. I will weed out the big stuff and spray first, but will not be laying down weed barrier cloth.

I have to park out in the parking area/lot, shovel the rock into a small dump trailer that pulls behind my lawn mower, then go in through the gate to each area that needs rock laid down. I can dump it there, since it's a dump trailer, on the larger areas, but there are many small areas that I will have to hand shovel and spread out of the dump trailer.

Hopefully I've given a good idea of the task. What I need to know is:

How many man hours per yard (approx.) will it take to lay and spread the stuff down since I've not done this type of work before. I know my labor rate, just want to get an idea of the time needed.

I will be making multiple trips to pick up rock over time since I can't have it delivered in a large load as there is no place to keep it. I can carry 2-3 yds at one time if I fill my truck AND trailer, but was thinking I would only use the trailer since it's easier to get it off that and into the dump trailer. So I can take maybe 1 or 1/2 yds. in the trailer. Anything else I need to consider here for the bid?

Thanks so much!

Raymond S.
05-01-2011, 12:21 PM
The first thing I would do is convince them to put down fabric. That's going to look pretty bad in a very short amount of time without fabric. As for time...that can vary dramatically. Without too much thought and not knowing the distances traveled, I'd just throw a stupid guess around 65 man hours. Shoveling to load your pull behind trailer then spreading is going to literally kill you. 2 guys I think would be able to average 10 yds/day figuring about 4 full 8hr days with the 4th day being cleanup as well. I could be off but if it were me I'd want to make damn sure my ass was covered. One thing you may consider is renting a mini skid to load the trailer or even to transport. Ever heard the phrase "dropped like a rock!" They say that because rocks are frickin heavy!!!
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Just noticed you said you were picking up the stone. Look into renting a dump trailer or try harder to find a spot to get it delivered. 37yds of stone won't take up much room. You're talking 4 dump truck loads, maybe a dozen parking spots?

lukemelo216
05-01-2011, 01:33 PM
I agree and what type of truck do you have? Yes a pickup can hold 2 yards of materials such as mulch, but rocks weigh a lot. I know that small river rock around 1/2" in size weighs about 1600lbs/yard, obviously the bigger the stone, the less material and greater weight.

I would look at trying to store that rock on site, and getting some sort of mini skid loader or something to load the stone and something like a power buggie or something. That way you can move the stone quicker, and dump it very easy. Those dump carts on tractors still need to be lifted and after about 5 or 6 times of shoveling and loading stone then lifting that box you will be exhauseted. I bid on a job for 13 yards of stone and I thinkin I figured it taking 2 guys about a day to do it and that was on site from 730 am until 530 or something. And its loading with a dingo with very minimal travel time to each dump spot.

Will P.C.
05-01-2011, 03:01 PM
Try to get some type of machine to help you. That is back breaking work.

lukemelo216
05-01-2011, 03:25 PM
It would be easier to unload from the truck. Put the wheel barrow, cart, or buggie under it and just take a heavy rake or something and pull it out. So yeah if you figure you can haul around 2 yards or so at the most probably (depending on your trailer size) means you will be making probably 20 trips the your supplier. That's a lot of wasted time. Figure your 15 minutes from your supplier. You most likely will be there at least 15 minutes (go in and order, wait for the guy to come and then actually load you up, then 15 minutes back). Then to spread that amount of material depending on distance your at another 1.5 hours. Daily your doing 8 yards, which means about 5 days on the job, so around 45 or 50 hours on it. Now that doesn't factor in longer distances from the truck, fatigue, etc. So probably 55-60 hours is good, but you could reduce that significantly if you get it delivered and use machines to assist you.
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lukemelo216
05-01-2011, 05:14 PM
It would be easier to unload from the truck. Put the wheel barrow, cart, or buggie under it and just take a heavy rake or something and pull it out. So yeah if you figure you can haul around 2 yards or so at the most probably (depending on your trailer size) means you will be making probably 20 trips the your supplier. That's a lot of wasted time. Figure your 15 minutes from your supplier. You most likely will be there at least 15 minutes (go in and order, wait for the guy to come and then actually load you up, then 15 minutes back). Then to spread that amount of material depending on distance your at another 1.5 hours. Daily your doing 8 yards, which means about 5 days on the job, so around 45 or 50 hours on it. Now that doesn't factor in longer distances from the truck, fatigue, etc. So probably 55-60 hours is good, but you could reduce that significantly if you get it delivered and use machines to assist you.
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P.Services
05-01-2011, 05:50 PM
My ears are starting to hurt just reading this thread! Any one else know what I mean.
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Smallaxe
05-01-2011, 06:28 PM
All that work, All that money, and in a year or two it will look like a rocky weedbed...
It's a shame...

Paineless Creations
05-01-2011, 11:56 PM
The first thing I would do is convince them to put down fabric. That's going to look pretty bad in a very short amount of time without fabric. As for time...that can vary dramatically. Without too much thought and not knowing the distances traveled, I'd just throw a stupid guess around 65 man hours. Shoveling to load your pull behind trailer then spreading is going to literally kill you. 2 guys I think would be able to average 10 yds/day figuring about 4 full 8hr days with the 4th day being cleanup as well. I could be off but if it were me I'd want to make damn sure my ass was covered. One thing you may consider is renting a mini skid to load the trailer or even to transport. Ever heard the phrase "dropped like a rock!" They say that because rocks are frickin heavy!!!
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Just noticed you said you were picking up the stone. Look into renting a dump trailer or try harder to find a spot to get it delivered. 37yds of stone won't take up much room. You're talking 4 dump truck loads, maybe a dozen parking spots?

Good suggestion-unloading from the truck-makes sense to me. I will be doing this job over time-a few hours each day, since I also work full time. There are no extra parking spots to store the rocks, plus since it will be over time, I'll only be getting one truck load each day. I can't bring in any type of loader or skid as it would damage the lawn. Also, the board is pretty cheap, I doubt there's any convincing them to let me lay down black cloth-this is also over top of existing beds-some with rocks, some with bark. May not be the ideal situation, but it's what they want.

Thanks to all who responded.

Smallaxe
05-02-2011, 02:07 AM
Good suggestion-unloading from the truck-makes sense to me. I will be doing this job over time-a few hours each day, since I also work full time. There are no extra parking spots to store the rocks, plus since it will be over time, I'll only be getting one truck load each day. I can't bring in any type of loader or skid as it would damage the lawn. Also, the board is pretty cheap, I doubt there's any convincing them to let me lay down black cloth-this is also over top of existing beds-some with rocks, some with bark. May not be the ideal situation, but it's what they want.

Thanks to all who responded.

You're still working fulltime elsewhere, building a reputation for yourself as a scaper... People are gonna look at this job as an experience but nonetheless a failure... not a good place to be...

That stone work is gonna be stony dirt in no time... You may want to help your reputation by saying you'll only do it if its right... that is a bad job in the first place... no one could afford to have me do 37 yds by wheelbarrow in les than 2 months... then to have it look like garbage in a couple of years...

I would stop and think... "What does this job really mean to me?"

Travel'n Trees
05-07-2011, 11:29 AM
Step up to black four mil plastic 35 years no weeds and no problems. instalation by dump truck by hand should be no more than a day I would use 4 guys. Good wheel barrels and air in tires. No two wheel crap axles will bend before first ten tons. Should make at least $3000 for a days work.
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