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View Full Version : where to start? Classes, Education, books???


jbo90423
05-03-2011, 09:39 PM
I am looking to start into hardscapes.... looking on where to begin? What classes, education, certifications are available to get started? I am extremely green and am just looking for some direction to get educated. Any input will be greatly appreciated.... Thanks in advance...

scagrider22
05-03-2011, 09:54 PM
Best way to learn is to work for other reputable hardscapers in your area. I would recommend working for at least two different companies for no less than two years.

jbo90423
05-03-2011, 10:31 PM
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jbo90423
05-03-2011, 10:35 PM
Yeah, I should have stated that before.... I own/operate a lawn and landscape business (mainly lawn work), so that option is probably not available.... Trust me I know the value of experience! Thanks though... Anyone else... Again thanks in advance.
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TomG
05-03-2011, 11:11 PM
ICPI and NCMA classes are some of the best to take, although they don't give you any hands on installation experience, they just give you the knowledge to do the installs.

http://www.icpi.org/
http://www.ncma.org/Pages/default.aspx

DVS Hardscaper
05-03-2011, 11:34 PM
you cut yards now?

And you want to do construction work?

Where is the corrilation? Heck, cutting hair is a closer corrilation to mowing yards than hardscapes is :)

Why didn't you be a brick/block/stone mason instead of a yard cutting guy?

scagrider22
05-04-2011, 12:19 AM
you cut yards now?

And you want to do construction work?

Where is the corrilation? Heck, cutting hair is a closer corrilation to mowing yards than hardscapes is :)

Why didn't you be a brick/block/stone mason instead of a yard cutting guy?

:laugh::laugh::laugh: Great analogy! To the OP if you can not go out and get hands on experience than I feel bad for your customers, you will most likely do some shoddy installs until you learn and it could take years for you to learn all the little time saving tricks that could be picked up in minutes working for somebody else. I started doing hardscapes first and then I added maintenance later because of the companies I was referring the maintenance work to started taking hardscape work from me.

jbo90423
05-04-2011, 01:40 AM
you cut yards now?

And you want to do construction work?

Where is the corrilation? Heck, cutting hair is a closer corrilation to mowing yards than hardscapes is :)

Why didn't you be a brick/block/stone mason instead of a yard cutting guy?

DVS, I have dealt with your kind for years, no surprise there. I am a retired KSP Trooper and have "cut yards" for the past 10 years. I do it because I enjoy it. I could care less about a "corrilation", or did you mean correlation? Seems like you should pay more attention to detail? And I think now I will do construction work and cut hair.... since you have nothing but negativity to contribute why don't you find another thread? I use to love meeting people like you....

jbo90423
05-04-2011, 01:43 AM
ICPI and NCMA classes are some of the best to take, although they don't give you any hands on installation experience, they just give you the knowledge to do the installs.

http://www.icpi.org/
http://www.ncma.org/Pages/default.aspx


Thanks for the info....

DVS Hardscaper
05-04-2011, 10:02 AM
DVS, I have dealt with your kind for years, no surprise there. I am a retired KSP Trooper and have "cut yards" for the past 10 years. I do it because I enjoy it. I could care less about a "corrilation", or did you mean correlation? Seems like you should pay more attention to detail? And I think now I will do construction work and cut hair.... since you have nothing but negativity to contribute why don't you find another thread? I use to love meeting people like you....

JBO - you obviously never worked up through the ranks of KSP. as you're not a good judge of character and you're apparently thinned skinned. Neither a good attribute for law enforcement.

My post is to instill thought. You don't wake up one day and decide to do something because it looks cool to do. Just like people do not wake up one day and decide they want to be a police officer. It a passion that is years and years in the making. Do a search on my user name and you will see if have maintained this stance for many many years.



I have many a friends and family in law enforcement. Yep out of the many, one that had their mowing service. and yep e en have one that did home improvements. Neither are any longer in business. That's not where their heart truly was. One of them still has their trailer setting on my land. They musta enjoyed meeting me too.

Go ahead, check out my posts.
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4Russl5
05-04-2011, 10:42 AM
Go work for a couple other hardscaper/landscaper companies for a few years. These guys are right. You have no clue about what mayhem you will create for yourself and clients in the landscape. Mowing experience does not equal experience for a landscaper/hardscaper. It just gives you some business sense....and not that much. Honestly... be humble and go learn from others. You have no idea how many checks you will have to write to finish a job because 'you had never seen that, or thought of that, or realized you needed a bigger excavator on site instead of the small one you got, or forgot to include drive time in your bid, or listened to the experts here'.

DVS Hardscaper
05-04-2011, 11:21 AM
Just like a "GOOD" mechanic.

You don't just wake up one day and decide to turn wrenches. Turning wrenches is something that you start doing as a kid. You don't need books or schooling to learn the basics of engines, brakes, and transmissions. It comes naturally. Yes, you need schooling to understand the electronics of anti-lock brakes, the electronics of the air bag, and the computer system. But a good mechanic never goes to the Diesel Instiutute of America.

Same with Anything in life. Whether it's nursing. Accounting. Driving. Sports. Etc.

I wanna be a NFL player. Is there a book I can buy?


www.outdoorfinishes.com


,

jbo90423
05-04-2011, 11:25 AM
JBO - you obviously never worked up through the ranks of KSP. as you're not a good judge of character and you're apparently thinned skinned. Neither a good attribute for law enforcement.

My post is to instill thought. You don't wake up one day and decide to do something because it looks cool to do. Just like people do not wake up one day and decide they want to be a police officer. It a passion that is years and years in the making. Do a search on my user name and you will see if have maintained this stance for many many years.



I have many a friends and family in law enforcement. Yep out of the many, one that had their mowing service. and yep e en have one that did home improvements. Neither are any longer in business. That's not where their heart truly was. One of them still has their trailer setting on my land. They musta enjoyed meeting me too.

Go ahead, check out my posts.
Posted via Mobile Device

I hope you don't assume things when you bid a job.... oh wait bidding is for auctions.... right? Trust me I have done my homework and you assume way too much! Where did I say I woke up one day and decided to do this? I do just fine judging character.... I love people with your attitude we would usually "adjust" it on the scene.... But Hell I'm from the mountains of Eastern Kentucky so what the hell do I know? Would it change your stance if I told you the company in my region went out of business after 23 years because the owners were indicted in Federal Court for tax evasion, wire fraud and conspiracy, and their manager and foreman lost their jobs, approached me with a proposal to enter this type of work, and I said let me educate myself on hardscaping and this type of work to see if I have the equipment, resources, capital, if there is money to be made in this area, etc... No probably wouldn't change your stance because like I said I have seen your type before.... And now I will play your role and assume you know nothing about passion... My skills got me thru 20 years of trooping, with 6 undercover and 4 on the marijuana strike force.. so I'm fine with entering ANY new field! Like I said in my earlier post. I KNOW THE IMPORTANCE OF EXPERIENCE!!! And you say your post is to instill thought... go look up the word "tact" because by reading your other post and your smartass comments to me you don't have it! People like you are scared to death that someone wants to learn this profession and come take your business from you! Unless your in the Eastern half of Kentucky then don't worry! Like I told you earlier go find another post for your negativity. Is that hard to understand?

jbo90423
05-04-2011, 11:29 AM
Just like a "GOOD" mechanic.

You don't just wake up one day and decide to turn wrenches. Turning wrenches is something that you start doing as a kid. You don't need books or schooling to learn the basics of engines, brakes, and transmissions. It comes naturally. Yes, you need schooling to understand the electronics of anti-lock brakes, the electronics of the air bag, and the computer system. But a good mechanic never goes to the Diesel Instiutute of America.

Same with Anything in life. Whether it's nursing. Accounting. Driving. Sports. Etc.

I wanna be a NFL player. Is there a book I can buy?


www.outdoorfinishes.com


,

Yeah your right they don't use books in nursing, accounting, sports.... oh wait do they have books for hardscaping? No? Love your kind....

DVS Hardscaper
05-04-2011, 11:45 AM
JBO -

You're right. There is nothing positive about someone that gets an itch to do something they're not molded to do.

you asked for more opinions did you not?

You don't like my answer do you?

For years you have had power - do do exactly as you wrote "adjust". And before you even responded - I said to myself "he musta had a big attitude". LOL - then you come on here and you boast about it!! (speaking of "tact") NOW WHO'S KIND DO WE LOVE ! :)

Again - you asked for more responses.

I'm sorry if my answer was not what you were looking for. You are so thinned skinned that you had retorted to bring up your past.

Your past is your past.

Just like when you entered the academy. They didn't care if you were the h.s. football quarterback.

They didn't care if your dad was a mayor of some city in Kentucky. They still made you do extra pushups. When they had you practice knocking on doors - they still made you bang on doors till your knuckles bled. They still had you out running around the track in full uniform in 102-degree heat. They didn't care if you were a volunteer fire fighter and just saved a baby from a burning car 2 months prior.

Same here. Unless you worked for someone doing installations or unless you have meddled with installs for some family members - We don't care about your past.

You wanna do hardscapes?

You wanna be successful?

First step before you buy any books is to lose the tude. And start practicing on your own place.


,

jbo90423
05-04-2011, 12:11 PM
JBO - you asked for more opinions did you not?

You don't like my answer do you?

For years you have had power - do do exactly as you wrote "adjust". And before you even responded - I said to myself "he musta had a big attitude". LOL - then you come on here and you boast about it!!

Again - you asked for more responses.

I'm sorry if my answer was not what you were looking for. You are so thinned skinned that you had retorted to bring up your past. Now - who's kind do we love ? :)

Your past is your past.

Just like when you entered the academy. They didn't care if you were the h.s. football quarterback.

They didn't care if your dad was a mayor of some city in Kentucky. They still made you do extra pushups. When they had you practice knocking on doors - they still made you bang on doors till your knuckles bled. They still had you out running around the track in full uniform in 102-degree heat. They didn't care if you were a volunteer fire fighter and just saved a baby from a burning car 2 months prior.

Same here. Unless you worked for someone doing installations or unless you have meddled with installs for some family members - We don't care about your past.

You wanna do hardscapes?

You wanna be successful?

First step before you buy any books is to lose the tude. And start practicing on your own place.


,

I knew that wouldn't change your stance on it, even predicted it. And below was your response to me asking the question about classes, books, certifications...


Man I'm glad I ran into you, lets refresh your memory... Here is YOUR FIRST RESPONSE

you cut yards now?

And you want to do construction work?

Where is the corrilation? Heck, cutting hair is a closer corrilation to mowing yards than hardscapes is

Why didn't you be a brick/block/stone mason instead of a yard cutting guy?


I see that as being a smartass! Not at all helpful! See tact is saying, "Hey JBO, this is a tough profession and my recommendation is to get some experience first and foremost", but thats not the way you operate. I did ask for responses not smartass people like you. Look at what TomG posted. Thats what I am looking for. NOT people like you!

you say "There is nothing positive about someone that gets an itch to do something they're not molded to do."

Your scared to death that you will lose business from new comers who do their homework and out work you in all aspects of the profession!

People like you will never grow because you are close minded and think within the box. And apparently you didn't read my post, I didn't get any itch, I was approached by two men with years of experience. My first response wasn't hell yeah lets go, no it was, let me educate myself on this profession and see if its something I want to do. That to me sounds like the smart decision. But I see your not one to answer question posed to you. I bet through no direction or experience you just decided to do hardscapes? People like you forget where you came from! And I see my point about my work experience with the KSP flew right over your head. But I understand that from someone who is uneducated! Oh wait was that an assumption? Just playing your game! Again go find another thread, seems like you should get out from behind that computer and go work. Or has it dried up for you because of your tactfulness in dealing with clients? Or your the boss and like sitting at home while you pay someone 10.00/hr to do the work for you? Either way I don't care.... Your kind is everywhere, I'm use to it...

DVS Hardscaper
05-04-2011, 12:17 PM
JBO - you said:

someone approached you and asked you to start doing hardscapes.

This means you have NO passion for this. This means you got the itch.

One day you're out washing your car in the driveway thinking about going for a nice weekend ride. The next day you're wanting to do something that's never crossed your mind before.

All because someone approached you!!!!

The more you respond, the more we're learning about you which is good.

Thats a positive. Which is what you wanted.

And because we now know that someone approaced you - my initial post has MORE merit.

Stop arguing with me. And think about what I'm conveying to you.

I saw you looked at my profile. Go deep into my posts. You'll find that where I have typed the exact smae thing previously. And you'll see that where other's have agreed with me.

Now that you shared that you were approached - is there anything else we need to know that you're holding back?


.

jbo90423
05-04-2011, 12:19 PM
Take some notes from TomG, thats the kind of response I am looking for.... who cares what my company is doing or which direction it is heading? I signed up for this thread and asked a question, decent people like TomG just answer the question if they have a useful answer and move on... the don't post some smart comments like "you cut yards.... and..." but you probably won't get it DVS....

DVS Hardscaper
05-04-2011, 12:37 PM
JBO - you're really hateful at me. I apologize if you don't like my online style.

I think my answer is very useful.

You may not realize it now, as you are aggitated, but one day you will realize my response ss even more useful for you now that we found out you were approached. Also known as an arranged marriage.

Why expend time, energy, money, and effort on something that really does not exist in your heart? When they had your retirement party and you stood at the podium thanking everyone for attending - at that moment did you envision yourself installing pavers? If you honestly can answer yes - then welcome to the forum.

Just like people that want to be a police officer. Many folks apply for the job not because they care about their community - but because they simply want that badge and blue lights. The interview board sniffs these folks out in seconds when they interview them. It's for everyone's own good, especially the applicant's.

With all due respect please take an couple hrs and allow yourself to think about what I'm trying to convey to you before you hit the respond button.

,

jbo90423
05-04-2011, 12:45 PM
JBO - you said:

someone approached you and asked you to start doing hardscapes.

This means you have NO passion for this. This means you got the itch.

One day you're out washing your car in the driveway thinking about going for a nice weekend ride. The next day you're wanting to do something that's never crossed your mind before.

All because someone approached you!!!!

The more you respond, the more we're learning about you which is good.

Thats a positive. Which is what you wanted.

And because we now know that someone approaced you - my initial post has MORE merit.

Stop arguing with me. And think about what I'm conveying to you.

I saw you looked at my profile. Go deep into my posts. You'll find that where I have typed the exact smae thing previously. And you'll see that where other's have agreed with me.

Now that you shared that you were approached - is there anything else we need to know that you're holding back?


.


Let me throw this at you since you say "YOU HAVE TO HAVE PASSION TO BE SUCCESSFUL OR ACCOMPLISHED"

Young men who were DRAFTED into war years ago, bet they didn't want to fight in war or wanted to do something else besides leave everything and go abroad..... Do you think any of them were successful or had great military careers? Under your logic of things NO.... but boy could I give you examples!!!


Thats my point exactly, You know who T. Boone Pickens is? He is an oil billionaire from Texas, look him up. He was "approached" by people to go into the business of wind energy.... did he say hell no, i have no passion for that? NO, he as invested millions... Perhaps Pickens' most dramatic move occurred in July 2008, when he launched an $82 million national advertising campaign to promote the Pickens Plan, an energy policy aimed at reducing the American addiction to foreign oil. HIS BUSINESS IS OIL AND GAS! And yet he is going in another direction!


Bet you think he is a dumbass too? Oh my goodness he took his business in another direction because someone approached him... oh gosh what an idiot! I bet he didn't educated himself on it! No bet he just flew in feet first!

You logic makes no sense, but sit behind your computer and know it all...



lets see.... oh Bill Gates and Microsoft... He built computers for homeowners.... thats what made him rich, successful, all that... WOW someone approached him and said lets make something called XBOX, its a gaming console for kids.... He was sitting there "washing his car" and someone approached him saying this is a great opportunity!!! Yeah your right XBOX went nowhere!!! Is it still around?


Ever heard of a company called GE?


should I go on?


see people like you never grow, think within the box, thats ok, it would be easy to compete with a company like you, thats not me...


I mean I would bet the first thing T. Boone Pickens and Bill Gates did was educate themselves on whether or not this was a direction they would take their company....


But YOUR RIGHT THEY HAVE NO PASSION!!!! And aren't successful or anything...


Never thought I would get this much grief from wanting to educate myself...


Can't wait for you next post....

DVS Hardscaper
05-04-2011, 01:00 PM
Why would I care about what you do?

This industry is called HARDscapes for a reason.

jbo90423
05-04-2011, 01:11 PM
JBO - You were approached.


so?

I see you didn't address anything I said, but thats your style...

My initial request was classes, books, certifications....

your response was anything but helpful!

I wonder if Gates or Pickens reached out for assistance if you would say Hey Boone gas is underground and wind is above thats a correlation like "cutting hair" or Hey Bill, computers are for work and homework at home, you know nothing about gaming consoles.... who you wanna be Nintendo?


Im just saying....

DVS Hardscaper
05-04-2011, 01:20 PM
JBO -

You may call me at 301 416 2600 and I can address what you want.

Your examples of drafting people at 18.

Examples of Bill Gates and others are irrelivant.

Thats why I don't respond. Too much typing.

Growing and passion. Two differnt worlds.

If you had to be approached - you don't have the passion for pavers. I see it all the time on a local level, for 21 years to be exact. And yes - i DO know of a guy that WAS approached! And - about 6 years ago he was even a member of this forum. He is no longer in business, and ended with a couple lawsuits on him.

I see your passion is arguing. Thought about law school?

jbo90423
05-04-2011, 01:30 PM
JBO -

You may call me at 301 416 2600 and I can address what you want.

Your examples of drafting people at 18.

Examples of Bill Gates and others are irrelivant.

Thats why I don't respond. Too much typing.

Growing and passion. Two differnt worlds.

If you had to be approached - you don't have the passion for pavers. I see it all the time on a local level, for 21 years to be exact. And yes - i DO know of a guy that WAS approached! And - about 6 years ago he was even a member of this forum. He is no longer in business, and ended with a couple lawsuits on him.

I see your passion is arguing. Thought about law school?


No don't have a passion for it....

chipper44
05-04-2011, 04:20 PM
I am relatively new to this forum. Just wanted to say i enjoy all these post after a good days work. It makes me smile. Very good points are brought up though. And DVS can be helpful. I have found some pretty detailed HELPFUL post by him.

scagrider22
05-04-2011, 10:02 PM
I think I want to get into law enforcment part time, maybe even a detective on the weekends...:) I will even do it for less pay, I hope I dont ruin the pay scale for other cops while Im busy playing cop. :cool2:

DVS Hardscaper
05-04-2011, 11:50 PM
I think I want to get into law enforcment part time, maybe even a detective on the weekends...:) I will even do it for less pay, I hope I dont ruin the pay scale for other cops while Im busy playing cop. :cool2:



Your experience as security at the local firemen's carnival shall suffice. And since you enjoyed being carnival security - the passion definitely exists. Your transition from middle school hall monitor to carnival security is finally paying off :weightlifter:


,

scagrider22
05-05-2011, 12:11 AM
Your experience as security at the local firemen's carnival shall suffice. And since you enjoyed being carnival security - the passion definitely exists. Your transition from middle school hall monitor to carnival security is finally paying off :weightlifter:


,

I already have a sweet flash light, next comes the Farva mustache and some aviators!

Bru75
05-05-2011, 12:20 AM
I think I want to get into law enforcment part time, maybe even a detective on the weekends...:) I will even do it for less pay, I hope I dont ruin the pay scale for other cops while Im busy playing cop. :cool2:

I'll bet you've seen a lot of cop shows, too!
Watching HGTV makes people think they're qualified for just about all home improvements, so why not?

scagrider22
05-05-2011, 12:28 AM
I'll bet you've seen a lot of cop shows, too!
Watching HGTV makes people think they're qualified for just about all home improvements, so why not?

Im also a cabinet maker, I watched 7 seasons of the New Yankee Workshop.

DVS Hardscaper
05-05-2011, 12:31 AM
I already have a sweet flash light, next comes the Farva mustache and some aviators!


My 7 yr old has you beat! He has cuffs!!!

And a REAL badge (not pictured)!






,

Bru75
05-05-2011, 12:34 AM
My 7 yr old has you beat! He has cuffs!!!

And a REAL badge (not pictured)!






,

And he even has the proper haircut!

scagrider22
05-05-2011, 12:46 AM
LMAO, great picture.

DVS Hardscaper
05-05-2011, 08:59 AM
We have alotta close friends that are police officers, and he loves police and wants to be one. He has all the lines down-pat. He has this giant stuffed animal raccoon that's the size of him that he tackles to the ground and jabs his knee in his back and arrests him for possession of "sea weed"! Remember the old Nextel phones? I gave him
Mine and he uses it as his police radio. I have a long time friend that is an assistant chief somewhere and they had some old unused badges still in the packaging that he gave to
My kid as a special gift.

Thats where passion begins. Not as you're pumping gas and Billy Bob pulls up and asks if you would like to consider becoming a super duper looper padio-guy!


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