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redspot321
05-06-2011, 09:33 PM
Thanks for taking a look at my other threads the suggestions have been great. This post will help me keep track of my lawn experiment. I figure this will give me something to do over the summer and this is a good place to post my results.

For those who have not seen my other thread I have a large area of yellowing in my Flortam which does not respond to fertilizer. I sent a soil sample off to University of Florida and here is what the results were.

PH7.6 (target 6.5)
Phos 28 (Med)
Potassium 30 (Low)
Mag 72 (Very High)
Calcium >3376 (Off the Chart)

Copper 0.00
Maganese 2.25
Zinc 3.17


Recommendations from the "Master Gardner"....

1. Apply Lesco 8-10-10 to replace Phosphate and Potassium and reduce ph
(Sulfer 6.70%, Copper 0.5%, Iron 3%, Maganese 0.40, Zinc 0.10, Chlorine 2.40%)

2. Apply Liquid Seaweed to lower PH and micronutrient problems. According to Master gardner

Done!


So I took it a step further and marked off 2 equal sections of the yard 100Sq ft ea and treated one area with Organic Liquid seaweed as suggested and the other with Aluminum Sulphate 5lbs per 100 Sq ft (ALOT!). I will also aerate equal portions of both test areas as well as suggested by some members here. I am just curious to see what works the best so when I treat my entire lawn I can pin it down.

Start Picture

redspot321
05-06-2011, 09:35 PM
Day 1

Aluminum Sulphate Left Side / Liquid Seaweed Left Side

RigglePLC
05-06-2011, 09:54 PM
There are two long green streaks on the upper right...why? Is it fertilizer? Is the soil different there?
Did you mean you used seaweed extract on the right?

What does soil look like? Gray clay? Black? Yellow clay? Red clay? White sand? If you shake soil in a jar and let it settle, what does it look like? Does it smell bad?

billslawn89
05-07-2011, 12:17 AM
does is look like its cut too low? the green streaks looks like tires marks from the mower, mowing in the same spot making ruts, so grass is taller in those areas. my 2 cents

South Florida Lawns
05-07-2011, 01:35 AM
You got ruts all over the place.

Patriot Services
05-07-2011, 08:47 AM
Jeez Red, I just wish you could of kept this all in one thread. I am curious to see how the turf reacts to the literal micro management. I still maintain let it grow tall. As for using the ornamental fert in the yard, its just pricier to customers. But that's not a problem as its your lawn. At least your Lowes ph meter was accurate.
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Ric
05-07-2011, 09:18 AM
Jeez Red, I just wish you could of kept this all in one thread. I am curious to see how the turf reacts to the literal micro management. I still maintain let it grow tall. As for using the ornamental fert in the yard, its just pricier to customers. But that's not a problem as its your lawn. At least your Lowes ph meter was accurate.
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Patriot

You suggestion in the other thread to Verticut a already weak turf, certainly was off the wall. Little Mikey agreeing with you wasn't a surprise considering it was Mikey.

Patriot Services
05-07-2011, 09:35 AM
Hard to tell from the photos but the turf looked salvageable. Sure the quick fix would be rip and resod. I felt the verti and topdress would be better than tilling it all up as someone else suggested. I have saved far worse the same way. I do a wider spacing on the blades though.
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redspot321
05-07-2011, 10:21 AM
DAY 2


I did a little digging today and heres what I found....

The ground is HARD. Harder than I originally thought. I used a 10 inch phillips head around the entire lawn and for the most part it went through the soil easily, In the yellowing section I had to put most of my body weight on the screwdriver to get it through the soil.
Sounds like a compaction issue as many of you have said:)

When I removed the top 3-4 inches of turf and soil I was very suprised as to how many roots were in the soil fro the grasss. I figured the roots would be unhealthy as well.

Also When I took a soil sample from 6-8 inches down it was clumped but broke apart easily in my hand.(this soil is pictured below) I think the roots were holding the soil together until I put a little pressure on it.

Soooooooo......Whats the best method of areation? and where can you get the supplies if you want yo DIY? Verticut vs core and topdress with sand or what?

RigglePLC
05-07-2011, 10:37 AM
To me the soil does not look too bad from the photo. But if it is really hard--that is a bad sign. It is dark--organic hopefully--does not look like clay--but I am only looking at the photo.

May I suggest a micronutrient mixture. Iron, manganese, sulfer, copper, zinc, boron, molybdenum.

Greg78
05-07-2011, 10:50 AM
What height you cutting at? Looks cut way too low. I followed the other threads but didn't see where you ever answered the question about cut height?

Looks like all the bank owned lawns that are being hacked down to 2".

I cut all Floratam at 4" to 4.5".

redspot321
05-07-2011, 11:03 AM
To me the soil does not look too bad from the photo. But if it is really hard--that is a bad sign. It is dark--organic hopefully--does not look like clay--but I am only looking at the photo.

May I suggest a micronutrient mixture. Iron, manganese, sulfer, copper, zinc, boron, molybdenum.

I used a Lesco 8-10-10 . What else would you recommend?
1. Apply Lesco 8-10-10 to replace Phosphate and Potassium and reduce ph
(Sulfer 6.70%, Copper 0.5%, Iron 3%, Maganese 0.40, Zinc 0.10, Chlorine 2.40%)

2. Apply Liquid Seaweed to lower PH and micronutrient problems. According to Master gardner

redspot321
05-07-2011, 11:07 AM
What height you cutting at? Looks cut way too low. I followed the other threads but didn't see where you ever answered the question about cut height?

Looks like all the bank owned lawns that are being hacked down to 2".

I cut all Floratam at 4" to 4.5".
Greg, I have ALWAYS cut my floratam on the highest setting Aproxx. 4"....However in this photo I did lower the blade so I could get to the bare yellow area of my yard. Normally there is no growth to cut here so I thought I would drop the blade 1 notch and see if I could somehow stimulate growth by giving a fresh cut. Unfortunatly I hit the rest of the yars as well.

bug-guy
05-07-2011, 12:09 PM
if the ph is high use sulfur to lower if you core or punch holes first. also look at bolster granular

redspot321
05-07-2011, 12:32 PM
So after i pull cores from my yard, do i spread sand or anything to fill the hole and keep the soil soft?

Ric
05-07-2011, 05:17 PM
Hard to tell from the photos but the turf looked salvageable. Sure the quick fix would be rip and resod. I felt the verti and topdress would be better than tilling it all up as someone else suggested. I have saved far worse the same way. I do a wider spacing on the blades though.
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Patriot

Sorry but that Verticutting a weak turf is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. All you are doing is making a weak turf weaker by stressing it even more.


Redspot

Take a hint from the Granola Nuts in the orgasmic forum and spread a Good Compost or Pest Moss after you hollow core. Adding some Organism makes everyone feel like a king and increase your Percentage of SOM. Soil Orgasm Material will help lower pH and might reduce the need for an application of straight sulfur. Keep Fertilizing with an acid forming fertilizer and what little pH problem you have should go away or not be a problem.

PS Yes I know how to spell Organic but Orgasm sounds like more fun.

Patriot Services
05-07-2011, 06:08 PM
UF recommends a 3" spaced verticutting. There is no mention in the SA section about aerating. I don't see why you couldn't core aerate. The physical "damage" will be the same. As we both agree getting good OM down is the desired result. High grade compost is still my choice.
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Ric
05-07-2011, 07:36 PM
UF recommends a 3" spaced verticutting. There is no mention in the SA section about aerating. I don't see why you couldn't core aerate. The physical "damage" will be the same. As we both agree getting good OM down is the desired result. High grade compost is still my choice.
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Patriot

Apparently you are referring to a Different UF than the U of F I graduated from. The U of F I know would never say Hollow core does the same damage as verticutting.

redspot321
05-07-2011, 09:06 PM
Sweet! Found a place down he street that rents core areator self-propelled. Fri sat and Sunday for $45. Ill do it in a couple of weeks when I have time. I'm not going to mess with anything else till then as I'm probably stressing the he'll out of my turf. I'll keep the photos comming though.
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Landscape Poet
05-07-2011, 09:26 PM
Patriot

Apparently you are referring to a Different UF than the U of F I graduated from. The U of F I know would never say Hollow core does the same damage as verticutting.

Ric,

You have said that you disagree with what Patriot and I recommended. I have not heard a solution from you. So lets get you input unless you are just wanting to visit the forums to belittle folks again.

Back to the verticutting. From his description, the soil is extremely hard what would be the issue ric if the turf is already struggling? If he was to core or verticut, he will cause some stress to the turf, but it is already stressed, so applying a compost as we suggested, especially if it has maybe a green sand in it, would only allow the turf a opportunity to get air, alleviate excess moisture hence causing the the soil to warm better, and then the compost would give the new growth a home to tap down correct?

If I am wrong, please inform me, I do not ever claim to be the know it all of the forums, I share my opinion and go on, however since you have so much knowledge, please give the OP the solution to his problem and lets move on! Maybe he can add your suggestions to the experiment and we can all follow along and see which method works the best?

Ric
05-08-2011, 09:09 AM
Ric,

You have said that you disagree with what Patriot and I recommended. I have not heard a solution from you. So lets get you input unless you are just wanting to visit the forums to belittle folks again.

Back to the verticutting. From his description, the soil is extremely hard what would be the issue ric if the turf is already struggling? If he was to core or verticut, he will cause some stress to the turf, but it is already stressed, so applying a compost as we suggested, especially if it has maybe a green sand in it, would only allow the turf a opportunity to get air, alleviate excess moisture hence causing the the soil to warm better, and then the compost would give the new growth a home to tap down correct?

If I am wrong, please inform me, I do not ever claim to be the know it all of the forums, I share my opinion and go on, however since you have so much knowledge, please give the OP the solution to his problem and lets move on! Maybe he can add your suggestions to the experiment and we can all follow along and see which method works the best?

Mikey

I think I found your problem. You either can't or don't read very well, or else don't retain what you do read. May I suggest to read post # 16 and then think about eating crow.

Back to Verticutting for just a second. From your above post it is vertically cutting all the runner every 3 inches. Hopefully you are smart enough to only go one direction unlike some of the fools I have seen. But my question is what good does verticutting do on already stressed turf that has very little or any thatch. The problem appeals to be soil compaction and verticutting is not going to relief compaction. However Hollow Core aeration with a organic topdressing can help.

Patriot Services
05-08-2011, 10:17 AM
And those closer than 3" spaced core punches aren't going to sever just as many runners? Granted it will allow more om, light, air, water, nutrients to get deeper. My use of a verti in renovation is from too much damage caused by aerators. I have seen to much damage to irrigation systems. TG did a number on few of my customers yards. My verti can about an inch down and does loosen the soil in the process. You are right though in one pass, one direction. Not disagreeing with aeration, just feel more than one way to improve a situation.

Landscape Poet
05-08-2011, 10:25 AM
Mikey

I think I found your problem. You either can't or don't read very well, or else don't retain what you do read. May I suggest to read post # 16 and then think about eating crow.

Back to Verticutting for just a second. From your above post it is vertically cutting all the runner every 3 inches. Hopefully you are smart enough to only go one direction unlike some of the fools I have seen. But my question is what good does verticutting do on already stressed turf that has very little or any thatch. The problem appeals to be soil compaction and verticutting is not going to relief compaction. However Hollow Core aeration with a organic topdressing can help.


Ric,

My apologies - I did not see that you had made a suggestion and I do agree core aeration and topdressing with a quality compost. Crow taste good!

Ric
05-08-2011, 11:35 AM
And those closer than 3" spaced core punches aren't going to sever just as many runners? Granted it will allow more om, light, air, water, nutrients to get deeper. My use of a verti in renovation is from too much damage caused by aerators. I have seen to much damage to irrigation systems. TG did a number on few of my customers yards. My verti can about an inch down and does loosen the soil in the process. You are right though in one pass, one direction. Not disagreeing with aeration, just feel more than one way to improve a situation.

Patriot

Sorry but I don't believe you have a whole lot of Common sense which is a common problem with people your age. Most Hollow core machines do 9 holes per sq ft. That mean a possible 9 runner cut at most per sq ft. How many runners do you cut per sq ft verticutting straight lines 3 inches apart???? HELLO COMMON SENSE!!!! You don't think Verticutting is stressful on turf?? Especially weak turf.

Patriot Services
05-08-2011, 11:43 AM
And one sided cynicism is the hallmark of the geriatric crowd. Like you said you have seen numbnuts make multiple passes with a verti, I have seen the same with aerators. Looked half tilled and torn turf at every turn.
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Patriot Services
05-08-2011, 11:55 AM
And here is the UF material on SA that makes no mention of aerating.
EDIS.IFAS.UFL.EDU/lh010
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White Gardens
05-08-2011, 12:15 PM
I'm going to weigh in on the compaction issue.

First off I come from a farming family and my father has practiced no-till farming on his plot for the last 20 years. Growing up I've learned a lot of useful knowledge from that experience that has coincided with lawn work.

Core aeration does relieve compaction, but, only at the surface. Even the best plugger aerators only get down 2 inches and probably only really achieve a 1.5 inch average over the whole lawn.

To get that deep core with an aerator you have to aerate when the soil is wet/damp to get good penetration. But, we all know that when any soil is wet, it will compact much easier than when it's dry.

So. Here is my solution to deep compaction issues with a lawn, mainly associated with with newer style home construction from the last 20 years or better.

Go rent a toro dingo or any other suitable walk behind mini skid. Rent a vibratory plow for it also.

Use the plow to "rip" the first 12 inches of depth in the lawn, trying to keep as close to your last pass as possible. Do this, but there is no need to use the vibrator. What this will do will help to relieve deep compaction in the lawn.

After you are done, give the lawn a month to recover and then use a core aerator to relive the first couple of inches of compaction created by the walk-behind skid steer.

If I ever get a slow winter again, I'm wanting to modify and make two ripping shanks for my mini skid with wings on them, similar to what they use in the ag industry. This way I would achieve soil lift when ripping a lawn and to also space the shanks to run directly in the wheel tracks of the machine.

http://www.bighambrothers.com/ripper.jpg

Patriot Services
05-08-2011, 12:25 PM
I assume you will be replacing all the irrigation and other utilities. Nobody seems to bury things to code depth anymore and its even worse on new construction.
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Ric
05-08-2011, 12:33 PM
And one sided cynicism is the hallmark of the geriatric crowd. Like you said you have seen numbnuts make multiple passes with a verti, I have seen the same with aerators. Looked half tilled and torn turf at every turn.
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Patriot

But this geriatric individual actually has a AS in Golf Course Management and a Bachelors in Soil and Plant Science from the U of F. I have taught horticulture part time at local college. Include in those credentials a Full Book Pesticide Certification plus 487 Agriculture pesticide certifications etc, Registered Irrigation Contractor, Registered Commercial Landscape contractor, Certified Arbortist, CEU Provider and Professional Yard Boy.

And Your Credentials are?????????.

Gee I guess because you can't find any information on Hollow Core Aeration of St Augustine Turf then Florida's Calcareous sand which comes from Coral plants doesn't compact. Sorry but sand from parenting material of coral has some of the lowest tensile strength of any parenting material. Even sand stone is stronger. Low tensile strength cause Coral sand to break or crush very easy and the result is compaction. I am not going into Bulk Density and Particle size distribution which might better explain why soil compacts, but you should get the point by now.

BTW FYI Northern Gulf Coast of Florida (Pensacola area) actually has very high tensile strength sand from Parenting material of a particular Sand stone and doesn't compact AS EASY as Coral Sand. Like the Chef told me, you got to know your onions if you are going cook.

White Gardens
05-08-2011, 01:02 PM
I assume you will be replacing all the irrigation and other utilities. Nobody seems to bury things to code depth anymore and its even worse on new construction.
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Mark your lines first and avoid them.

Patriot Services
05-08-2011, 01:04 PM
Ric- I am well aware of vast credentials. You asked where I got that information and I told you. If you care to know my degree is a bs in medical technology so chemistry is not foreign to me. I have been doing this kind of work for 20 years minus a few deployments that nearly cost me my business.
Back to topic. So if the sand compacts as easily as it looks then any intervention will be short lived. Which I would take as a need for a serious layer (12" maybe) of good topsoil and resodding.
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Ric
05-08-2011, 01:50 PM
Patriot & White Gardens

I am not saying you are totally wrong just not in touch with Reality Sorry but a fellow named Andy Rockefeller once told me we all have a budget we have to live within. I told him yes I agree, but I would much rather have his budget than mine.

Subsoiling and resodding is quite expensive. When I had a sod company back before Hurricane Charlie we got $ 1.00 a sq ft to tear out and resod with St Augustine. To day that price has gone down just like the Dollar or the Devaluation of the dollar. But here in Florida we are still in an economic slump with a higher than the national average of unemployment. Sure My business and many others are seeing some increase, but that doesn't say people would be willing to pay for subsoil plowing even in good times.

White Gardens
05-08-2011, 03:56 PM
With the method I've described, the whole idea is to do minimal damage to the existing turf.

Yes, it will tear it up some, but with the spreading habit of augustine and other warm season grasses would allow it to recover without re-sodding or renovating the turf itself.

So the money of the rental of the machine and attachment would be minimal. You could also say that the initial cost of deep ripping would equal that of a couple years of aerating, power-raking, and applying other ferts and chemicals to take care of the core problem.

Once you get the cultural practices in line, then long term you are spending less money to take care of the lawn.

redspot321
05-08-2011, 04:36 PM
Guys, You know a thermometer has alot of degrees too, and you know where we stick those :) :dancing:

Im damn near a rocket scientist and you see the questions Im asking.:laugh:


Whats the deal between a Self Propelled aerator aerator and a pull behind. My property is .5 acre with no fence. In your opinion which would pull the deepest core?

Ric
05-08-2011, 04:43 PM
With the method I've described, the whole idea is to do minimal damage to the existing turf.

Yes, it will tear it up some, but with the spreading habit of augustine and other warm season grasses would allow it to recover without re-sodding or renovating the turf itself.

So the money of the rental of the machine and attachment would be minimal. You could also say that the initial cost of deep ripping would equal that of a couple years of aerating, power-raking, and applying other ferts and chemicals to take care of the core problem.

Once you get the cultural practices in line, then long term you are spending less money to take care of the lawn.

White

Of course you are an expert with many years of experience on warm season turf right there in Bloomington Illinois.

BTW Thanks for the laugh I needed it. I am cleaning and reorganizing my equipment barn today which is always a mentally depressing job. This thread is keeping a smile on my face as I do a job I don't like.

Patriot Services
05-08-2011, 04:48 PM
I'm not sure how much that would improve things. A fact many people forget is peninsular Florida is basically a giant sandbar. You don't have to dig more than a couple inches to get sand. Being as it wants to settle back into a compacted state why churn it to the surface? Adding large amounts of Om is sometimes the only long term fix. But as Ric pointed out it always comes down to the dollar. Topsoil and good compost ain't cheap down here. Additionally SA is not very tolerant of wear. Foot traffic and heavy mowers can put a serious hurtin on it. You can always tell the lawn guy that doesn't vary his pattern every week. A Dingo or skidsteer are probably going to cause more problems than they fix. Topdressing, aeration, verticutting, fertilization would solve many common issues here but again few are willing to pay.:usflag:

White Gardens
05-08-2011, 07:01 PM
White

Of course you are an expert with many years of experience on warm season turf right there in Bloomington Illinois.

BTW Thanks for the laugh I needed it. I am cleaning and reorganizing my equipment barn today which is always a mentally depressing job. This thread is keeping a smile on my face as I do a job I don't like.

I deal with a few warm season lawns up here. I can tell you right now that warm season turfs spread and fill in way better than the KBG and fescues we hav. I'm not saying I'm an expert, but your discounting my opinion as completely and uterly wrong. I don't bash you Ric and have always appreciated your input as with the green industry, there is always more than one way to skin a cat.

Vibratory plows are used to help not disturb turf or to tear up a lawn when installing lines and such. Rippers have been used in the ag industry to releive deep compaction in feilds without disturbing the old residues at the surface. The whole idea is to save the existing turf and upper layers of soil while relieving deep compaction.

I've also seen how left undisturbed, highly sandy areas can compact worse than good soil. Years ago we tried no-tilling sand rigdes on old river bottoms and with a compaction probe we realized after 4 years you need to do a deep tilling to help relieve compaction as production fell off each year do to poor growth.

Ric
05-08-2011, 09:49 PM
I deal with a few warm season lawns up here. I can tell you right now that warm season turfs spread and fill in way better than the KBG and fescues we hav. I'm not saying I'm an expert, but your discounting my opinion as completely and uterly wrong. I don't bash you Ric and have always appreciated your input as with the green industry, there is always more than one way to skin a cat.

Vibratory plows are used to help not disturb turf or to tear up a lawn when installing lines and such. Rippers have been used in the ag industry to releive deep compaction in feilds without disturbing the old residues at the surface. The whole idea is to save the existing turf and upper layers of soil while relieving deep compaction.

I've also seen how left undisturbed, highly sandy areas can compact worse than good soil. Years ago we tried no-tilling sand rigdes on old river bottoms and with a compaction probe we realized after 4 years you need to do a deep tilling to help relieve compaction as production fell off each year do to poor growth.

White

Bloomington Ill is in Cold Hardness Zone 5 A so we know exactly how much Warm Season Grass grows in Bloomington Ill.

BTW You are also North of the Transitional zone.

White Gardens
05-09-2011, 12:18 AM
What am I going to have to do Ric, shoot some pics of some full zoysia lawns we have up here, show pics of the Bermuda grass infiltrating my lawn, or heck, I'll even go shoot pics of a lawn that's nothing but buffalo grass.

I'll take it a step further if you want and go shoot some pics of some golf greens that are, yep, you guessed it, warm season grasses...

The only difference from you guys is that they go dormant in the winter.

The one thing I keep hearing from my counterparts in this industry is, "Don't reinvent the wheel". You know what, I don't want to reinvent the wheel, just make it rounder. So if my thinking outside your proverbial, I know more than everyone else because of my years of hard work, box is making you feel threatened, then so be it. I would hate to see how you treat your customers.

People call me once they've gone through a handful of LCO's that can't solve a problem, because they know I'll do whatever it takes to solve their problem efficiently and cost effectively.

bug-guy
05-09-2011, 08:06 AM
this place reminds me of a certain sport... wait for it... i went to a fight the other nite and a hockey game broke out. this always happens here. and ric is usuaully involved.
there's more posts back and forth in a pissing contest then the poor guy trying to solve a problem.
i know i will feel the wrath of ric... wait for it!

Ric
05-09-2011, 09:13 AM
this place reminds me of a certain sport... wait for it... i went to a fight the other nite and a hockey game broke out. this always happens here. and ric is usuaully involved.
there's more posts back and forth in a pissing contest then the poor guy trying to solve a problem.
i know i will feel the wrath of ric... wait for it!

Bug Guy

No wrath of Ric today. You are correct in the fact I am foolish enough to argue with Idiots.

fl-landscapes
05-09-2011, 04:25 PM
What am I going to have to do Ric, shoot some pics of some full zoysia lawns we have up here, show pics of the Bermuda grass infiltrating my lawn, or heck, I'll even go shoot pics of a lawn that's nothing but buffalo grass.

I'll take it a step further if you want and go shoot some pics of some golf greens that are, yep, you guessed it, warm season grasses...
The only difference from you guys is that they go dormant in the winter.

The one thing I keep hearing from my counterparts in this industry is, "Don't reinvent the wheel". You know what, I don't want to reinvent the wheel, just make it rounder. So if my thinking outside your proverbial, I know more than everyone else because of my years of hard work, box is making you feel threatened, then so be it. I would hate to see how you treat your customers.

People call me once they've gone through a handful of LCO's that can't solve a problem, because they know I'll do whatever it takes to solve their problem efficiently and cost effectively.

Actually most northern courses use bentgrass on greens (cool season grass)

bug-guy
05-09-2011, 07:39 PM
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." It's attributed to Mark Twain,

South Florida Lawns
05-09-2011, 08:15 PM
Subsoiling and resodding is quite expensive. When I had a sod company back before Hurricane Charlie we got $ 1.00 a sq ft to tear out and resod with St .

Not to get too off topic but I was beat out by a local sod company on a 10,000 sq ft. job, they came in at around .55 a sq ft tear out and all. And I thought my prices were reasonable, guess I was wrong.

greendoctor
05-09-2011, 08:25 PM
Only way for that to work is if the sod were free, disposal of the old turf was free and the workers were paid peanuts. I would also be curious as to the prep before the sod went down. Go cheap there and you will be back shortly.

Ric
05-10-2011, 10:09 AM
Not to get too off topic but I was beat out by a local sod company on a 10,000 sq ft. job, they came in at around .55 a sq ft tear out and all. And I thought my prices were reasonable, guess I was wrong.

South

I do some Clear kill for sod companies that are laying it right on top of the old turf. My first reaction was WOW not my kind of Quality work. But believe it or not it does great. Irrigation has to be raised and a few other places have to graded to look right, but in general it can be a better system at a cheaper price.

7 years ago I paid $ 60.00 a 400 sq ft pallet in the field loaded on my F 700 truck and hauled 25 mile into town where the jobs were. Figure I paid $0.15 a ft in the field and it cost me an other $ 0.10 to transport it, I had $ 0.25 sq ft in material before any work started.





Only way for that to work is if the sod were free, disposal of the old turf was free and the workers were paid peanuts. I would also be curious as to the prep before the sod went down. Go cheap there and you will be back shortly.

Green

Back in the day I saved the rip out and composted it. True there was a lot of sand but it had Herbaceous organic material that composted very quick. I then mixed it with top soil for containers. The politically correct way would be to say.The nature of Nursery business to recycle as much material as possible. Instead of saying You are cheap.

Landscape Poet
05-15-2011, 12:19 AM
Not to get too off topic but I was beat out by a local sod company on a 10,000 sq ft. job, they came in at around .55 a sq ft tear out and all. And I thought my prices were reasonable, guess I was wrong.

SFL,

Although this price is low, through subbing I could still make roughly 1k on this size job for that price putting down very thick classic. This includes sod cutting, removal, landscape rake, delivery and install and of course the sod.
Goes to show the power of networking. The L & O company that I recommend, I take care of one of the owners lawns, he informed me about the guys his company uses. The rest is history. 19000 square feet in the last 3 months and I have not touched a sod cutter!

krlc
05-15-2011, 11:27 AM
...so has anything happened with redspots lawn?

Patriot Services
05-15-2011, 11:39 AM
I don't know. He has several threads started on this and I gave up tracking it.
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South Florida Lawns
05-15-2011, 08:33 PM
I found a sod distributer that will deliver and install a pallet of st. augustine for $180, you gotta have the soil prepped for them to lay it. Thats not a bad deal there for my area anyways.

Landscape Poet
05-17-2011, 08:07 AM
I found a sod distributer that will deliver and install a pallet of st. augustine for $180, you gotta have the soil prepped for them to lay it. Thats not a bad deal there for my area anyways.

Meet the crew that does the install. Most likely they are their own idependent company. Ask them. That is how I worked out my deal. It started with subbing it out to the Sod company suggested, then I met the crew, found out they are independent and owned their own business, talked to the owner - the rest is history because we cut out the middle man essentially except he is still making his money on the sod.