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scott's turf
10-07-2002, 08:56 AM
I plan to tow an excavator (11,000 lbs) and on its trailer (3500 lbs?) with my 92 F250 7.3 Diesel. I know this is a very heavy load. I will obviously have electric brakes, but is this doable? I have to go quite a distance, about 1.5 hr trip. Thanks for your responses.
-Scott

The Mowerdude
10-07-2002, 09:10 AM
Open up the drivers door and look at the GVWR of your truck. It should be on the i.d. tag somewhere. That rating is truck/trailer and load. So unless your truck only weighs about 600lbs, I'd say you need to get a bigger truck.

My F350 has a GVWR of 10,500lbs. And it's a dually. So I would need a bigger truck as well.

I think a real dangerous situation that comes up a lot and many folks don't stop to think about it, is when you're going around a corner and you let off on the gas, but don't need to hit the brakes. The big load behind you wants to go straight and you don't have enough rubber on the road to keep pulling it behind you. Many times it'll merrily sail off in a straight line and your truck will get dragged along in a jack-knifed position. That's what happened to me causing me to learn my lesson. And at the time, my trailer/truck combo was NOT over the GVWR of the truck, but it was running real close. That truck had single rear wheels and this is one of the areas where duallies have advantages.

rkbrown
10-07-2002, 10:06 AM
My F-250 Crew Cab PSD has a GVWR of 8,800 lbs. Wet, with tools and me and one other in the cab, I assume for arguments sake that the weight of my truck is 7,500 lbs. I will assume for a minute that you are towing using a gooseneck hitch, therefore approximately 20 - 25 % of the total weight of the loaded trailer is on the pin. 14,500 x .20 = 2900. Add that to my 7500 and I'm at 10,400 or 1,600 over my GVWR.

With a bumper pull setup I believe that 10-15% of the weight is on the hitch which yields a hitch weight (15% used) of 2175 which puts me 875 over GVWR.

scott's turf
10-07-2002, 10:09 AM
I looked at Fords site and the 7.3 diesel F250 has a GCWR of 20,000 and can tow 12,500 lbs. My truck is not turbo though. My friend said they towed it all the time with the F350 dualy and that has all the same specs. Not sure if it is too risky.

rkbrown
10-07-2002, 10:54 AM
In both scenarios above, I would be below my GCWR, but above my GVWR. If I were to be the responsible party in an accident towing that load and over my GVWR but under my GCWR, I would still have trouble (not be covered) as I would be violating the GVWR of the truck.

Gravel Rat
10-07-2002, 03:07 PM
Your better off getting a equipment mover to move the machine for you or a tow truck outfit with a heavy duty rollback truck it will be cheaper in the long run. That load you plan on pulling with your F-250 is gonna way exceed whats safe if you say the machine weighs 11,000lbs.

If this machine has steel tracks I would find a tow truck company that has a truck with a steel rollback deck I think if they showed up with a truck and a aluminum deck they wouldn't be too happy if you chewed up the aluminum.

Brickman
10-07-2002, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by rkbrown
My F-250 Crew Cab PSD has a GVWR of 8,800 lbs. Wet, with tools and me and one other in the cab, I assume for arguments sake that the weight of my truck is 7,500 lbs.


This truck runs around 7000. Shipping weight on the F 250 set up is 6800.

Brickman
10-07-2002, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by rkbrown
In both scenarios above, I would be below my GCWR, but above my GVWR. If I were to be the responsible party in an accident towing that load and over my GVWR but under my GCWR, I would still have trouble (not be covered) as I would be violating the GVWR of the truck.


Here DOT takes truck weight rating, and trailer and adds them together. For the truck shown above and this trailer that puts me at 29,800. I get real dang close to that with 4 cars. Or 3 full size trucks.

CT18fireman
10-07-2002, 06:01 PM
There is a difference between what it can tow and what it can tow safely. The 7.3 even normally apsirated can easily pull that weight. Notice I saw pull. I could see using the truck to move the trailer and loader around the shop or work site. Even to move it down a short stretch of road. I would not consider towing that load in any kind of traffic or for any distance. The truck may have the power but it does not have the mass, transfered by wieight onto the tires, to control the load even with trailer brakes.

Brickman
10-07-2002, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by CT18fireman
There is a difference between what it can tow and what it can tow safely. The 7.3 even normally apsirated can easily pull that weight. Notice I saw pull. I could see using the truck to move the trailer and loader around the shop or work site. Even to move it down a short stretch of road. I would not consider towing that load in any kind of traffic or for any distance. The truck may have the power but it does not have the mass, transfered by wieight onto the tires, to control the load even with trailer brakes.


Its been working for me. I can't afford a F 750 or FL 70 truck.

fastlane
10-07-2002, 07:16 PM
The book in my glovecompartment has a chart. Trailer wieght should be 10,400lbs(depends on opts.) Powerstroke could pull 20,000lbs no problem. But stopping is more important.

scott's turf
10-08-2002, 10:15 AM
The reason we are using my truck is because my buddies F450 has a broken sway bar. That truck has dualies but everything else is the same. Same engine too. He said that they towed with that truck all the time and had no problems. Is the main problem the lack of tire to road contact with my truck only having singles on the back? Brickman are you towing that trailer loaded with that F250? How does it handle? I am going to be on highways with little to no traffic. Picking it up tomorrow night. I will let you know how it goes.

Brickman
10-08-2002, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by scott's turf
Brickman are you towing that trailer loaded with that F250? How does it handle? I am going to be on highways with little to no traffic.


Yes I do haul with the F 250. While it isn't as stable as a dualie might be, I am getting by. With the addition of air bags to rear suspension it got a lot more stable. When loaded I will gross any where from 24,000 to 29,000. A front tire going flat with 4 cars on at 75 is no fun. :blob2:

scott's turf
10-08-2002, 01:54 PM
Brickman, I have the 7.3 diesel with no turbo. How torque and hp am I losing?

Brickman
10-08-2002, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by scott's turf
Brickman, I have the 7.3 diesel with no turbo. How torque and hp am I losing?

I don't know what the numbers are for your engine. But I can tell you it would never come close to running with my truck without the power chip. Even the Turbo diesel that was one step between yours and gen 1 PS will have more HP than the natural aspired 7.3.
Mine factory is 235 HP and 525 torque. With the power chip I am turning 310HP and dang near 700 lbs of torque.

You can put turbo kits on the older ones, and turn the fuel up. Dunno if you want to spend the $$ for it. If the truck is in good shape that would be cheaper than a new one. I had a friend that hopped a 6.9 F 250. That was a bad azz truck. With every thing he did to his, I bet it would run with mine.

With 3 or 4 cars on my trailer and not too much wind I can general hold 65 to 75 on the interstate. Longer hills will drag me back some. Between Cheyenne and Denver there is only 1 to 3 places that I drop out of 6th gear. All depends on traffic, wind, how heavy the load is.

scott's turf
10-08-2002, 03:37 PM
problem solved. Due to insurance issues we have to take my friends F450 and he is having it fixed right now.
That is one ballsey truck brickman. Thanks for your insight.

-Scott

Brickman
10-09-2002, 02:56 AM
Originally posted by scott's turf
That is one ballsey truck brickman.

-Scott

They will be/are growing. :D

Larger exhaust, maybe burn the chip hotter, once I get gauges, larger exhaust, and the propane kit installed. See my sig line about how much power a guy needs. :D :drinkup:

Nomoslowmow
10-09-2002, 10:26 AM
Hey Brickman-


Are you sure about the vehicle weight rating fomula in your earlier post? It seems that it lets you tow anything with anything, that is, if you add the weight rating of my wife's minivan (5400 pounds, I think) to your trailer it would be legal at over 20,000 pounds combined weight?

The whole purpose of a weight rating is to give guidance on how much you can tow safely. If you just add the truck and trailer maximum weights, there is no difference in trailer towing capacity between large and small vehicles. Something is missing, or I misunderstood what you meant.

Others have brought it up, too, but insurance companies will not cover a claim if the vehicle was over weight.......do you need a CDL if you are over 26,000 #?


Bob

Brickman
10-09-2002, 12:40 PM
Insurance company knows what I am doing. They know I am using a pick up and trailer capable of carrying 4 cars at a time. You got to list what you got and what you are doing with it. Commercial carrier insurance is 100 times the PITA that LC insurance is. To get LC insurance was so easy it was laughable. I thought I could just go to my agent, pay up $$$$ and walk out with insurance and be on my way. NOPE, took about a week, because I put so much pressure on them, and they put it to the insurance company. They said normally it can take up to 3 weeks or longer to get it taken care of.

The GCVR that I gave is what DOT goes by. Ford says not over 20,000. My truck is out of warranty, so there is little Ford can say. Yes if you could figure out how to pull my trailer with your minivan DOT would give you 26400 lbs Max weight. I have found out that what DOT does is NOT what always makes sense. As long as my loaded weight never exceeds 29,800 lbs I am OK in the eyes of DOT.

Yes you do need a CDL for over 26,000 lbs as long as you stay in state. If you weigh over 10,000 empty, or your rig is capable of carrying over 10,000 and you cross a state line then Fed laws say you need CDL. :dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy: Trust me it will make you dizzy trying to keep legal.

I have a Class A CDL with all the endorsments except for hazmat.

ProSeasons
10-29-2002, 02:44 AM
The 7.3 will tow it. Stopping a load is NOT dependant on the tractor or tow vehicle. The tractor only ACTIVATES the brakes on the unit (combination of loaded weight and the trailor braking systems) being towed. Stopping a trailer that is heavier than the tractor is the job OF THE TRAILER! Consider these examples, a 1996 Longnose Peterbuilt with a modified Cummins K Series block making 1000 HP weighs in at around 20,000 pounds with 300 gallons of diesel and my Big Gulp of Mountain Dew aboard. I can pull a trailer weighing 20,000 pounds LOADED with, what say, Bendix Brake Parts weighing 40,000 for a gross TRAILER weight of 60,000 pounds and a total DOT legal vehicle load of 80,000 pounds UP the Grapevine in California no sweat..........but if I think for a minute my measly tractor will stop this thing on the other side coming DOWN......I'm a dead man. The tractor's job is to PULL the load into motion down the road, and the trailer will PULL the vehicle to a STOP. Pulling weight is more effective than pushing it. Go outside and hook your tow rope to your hitch on your pick up. Push it...then pull it. Which was easier?

That's why the tractor is in front of the semi.

Do you think the six locomotives in front of a 2 mile long freight train bring it to stop?

ProSeasons
10-29-2002, 03:01 AM
Hey, Brickman!

When ya' gonna step up to some REAL Power!
Cummins Power, that is! Your truck is prettier but my Dodge would swallow yours whole!

450 horsepower 2001 H.O. Cummins 5.9 Turbo Diesel with 1000 pound feet of torque! Diesel Dynamics Stage 2 injectors, PowerEdge EZ timing and boost module, Banks Power Pack fueling box and Monster exhaust( 4" turbo to tail pipe!) and PsyScotty 2 Cold Ram Air induction with the new AFE filter and a Southbend Pulling Clutch, the Con FE.
And a Pac-Brake to slow it all down. That'll pull your car hauler!

Now THAT'S a TRUCK!

JUst messing with ya, Brickman!

:D

Brickman
10-29-2002, 06:10 AM
That may be an engine, but never a truck. :D I would take a cummins in the Ford, but do not want a Dodge just for the engine.

No doubt about it, that would pull it alright.

ProSeasons
10-29-2002, 04:29 PM
Brickman,

You may be right..........hmmmm a Cummins in a Ford dualie......
...oh yeah...I LIKE IT!

Brickman
10-29-2002, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by ProSeasons
Brickman,

You may be right..........hmmmm a Cummins in a Ford dualie......
...oh yeah...I LIKE IT!



When I get rich, ROFLMAO ouch, ouch my sides hurt. :D Yeah like that will ever happen. I am going to do that. Put a 12 valve 5.9 under the hood.

Dennis E.
10-29-2002, 09:23 PM
If ya' lived in South America.
The Ford Diesel site had an article about a SD,F-350 I think, that had the HO Cummins in it.
Built and sold down there.
Oh well...:rolleyes:

ProSeasons
10-30-2002, 12:24 AM
South America huh?

Me and Brickman are hoppin' a plane............:D

GreginAlaska
10-30-2002, 03:17 AM
I remember reading an article that said Ford had bought part of Cummins and they suggested that the Ford pickups might get the cummins engine...Too bad it never happened...up here at least.

Brickman
10-30-2002, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by GreginAlaska
I remember reading an article that said Ford had bought part of Cummins and they suggested that the Ford pickups might get the cummins engine...Too bad it never happened...up here at least.


According to my sources Ford never owned more than 10% in Cummins, and they sold that share years ago.
Yes too bad they didn't go ahead and put the Cummins in the Ford, but I am sure if they had, Dodge truck sales would have gone almost to nothing. There are not enough die hard Dodge guys to buy the truck without the engine.

landscaper3
11-03-2002, 10:04 PM
Call your local state police commercial division and get a hand book of your local laws! You sound to be way over weight and they will fine you big$$$$

Brickman
11-04-2002, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by landscaper3
Call your local state police commercial division and get a hand book of your local laws! You sound to be way over weight and they will fine you big$$$$





If you mean me the WY DOT says I am legal to 29,800 lbs. They take the truck capacity, and trailer capacity add em together to get that. Been weighed more than once by DOT scales at the port. No problem as long as I am under that.