eXmark lazer mulching

[Envy Lawn Service]

I've been thinking of buying a Lazer Z HP. Although the mulching system looks like it would be far superior to any other design, occasionally I have to switch from mulching to discharge in the field.

Seems to me it would be a good bit of work to switch back and forth. Please tell me it I'm wrong about this.

One thought I had was how much would it kill the performance if you left out the baffle that makes each blade in it's own chamber? Running only the mulch blades and discharge block off.

The UltraCut deck on the Lazer Z looks to have a pretty good baffle in it already. That brings me to my next question, what's the difference between the design of the UltraCut and TriVantage deck?

[eXmark]

Envy,

Thanks for the questions.

Generally we get pretty good comments on the performance of the mulch kit. Personally I don't like the way any multiple blade deck mulches with out individual chambers for each blade. Truthfully with out the baffles you’re probably not mulching at all. With out the baffles you can chop the clippings up to a fine consistency however that is only part of the mulching process.

In order to truly mulch you not only need to chop the clippings into smaller particles but you also need to deposit them as deeply as possible into the turf. If the clippings are left on top of the lawn they don't decompose very quickly. When deposited down low the clippings help retain water, and decompose at a higher rate to become nutrients for the lawn.

Without the baffles most of the clippings will transfer from one blade to the next until the reach the discharge block off plate when they create a pile of clippings that is usually very visible to the customer.

You’re right about switching back and forth. It's something that does take time but once you've done it a few times you can swap one out in about 20 minutes or so if the hardware isn't too rusted. Generally if your going to be swapping the kit off and on a lot I'd recommend stocking up on the appropriate nuts and bolts and fasteners for the kit. The most difficult part of swapping the kit on an off is going to be fighting with rusty bolts from all of the grass, fertilizer and moisture they are exposed to.


The TriVantage deck is really our claim to fame. It's what has make Exmark so successful, quality of cut. The basic TriVantage deck is now used through out our entire line up (or UltraCut) and allows us to side discharge, mulch and bag effectively from the same deck. With most deck designs they may bag well but don't mulch well or don't discharge well etc. Some may perform 2 of the 3 functions well but the TriVantage was the first to do all 3 and is still in the eyes of many the industry standard today. The UltraCut is just the next generation of the TriVantage deck.

The UltraCut deck is a little deeper and a little beefier to handle the higher ground speeds of the Lazer series.

Both are great cutting decks and both fit the machines they are on well. The big differences are in the characteristics of the machines each deck is attached too.

Demo both the Lazer and the Lazer HP and you'll see what I mean.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks

Terry

[Ssouth]

Envy Lawn Service,
I have the mulching kit installed on all of our ExMark mowers(5). I can take the baffles off in less than 5 mins. and put them on in ten(10) mins. There has been seveals times that I switch several times per day. Each property has its own need. I think you will find with ExMark, that it's very simple to change from side discharge to mulch or to vac. All are simple and only take a few minutes. Each has its own purpose and all of these techniques work well with the ExMark system.

For any specific questions e-mail me:
Ssouth11@bellsouth.net

[Grasshog]

i just bought the mulch kit today for my 60" LC Z. I"l let you know how easy it is to change around. I was planning on buying the stripe kit too but man o man. Its made with gold. Cant swing for that right

[Envy Lawn Service]

Grasshog,

Thanks, keep me informed! As far as the striping roller, have a welder fab you one for a fraction of the cost. Maybe if the rollers don't sell, they'll realize they are too expensive.

[eXmark]

Envy,

Now you went and opened a can of worms. I've had this itch to sell rollers for a while now and have just been looking for a chance to step up on a soapbox.

For some cutters it can take significant time and energy to land one of his/her better contracts and as we all know time is money. We also know that the time spent on a trailer is time spent not making money. Some of you are even battling companies that sell their services for less money than you do. Often times they don't do the quality of work that you do and the customer ultimately ends up getting what they paid for.

If for your $350 dollar investment someone sees your work and that lands you one of those premier accounts for a season that was a good investment. If that investment in the roller lands you one more job in a given neighborhood eliminating some trailering time between jobs that was a good investment. If that same roller leaves the lawn looking more professional, more manicured and more to the customers liking that may allow you to not only hold you current price and fend off the price cutter but maybe even raise the price as expenses go up each year. If you've got employees that maybe are not as particular as you are the roller can certainly take the customers attention away from the flower bed that may not have been cared for as well as you would have done it. If the wide roller in the back prevents you from scalping the lawn when you back out of a tight spot you may have avoided an unhappy customer. $350 for the roller is better than money in the bank if you accomplish even one of these.

I know that $350 sounds like a lot but if you look at what you have to gain, it's an easy choice. Price vs. value makes for good investment choices. Heck that sounds so good I should see if I could get a percentage.

That's may pitch. I like the rollers; I like them a lot. The feedback we've gotten from the field and from our dealers has been wonderful. Thanks for listening.

Terry

[Green Pastures]

Terry,

You're right, I'm reading between the lines of course, but you're right. We in the lawn care biz can be pretty brutal in our complaining about customers who are always trying to talk us down $5, but we browbeat our dealers and suppliers to death about .50 cents on a mulching blade.

What comes around goes around.........or
Do unto others what you would have them do to you.

Scott

[eXmark]

Green Pastures,

Yah, I guess cost is an issue but I was really trying to focus more on the benefits of the EZ striper.

I got a call from a large cutter who had a very profitable account at some corporate headquarters. This guys sends out several crews each day and the account ended up on the route of one of his less experienced crews. After we talked he ordered the roller. Turns out that the CEO was the one most upset about the grass. He likes to look out his big picture window at the lawn and it gives him a break from what ever pressures he is under at that moment. Now he looks out at a lawn that reminds him of the country club that he doesn't get to spend much time at now that he's at the office doing CEO stuff all the time. Customer happy, account saved and well worth the 350 potatoes. For this cutter it not only saved the account but he didn't spend hours on the phone or in person trying to smooth everything over and he wasn't forced to go out and find a replacement account. That's a major reduction of the stress and hassle factor, which is worth a lot to some of us.

Thanks

Terry

[deason]

Envy Lawn -
They speak the truth on the mulching system, it is second to none. I have customers swear that the grass is bagged. There is some getting used to the amount of power that it takes to run this system. You can't go into a 2 week growth lawn and expect to run full blast. I have learned (with great advise from this forum) cutting the grass low and working it back to a uniform height is critical. In other words, you have to "train the grass for the mower". This system does not like tall, uneven grass. This system works at it's best when you are cutting weekly, well established lawns

Terry,

You said earlier that the ultra cut deck is deeper and beefier built. With this added depth of the deck, will this add some volume inside so that the mower will be more productive?
What immediate differences do you see?

[eXmark]

Deason,

Personally I don't see that much difference. Some of the guys see a greater degree of performance separation than I do. What I see is that the full size Lazer is generally used at higher speeds in areas with more open space. I see the Lazer Z HP used on smaller properties that allow you to mow at full speed for short bursts rather than long high speed passes. The real differences lie in the machines each deck is attached to.

Please also keep in mind that we're talking about some fairly smooth mowing conditions. More often than not both machines are limited only by the amount of abuse you want to put yourself through while sitting in the saddle. The mower can quite often handle more grass than bumps your willing to take. Throw in operator ability to make turns, stops and maneuver with out damaging the turf and it really becomes unclear what the advantages of each machine are.

If you take terrain, and operator ability out of the equation you should find that the full size Lazer with the UltraCut deck should cut a larger volume of grass than the Lazer HP in large wide open areas. The Lazer HP should have the advantage on smaller tighter areas with large numbers of obstacles to trim around.

Both deck designs fit the machines they are attached to extremely well. Both also utilize the same TriVantage technology we've used for several years, which includes the ability to bag, side discharge and mulch well from one mower deck.

Thanks

Terry

[John Gamba]

TERRY
Is This the Country Club your talking about:D :D :D :D
Johnny G.

[John Gamba]

OR IS IT THIS ONE:D LOVE THAT ROLLER! John

[eXmark]

Johnny G,

I see, the G stands for Golf, or is it greens. Great pics.

Thanks

Terry

[John Gamba]

Terry i forgot. The top picture is with roller. The bottom is with OUT.
john

[Envy Lawn Service]

Between the people here, people in other forums and a dealer that's working hard for my business...I've decided to give Exmark a second look. I'm going to check out a 60" Lazer tomorrow! He has them in the 23HP model. Is that enough power for mulching with a 60"???

[deason]

Envy Lawn -

I have th 23 kohler on the 52" hp. I wish I got the kawi instead (when mulching). Check out the specs on the engines. You will see the Kawi builds more torque at certian rpms.

Don't get me wrong, the kohler is a good engine but I see the lack of power it has when running the mulch system. Lug this engine under 3000 rpms and it will "give up".Without the mulch system installed, it is a monster. Since you are looking at the 60", I suggest larger than the 23 and lean towards the Kawi if you are going to be doing a large amount of mulching.

[eXmark]

Envy,

Is the 23 hp enough? That's kinda like asking how much money is enough? No, 23 hp isn't enough. It's not enough until the ground speed is fast enough to peal paint and give you enough adrenaline rush to induce convulsions after you step off of the machine. It's not enough power until you can smell the charred remains of the drive tires from a burnout left in front of the account that just dropped you for the dude down the street that just under bid you. If you’re planning on cutting grass that's another issue however.

Personally I can't really tell much if any difference between the 23 and the 25. I suppose if your in some really thick, lush conditions you might be able to notice a difference but I can not emphasize enough the word might. I just can’t tell much difference between the two engines. If the 23 won’t meet your expectations the 25 probably won’t either and you may want to consider the 26EFI or the 27 Kawi liquid cooled. .

The 23 has been a great engine. It came out after the issues with the 25 and has been one of if not the most reliable powerplants Kohler has produced in many years. It's really been as solid engine. Truthfully we don't have many issues with the 25 any more either but the reputation is still there for some.

From what I've seen personally and the feedback I've gotten from several customers the 23 should be enough power. I'd recommend demoing one and formulating your own opinion however.

Thanks

Terry

[John Gamba]

Envy
Go With the FI Kohlers. The few Dollar's More Is worth It. GREAT FUEL ECONOMY/ GREAT POWER. SMOOTHHHHHH.
John.

[Bill Davis]

I have a 23 hp. Kaw. 52" Lazer HP. and this thing makes grass and leaves disappear when used properly. I like this mulching system much better that other mowers that i have demoed and used extinsively. So, congrats to Exmark for a great all around machine.:D :)

[Grasshog]

Envey, I use the 27 Hp LQ Lazer. It has plentty of power. More than needed. I"m sure the 23 is fine. The mulch kit does great.
Ive been very pleased since installing it.
I guess if I'm going to get this Exmark to stripe Like the Bobcat or Scag I"m going to dig deep and get a roller.

[Envy Lawn Service]

Well, I can say that I like all of exmark's equipment now. I got to check out alot today. The dealer says the 23/60 setup is his best seller. He also said he has a guy with 2 of them. One set up to mulch and the other discharge only. I talked to him and he's happy with the performance.

However, I did talk to another guy there that has a 60" and a 52" HP. He says if he had it to do over, he would have just got two 52" HP's. So I don't know.

I finally got to see the 44" and 48" set up. The 48" has just a little trim but I don't know if it's enough. However, the 44" has NONE. In relation to these, the 60" has a lot.

But boy oh boy, I also talked to another guy there that had his Lazer pulled from the lake a good while back. The grass wasn't 100% dry. It slipped and once it did, there was no stopping it!

SPLASH!!!! :blob3: :blob2:

I guess with all the owners I got to talk with, you can tell there was a good steady rain all day. That's a good time to find fellow cutters hanging around getting stuff serviced and shooting the bull.

In all it was worth the distance I drove. But I'm not 100% sold on Exmark or ZTR's in general yet. I think now is a good time to go back and inspect some of the other ZTR's with pivoting front axles and such. I hear rumors that those handle hills and rough terrain better. I don't know if that's the case or not.

I want to demo the exact unit I'm considering buying before handing over any $$GREEN$$ . In fact, I want to demo some other brands too. But I will not buy anything until it's proven on my terrain. End of story.

[John Gamba]

Envy
Take a look at gravely's web when they change It. I Think They are getting rid Of the pivoting Axel. I've Had them Before And don't have them anymore.
Go Fi Kohler:D
Johnny G.

[Envy Lawn Service]

I checked the site. They got new machines on there sinc I looked last. It looks like the new small machines don't have the pivoting axle in front. But, I'll find out when I call back to the dealer.

As for the use of the pivoting axle, Gravely dealers swear it's a big plus for extra contol ond uneven terrain and for handleing hills better.

I don't know hat the truth is. But I don't think it would hurt to have the option to lock it in a rigid position. It does seem that it could cause some problems in certain areas.

Now I do wish I could go for the Kohler EFI Lazer or the liquid cooled model. But with the prices I've gotten on the standard models, I'm AFRAID to even ask what one costs!!!

[John Gamba]

Envy
I don't know what they cost In North carolina(I will fined Out in Two year'sMorsville to be exact) But In 2002 My 26 EPS cost 9000.
Well worth the extra For One the fuel saving's The extra power the seat And all the updates.
Gravely Has the Pin so they can Run all the New jrco stuff like the rest Of us Do. And Yhey have Been haveing problems With Bumpy Ground.
John

[Envy Lawn Service]

Moving to Mooresville NC??? If so that's near Lake Norman. This is a very happening area for those of us in this business. Lots of Lake community properties. People with jobs over in Charlotte with long hours and good pay. Can you say jackpot??? They wouldn't have time to mow even if they wanted to.

There is also lots of business growth!

[John Gamba]

Envy
Once I Learn To Spell It I Will Move There. but yes In a sub called Marthas Vinyard 8 Miles From The lake.
Are You By There? I Will only Mow part time. Probably Small stuff like how i started. I don't Think i could go to long without hearing That Lazer warming up in mornining. seeing that cut grass flying out of The ULTRACUT Deck.
I hear alot Of good things about the people there (AND I BELIVE THEM.)
If You are by The sub I have a favor To ask. But first Do you have a digital Camera? If You do Would you take a picture Of the sub Called Marthas Vinyard. If You don't have a camera i will see you get one to Keep.
I will be coming down there In spring Would like to meet you. I'll See if I Can bring my mowers so you can demo them(I Do have a wide variety):laugh:
I Will get the exact street for you If You are able To do this(Connecticut Suck's so bad)Need help!
Your future Neighbor John G.

[blades94]

Envy:
Up here in michigan we are in the peak of doing the leaves for the fall. I have been running Exmark machines since 1992 and would never go to anything else. I started with a viking 48" machine with a mulch kit The mulch kit would never see the machine till August. Now I have a 36" Turf Tracer HP, 2 48" Turf Tracer HP's and this year I added a 60" Lazer. Other companies drool over the work that my crew does. The 60 and 1 of the 48's have the mulching system on them and we don't pick up 1 leaf. Yesterday we were working just down the street from another company where they were raking and loading into a dump truck. We showed up after them and were gone before they finished. I can't say enough about Exmark equipment. Yes it does cost a bit much but you get what you pay for. Give them oil and air and they will repay you for every cent you spend.

I am going to get some photos before and after of the great job that the Mulching system does!!!

Terry:
The lazer that I have is not cutting at the proper level. I have it set at 4.5 but teh blades measure about 3.25. Is there a after hours fix that I can do or should I take it to the dealer.

[eXmark]

Blades,

You can correct it yourself but I'd recommend taking it to the dealer. Here's why. You can really only get about a 1/2" change in cutting height with the adjustments. If your cutting 1" low you have more going on than a simple deck leveling. You're going to need to look at tires as well as wear or damage in the deck lift mechanism. Because we're just talking about an adjustment I'd take it in and have it looked at.

The adjustment itself isn't the simplest thing you'll run into and before tackling that I'd recommend looking at the adjustment video which is p/n 850450 and retails for $10. Your dealer should be able to order one in for you or have one he might loan out.

The good news is that all of these components as well as the adjustments were changed in 2002 and not only are the adjustments much simpler but the wear components have been improved as well. The bad news is that these changes are significant enough that I would not classify them as a retrofit.

Thanks

Terry

[Lawn-N-Garden Guy]

I have a mulcher on my 48 Ex-Mark ZTR and its the best thing since sliced bread, I love it .
I side dis. in the spring till the grass slowes a little and then slap the mulcher on for the rest of the year or till its rains so much I loose control then I go back to discharge till it dries out.
I JUST BOUGHT A ULTRA VAC AND NOT SURE IF I LIKE THE MULCH KIT BETTER !!!

[brucec32]

Those lawns done with rollers look great. But I have to wonder what the limitations are. It certainly looks like a feature for high end lawns only.

Seems to me you have to be very careful to mow extra straight, since the highly accently lines now would stand out more if you got them crooked. Doesn't this slow you down?

Are there really that many clients out there willing to pay extra if this does take more time and effort? I see there are, but seems like it's harder to find them.

Can the roller be retracted for areas where you don't want stripes?

What about smaller or less uniform areas? Doesn't it look odd to have these rolled lanes curving around some areas? I mow in rows too, but in some small areas it just isn't practical, with the damage done by constant turning outweighing any esthetic advantages of rows for sure.

I live in a pretty affluent area and I've only rarely seen any lawns done like this. I wonder if the costs of providing this (equipment, time, training) are worth the benefits in sales.

Finally, while it looks great, it also looks unnatural, and that might turn some people off. The best lawns I see are ones that don't look "mowed" at all. They just look neat and natural.

I notice a lot of the photos of stripped lawns I see seem very lush, like they're done in the springtime. The thing is, here in Atlanta in the spring, every lawn looks great after being mowed already. The rollers just add a little more emphasis to the rows. The rest of the year I dont' know if it'd make as stunning of a difference.


As for the hp vs. full size lazer. I also have to wonder what putting some of these big beasts on residential lawns does to the turf. Here we have a lot of Fescue, and it just doesn't hold up in summer. Even my small HP will put a nasty divot in drought/heat stressed or wet turf if you're not careful. I would actually be more interested in a lighter version of the lazer than a bigger one. More as a quasi-walkbehind class mower. Say 750 lbs, with 16-18hp and a 36" deck, yet still sturdy. unlike homeowner models I've seen around. During this rainy fall I had to use a 36" walk behind a lot (too much ) because even my 950 lb Lazer HP left ruts in the moist soil and damaged turf on hills, even days after it rained.

The big mowers are of course supreme on big open areas, but we don't have many of those in the burbs. I'd urge Exmark to look into smaller versions as well as expanding the lineup upwards in power and size. Not that I'm complaining, but even my Lazer HP seems almost overbuilt in terms of frame strength and durability. The hydros/engine/tires/etc will wear out past the point of economic viability way before the frame will.

Perhaps some buyers would trade some of that overbuilt strength for a lighter, handier, cheaper version. Might open up the homeowner market to exmark, too if they can come up with sub $5K versions. I'm starting to see really cheaply built versions at home centers. Perhaps Exmark could do it better and capture the market there.

[John Gamba]

Roller isn't easy To adjust. Like You Said You dont see Much Of It around Your town. BE The First!!

[Ricks Z28]

I only reset my EZ Striper twice a year. In the spring I set it to the height that I mow the lowest at. For example, if I mow at 3" on one property and all the rest at a higher level, I keep it set at the 3" setting. The reason is at that setting the Striper is always laying over about 2.25 " of grass all the time. The Striper is always that distance below the cutting blades. In the fall I reset the Striper lower to feed the leaves in under the deck for grinding. Works like a " Charm"