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DA Quality Lawn & YS
06-29-2011, 03:28 PM
I received a letter from the MN dept of ag today regarding imprellis. It wasn't very informative other than they have been receiving complaints about tree damage and they wan't users of imprellis to fill out an online survey.
Posted via Mobile Device

I too got both the DuPont letter and MNDOA letter. I am not certain though if I want to fill out the survey - I have yet to see any damage on the few lawns that I used Imprelis on AND I really don't want the state bothering me. If it is completely anonymous then perhaps I will do....

phasthound
06-29-2011, 04:04 PM
Just an update from our neighborhood - the spruces are now stone dead and all the pines that first showed signs of damage to their candles (new growth) now have gotten worse. The tops of the pines are brown and the browning is progressing down the tree. It is only a matter of weeks before the pines are stone dead too. We are talking over 50 trees that were at least 15 feet tall. Thank goodness the damage is only in the common areas which were sprayed and not the individual homeowner lawns. This is NOT a disease or weather issue since evergreens in homeowner lawns are all healthy.

I hope Imprelis was not used in Longwood Gardens.

Grassworks Inc.
06-29-2011, 06:19 PM
Just an update from our neighborhood - the spruces are now stone dead and all the pines that first showed signs of damage to their candles (new growth) now have gotten worse. The tops of the pines are brown and the browning is progressing down the tree. It is only a matter of weeks before the pines are stone dead too. We are talking over 50 trees that were at least 15 feet tall. Thank goodness the damage is only in the common areas which were sprayed and not the individual homeowner lawns. This is NOT a disease or weather issue since evergreens in homeowner lawns are all healthy.

One of my employee's drove through there yesterday, couldn't believe it. He brought back a branch from a burning bush that looked like Imprelis damage too.

phillie
06-29-2011, 06:41 PM
I'm not going to read through 26 pages of posts but, I have 3 trees on 1 property completely toasted. I believe they are norway spruces. Luckily the guy just wants me to cut them down and replace one with another in the same line that wasnt effected. I emailed dupont at the email in the letter they sent out 2 1/2 weeks ago and never got a reply. All I asked was how long after an application can I replace a tree with another tree. Does anyone have this info or are we all still in the dark? I personally have stopped using all dupont products until they actually treat me like a customer instead of a fly on the wall. I think imprelis is a good product for certain applications but duponts cust. serv. sucks.

XYZLawnPros
06-29-2011, 07:23 PM
Looks like Imprelis has been taken off the shelves
and taken away from the distributors in Rochester
Minnesota.

jbturf
06-29-2011, 09:30 PM
talked to a sara xx from dupnt 2day, said she was just collecting data,
wanted to know how many trees i need replaced?

i got no info from her, but im not under the impression all the effected trees
would need to be replaced- at least i wasnt

do you suppose they know the fate of most of these effected trees?

seemed odd, anyways -im still trying to create a detailed list of my effected accts
and trees

DA Quality Lawn & YS
06-29-2011, 09:53 PM
Looks like Imprelis has been taken off the shelves
and taken away from the distributors in Rochester
Minnesota.

Brad pulled it out of Reinders Roch?

XYZLawnPros
06-29-2011, 09:56 PM
Yes DA, although he wouldn't admit to me if it was by choice, corporate
or a dupont recall.

wintergreen82
06-29-2011, 11:03 PM
DA
I'm glad that they pulled it. I have been hassling them everyday. Still no answers. Went to another property and 5 trees were smoked. They say do not spray in the drip line but if you were to see these trees there is no way you could. Dupont had better not be even trying to use this as an excuse. I sprayed with a spray gun tee jet 1.5 gpm tip spraying at 2gpm. mix rate was 4.5 oz/acre. some tanks were spiked with 48-60oz of vessel. After the hot streak I went to straight imprellis. I have 2 trees that have damage in a little grove. they are high canopy trees atleast 20ft high. No way it was off target drift. Jerry is on vacation so I havent talked to him. One of my friends in the city said he has seen them come back a little bit. I have a lot of pictures on my phone and documenting everything. I also have two trees 8ft apart and one is messed up the other has zero signs of infection. Dupont better come up with an answer and soon.

DA Quality Lawn & YS
06-30-2011, 01:39 AM
wg - I hope this comes to a decent resolution for you (and others affected).
I applied to a small portion of my lawns with a PG. I have yet to see damage from apps early May. But, still looking every 10 days or so.

MnLefty
06-30-2011, 09:01 AM
I can't help but wonder if Dupont's response to this is affected by their limited product selection and sales to turf professionals? The only two Dupont products an LCO would use in my area are Imprelis and Acelepryn. Is it possible they are dragging their feet because they honestly don't stand to lose as much as say somebody like PBI Gordon?

Imagine if PBI Gordon had brought out Imprelis and had this issue. With the entire lawn care community threatening or likely to stop buying Trimec, SpeedZone, Q4 etc, etc, etc... they would have no choice but to be MUCH more proactive in response.

mclanc85
06-30-2011, 09:34 AM
Posted via Mobile Device

mclanc85
06-30-2011, 09:38 AM
This is a nightmare. I'm seeing damage on Pines and spruce but I'm also seeing it on small dogwoods and redbuds. It seems anything with a shallow root system is getting hit. Has anyone heard of anyway to slow it down?
Posted via Mobile Device

NattyLawn
06-30-2011, 10:31 AM
The tree guy from my former employer is seeing damage on oaks on 3 properties treated by the same company and shrubs close to the lawn border. I told him I haven't read anything on damage to oaks and to call the extension office and let them know.

White Gardens
06-30-2011, 10:32 AM
I can't help but wonder if Dupont's response to this is affected by their limited product selection and sales to turf professionals? The only two Dupont products an LCO would use in my area are Imprelis and Acelepryn. Is it possible they are dragging their feet because they honestly don't stand to lose as much as say somebody like PBI Gordon?


Personally I think they are covering their butts right now. I willing to assume that they know they have a major issue on their hands and they are making sure they have all their legal ducks in a row before any statements are made. Once they start admitting damage and paying out damage claims, then basically they are admitting fault.

The people making money off this situation is the Lawyers for Dupont.

Grassworks Inc.
06-30-2011, 05:42 PM
I can't help but wonder if Dupont's response to this is affected by their limited product selection and sales to turf professionals? The only two Dupont products an LCO would use in my area are Imprelis and Acelepryn. Is it possible they are dragging their feet because they honestly don't stand to lose as much as say somebody like PBI Gordon?

Imagine if PBI Gordon had brought out Imprelis and had this issue. With the entire lawn care community threatening or likely to stop buying Trimec, SpeedZone, Q4 etc, etc, etc... they would have no choice but to be MUCH more proactive in response.

DuPont has several T&O products that they hope to roll out in the next 2-3 years. The Benlate issue knocked them out of the T&O market for roughly 20 years, until they introduced Acelepryn. If they don't handle this correctly they might as well go back and hide under a rock for the next 20 years.

Grassworks Inc.
06-30-2011, 05:47 PM
Did anyone else get an email from someone at DuPont today? It had useful tips for dealing with trees under stress. What a hoot.

RABBITMAN11
06-30-2011, 06:23 PM
Run down on the meeting with the dupont investigator..We meet this morning talked about how long I've been in business type of equipment. Asked about spray rate, volume, and dates of applications, and if i used anything else in the tank with imprellis. We went to about five properties. He took notes regarding the damage. Bottom line the meeting was to examine properties take a report on his findings. The investigators will be looking at as many properties as he can for the next two weeks. After that i have no Idea of what comes next.

dandd75
06-30-2011, 06:40 PM
To the question as to when to replant, I think we are dealing with unknowns. But if you go down to the compost test headline in this article, it appears that Ohio State University did some test to see how long Imprelis stayed in affected compost. It appears after 200 days just 60 percent of the chemical degraded. So my own guess would not to plant until next year, if one is take that a guide.
http://www.jgpress.com/archives/_free/002374.html

dandd75
06-30-2011, 06:47 PM
Also I found this from the ISA about herbicide injury and trees. The article is 23 years old, so of course Imprelis was not invented, but assuming drift was not he issue, and it was from uptake in the soil, the advice on Dicamba injury may be the best guide to use.
http://joa.isa-arbor.com/request.asp?JournalID=1&ArticleID=2238&Type=2

JoJo1990
06-30-2011, 08:09 PM
Has anyone seen a spruce that showed signs of damage start to recover on its own yet?

grassman177
06-30-2011, 08:11 PM
guys, have the dupont rep coming to my shop tomorrow at 7 am. we are going to the few places i have damage on to look them over, take samples etc. will let you know what is up. i think they are starting to take claims now. he is bringing claim forms for us so.......

doesnt help that we are in 100 degree temps for a couple of days and no rain!!!!!!!!!!! these trees are gonna get worse i can tell already

Penncare
06-30-2011, 10:54 PM
The people who will make the most will be the first law firm to have a class action certified. IMHO the medium to small lcos and homeowners will be hurt the most.

Triton37
07-02-2011, 10:14 AM
This is a nightmare. I'm seeing damage on Pines and spruce but I'm also seeing it on small dogwoods and redbuds. It seems anything with a shallow root system is getting hit. Has anyone heard of anyway to slow it down?
Posted via Mobile Device

Essential Plus made by growth products is what I used for tree and shrub damaged by weed control. Saved us thousands of dollars however only do this if you aren't planning on seeking financial claims. You will nullify responsibilities of any other parties involved and assume all risk yourself.

Triton37
07-02-2011, 10:21 AM
Of the 1,000 clients we only have damage on 2 Spruce trees. One client is cutting it down anyhow and the other is hoping we can save it by using Essential Plus. Imprellis app was done on May 12th and just found out about the damage last week. Wish we caught the damage much sooner because I know we could have neutralized it in the soil fast if it was just a week after initial damage. Neutralizing 52 afterwards certainly won't prevent new tissue damage but I'm hoping it will speed recovery since we only had 30% of the spruce canopy affected. Its 45-50' tall in a prime focal point location for her.

compostmulch
07-04-2011, 12:00 PM
Here are some photos from Wooster, Ohio of a strip between a road and subdivision where a commercial applicator apparently used Imprelis. Note that there are absolutely no symptoms in residents identical trees in areas where herbicides were not applied.

One third of trees are completely dead, two thirds show symptoms and one third appear minimally affected. At least 40 trees affected. Note tip curling which is a clear symptom of herbicide poisoning.

compostmulch
07-04-2011, 12:09 PM
Here are more photos of the area affected by Imprelis in Wooster. Details to come on application date, rate and other compounds used.

Last picture shows residents trees where no herbicide was applied.

grassman177
07-04-2011, 02:36 PM
looks identical to what i have seen. what a tragedy. i have yet to get the details of what the dupont rep told my dad as i was in the field and could not meet personally, but i will let you guys know

LAWN ESCAPE
07-11-2011, 12:48 PM
I wouldn't put out a panic signal yet.
According to the DuPont rep I spoke with, Dicamba is actually worse via root uptake than Imprelis is. And I have yet to kill a tree using a product containing Dicamba, even sprayed right up to the trunk.

More info, please. What application method was used, what rate, etc?

----------
Your reference to "According to the DuPont rep I spoke with, dicamba is actually worse..." is hearsay (no proof, just words).

LAWN ESCAPE
07-11-2011, 05:23 PM
Imprelis was applied to my lawn and trees are taking a hit. I will try to post pics tonight. Spruces and Maple trees. Even the lawn itself seems to be having issues...:cry:


-------

Did you ever post your Imprelis damage pics?

mrmean
07-11-2011, 05:49 PM
-------

Did you ever post your Imprelis damage pics?

Yes, here
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?p=4062284#post4062284

DA Quality Lawn & YS
07-11-2011, 06:52 PM
----------
Your reference to "According to the DuPont rep I with, dicamba is actually worse..." is hearsay (no proof, just words).

Not my words, Dupont sales rep's words.

justanotherhomeowner
07-11-2011, 10:17 PM
Just wanted to give you guys a little update since my original post in this thread which can be found on page 15. I just noticed damage tonight on trees that previously had shown no damage at all. Damage is still getting worse on some trees (Douglas Firs and spruces) while damage on other trees has leveled off. For reference, imprelis was applied on my lawn in late march.

gqnine44
07-12-2011, 01:16 PM
I havent read every page in this post but let me ask about this...

I have noticed damage to many many spruces and white pines around the area - thankfully not in my lawns yet (that I know about) BUT I have also noticed damage with the twisting and curling of branches in lawns that clearly were not sprayed with Imprellis. Driving around today I saw at least two places where the lawns were covered in clover and other weeds and the trees were still damaged with what looks like Imprelis Damage. Is is possible something else is going on? Is it only herbicide damage that can cause the twisting and curling of branches?

justanotherhomeowner
07-12-2011, 01:51 PM
I havent read every page in this post but let me ask about this...

I have noticed damage to many many spruces and white pines around the area - thankfully not in my lawns yet (that I know about) BUT I have also noticed damage with the twisting and curling of branches in lawns that clearly were not sprayed with Imprellis. Driving around today I saw at least two places where the lawns were covered in clover and other weeds and the trees were still damaged with what looks like Imprelis Damage. Is is possible something else is going on? Is it only herbicide damage that can cause the twisting and curling of branches?

That is unusual as I was told by several arborists that twisting and curling of new growth is usually indicative of herbicide poisoning. Maybe imprelis was sprayed on an adjacent property and the spruce trees roots stretched out far enough and absorbed some of the herbicide? Can you post pictures of what you are seeing?

Mark Oomkes
07-12-2011, 02:57 PM
I havent read every page in this post but let me ask about this...

I have noticed damage to many many spruces and white pines around the area - thankfully not in my lawns yet (that I know about) BUT I have also noticed damage with the twisting and curling of branches in lawns that clearly were not sprayed with Imprellis. Driving around today I saw at least two places where the lawns were covered in clover and other weeds and the trees were still damaged with what looks like Imprelis Damage. Is is possible something else is going on? Is it only herbicide damage that can cause the twisting and curling of branches?

And on the flip side, I believe that Imprelis has been pulled from the shelves, if there is no problem with the product, why not continue selling it?

Course, if I'm wrong, then this post makes no sense, but that wouldn't be a first for me. :hammerhead:

gqnine44
07-12-2011, 03:46 PM
And on the flip side, I believe that Imprelis has been pulled from the shelves, if there is no problem with the product, why not continue selling it?

Course, if I'm wrong, then this post makes no sense, but that wouldn't be a first for me. :hammerhead:

I'm just asking to be devil's advocate and also because I have seen damage on what I believe are non-Imprellis treated lawns. I will try to get some pictures. I dont know what is going on but something is. It will be very interesting to see how this all shakes out.

Imprelis still available here...Saw it at JDL today

Shegardi
07-12-2011, 04:11 PM
And on the flip side, I believe that Imprelis has been pulled from the shelves, if there is no problem with the product, why not continue selling it?

Course, if I'm wrong, then this post makes no sense, but that wouldn't be a first for me. :hammerhead:

Imprelis has not been pulled from shelves by all (or by Dupont).

americanlawn
07-12-2011, 06:16 PM
Need clear photos. Imprellis damage is caused by root uptake.

I havent read every page in this post but let me ask about this...

I have noticed damage to many many spruces and white pines around the area - thankfully not in my lawns yet (that I know about) BUT I have also noticed damage with the twisting and curling of branches in lawns that clearly were not sprayed with Imprellis. Driving around today I saw at least two places where the lawns were covered in clover and other weeds and the trees were still damaged with what looks like Imprelis Damage. Is is possible something else is going on? Is it only herbicide damage that can cause the twisting and curling of branches?

Mark Oomkes
07-12-2011, 06:25 PM
Imprelis has not been pulled from shelves by all (or by Dupont).

So just certain stores have pulled it? Or is that a rumor?

grassman177
07-12-2011, 09:32 PM
got a call from dupont investigative team today getting more info about the sites and recording to make it official on paper with us and they asked about specific site info, if some needed replaced etc. found it relieving a bit, but if is far from over

Shegardi
07-12-2011, 10:07 PM
So just certain stores have pulled it? Or is that a rumor?

None of my local suppliers have pulled it, though some may have elsewhere, would not know about them. I would think it is still a great product for wide open spaces. I have not used it (though I had planned to before the problems started), but have seen the weed results and they are very very good.

justanotherhomeowner
07-13-2011, 06:27 PM
Just a heads up for everyone. When you search "Imprelis" on google an ad shows up for a law firm that states they are taking complaints from:

"landscapers and property owners that use of Imprelis on lawns has damaged and led to the death of adjacent trees, including white pine and Norway spruce trees. Substantial tree damage has been reported throughout the Midwest, in East Coast states, and as far south as Georgia."

I guess it was only a matter of time. I have left out the name of the company on purpose as I don't know if they are legit or not. Use your best judgment I guess.

Penncare
07-14-2011, 10:22 PM
Dupont failed to keep the lid on it, so to speak as it made it to the New York Times today. Now comes the fighting over which law firms get to be the primary litigators for the class action suits and of course there will be companies which elect not be be a member of the class and go it alone. The lawyers will buy yatchs, the landscapers will file for bankruptcy. Even those lucky enough to be compensated will get it in a mere 5-10years. As the article makes clear, even for the people who will be covered by their insurance, each incident will likely create a seperate "incident" and deductable. The insurance companies are already gearing up for the fun and remember, just because they are "your" insurance company does not mean they are looking out for "your" interests. The fun begins, everyone gets sued, everyone is a named defendant, insurance companies sue insurance companies for subrogation of claims, and the lawyers, and the experts they will hire, grin like a crack head who just found a bag of crack.

Fletcher Reede
07-15-2011, 01:23 AM
Is weedkiller killing trees?
New DuPont herbicide is suspected of backfiring

Thursday, July 14, 2011 03:07 AM
BY JIM WEIKER

The Columbus Dispatch


TAYLOR GLASCOCK | DISPATCH
Evergreens with browning needles have become a common sight in central Ohio since the spring application of Imprelis.

TAYLOR GLASCOCK | DISPATCH
The damage to evergreens from Imprelis is "the lawn-care industry's Katrina," says Mark Wehinger, a partner in the Dublin lawn-care company Environmental Management.
GOING GREEN

Read more stories about conservation and the environment at Dispatch.com/green
An herbicide introduced last fall as an ideal weedkiller is now the chief suspect in the death of thousands of trees in central Ohio and beyond.

"This is the lawn-care industry's Katrina," said landscaper Mark Wehinger, referring to the devastating 2005 hurricane.

Wehinger, a partner in the Dublin lawn-care company Environmental Management, estimates that the herbicide has killed more than 1,000 of his customers' trees.

The herbicide, called Imprelis, was introduced by DuPont in October but was not widely used until this spring. It was quickly adopted by lawn-care companies and golf-course managers after being touted for its effectiveness in fighting weeds such as dandelions and for its relatively small environmental footprint.

Industry sources estimate that 75 percent of central Ohio landscapers and golf courses switched to Imprelis this year. DuPont has not introduced a consumer version.

Three or four weeks after the herbicide was applied, workers and homeowners noticed that some trees' branch tips curled and browned, and needles began dropping from evergreens. Damage ranged from bare and twisted treetops to skeletal trees barren of needles.

"On evergreens, you'll see anything from yellowing on the tips to browning of the whole tree," said Chris Ahlum, vice president of Ahlum & Arbor Tree Preservation in Hilliard, who estimates that he has been called to check 50 properties with the problems.

Norway spruce, blue spruce and white pine have the most damage, Ahlum and others said, but they also report problems on honeylocusts, maples, oaks, walnuts, redbuds, cottonwoods, birches, viburnums and taxus.

Local landscapers are convinced that Imprelis is the problem.

"The only thing that changed this year was the Imprelis, so we're confident that is the sole reason we have some of the damage," said Devon Stanley, maintenance-division manager of Benchmark Landscape Construction in Plain City.

Ohio State University's Extension agents reached the same conclusion. After receiving calls about dying spruces and pines, agents noted in an online bulletin that "a common denominator of this particular damage on these samples appears to be ... Imprelis."

In a June 17 letter, DuPont acknowledged complaints about the product and advised users to avoid spraying near Norway spruces and white pines, or to not "make contact with trees, shrubs and other desirable plants." DuPont said it is investigating the issue; it stopped short of attributing the problems to Imprelis.

"We still have folks in the field who are looking into understanding what the circumstances are around the unusual symptoms and whether Imprelis may have contributed to them," said DuPont spokeswoman Kate Childress.

Childress would not say how many complaints DuPont has received about the herbicide; she said they appear focused in some Midwestern states, including Ohio.

"It's too early to say" whether DuPont will reimburse landscapers or homeowners for tree damage, Childress said.

DuPont's response, which included suggestions that lawn-care companies improperly applied Imprelis, has angered some in the industry.

"DuPont took no accountability, no responsibility; it gave us no outlet for any kind of assistance or help," said Bill Leidecker, owner of Five Seasons Landscape Management in Reynoldsburg. "The level of assistance and communication we're receiving from DuPont is pathetic."

Five Seasons and other central Ohio companies stopped using Imprelis as soon as they noticed the damage, but by then, most spring herbicides had been applied.

Landscapers are baffled that product tests failed to reveal the problems they're seeing.

DuPont has run more than 400 third-party tests on Imprelis in the past five years, Childress said. In addition to demonstrating Imprelis' weed-fighting capabilities, the tests revealed some environmental pluses. Among them: unusually low toxicity to animals.

Unlike traditional herbicides such as 2-4D, which are topical, Imprelis works through the roots and does not run off with rain. But some lawn-care professionals think that asset turned into a liability this spring when heavy rains pushed the herbicide into the soil and tree roots.

Landscapers and arborists are advising clients not to rush to replace trees, especially because midsummer is a terrible time to plant trees.

Leidecker said he has noticed new growth on some damaged trees; other landscapers haven't seen that. Some affected trees appear clearly dead, and lawn-care professionals say that even if others recover, they might never be the same.

"Will this come back?" Wehinger said while examining a customer's spruce that had lost about half its needles. "Even if it does, this tree will never look right."

Meanwhile, customers used to seeing green in their yards are seeing empty brown branches.

Craig Zanetos isn't waiting. After watching his evergreens fail this summer, he contacted a lawyer to pursue legal action against DuPont and his lawn-care company.

Zanetos said 20 spruce and pine trees, ranging in height from 5 feet to more than 30 feet, are damaged on his Delaware County property.

"Within 30 days of the application, I noticed a little browning," he said. "Then, they just started turning all brown. I sit on my second-floor deck in the summer and see three 16-foot-plus trees dying right in front of me. ...

"It's been pretty unsettling, to say the least, to nurture trees for 16 years on your property and see this happen."

jweiker@dispatch.com

justanotherhomeowner
07-15-2011, 04:30 PM
DuPont was sued today by a Michigan golf course. Here is the Reuters news article:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/15/us-dupont-imprelis-lawsuit-idUSTRE76E54A20110715

This excerpt from the article seems to further show the stance DuPont is taking on this matter:

"Kate Childress, a DuPont spokeswoman, in an emailed statement said the Wilmington-based company is evaluating the lawsuit, but is confident that the case is "unfounded" and will oppose it vigorously."

JoJo1990
07-15-2011, 05:40 PM
Well that's scary. I'm sure lots of companies are asking their customers to be patient and not remove any damage trees until they hear from DuPont. I wonder what happens if nothing is heard until November or December? Are customers goin to be willing to wait until 2012 to potentially replace trees on DuPont's dime?

compostmulch
07-15-2011, 06:22 PM
Another scary thing is that the trees will probably end up being composted and the compost with imprelis residues will end up in someone's garden or border.

Think about the effects it would have on your broadleaf garden vegetables like tomato, lettuce, spinach, beans, etc. or flowers.

mrmean
07-18-2011, 03:09 PM
Class Action complaint filed
http://www.lieffcabraser.com/environmental-litigation/case/484/dupont-imprelis-herbicide

nik
07-18-2011, 03:35 PM
Is is possible something else is going on? Is it only herbicide damage that can cause the twisting and curling of branches? We get winterburn on conifers here in the Pacific Northwest. On Doug firs especially. Usually when we get a nasty cold spat with wind in the late spring. Will toast new growth. It will twist and curl and burn. Looks very much like 2,4-D volitilization.Doesn't usually kill the trees but makes them real ugly for a bit.

You see that here because our west of the mountain winters are pretty mild and the trees aren't adapted to the real cold you all get in the midwest. Haven't heard about any problems yet in my state and we in Bigfoot country have enough conifers to where this should be apparent pretty quickly.

compostmulch
07-18-2011, 03:57 PM
If you look at the trees in the attached picture you will see that only those that are in the strip treated with Imprelis by a commercial applicator are affected. There are no symptoms on even a single tree on residents' properties where Imprelis was not used, even on identical trees of the same age.

So I do not think anything else is going on. It is not some odd blight, or cold temperature response, or root disease, insect attack or maladaptation. Otherwise trees throughout the area would be affected.

In the area where Imprelis was applied, 2/3 of more than 50 trees are affected. One third are completely brown. In the areas where it was not applied, not a single tree out of hundreds shows symptoms.

Grassworks Inc.
07-19-2011, 03:08 PM
It just made the front page of the newspaper here in Wilmington. http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20110719/NEWS/107190358/Property-owners-see-red-over-brown-trees?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Local|s

Harley-D
07-19-2011, 04:21 PM
Hellooooooo!!!!!!

Can somebody with some imprelis, (and i can't believe that dupont didn't do this two months ago) please go find a norway spruce that no one cares about and spray around it! Seems like this would answer a lot of questions about other chemicals mixed in, drought, sun, shade, wind...etc. In 4-5 weeks we will have undisputed results. That's what i want.

Mark Oomkes
07-19-2011, 04:56 PM
Hellooooooo!!!!!!

Can somebody with some imprelis, (and i can't believe that dupont didn't do this two months ago) please go find a norway spruce that no one cares about and spray around it! Seems like this would answer a lot of questions about other chemicals mixed in, drought, sun, shade, wind...etc. In 4-5 weeks we will have undisputed results. That's what i want.

Oh, they probably have.

And the results are "inconclusive" or some such nonsense.

grassman177
07-19-2011, 06:33 PM
i think that is a good idea, maybe i can try. i have a customer wanting to remove a good tree, butit is a blue spruce.

jackedf150
07-19-2011, 06:37 PM
I was at a thing at purdue today and it affects blue spruce too. Oh and saw lt rich there and they have made a few nice changes to the zspray.
Posted via Mobile Device

JoJo1990
07-19-2011, 07:12 PM
Grassman, it will have no issue at all wiping out that blue spruce. Take video too though.

I especially like when the neighbors spruce, ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FENCE, shows some really dramatic herbicide damage. The location was also several feet away from the 'drip zone'.

While I understand they don't want to come right out and claim responsibility, there is plenty of evidence from the professional community now to show what has happened. They need to make this right, and so far, they have done anything but that.

jbturf
07-19-2011, 08:19 PM
regarding the white pines,

most sites im seeing, the twisted curled whitish new growth has browned
and the browning is continueing down the limbs

grassman177
07-19-2011, 11:51 PM
Actually, we sprayed all in and around blue spruce trees with no ill effects. prob would do no damage!

And to put it to rest one more time for those questioning the tank mix issue dupont is touting, we sprayed only imprelis, nothing else..and got damage.
Posted via Mobile Device

White Gardens
07-20-2011, 12:23 AM
The funny thing is that I was talking a regional supplier and asked if they still had imprelis.

They sure did and told me that all the damage was done by the operators and other conditions.

I asked him if he felt comfortable selling it, and he said " Golf courses have been using it for years with no problems, I wouldn't hesitate to sell it to anyone right now."

Even some suppliers are ignoring the signs and still trying to push a product that could potentially ruin the people who buy it.

Where's the ethics?

..

Mark Oomkes
07-20-2011, 07:32 AM
I asked him if he felt comfortable selling it, and he said " Golf courses have been using it for years with no problems, I wouldn't hesitate to sell it to anyone right now."

Even some suppliers are ignoring the signs and still trying to push a product that could potentially ruin the people who buy it.

Where's the ethics?

..

I would question him further on the in use for years comment. While it has been tested since '06, has it really been used by golf courses for "years"?

Maybe the question is ethics and honesty?

grassman177
07-20-2011, 10:42 PM
no joke, sounds like that guy is a turd.

i still dont see how it did all this damage with so much testing. currently i think there are def going to be about 5 trees that are not going to make it from imprelis. the rest i think will be fine, but have all the candles from this year dead.

i am still awaiting the "investigative team" to come from dupont following the official claim we have put in with them so far.

RABBITMAN11
07-20-2011, 10:50 PM
no joke, sounds like that guy is a turd.

i still dont see how it did all this damage with so much testing. currently i think there are def going to be about 5 trees that are not going to make it from imprelis. the rest i think will be fine, but have all the candles from this year dead.

i am still awaiting the "investigative team" to come from dupont following the official claim we have put in with them so far.

Did mine by phone today! Asked how many trees damaged, and how many that will have to be replaced. I've already meet with the investigation team here. So hopefully we can get this going....

mdlwn1
07-21-2011, 08:46 AM
Is this the FIRST year that Imprellis is out there residentially?

Mark Oomkes
07-21-2011, 08:58 AM
I could be mistaken, but I believe this is the first year it is available for use, period. I believe it just finished the field trials\tests.

cindyb
07-21-2011, 11:35 AM
I'm losing all my white pines and blue spruce. I googled the symptoms and found you all, sorry I forgot I signed up to help with ponds.

Anyway no stories have been done in Louisville, we thought the drought, blight or ducks :no: killed our trees then I looked up and found Imprelis damage.

First my heart goes out to the lawn companies but I feel bad for the people like me that are losing trees and didn't connect the Imprelis and had to find out on my own. Torn between letting the news horticulturist do a story and protecting my lawn guy. Said they can do a story and not name the company.

Here's a picture of one of my worst. The new growth has little bumps like a pineapple. I have 13 trees damaged. Waiting for some word on what Dupont is going to do, all huge trees.

cindyb
07-21-2011, 11:41 AM
our largest, the power lines give you an idea of size. I took the pic from across the street

Harley-D
07-21-2011, 12:03 PM
Way to many with the same story to be a "coincidence". It has to be imprelis and there are a bunch of upper management at dupont trying to determine what to do right now. They have a loooong list of people to get to. This will be years to correct.

So what now? Does Dupont try and hand the blame to the EPA? Who checked the field trials to see that all species were actually tested on? It's not like it's just on weeping blue atlas cedars. These are real common trees that should have been tested for ill effects. So, my question is....DuPont or EPA on this one. Whose more responsible?

cindyb
07-21-2011, 12:16 PM
My installer didn't mention it until we called him. Looks like the letter came out with the problem in June? I'd hate to think he was waiting to see if we noticed but read this on another post here

Would do, but cannot risk tipping him off right now and having him freak out.
The tree will just have to fend for itself, and hope we get some nice rainfall over the next few months. If it really takes a nose dive, at that point I will reassess I guess.



Honesty goes a long way. We've been blaming ourselves and were going to eat the cost of taking the tree down and pulling up the roots. Now that I'm reading the Dupont site, the Imprelis might stay in the soil.

How many homeowners are facing this problem and the company's aren't telling their customers what it could be? I don't blame the installer for spraying but it sure would have been nice to be informed of information they received.

gqnine44
07-21-2011, 04:50 PM
My installer didn't mention it until we called him. Looks like the letter came out with the problem in June? I'd hate to think he was waiting to see if we noticed but read this on another post here



Honesty goes a long way. We've been blaming ourselves and were going to eat the cost of taking the tree down and pulling up the roots. Now that I'm reading the Dupont site, the Imprelis might stay in the soil.

How many homeowners are facing this problem and the company's aren't telling their customers what it could be? I don't blame the installer for spraying but it sure would have been nice to be informed of information they received.

It is at least possible that they just found out about it too.

Dupont doesnt know who bought their product and who to notify. I put down 1.5 gallons of it before I heard anything about it. I never got a letter or a press release or anything.

Also what is there really to say to customers? We dont have any answers...We dont know if the trees will recover, if Dupont will accept any blame, if our insurance will cover it...we have zero answers for people. And like you said, we arent even sure when we are clear to replace trees if needed. Is it worth it to alert people when we have no anwers? Not sure what the right answer is...

garydale
07-21-2011, 05:25 PM
Hi Guys,
Here is our handling of the Imprelis problem to date.


We contacted our ins. carrier right away and started reporting each new case to them as they appeared.

We only contacted clients that had damage. We did not send out wholesale notice to all customers.

Our insurance company has contacted, visited and documented each case.

We filed a product complaint to JDL at the same time.

We currently have 18 cases ranging from one 6 ft. white pine up to 50 very large evergreens.

We keep everyone (of the 18) up to date on by email/mail on everything we find out.
We filed a report (requested by Dupont) detailing all damaged properties, rate, method, weather and tech. etc.

Damaged clients are being amazing calm and patient thus far and appreciate the updates we provide.

grassman177
07-21-2011, 05:38 PM
that is what we have done basically gary. our few clients that have damage are being awesome with understanding etc.

robertsturf
07-21-2011, 11:30 PM
There was a story on the local news tonight at 6:00 and Dupont was reporting that the problem was misapplication by too much product and applying it when conditions were unfavorable, too windy!

JoJo1990
07-22-2011, 09:17 AM
I ditto what Gary said. If it weren't for this site, I wouldn't have even heard about this issue until I got a letter from my supplier about one month after reading it on this forum.

This is not a good time of the year to plant a new tree anyway so we are in a holding pattern for now. Everyone else with damage I would not expect to see DuPont opening up their wallets. You should contact your insurance company.

mikesturf
07-22-2011, 09:52 AM
There was a story on the local news tonight at 6:00 and Dupont was reporting that the problem was misapplication by too much product and applying it when conditions were unfavorable, too windy!

Whatever you put in writing on Lawnsite, BE CAREFUL, DuPont is watching :waving:. They are adding anything you say on this site to your claim file. The first rule of thumb when you are caught doing something wrong is to DENY, DENY, DENY! DuPont is continually blaming the applicators, even when they followed DuPont's application directions.

grassman177
07-22-2011, 05:01 PM
Whatever you put in writing on Lawnsite, BE CAREFUL, DuPont is watching :waving:. They are adding anything you say on this site to your claim file. The first rule of thumb when you are caught doing something wrong is to DENY, DENY, DENY! DuPont is continually blaming the applicators, even when they followed DuPont's application directions.

i have not said nothing that can do my situation any harm that is for sure, i followed directions, used it alone in tank mix, and sprayed on a very optimum day.

twcw5804
07-24-2011, 03:55 AM
I must say this is going to really make our industry look bad. I had not bought Imprelis but came real close once I finally bought my backpack sprayer. I read everything online just like you guys about its praises. I told other lcos and teachers at my college about this great new product I had been seeing on LS. One LCO that has mentored me as i've grown has recently been spraying now when they used to just use a walk behind spreader. Im gonna call him tomorrow and ask and hope he doesnt say he started using this.

I agree with others. This will affect us for a long time. Trees will not be disposed of properly and will make it into our landfills and then mulch. I will not buy any of their products in the future, and unfortunetly when new great products come out I will wait a year to see what long term affects may pop up.

Im also wondering, has anyone sprayed Imprelis and had a neighbors tree show signs of damage. I really feel for the guy that lost hundreds of trees. Notice since he lawyerd up he hasnt posted again.
Posted via Mobile Device

twcw5804
07-24-2011, 04:09 AM
http://imprelisattorneys.com/identifying-imprelis-damage/

Also found a twitter name of @imprelislawsuit, search on twitter shows lots of people posting links of articles on imprelis killing trees. Proof again industry getting bad name, thanks Dupont
Posted via Mobile Device

Grassworks Inc.
07-27-2011, 06:13 PM
This was in today's email's:

July 27, 2011
Dear Turf Management Professional:
I am writing to update you on the situation with Imprelis® herbicide.
First and foremost, I want to underscore DuPont’s commitment to our customers’ satisfaction and to
responsible stewardship of our products. We sincerely regret any tree injuries that Imprelis® may have
caused, and will work with you to promptly and fairly resolve problems associated with our product.
Since we sent you our original letter, we have reached out to those of you who have reported concerns,
both to gather information and to determine how best to work with them to address those concerns.
Based on our ongoing review, we have observed tree injuries associated with Imprelis® primarily on
Norway spruce and white pine trees. The reports of problems are concentrated in a geographic band that
includes Minnesota, Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Jersey and Wisconsin. While most
properties treated have had successful weed control, we are committed to continuing to work with every
customer who has experienced Imprelis-related problems.
If you have concerns or issues with our product, we would like to hear from you. To make it easier to
report problems and have them resolved as quickly as possible, we are:
 Engaging 20 independent, certified arborist companies to work with you and evaluate your claim.
 Launching a website, imprelis-facts.com, to carry the latest information about Imprelis® and make
it easier for you to report problems. We urge you to go to the website for more information and to
check back frequently for updates.
 Establishing a toll free hotline to take all reports of problems from lawn care professionals,
property managers and owners, and golf courses, and to handle any questions and concerns.
The hotline will go live on Monday, August 1. The number will be made available on the imprelisfacts.
com website.
 Continuing to work on this issue with the Environmental Protection Agency, state regulators and
university extension specialists.
We ask for your cooperation while we work to rapidly address this matter and institute processes and
procedures to remedy your situation. It is our goal to have a claims process set up as soon as possible.
Thank you for your patience and ongoing support of DuPont Professional Products as we work through
this together.
With regards,
Michael McDermott
Global Business Leader
DuPont Professional Products

grassman177
07-27-2011, 07:17 PM
that is a good letter. i have not received this letter yet, but i would expect to soon since i am am on thier claim list.

jbturf
07-27-2011, 07:42 PM
i got that letter via email today also,

so i need to assess the current state of the trees and
see which ones i need to move forward on a claim process?

were in a bit of a drought in my area which is no question not helping
the trees, <1" of precip in the past 30 days

i checked on a white pine(imprelis effected) today on an unirrigated property,
since last week at has completely browned out-- most of the ones on irrigated properties
are in much better shape

grassman177
07-27-2011, 09:34 PM
this one is irrigated, but they are on berms.

Grassworks Inc.
07-28-2011, 12:24 PM
article in the Wilmington paper today:
http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20110728/NEWS08/107280343/-1/NLETTER01/DuPont-admits-new-herbicide-has-damaged-spruce--pine-trees?source=nletter-news

nik
07-28-2011, 05:53 PM
So what now? Does Dupont try and hand the blame to the EPA? Who checked the field trials to see that all species were actually tested on? It's not like it's just on weeping blue atlas cedars. These are real common trees that should have been tested for ill effects. So, my question is....DuPont or EPA on this one. Whose more responsible?

Harley-D

The companies do the research to show how their product works and how safe it is Then they send all the data to EPA. If EPA figures on balance that if using a product has more benefit than harm it will approve it. If something easily gets on to groundwater or rivers or too much in food than they may hold back on approving. They don't dpo the testing themselves

If it kills weeds likes its designed and doesn't hurt most tree species they would still approve it. Companies get to use the weasel phrase about not testing it on all species so if there is damage they can try and back out of any problems. They can say that they know what it is safe on and tell YOU to test it stuff not listed. So, to answer question of the two choices it is DuPont. If they left out important info on purpose or just didn't do enough testing that is not EPA's fault.

DA Quality Lawn & YS
08-01-2011, 07:37 PM
I have this letter in my hands too. At least DuPont is admitting tree injury to selected cultivars. So they are no longer denying, that is good.

Did everyone see the website imprelis-facts.com? There is also a damage report hotline to call. I called our regional sales rep and he directed me to the hotline. I left a message and expect a call back very soon. I had one lawn with about 15 3-4' trees affected. Most look like they will recover, 3 or so will not. Weird thing is, the Colo Blue Spruce and Arborvitaes on the property were not touched at all, and the ones that were affected, I did not come within 2-3 feet of spraying near the dripline with my PG. Unbelievable how sensitive some of these trees are to the chemical.




This was in today's email's:

July 27, 2011
Dear Turf Management Professional:
I am writing to update you on the situation with Imprelis® herbicide.
First and foremost, I want to underscore DuPont’s commitment to our customers’ satisfaction and to
responsible stewardship of our products. We sincerely regret any tree injuries that Imprelis® may have
caused, and will work with you to promptly and fairly resolve problems associated with our product.
Since we sent you our original letter, we have reached out to those of you who have reported concerns,
both to gather information and to determine how best to work with them to address those concerns.
Based on our ongoing review, we have observed tree injuries associated with Imprelis® primarily on
Norway spruce and white pine trees. The reports of problems are concentrated in a geographic band that
includes Minnesota, Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Jersey and Wisconsin. While most
properties treated have had successful weed control, we are committed to continuing to work with every
customer who has experienced Imprelis-related problems.
If you have concerns or issues with our product, we would like to hear from you. To make it easier to
report problems and have them resolved as quickly as possible, we are:
 Engaging 20 independent, certified arborist companies to work with you and evaluate your claim.
 Launching a website, imprelis-facts.com, to carry the latest information about Imprelis® and make
it easier for you to report problems. We urge you to go to the website for more information and to
check back frequently for updates.
 Establishing a toll free hotline to take all reports of problems from lawn care professionals,
property managers and owners, and golf courses, and to handle any questions and concerns.
The hotline will go live on Monday, August 1. The number will be made available on the imprelisfacts.
com website.
 Continuing to work on this issue with the Environmental Protection Agency, state regulators and
university extension specialists.
We ask for your cooperation while we work to rapidly address this matter and institute processes and
procedures to remedy your situation. It is our goal to have a claims process set up as soon as possible.
Thank you for your patience and ongoing support of DuPont Professional Products as we work through
this together.
With regards,
Michael McDermott
Global Business Leader
DuPont Professional Products

jbturf
08-01-2011, 08:02 PM
yesterday i saw the worst damage so far on a comercial property

2 20-25 ' wht pines
5 10' eastern wht pines
6 2-3' yews

there are several more trees i see minor symtops on
but these listed do not look like they will make it

there has been no irrigation on this site either

americanlawn
08-01-2011, 08:28 PM
Kinda weird, but I'm even getting junk mail from law firms asking about Imprellis damage. So far we've been contacted by several law firms wanting to represent us. Problem is, we've never used Imprellis. So now I'm thinking 2 things:

1) Insurance companies stand to get rich (not sure how & why).

2) Dupont will stand behind Imprellis claims.

Bottom line, everybody makes mistakes. If you are honest, and come to the plate by being forthcoming is truly what counts. Life's too short to lie to folks.

Am I siding with Dupont now? I kinda think so. 3 months ago I would have not. Reminds me of the BP oil spill in the gulf.

rcvp ??

CHARLES CUE
08-08-2011, 10:27 PM
Here's a little article from PSU

Went to a class on Friday in PA and the guy teaching the class was up on this. There's another product that they use in ag in hay fields that there having problems with like imprelis. The chemical is in the hay than the cows eat it and there manure has residue in it. Farmers sell left over hay to another farmer that uses it to mulch 80 acres of tomato's. You get dead tomato's.

He said that Imprelis collects in all the new growth we only see the leaves and needles. But it is under the bark and in the roots ends clipping them off. If the tree lives wonder if in will be deformed in the future.

http://blog.pested.psu.edu/2011/08/08/imprelis-update/

Charles Cue

grassman177
08-08-2011, 11:33 PM
that is a super good article. thanks

terrapro
08-08-2011, 11:34 PM
Here's a little article from PSU

Went to a class on Friday in PA and the guy teaching the class was up on this. There's another product that they use in ag in hay fields that there having problems with like imprelis. The chemical is in the hay than the cows eat it and there manure has residue in it. Farmers sell left over hay to another farmer that uses it to mulch 80 acres of tomato's. You get dead tomato's.

He said that Imprelis collects in all the new growth we only see the leaves and needles. But it is under the bark and in the roots ends clipping them off. If the tree lives wonder if in will be deformed in the future.

http://blog.pested.psu.edu/2011/08/08/imprelis-update/

Charles Cue

Hmmm so now we have to watch out for mulch, not a good situation for the hort industry at the moment.

greendoctor
08-09-2011, 04:51 AM
The chemical I can think of used in ag that has a transfer problem in hay is aminopyralid. This is also used in pasture and non crop areas. Dow decided a long time ago not to ever register this herbicide for turf use. Due to it activity through soil and persistence in the soil and grass clippings it was considered a poor risk.

DA Quality Lawn & YS
08-09-2011, 11:31 AM
I believe that product is called Milestone. Works wonderfully (like Imprelis) for open areas.

greendoctor
08-09-2011, 02:54 PM
Milestone as a stand alone product and Forefront when combined with 2,4-D. Milestone just works a treat when there is leguminous brush infesting non crop and pasture areas. So much so, that the seeds from these weeds will not germinate in sprayed areas for the rest of the year. It is my opinion that it is too heavy a bat for clover control in lawns. The AI in Imprelis is sold in combination with imazypyr and/or metsulfuron for total control of woody vegetation in ROW and industrial areas. Again, I would have had misgivings about using this on a lawn for killing little weeds.

grassman177
08-09-2011, 07:10 PM
intersting to know

CHARLES CUE
08-09-2011, 08:35 PM
Hmmm so now we have to watch out for mulch, not a good situation for the hort industry at the moment.

You know think of it this way every lawn that was sprayed with Imprelis and all the trees that are not affected. But do they still have Imprelis in them and in there leaves. and those leaves fall off and are gather up and composted ?

Just a Thought

Charles Cue

americanlawn
08-09-2011, 08:40 PM
Did an estimate yesterday for a homeowner association in Waukee. They signed a 2012 contract with us today for the 2012 season. +

1) They first asked if we used Imprellis ?

2) They said their property looks like a "sh$thouse" cuz of the previous LCO who didn't know crap regarding trees. -

3) They suggested that their previous LCO should have known better. -

4) They were referred by another HOA. +

5) They were also impressed that we have a degreed hort on staff. +

Sorry to take away others misfortunes, but this is what happens. Sorry Dupont.

This is about a $400 per app account.

I hate to rob accounts from others, but these HO folks did not want to chance another bad experience.

grassman177
08-09-2011, 11:10 PM
i can understand that, but were they implying that the applicators should have known about not using imprelis? cuz that would piss me off if so, it was no applicators fault on the majority of claims i am very sure of it. just a bad product in terms of the damages it caused.

i would have to educate them if so, even if it meant i did not get the job. education first in my books, and if they choose to not listen then it is not my problem...only theirs.

Mark Oomkes
08-10-2011, 08:46 AM
You know think of it this way every lawn that was sprayed with Imprelis and all the trees that are not affected. But do they still have Imprelis in them and in there leaves. and those leaves fall off and are gather up and composted ?

Just a Thought

Charles Cue

Or potentially cause problems down the road even.

DA Quality Lawn & YS
08-10-2011, 10:39 AM
i can understand that, but were they implying that the applicators should have known about not using imprelis? cuz that would piss me off if so, it was no applicators fault on the majority of claims i am very sure of it. just a bad product in terms of the damages it caused.

i would have to educate them if so, even if it meant i did not get the job. education first in my books, and if they choose to not listen then it is not my problem...only theirs.

I agree LCO's cannot be to blame for using Imprelis, unless they knowingly mis-followed label directions. An LCO who didn't use imprelis saying, on here, "I told you so" to another LCO who did use it, IMO, is totally classless.

pieperlc
08-10-2011, 11:47 AM
Communication is key in dealing imprelis problems. If another LCO doesn't or can't communicate what is going on with their customers, it's their loss.

Posted via Mobile Device

Harley-D
08-10-2011, 12:29 PM
Did an estimate yesterday for a homeowner association in Waukee. They signed a 2012 contract with us today for the 2012 season. +

1) They first asked if we used Imprellis ?

2) They said their property looks like a "sh$thouse" cuz of the previous LCO who didn't know crap regarding trees. -

3) They suggested that their previous LCO should have known better. -

4) They were referred by another HOA. +

5) They were also impressed that we have a degreed hort on staff. +

Sorry to take away others misfortunes, but this is what happens. Sorry Dupont.

This is about a $400 per app account.

I hate to rob accounts from others, but these HO folks did not want to chance another bad experience.

I'm trying to figure out what you are saying here. Are you assuming that the previous applicator mis-applied the product? If asked if you used imprelis, would you say no and imply that anyone who did didn't know what they were doing? You gotta be careful at what you put on here, it can shine a shady image. Imprelis wasn't anyone's fault and for a stupid HOA to say the applicator should have known better should be an indicator to you that they will throw you under the bus the first chance they get. It's always going to be your fault and your excuses, no matter how technical, will not matter. "Sorry Dupont." What?
And you didn't rob the account, the only dishonest thing you did was not stick up for our industry by explaining that it is not always the fault of the guy at the end of the hose or on the mower. The industry is in bad enough shape without it's own members giving it a bad image.

RABBITMAN11
08-10-2011, 04:33 PM
I'm trying to figure out what you are saying here. Are you assuming that the previous applicator mis-applied the product? If asked if you used imprelis, would you say no and imply that anyone who did didn't know what they were doing? You gotta be careful at what you put on here, it can shine a shady image. Imprelis wasn't anyone's fault and for a stupid HOA to say the applicator should have known better should be an indicator to you that they will throw you under the bus the first chance they get. It's always going to be your fault and your excuses, no matter how technical, will not matter. "Sorry Dupont." What?
And you didn't rob the account, the only dishonest thing you did was not stick up for our industry by explaining that it is not always the fault of the guy at the end of the hose or on the mower. The industry is in bad enough shape without it's own members giving it a bad image.

I totally Agree. I would have told them that it was not the fault of the applicator.

JoJo1990
08-10-2011, 08:47 PM
Did an estimate yesterday for a homeowner association in Waukee.....

From the man who didn't even apply the product. Much like your LS threads Larry, you have the arm-chair quarterback technique down quite well.

CHARLES CUE
08-10-2011, 09:47 PM
Larry i think that you were wrong

I always educate the costumer If the other LCO did nothing wrong

I may not get the job but i don't want the job on un true facts

Charles Cue

sprayboy
08-10-2011, 10:47 PM
Did an estimate yesterday for a homeowner association in Waukee. They signed a 2012 contract with us today for the 2012 season. +

1) They first asked if we used Imprellis ?

2) They said their property looks like a "sh$thouse" cuz of the previous LCO who didn't know crap regarding trees. -

3) They suggested that their previous LCO should have known better. -

4) They were referred by another HOA. +

5) They were also impressed that we have a degreed hort on staff. +

Sorry to take away others misfortunes, but this is what happens. Sorry Dupont.

This is about a $400 per app account.

I hate to rob accounts from others, but these HO folks did not want to chance another bad experience.



Did you tell them that you have applicators make mistakes like spraying dog toys in the lawn instead of picking them up first?

If you are trying to take customers because someone used imprelis than you are only thinking about yourself and not OUR industry.

bice14
08-11-2011, 03:02 PM
Our company has not used any Imprelis but I know that other LCO's are using it my area because I am getting a ton of calls from angry customers wanting to switch to our company. Very unfortunate for some and fortunate for others as well.

Morgantown, WV

grassman177
08-11-2011, 07:45 PM
truth only matters in the end

JoJo1990
09-06-2011, 06:17 PM
Waiting (Impatiently) for DuPont's update which is supposed to come out today regarding the next step for the return process and, I hope, the replacement process.

Grassworks Inc.
09-06-2011, 08:36 PM
It just came out... going to have to meet with customers and lawyers to see which of their options makes sense.

lawntennis
09-06-2011, 10:25 PM
What are the options?
Posted via Mobile Device

pieperlc
09-06-2011, 11:45 PM
Looks like DuPont is owning up to their mistakes. Next hurdle: wait to see what they think my dead trees are worth.

grassman177
09-06-2011, 11:46 PM
Yeah, no chit.have an email I hope
Posted via Mobile Device

pieperlc
09-06-2011, 11:48 PM
I checked my email after reading this, and there it was. They said Sept. 6th, but I didn't expect it today as I'm still waiting on buyback program details set to be released in Mid-August.

lawntennis
09-07-2011, 08:25 AM
Could someone attach the email. I still haven't recieved mine. Checked my spam too. I did get quite a few offers for viagra.

garydale
09-07-2011, 09:24 AM
Lawntennis,
Here is what I received.
Sept 6 DuPont Claims Process Letter LCO 090611F.pdf, Imprelis Claims Resolution Overview LCO 090611F.pdf

If you didn't get anything from Dupont you might not be registered with them.

31bro
09-07-2011, 09:30 AM
Sorry couldnt open it

Lawntennis,
Here is what I received.
Sept 6 DuPont Claims Process Letter LCO 090611F.pdf, Imprelis Claims Resolution Overview LCO 090611F.pdf

If you didn't get anything from Dupont you might not be registered with them.

jbturf
09-07-2011, 09:41 AM
ill try and attach letters

garydale
09-07-2011, 09:46 AM
Sorry guys, I have a hell of a time trying to attach documents.

terrapro
09-07-2011, 09:48 AM
You know think of it this way every lawn that was sprayed with Imprelis and all the trees that are not affected. But do they still have Imprelis in them and in there leaves. and those leaves fall off and are gather up and composted ?

Just a Thought

Charles Cue

Or potentially cause problems down the road even.

That is what I was thinking.

lawntennis
09-07-2011, 08:19 PM
Most people that do leaf collection use a mower and bagger as the final cleanup. They usually have the blades high but they are still going to get some grass. If it has imprelis it may end up in a local compost site.

terrapro
09-07-2011, 09:37 PM
Most people that do leaf collection use a mower and bagger as the final cleanup. They usually have the blades high but they are still going to get some grass. If it has imprelis it may end up in a local compost site.

I spread compost and lay mulch, I am concerned.

gqnine44
09-08-2011, 01:06 AM
I spread compost and lay mulch, I am concerned.

I guess its a remote possibility as anything is possible but that seems like a real long shot that that would cause damage. I mean Imprellis in its liquid formulation was sprayed on thousands of lawns across the country without damage on most. What are the odds that the residule inside a composted leaf will cause damage?

I've been hearing from professors and the like that the Imprellis damage appears to be linked to the extremely wet spring we had - the Imprellis damage map follows the crazy amounts of rain on the map. Who knows, if we hadnt had so much rain it could have taken several years to realize the damage that this product was capable of.

grassman177
09-08-2011, 06:50 AM
got the email. looks pretty good, but that depends on what they determine the outcome of each and every tree was. they do seem to line up though that they will pay up what needs to be done either way. here is to making it right?!

sprayboy
09-08-2011, 09:16 AM
I guess its a remote possibility as anything is possible but that seems like a real long shot that that would cause damage. I mean Imprellis in its liquid formulation was sprayed on thousands of lawns across the country without damage on most. What are the odds that the residule inside a composted leaf will cause damage?

I've been hearing from professors and the like that the Imprellis damage appears to be linked to the extremely wet spring we had - the Imprellis damage map follows the crazy amounts of rain on the map. Who knows, if we hadnt had so much rain it could have taken several years to realize the damage that this product was capable of.


I disagree because I have damage on trees where I sprayed the first week of June, well after the heavy spring rains.
The AI in Imprelis is used under a different label for Right of Way control in heavy brush areas so I can't help but think they knew it could have some effect on trees. I still don't understand how this could get through their testing process.
IF it were available next year would you use it if you were guaranteed a dry spring?

PR Fect
09-08-2011, 09:49 AM
Sorry guys, I have a hell of a time trying to attach documents.

So has anyone done their numbers? Do you think $200.00 per property is enough to cover your costs in gathering this info, taking photos, time with customers, office time, travel time, ect?

JoJo1990
09-08-2011, 12:51 PM
So has anyone done their numbers? Do you think $200.00 per property is enough to cover your costs in gathering this info, taking photos, time with customers, office time, travel time, ect?

Absolutely not.

Snapper12
09-08-2011, 09:33 PM
So has anyone done their numbers? Do you think $200.00 per property is enough to cover your costs in gathering this info, taking photos, time with customers, office time, travel time, ect?

Don't forget about that actual cost of the tree/s, the lose of customers, etc etc...

PR Fect
09-08-2011, 10:55 PM
Snapper, the cost of the trees, or their value plus the cost to remove and replace is a separate issue. The owner would be paid for that cost/loss. But you are correct is saying the loss in customers. Also reputation, or is this a way to save your rep by working with DuPont?

lawntennis
09-09-2011, 06:44 PM
I dont want to be in a situation with my customers where I am telling them how much they are getting when they think they should get more. Let Dupont clean up the mess they made and stay completely on the side of the customer. A customer is worth way more than they are paying you in the long run. The problem is I am opting out but still have a ton of uncompensated time invested already.

grassman177
09-09-2011, 08:33 PM
i dont think we are doing any of the work to be done, will have them deal with it and side with our customers.

PR Fect
09-10-2011, 03:26 PM
i dont think we are doing any of the work to be done, will have them deal with it and side with our customers.


Correct. We do not plan on doing any of the work removing or installing or renovation. Just filling out forms and taking photos. And maybe getting back something for the lost time.

tlg
09-10-2011, 06:06 PM
When Imprelis was introduced I sincerely had concerns over the residual effects it might have. I recall the problem that Confront had remaining in the clippings and ending up in compost or around customers tomato plants. Thankfully I was not interested in trying Imprelis for those reasons . I can tell you all that we have spent considerable amount of time answering customers concerns about their trees anyway even though we never used the product. Our service area has seen an outbreak of Pine Needle Cast and every customer that watched or read the news reports felt that they had Imprelis damage on their trees. I would much rather take a new sale on the phone than explain to a customer that we did not hurt their trees. The bottom line here is Dupont let everybody down here. Even those of us that did not even use the product. In an Industry that has constant scrutiny, increasingly negative perceptions by the public and government this is the last thing any of us needed to deal with. I don't expect Dupont to pay for the inconveniences they have caused my business. I do hope that those companies that have had a direct impact from this will be justly compensated for their trouble.

grassman177
09-10-2011, 08:07 PM
When Imprelis was introduced I sincerely had concerns over the residual effects it might have. I recall the problem that Confront had remaining in the clippings and ending up in compost or around customers tomato plants. Thankfully I was not interested in trying Imprelis for those reasons . I can tell you all that we have spent considerable amount of time answering customers concerns about their trees anyway even though we never used the product. Our service area has seen an outbreak of Pine Needle Cast and every customer that watched or read the news reports felt that they had Imprelis damage on their trees. I would much rather take a new sale on the phone than explain to a customer that we did not hurt their trees. The bottom line here is Dupont let everybody down here. Even those of us that did not even use the product. In an Industry that has constant scrutiny, increasingly negative perceptions by the public and government this is the last thing any of us needed to deal with. I don't expect Dupont to pay for the inconveniences they have caused my business. I do hope that those companies that have had a direct impact from this will be justly compensated for their trouble.

good post here

bare spot
09-12-2011, 03:18 AM
been following this somewhat and wanted to ask if there is a test or something to confirm for damage (besides the visual like the pictures i've seen)?

indyturf
09-12-2011, 03:37 AM
There have been test done on a couple of my trees. the imprellis damage is very obvious once you have seen it.

bare spot
09-12-2011, 05:18 AM
will post later what's going on but sounds like it could check with a lab, thanks indyturf

emeraldoutdoor
09-26-2011, 01:44 PM
Is anyone concerned about applying the fall weed treatment with 2-4-D, Dicamba etc over the top of all the Imprelis damage from this spring? We are scheduled to begin round 5 next Monday, but I am getting kind of paranoid about the possibility of kicking the sites treated with the crap Imprelis when its already down and out

RABBITMAN11
09-26-2011, 04:33 PM
Just got the packet from DuPont to report for the claims
Posted via Mobile Device

grassman177
09-26-2011, 10:21 PM
we have been doing that too, i am concerned with the blanket app, but thankfully i can do most of the lawn and not be in the root zone of these trees.

DA Quality Lawn & YS
09-27-2011, 12:06 AM
IMO STAY AWAY from Imprelis affected trees and drip zones with a fall blanket app of 3way. Don't give DuPont any excuse to bail out on your claim.

lawntennis
09-27-2011, 07:20 AM
BANRUPTY SOLUTIONS Did anyone notice that this is the name of the company that mailed out the claims forms for Dupont. I found it humorous. It also looks like a lot of paper work I don't have time to do.

Glenn Lawn Care
09-27-2011, 01:08 PM
http://www.twincities.com/news/ci_18983961?source=rss

I just posted this a few minutes ago without seeing this thread. I find it interesting and hard to believe. This is just 10 minutes from my house here in Minnesota!

Grassworks Inc.
09-27-2011, 04:44 PM
BANRUPTY SOLUTIONS Did anyone notice that this is the name of the company that mailed out the claims forms for Dupont. I found it humorous. It also looks like a lot of paper work I don't have time to do.

Yeah, how about that? UPS dropped off my claims forms this morning. I was out aerating, an employee calls me and says he just signed for a package for me from EPIQ BANKRUPTCY SOLUTIONS. I'm thinking wtf? Almost had an accident and a heart attack running back to the shop to see what it was. Note to DuPont: Couldn't you find a better 3rd party to assist you in this matter, or are you trying to kill off your claimants and future plaintiffs?

emeraldoutdoor
09-27-2011, 09:44 PM
Yeah, how about that? UPS dropped off my claims forms this morning. I was out aerating, an employee calls me and says he just signed for a package for me from EPIQ BANKRUPTCY SOLUTIONS. I'm thinking wtf? Almost had an accident and a heart attack running back to the shop to see what it was. Note to DuPont: Couldn't you find a better 3rd party to assist you in this matter, or are you trying to kill off your claimants and future plaintiffs?

Yeah I am amazed as well as to the name on the envelope we received today. Here is a thought. Are they giving us a hint of the intentions?
Then laughing at all of us who are going to collect tons of data for them with the promise of compensation, only to find out that we did all the legwork DuPont needs to bring it to court with a bankruptcy filing? I'm actually quite upset at the name EPIQ BANKRUPCY SOLUTIONS. Would anyone name there business "We suck at mowing lawn care" and then expect a positive growing business. I think there is something here that needs to be addressed. Maybe we should not be giving DuPont a line of credit with our time and effort. Maybe one of the class actions would be a better fit? Thoughts.

emeraldoutdoor
09-27-2011, 09:51 PM
Quick Web search of the company reveals this:

Company Overview

Epiq Bankruptcy Solutions, LLC, provides technology-based case management, consulting, and administrative services for chapter 11 cases. Its services comprise filing preparation, claims management, noticing and communication, balloting and solicitation, and disbursement. The company’s case management solutions provide Web-based access to case information, including email noticing, document management, sharing and archive, case scheduling and calendar, ongoing monitoring of claims status, and plan voting and ballot tabulation to creditors, debtors, and counsel. The company was formerly known as Bankruptcy Services, LLC and changed its name to Epiq Bankruptcy Solutions, LLC in June, 2007

Grassworks Inc.
09-27-2011, 10:13 PM
Maybe DuPont is planning on spinning off it's T&O division as an independent entity, only to go instantly bankrupt and it's assets sold off to another company. I don't think they'd be that arrogant and the company as a whole would be crucified in the media and public opinion. Just my conspiracy theory of the day.

grassman177
09-27-2011, 10:28 PM
that is so ironic and stupid i cant believe it. wow,

Grassworks Inc.
09-28-2011, 08:36 PM
that is so ironic and stupid i cant believe it. wow,
Silly, yes. Ironic, perhaps. Out of the realm of possibility, who knows? Stupid? Not. I've seen worse here frequently.

jbturf
09-29-2011, 06:19 PM
the packet i got was from dupont/ stericycle
is this something different?

anyway, they called me and said now they lost or do not have my
info- property detail and records, i emailed it again
to : dupont2458@dupontinquiry.com

what did you guys dealing with this send in? and was it via email?

is this the correct address?

ive talked to like 5 different people there , its frustating

PR Fect
09-30-2011, 12:36 AM
the packet i got was from dupont/ stericycle
is this something different?

anyway, they called me and said now they lost or do not have my
info- property detail and records, i emailed it again
to : dupont2458@dupontinquiry.com

what did you guys dealing with this send in? and was it via email?

is this the correct address?

ive talked to like 5 different people there , its frustating

That is the same e-mail address that we have used, only with capital letters on the D's and I. Working well for us. I do get what you are saying about calling and talking with them. Very, very nice people. Very polite. Very willing to help. But they do not seem to want to tell you anything. Its almost as if they do not know what you are talking to them about. One time, I did get a gal, I think her name was Ann. Only one that told me something I did not all ready know.

grassman177
09-30-2011, 07:51 PM
wouldnt you think they are all scripted for the most part anyways?

gqnine44
10-16-2011, 01:44 PM
So has anyone heard anything back from Dupont yet?

Have you heard of anyone getting any offers?

I havent heard anything recently...

lawntennis
10-16-2011, 04:32 PM
This buy back program they are going to let us know about must be complicated. It sure is taking awhile for them to buy back their product. If we took that long to get them money they owed us you know their would be penalty and interest.

jbturf
10-20-2011, 01:05 PM
Got my refund today, first bit of positive action thus far by dupont, yes thru distrib.
Posted via Mobile Device

DA Quality Lawn & YS
10-20-2011, 08:10 PM
I have my claim forms turned back into DuPont. Hoping they reply soon so I can at least get my customer's fried trees removed this fall. Getting almost too late to plant evergreens now though, that part will probably have to wait until spring.

grassman177
10-20-2011, 11:45 PM
we are right behind you quality. waiting for the end of the claims process and action to begin.

PR Fect
10-21-2011, 12:03 AM
Turn our left over product in today also. Was given full credit on account at JDL.:)

CHARLES CUE
10-21-2011, 03:37 PM
Turn our left over product in today also. Was given full credit on account at JDL.:)

So did they give you credit on what was left over or the hole jug

UPS just delivered a letter on this to day

Charles Cue

Snapper12
10-22-2011, 12:55 AM
So these trees you cut down... where are you going to dispose of them?

PR Fect
10-22-2011, 10:36 AM
So did they give you credit on what was left over or the hole jug

UPS just delivered a letter on this to day

Charles Cue

Whole Jug.

grassman177
10-22-2011, 04:10 PM
Turn our left over product in today also. Was given full credit on account at JDL.:)

i have not heard from dupont on the buy back program however, do you just turn it over back to your supplier? sounds like that is what you did so i was wondering cuz i still have 1/2 gal left and i know you get full refund anyhow

jbturf
10-22-2011, 06:30 PM
i have not heard from dupont on the buy back program however, do you just turn it over back to your supplier? sounds like that is what you did so i was wondering cuz i still have 1/2 gal left and i know you get full refund anyhow

yes supplier/distributor has to issue the refund, and dupont is suposed to
reimburse them, and its full refund for purchase price (straight to my personal acct :-) )
but distrib/ has to ship all remain/returned products back to dupont,
who's footing that bill?

grassman177
10-22-2011, 10:51 PM
dunno, but i am calling my supplier monday morning, and will likely give him a stern talk about why he has not told me about this. that is bs, and why dupont has not told me this, in any of our correspondence thru all of this.

jbturf
10-23-2011, 01:24 PM
Thats odd , they said 10 days oonly tocall all people who bought imprelis,kinda a short window
Posted via Mobile Device

lawntennis
10-23-2011, 05:34 PM
10 day window is bs. If you bought it they will take it back for quite awhile.
They can't put a deadline on their screwup.

grassman177
10-23-2011, 07:53 PM
that is what i was thinking, that is hearsay at most. no way they would or could do that. it is an epa banned and recalled chemical.

PR Fect
10-24-2011, 12:02 AM
10 business days after your distributor has contacted you.

CHARLES CUE
10-24-2011, 09:33 PM
I Called my distributor to day so i can send back the rest of the product after getting the letter

They said they got a tank from DuPont to put all the Imperils in but don't know any more than that

They said to give them some time to find out whats going to happen

Charles Cue