PDA

View Full Version : Cribbean Crazy Ants -- Rasberry Ants in Texas


Ric
06-04-2011, 09:22 AM
Yo

I had my first call for Caribbean Crazy Ants, OMG. They are only 1/8 inch at most but it is like seeing a horror movie. They just keep marching over the property like a blanket. But this place is the right environment for the Ants and not the humans. The area is called Horse Creek and it is thick with brush and bog land when it isn't flooded. Florida cattle men are called Cow Hunters instead of Cowboys because of rounding up cows from areas like this. They have to hunt for their cows. Why people want to live in a swamp or Bog is be on me but they build their house on stilts. Full disclosure here, I can't get rid of them. About the best I can do is put a barrier around the house and hope to keep them at bay.

I looking for any advice or experience or dealing with Caribbean Crazy Ants. Chasing down Ant Trails to find nest is not a real opposition here because they have multi nests and Multi Queens. But add in the heavy wooded envirnoment and there is no way to track Ant trails. My thinking is to let the fool with the 600 PSI fire hose soak the place down with Talstar.

Horse Creek area is never going to control Caribbean Crazy Ants until the land is cleared or at least day lighted. A few years ago we had an out break of White Foot Ants. But we got them under control in the city because of developed land and co-operation of all the residents to perform pest control.

olive123
06-04-2011, 12:11 PM
termidor. Treat properly, use a new backpack (no repellency) you will get good control in time. They are bad in areas here. I have taken care of a few properties. Way worse than white footed but workable.
If you decide to just blanket with the lawn rig than my suggestion is to use demand. WAY better than talstar. Gotta love that microencapsulation!

zturncutter
06-04-2011, 02:42 PM
Yo

I had my first call for Caribbean Crazy Ants, OMG. They are only 1/8 inch at most but it is like seeing a horror movie. They just keep marching over the property like a blanket. But this place is the right environment for the Ants and not the humans. The area is called Horse Creek and it is thick with brush and bog land when it isn't flooded. Florida cattle men are called Cow Hunters instead of Cowboys because of rounding up cows from areas like this. They have to hunt for their cows. Why people want to live in a swamp or Bog is be on me but they build their house on stilts. Full disclosure here, I can't get rid of them. About the best I can do is put a barrier around the house and hope to keep them at bay.

I looking for any advice or experience or dealing with Caribbean Crazy Ants. Chasing down Ant Trails to find nest is not a real opposition here because they have multi nests and Multi Queens. But add in the heavy wooded envirnoment and there is no way to track Ant trails. My thinking is to let the fool with the 600 PSI fire hose soak the place down with Talstar.

Horse Creek area is never going to control Caribbean Crazy Ants until the land is cleared or at least day lighted. A few years ago we had an out break of White Foot Ants. But we got them under control in the city because of developed land and co-operation of all the residents to perform pest control.

This wouldn't be John Georges property would it ?

Ric
06-04-2011, 03:24 PM
This wouldn't be John Georges property would it ?

Zturn

No the guys first name is Patrick. The Property is two acres and has a Stilt house, a 40 Ft Motor Home and a 20 ft park trailer with families living in each. I know I drove past your house on the way there, I am just not sure exactly where you are other than across the Hwy from Joel.

I been working Split Days because IMHO it has been hotter than normal this year. I went to Horse Creek on Thursday after 5:00 PM. Since you know the area and like me wouldn't want to live there. Then you can understand why controlling These ants is never going happen with out an Act of God or a nuclear bomb. There is just too much under brush for them to nest in. The customer has been using Talstar on the Piling and Cement slab under the house. It is hard to Believe how many dead Ants are piled up. We thought White Foot Ants were bad, but these are 10 time MORE Ants.

Procol calls for Termidor around the Perimeter and Liquid Ant Baits around the house to keep them out. But with all the ant favorable nesting environment I felt I had to Fire Hose as much area as possible around the house.

If I could find a good suppression method for these Ants, I am sure I could get a lot of business in that area. But unlike the city, this is wild area and these people are basically Camping out in the wilderness.

zturncutter
06-04-2011, 03:33 PM
After you go by my place and go down the hill you are in swampland for sure, probably 25 or so feet lower elevation by the creek. The guy I am talking about is at the end of Albritton street about a mile further out Kings Highway and yes his property runs along a section of Horse creek. He has been in the paper several times and I believe researchers from UF have been out there. At times they cover his house, unreal.

Ric
06-04-2011, 03:46 PM
After you go my place and go down the hill you are in swampland for sure, probably 25 or so feet lower elevation by the creek. The guy I am talking about is at the end of Albritton street about a mile further out Kings Highway and yes his property runs along a section of Horse creek. He has been in the paper several times and I believe researchers from UF have been out there. At times they cover his house, unreal.

Zturn

Yes I know you are high and dry as is Joel. I am looking at the Map and 769 runs due North South in your area. Joel is to the East of you and the Research center is West of you?? The Albritton name could be the States Name because that Family has been in Florida since day one. Hopefully you have enough cleared land between you and Horse Creek to keep the Caribbean Crazy Ants away from you.

zturncutter
06-04-2011, 04:09 PM
Here is one story on his place, he is close to the creek maybe 500'. http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/news/specials/weirdflorida/blog/2010/10/latest_nonnative_invader_rasbe.html

Ric
06-04-2011, 07:41 PM
Here is one story on his place, he is close to the creek maybe 500'. http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/news/specials/weirdflorida/blog/2010/10/latest_nonnative_invader_rasbe.html

Zturn

Great link that not only backs up what I said, but explains the Caribbean/Rasberry Crazy Ants even better. I have known about the Crazy Ants in the Horse Creek area for a few years now, but this is my first experience of actually seeing them.

Ric
06-06-2011, 08:57 AM
After you go by my place and go down the hill you are in swampland for sure, probably 25 or so feet lower elevation by the creek. The guy I am talking about is at the end of Albritton street about a mile further out Kings Highway and yes his property runs along a section of Horse creek. He has been in the paper several times and I believe researchers from UF have been out there. At times they cover his house, unreal.

Zturn

You are North of Hwy 760 and Horse Creek crosses Hwy 769 South of Hwy 760. So if I am traveling south going back to the coast. I would pass your house then hwy 760 then down the hill about a mile to Horse Creek, CORRECT????????????????? Is that land just south of the river JOHNSON Property???????

Ric
06-06-2011, 11:58 AM
Zturn

You are North of Hwy 760 and Horse Creek crosses Hwy 769 South of Hwy 760. So if I am traveling south going back to the coast. I would pass your house then hwy 760 then down the hill about a mile to Horse Creek, CORRECT????????????????? Is that land just south of the river JOHNSON Property???????

Z Turn

MY BAD

I just did a Map Quest for Albritton street and realize I wasn't understanding your Direction. Your guy is on Horse Creek North of where it crosses Hwy 769 and much closer to Hwy 70. The Dip in Hwy 769 where it crosses Horse Creek seems a lot lower than 25 feet to me.

That area has a lot of very good high and dry land with a lot of Citrus groves. But between the Peace River and Horse Creek there is a lot of bad land also which accounts for the lack of control methods on the Crazy Ants. Yesterday I tried to make it by boat from my house to Hwy 760. According to my GPS I made it about 2 miles north of the old phosphate Rail Road Bridge before running a ground. I am going to take a push pole with me next time because I am told after that short section the river gets deeper. Years ago before GPS I wouldn't try that trip because people have been known to get very lost in that river system.

zturncutter
06-06-2011, 01:51 PM
Your guy is on Horse Creek North of where it crosses Hwy 769 and much closer to Hwy 70.

Correct, except the Hwy that 769 dead ends into is State Hwy 72 not 70.

Ric
06-06-2011, 06:31 PM
Your guy is on Horse Creek North of where it crosses Hwy 769 and much closer to Hwy 70.

Correct, except the Hwy that 769 dead ends into is State Hwy 72 not 70.

Z Turn

I was looking at a map when I typed 70 instead of 72. Just goes to show what age does to your mind. I have forgotten more now than I remember. Yes hwy 72 crosses 70 about 4 or 5 miles to the East of where Hwy 769 dead ends. I am thinking Hwy 70 because it runs through town.

tillerstick
06-07-2011, 11:16 AM
Ric,
You may want to contact Al Turner with Bayer. They have been doing some test plots in the Jax area for CCA. They are a big problem in the NE FL. area. I believe they are testing Temprid for them.

The Jax Zoo is covered up with them. You'll be standing still for a minute and your legs will be covered. Luckily, they don't seem to bite.

Hope this helps.

Ric
06-07-2011, 11:52 AM
Ric,
You may want to contact Al Turner with Bayer. They have been doing some test plots in the Jax area for CCA. They are a big problem in the NE FL. area. I believe they are testing Temprid for them.

The Jax Zoo is covered up with them. You'll be standing still for a minute and your legs will be covered. Luckily, they don't seem to bite.

Hope this helps.

tillerstick

Thanks I am always open to help and this is one time I need a lot of help.

I am not feeling good today so I am home and I have the time to contact Bayer.

There really isn't a whole lot about controlling CCA on the Net or in the Structural Pest Control forums. Even Univar's website has very little information.

If I can find a way to keep CCA at Bay, I am sure I can hit a very nice niche market in the Horse Creek area. However that area is a very affordable working class neighbor that might not have a lot of disposable income for Pest Control.

tillerstick
06-07-2011, 11:57 AM
Glad to help Ric. I know Al from my years at JDL. He is a very good guy and very knowledgeable. Fairly new posting here on Lawnsite, but always enjoy your advice, wisdom and sarcasm. Being in sales, it's always fun to hear someone that isn't afraid to ask for help and also to call BS when it is needed. Hope you get to feeling better. Keep us posted on the ant situation.

Kevin

Ric
06-07-2011, 12:34 PM
Glad to help Ric. I know Al from my years at JDL. He is a very good guy and very knowledgeable. Fairly new posting here on Lawnsite, but always enjoy your advice, wisdom and sarcasm. Being in sales, it's always fun to hear someone that isn't afraid to ask for help and also to call BS when it is needed. Hope you get to feeling better. Keep us posted on the ant situation.

Kevin

Kevin

Thanks again

I left a message on Al Turner's Cell phone, But he is on Vacation until the 13th of June. I have waited this long so an other week is no big deal.

I fire Hosed the Customer's property on June 2nd which should give them a few weeks of relief before the Army of CCA march over them again.

One of the biggest problem with this area is the heavy vegetation or brush under growth on the property and in the area. Just way too many places to hide a nest. I might be fighting a losing battle, but I love a challenge.

zturncutter
06-07-2011, 01:26 PM
Ric, I just talked to Johnny Georges and he said the USDA is now involved at his property. He said no matter what they have tried the treatment only lasts 3 or 4 days. I will PM you his telephone # , he said you were welcome to come out and see the ground move if you would like.

zturncutter
06-07-2011, 01:29 PM
You need to clear some PM space.

Ric
06-07-2011, 04:46 PM
Ric, I just talked to Johnny Georges and he said the USDA is now involved at his property. He said no matter what they have tried the treatment only lasts 3 or 4 days. I will PM you his telephone # , he said you were welcome to come out and see the ground move if you would like.

Allen

I just got off the phone with my Customer. He tells me today (Day 5 after treatment) the Ant trails are starting to come back FROM THE WOODS. But for the last 4 days his Cement slab under the house has been clean of ants. I guess I am not getting any better results than the USDA.

This was my first Treatment and I made sure to do everything totally label legal. In other words I didn't bring out the Chlordane or DDT etc.

BTW I cleared my PM box and I would like to see and talk to your buddy and find out What hasn't worked for them. The one big factor I see on my customer is the heavy under brush on and around his property that will make it impossible to control the CCA.

zturncutter
06-07-2011, 08:01 PM
PM sent.

Alan

Ric
06-08-2011, 09:06 AM
Z turn

I talked with your buddy and the USDA is researching Ant Baits on his property in hopes of finding something that works. Pretty Much trail and Error type research. Of course the Internet university sites etc don't have a whole lot of information either. CCA just don't leave trails to any known bait so far.

CCA kind of remind me of the old days before some of these new miracle insecticides for social insects. We used to have to crawl attics to find Carpenter Ant Nests etc. But with CCA there are too many smaller nests to try and find all of them. Baits seems to be the only economical way to control them IF BAITS WILL WORK. Spraying your property with a skid sprayer twice a week just doesn't fit the Budget.

fl-landscapes
06-09-2011, 02:33 PM
check this out http://www.nbc-2.com/story/14871549/2011/06/08/crazy-ants-invading-fort-myers-neighborhood

good timing on this article today.

Ric
06-11-2011, 01:24 PM
Ric, I just talked to Johnny Georges and he said the USDA is now involved at his property. He said no matter what they have tried the treatment only lasts 3 or 4 days. I will PM you his telephone # , he said you were welcome to come out and see the ground move if you would like.

Alan

Thank you Thank You

Johnny George called me this morning and invited me out to see his Ant Problem. WOW What an educational experience. Johnny has had them for 4 years now and has tried everything. So far nothing has worked him. He had plenty great information for me as well as names and Phone Numbers of several research groups working on CCA.

Johnny has Tom Rasberry's cell number (The guy who discovered these Ant and They are Named after in Texas) Tom Rasberry is smarter than us because when I called him this morning he was fishing. Nice guy and he gave me some time and a few hints on ways to treat CCA.

Johnny ask me how much to use Tom Rasberry's recommendation on his yard and I told him No Charge just be my proving ground and if it works I will make plenty of money down the road. BUT First trick is to control CCA.

I love a challenge and this surely is one. I am not sure I can do any better than the USDA and Universities Etc. But who knows Out of Dumb Luck I just might fall in and come out smelling like a rose.

Ric
06-11-2011, 01:27 PM
One of the thing I forgot to say was how many Ants were all over the Place. There were actual piles on Ants ankle deep and the Cement slab around the house was covered in Ants.

I don't Believe Alfred Hitchcock could make a Horror movie with more Ants.

Florida Gardener
06-11-2011, 01:53 PM
Ric if you can control torpedo grass in St Aug I'm sure you will figure out a control here.
Posted via Mobile Device

Ric
06-11-2011, 02:27 PM
Ric if you can control torpedo grass in St Aug I'm sure you will figure out a control here.
Posted via Mobile Device

Diamond

I am sure Chlordane fire hosed over the Property would suppress these tiny little guys. But the Trick here is first LEGAL according to LABEL LAW and then AFFORDABLE solution to suppress them. What are my chances when you realize PhD Entomologist are working on this with the Resources of the US Government, OH WAIT. Government Wage Slaves working on it??? HEY I just might have a chance.

Florida Gardener
06-11-2011, 02:30 PM
I agree with you Ric I was just saying you are a bright guy....
Posted via Mobile Device

zturncutter
06-11-2011, 04:33 PM
Alan

Thank you Thank You

Johnny George called me this morning and invited me out to see his Ant Problem. WOW What an educational experience. Johnny has had them for 4 years now and has tried everything. So far nothing has worked him. He had plenty great information for me as well as names and Phone Numbers of several research groups working on CCA.

Johnny has Tom Rasberry's cell number (The guy who discovered these Ant and They are Named after in Texas) Tom Rasberry is smarter than us because when I called him this morning he was fishing. Nice guy and he gave me some time and a few hints on ways to treat CCA.

Johnny ask me how much to use Tom Rasberry's recommendation on his yard and I told him No Charge just be my proving ground and if it works I will make plenty of money down the road. BUT First trick is to control CCA.

I love a challenge and this surely is one. I am not sure I can do any better than the USDA and Universities Etc. But who knows Out of Dumb Luck I just might fall in and come out smelling like a rose.

You are welcome, maybe the both of you can benefit. Sorry I could not meet up with you guys but I was out at a ranch east of town until 3:00 or so this afternoon.

fl-landscapes
06-11-2011, 11:03 PM
Diamond

I am sure Chlordane fire hosed over the Property would suppress these tiny little guys. But the Trick here is first LEGAL according to LABEL LAW and then AFFORDABLE solution to suppress them. What are my chances when you realize PhD Entomologist are working on this with the Resources of the US Government, OH WAIT. Government Wage Slaves working on it??? HEY I just might have a chance.

Ric I got an idea. Why not tent the whole property and gas em with your tale pipe like you did egore the armidillo the other day:laugh:

Ric
06-12-2011, 09:05 AM
Ric I got an idea. Why not tent the whole property and gas em with your tale pipe like you did egore the armidillo the other day:laugh:

fl

I see you're not going to let this one go. I not Billy the Exterminator but I am in the Pest Control Business and Egore was a Pest. As a Licensed Trapper, Trapping Armadillo is a sure fire way to eliminate the problem.

BTW I didn't leave egore the armadillo in the gas long enough and he woke up in the Biohazard bag. Really surprised me because he didn't move for a half hour before waking up. I don't think egore was any where near 100% awake or he could have busted out of the Plastic bag. BTW Florida Law doesn't allow catch and release of Nuisance Wild life or relocating the problem. Gassing or Freezing are the two safest and humane oppositions.

bug-guy
06-13-2011, 06:47 AM
i would still try temidor

Ric
06-13-2011, 09:55 AM
i would still try temidor



I think Termidor one foot up & out is a given. But due to label restriction I am also trying Transport. Tom Rasberry tells me Texas has lifted some restriction off of the Termidor label for Rasberry Ants only. I am afraid the Termidor (Phaidor) label is one of the most abused labels in pest control. I would love to keep my treatments as label legal as possible.

So far I have Two Guinea Pigs. The latest has them inside his house while the first one doesn't. In both cases these individuals are so tired of Ants they could care less if we used the A bomb to get rid of them. But it is the Yard that is the major concern in my mind. These are people who live outside as much or more than they do inside. The value there yard and want to take it back. Everything that has been sprayed in the yard only lasts about 3 to 4 days.

I am also in touch with the Davey Institute a division of Davey Tree because of a former Professor. They are working with the USDA or at least sharing information. Their common goal is to find a bait that will work. But once again they could be in favor of the A bomb to knock them down and baits to keep them down. I looking for all the help I can get.


PS a side Benefit to Fire Ants is less snakes because they attack the young. The side benefit to CCA is no Fire Ants because the CCA out compete them. The Cow/Calve industry here in Florida is having no problem with CCA and in fact like them because they eliminate Fire Ants that attack young cattle.

bug-guy
06-13-2011, 04:08 PM
"The new Termidor label separates “outside surfaces” from “foundation perimeter,” with a listing of structures that includes residential, institutional, commercial and industrial buildings and utility enclosures

“The improvement to the label directions adds clarity to treatment of structures beyond the one-foot up and one-foot out from the foundation treatments,” Davis said.

Apply 0.06% Termidor SC or WG finished dilution where listed pests enter the structure, where they trail or crawl and hide or where their nests are found."

greendoctor
06-13-2011, 05:04 PM
Application to vegetation or turf is still not on the label. The labeling now allows application around doors, windows and where utilities penetrate the structure. This is still a structural treatment only except in the districts of Texas covered under the SLN label.

Ric
06-13-2011, 06:06 PM
"The new Termidor label separates “outside surfaces” from “foundation perimeter,” with a listing of structures that includes residential, institutional, commercial and industrial buildings and utility enclosures

“The improvement to the label directions adds clarity to treatment of structures beyond the one-foot up and one-foot out from the foundation treatments,” Davis said.

Apply 0.06% Termidor SC or WG finished dilution where listed pests enter the structure, where they trail or crawl and hide or where their nests are found."

Thank You Green Doctor.

Yes as I said above Termidor is the most Misapplied Pesticide on the market today. Sure it is sliced bread of pest control that all other Pesticide are being judged. If we don't stop over applying Termidor, the EPA will BAN IT.


Bug Guy

First let me say Top Choice which is Fipronil is now a RUP. All of the ""Over & Out"" Fipronil also that was a home owner product has been taken off the shelves instead of letting the inventory run out. BTW Top Choice never lasted in Florida's sandy soil which has no CEC(chemical holding power)

Second, I was just starting to read your post when BASF tech support called me back. I ask the Tech Rep about Your post and he said. You are reading what you want and not what is meant by following trails to nests and other structures. Termidor is still a Structural Insecticide and not intended to be applied on Turf or Ornamental.

The big problem with CCA is stopping them before they reach the House (structure). Termidor does a nice job on the structure but can not be applied to the yard LEGALLY. Most entomologist are recommending Termidor as a Perimeter treatment and a Repellent Insecticide on the yard followed by heavy Baiting.

I have been told to use a bunch of different products by people in the know. So far I have not had a chance to try any of them. But I do have a Treatment plan I am hopeful will suppress the CCA for a reasonable period of time. I order Chemical today that will be delivered tomorrow. Hopefully I can report good progress in a week or so when these Chemicals start to work. BTW Nothing is cheap when it comes to using Long term residual pesticides.

greendoctor
06-13-2011, 07:14 PM
I did a little research on fipronil. Apparently, it is environmentally persistent, toxic to birds, aquatic organisms and bees. I also found out how toxic it is to mammals. No wonder usage is restricted to applications that will not expose humans or go off site. Having said that, I am surprised that it is used on the skin of a dog, that would most likely be touched by its owners, both adult and children.

Ric
06-13-2011, 11:50 PM
I did a little research on fipronil. Apparently, it is environmentally persistent, toxic to birds, aquatic organisms and bees. I also found out how toxic it is to mammals. No wonder usage is restricted to applications that will not expose humans or go off site. Having said that, I am surprised that it is used on the skin of a dog, that would most likely be touched by its owners, both adult and children.

Green

Dr Ali told my class many years ago, Fipronil caused Liver Cancer in Dogs that wore the collar for 30 years. But Dogs only has a 15 year life so use Fipronil.

I am afraid that theory or practice is a lot more common than we know.

Life is not perfect and too much Fipronil will kill you just as dead as too much water can drown you. We can live pure as the Snow and get hit by car. I am sorry certain Fipronil product are no longer RUP. I feel this is one chemical getting abused badly. BTW the main name player is know off patent and Control Solution is making a generic. It is not registered in all states.

Ric
06-15-2011, 09:10 PM
Here is a picture of Dead Caribbean Crazy Ants that I picked up from the side of the house. I didn't sweep them into a pile. I only reached down a grabbed a hand full. This might give you an idea of how many of these Ants there are. BTW they are only 1/8 inch or smaller.









t

Landscape Poet
06-15-2011, 10:14 PM
Here is a picture of Dead Caribbean Crazy Ants that I picked up from the side of the house. I didn't sweep them into a pile. I only reached down a grabbed a hand full. This might give you an idea of how many of these Ants there are. BTW they are only 1/8 inch or smaller.









t


Ric,

I was at a group of homes today in a subdivision in which I do several properties in a row. One of the clients was in his front lawn when I arrived and was awaiting his PCO to show up as he thought he had seen termites in the driveway of his home and several of the homes on the block. The sales rep showed up and no ants were visiable at first, but then the weather cooled drastically as a front moved in and bang - ants everywhere in driveways along the sidewalk as I edged.

The Drake sale rep said they were carpenter ants - my experience seeing carpenter ants is limited but they did not look like what I thought carpenter ants looked like. A quick search on google this evening confirmed that I was correct in them not looking the same as what were on this property.

What I did see looked like the one pictured here (http://collierpestcontrol.com/ant-carib-crazy.html) with the light tan and black striped segment - there were thousands of them in each yard - some had wings - and of those with wings some were almost pure black and smaller - others were more like the ones in the link provided but with wings - I am assuming different stages. If I can get a close up photo of them would you be able to ID the ant here? I am interested as I have never seen so many ants over a vast area just running all over, literally there are 6 8k lawns that were just bleeding them out of the turf and randomly running across the driveway.

zturncutter
06-15-2011, 10:21 PM
And the Ants shall inherit the earth, I thought we only had to worry about the meek :laugh:

Ric
06-16-2011, 08:39 AM
And the Ants shall inherit the earth, I thought we only had to worry about the meek :laugh:

Alan

That picture was taken at your Buddies House. I am hope to get out to his house later in the afternoon today. After some research and many phone call and E mails to my Go To People, I order some High powered stuff that I want to try on his place. My goal is to knock them back for one month until the next treatment.

zturncutter
06-18-2011, 09:17 PM
Just picked up a new account today on the west side of Horse Creek, one of the first things he started talking about was the Crazy ants. Basically a weekend cabin/campground, basic maintenance.

Ric
06-19-2011, 01:03 AM
Just picked up a new account today on the west side of Horse Creek, one of the first things he started talking about was the Crazy ants. Basically a weekend cabin/campground, basic maintenance.

Alan

I treated Johnny's place on Friday afternoon with the A bomb. Now it is wait and see if I did any good. One thing nice about Johnny's place compared to other places in the Horse Creek area, is his land is cleared which makes my job that much easier. In fact that is some beautiful Oak Hammock area. Most all the trees are lifted and have grass under them.

I really wonder if I am going to do any good. After all top entomologist can't find a solution so what makes me think I can?? I am following Tom Rasberry's advice and maybe I can get some relief. next treatment I already have a plan I wished I tried this time.

Right now I will tell you to hold off suggesting we can help your customer. Once we see favorable results at Johnny's house, we can talk a different story. I still have an ace up my sleeve if all else fails.

Ric
06-25-2011, 08:57 AM
.

A sad Up Date: The Enola Gay dropped the A Bomb but it only lasted a few days longer than the everyday stuff the other guys were using. At least I got little more residual, but at what cost???? The A bomb was rather an expensive treatment. While this was disappointing, I still have a few more tricks up my sleeve and will reload the cannon for another Broad side.

Landscape Poet
07-07-2011, 06:47 PM
Ric,

Just got this in my newsletter from the County extension today. Not sure if it will aid you in your efforts but thought I would share just in case.

http://www.pctonline.com/pct-0411-caribbean-ants-research.aspx

Ric
07-07-2011, 09:17 PM
Ric,

Just got this in my newsletter from the County extension today. Not sure if it will aid you in your efforts but thought I would share just in case.

http://www.pctonline.com/pct-0411-caribbean-ants-research.aspx

Mikey

Thanks for the link, I am never too proud to except help. I will say the timing of there treatment was late in the season and CCA are dormant under a certain temperature. I am not saying their treatment didn't last. Just thinking colder weather scued the residual time. In my defense they are dealing in a city where they can treat an open 2 acres. I am dealing with Under Brush and heavy wooded areas. I am only Treating 3/4 of an acre. But I will try there method since it varys from my method.

At present time the heavy Rains have me at a stand still. I do have Liquid bait stations around the house and I sprayed heavy inside the Pereimeter of the Bait stations.

I will admit I might of bite off more than I should of. This is out in Agriculture country and people have been trying every chemical every made and then some. They pulled Chlordane DDT, and stuff I never heard of, out of the barn and poured it on the CCA.

Ric
07-22-2011, 10:05 AM
.

I would love to report all is well, But that is not the case. After a month and half I am about ready to give up the ghost. But Rome wasn't build in day so I will plug on.

Yesterday morning I spend about 3 hours with Dr. David Oi of the USDA on Johnny Georges property. Interesting Fellow and I learned a lot. But none of it seems to help when it comes to CCA. But what was interesting was Dr David admitted he was picking my brain for field experience as well as me trying to pick his brain. He is a real down to earth person.

The big problem with these ants which we know very little about, is the ability to propagate profusely. We can't kill them fast enough. Plus they don't seem to be attracted to any one food source to use baits. The Terro bait stations I set out had Nests under them if that tells you any thing about this problem.

RussellB
07-22-2011, 03:55 PM
This has been a good read. Thanks guys and good luck. I sure hope they don't migrate up here to South Carolina.

zturncutter
07-22-2011, 05:03 PM
Ric.

If you are interested I can give you the contact info for the guy across Horse creek from Johnny. When I was out there last Saturday he was refilling his bait stations although he says they are not doing much good. He also told me he was meeting with someone this last week, maybe the same guy that you met with at Johnny's. Like I said before this property is used primarily for the weekends for camping but does have a small building on it, which the ants are in. The ants are all over the place down by the creek but I didn't see any up on the end of the property by the road, he says the mornings are the worst, they cover almost everything. He might have an insight you haven't thought of.

Ric
07-22-2011, 05:58 PM
Ric.

If you are interested I can give you the contact info for the guy across Horse creek from Johnny. When I was out there last Saturday he was refilling his bait stations although he says they are not doing much good. He also told me he was meeting with someone this last week, maybe the same guy that you met with at Johnny's. Like I said before this property is used primarily for the weekends for camping but does have a small building on it, which the ants are in. The ants are all over the place down by the creek but I didn't see any up on the end of the property by the road, he says the mornings are the worst, they cover almost everything. He might have an insight you haven't thought of.

Alan

If I had some kind of cure or answer I would be jumping for more customers. But I really can't offer anything substantial at this time. What little bit that shows any promise of control, require tons of product to produce a small dent in the population. I will be retreating Johnny's on Sunday morning if you would like to get together and talk with your customer. But I am not going to try and sell him real hard. I will only lay out the facts and try and help him. To date I have not charged Johnny George the first penny. He even said I had lost close to a thousand dollar in Time and Materials.


While CCA do not bite of sting they cause thousands of dollars damage to any electrical boxes and motors. We believe it is because ants have a build in GPS system that works off the Earth's magnetic field. This theory has not been proven, but it is widely accepted for many many years. The problem comes when the tiny worker ant just keep piling up on the Electric wires. Tear a Motor down and Wire windings are covered with Ants. Breaker Boxes and the Breakers themselves are for ever having to be replaced quite often.

I will retreating Johnny on Sunday He has already lost a New well pump to the CCA and of course many Breakers etc. I will be putting a lot of attention into his Electrical system in hopes of saving it from more damage than necessary.

BTW one of my Ideas was to install a Automatic Spray System not unlike the Mosquito Mist systems. The Idea is Repellent insecticides seem to be working for 3 days. Therefore every 3 days a automatic spray would come on.

PS Even Dr David Oi admitted he didn't know a lot about these ants and he is an Ant Expert with the USDA. He collected several nests with Queens and to my surprise carried them back to Gainesville in open trays. But the education he gave about Ants in General was well worth all the time and money I have thrown at the CCA.

zturncutter
07-22-2011, 06:10 PM
I wasn't thinking of this guy as a potential customer but more as someone you might talk to about what he and his pest control guy have used and if they have had any success with anything. On second thought though at this point probably not worth the time because I don't think what he is using is working.

zturncutter
07-22-2011, 06:14 PM
He collected several nests with Queens and to my surprise carried them back to Gainesville in open trays.

Perhaps the beginning of the Gainesville infestation.

Ric
07-22-2011, 06:53 PM
He collected several nests with Queens and to my surprise carried them back to Gainesville in open trays.

Perhaps the beginning of the Gainesville infestation.


OH YEA

I scared myself thinking I brought CCA home. In fact I am not totally sure I didn't except I have not seen any and it has been over a month.

BTW There are enough people unhappy with their service provider that I don't try and convert happy ones to me.

bug-guy
09-03-2011, 06:47 PM
ric

have you looked at this product ?

http://www.envincio.com/product-dload/Equil_Adonis_2F_SpecLabel.pdf

it has a turf label


joe

Ric
09-03-2011, 07:19 PM
ric

have you looked at this product ?

http://www.envincio.com/product-dload/Equil_Adonis_2F_SpecLabel.pdf

it has a turf label


joe

Joe

I have not tried that Name brand product. But my attempts have included Imidacloprid and may be even at a rate equal to or higher yearly rate than the label calls for.

bug-guy
09-03-2011, 07:28 PM
just wanted to throw it out there.

there still is some top choice that is not rup out there

joe

zturncutter
09-03-2011, 07:42 PM
I have found them on another of my accounts, was doing some hand weeding and realized my hand was covered, man they can move.

Ric
09-03-2011, 07:59 PM
just wanted to throw it out there.

there still is some top choice that is not rup out there

joe

Joe

Not too much I haven't tried. I really didn't keep track of how much I spend trying to get rid of the CCA. I know between my time etc, it would add way up and the Customer Never paid a dine. But then He never got any relief.

jonmsu
09-17-2011, 08:08 AM
Fixing the cca problems is hard but not impossible. I know chemical companies are looking for a new patent or device to generate revenue. Unfortunately this redirects their thinking. Ric try to use a lower dosage with baiting traps designed as far away from the house as possible. Use sugar and protein- like crab meat leftovers. Please remember that cca take longer than most ant species to get back to a colony; usually 48 hours. Thus; the stronger the dosage, the quicker the kill, the worse the results. If you need more let me know.

Ric
09-17-2011, 12:04 PM
Fixing the cca problems is hard but not impossible. I know chemical companies are looking for a new patent or device to generate revenue. Unfortunately this redirects their thinking. Ric try to use a lower dosage with baiting traps designed as far away from the house as possible. Use sugar and protein- like crab meat leftovers. Please remember that cca take longer than most ant species to get back to a colony; usually 48 hours. Thus; the stronger the dosage, the quicker the kill, the worse the results. If you need more let me know.

Jon MichSU???

Been there and done the sugar/protein baits. I even purchased several commercial Cake mixes (attractants for baits) and added my own insecticide at low dose in hopes of getting it in the food chain. One trick I tried was a Plywood board sprayed with Termidor and a non insecticide bait in the middle. I spread several different granular baits because they have worked in other areas. I also fire hosed over an acre with Bifen XTS high rate and Imidacloprid. I wanted to control any sucking insects that might provide honey dew.

I think what you are missing is the Habitat I am dealing with. The CCA are spread over a 10 sq mile or more area that is a wet land river basin with heavy brush. Flooding should help control them, but only drives them to higher ground. If I were to gain control of a small area it would be a short time before the CCA would retake the area. IMHO the size of the infestation now requires Government intervention and treatment. Which BTW is happen if you read earlier in the thread where I was working with Dr Oi of the USDA. He and others are working on finding a bait that works.

I love to tackle problems and I am always looking for that pie in the sky that I can make a Billion dollars on. But I also try and be pragmatic and know when to turn tail and run the other direction. After spending over a thousand dollar of my own money plus a lot of time, I decided there are other fish in the sea that are easier to catch.

BTW Thanks for trying to help.

jonmsu
09-20-2011, 10:35 AM
You are right in the habitat it does matter greatly. I have not been to area but did fix them in other areas. I did what you have done the only thing is I would bait the edges of the customers properties with the sugar and protein attractants then would spread an area of intice granules around the bait station in a 10 ft to 20 ft circum. then repeat again with a larger circle going out another 10 to 20 feet using a transfer effect product cut by at least a 1/6 of lowest label concentration. As they travel through the transport product to intice granuales and eventually the protein/ sugar you begin to get control. This has to be followed weekly or more to get under control. Normally 3-5 bait targets spread farthest from house or based on 2 acres. Takes about 8 weeks. It will need to be monitored monthly there after as you know with that habitat they will eventually comeback. We knocked them out in sub. of 15 homes on about 10 acres but nothing your size, but if customers can afford then the relief is priceless. My goal was relief for the customer. Yes Go MSU!

Ric
09-20-2011, 01:37 PM
You are right in the habitat it does matter greatly. I have not been to area but did fix them in other areas. I did what you have done the only thing is I would bait the edges of the customers properties with the sugar and protein attractants then would spread an area of intice granules around the bait station in a 10 ft to 20 ft circum. then repeat again with a larger circle going out another 10 to 20 feet using a transfer effect product cut by at least a 1/6 of lowest label concentration. As they travel through the transport product to intice granuales and eventually the protein/ sugar you begin to get control. This has to be followed weekly or more to get under control. Normally 3-5 bait targets spread farthest from house or based on 2 acres. Takes about 8 weeks. It will need to be monitored monthly there after as you know with that habitat they will eventually comeback. We knocked them out in sub. of 15 homes on about 10 acres but nothing your size, but if customers can afford then the relief is priceless. My goal was relief for the customer. Yes Go MSU!

Jon

I am not sure where you are located, but I am told by Dr Oi of the USDA, CCA are greatly effected by the temperature. In the colder winter the CCA return to a mother colony where they hibernate or over winter. In the spring or as the temperature rises they expand there territory.

When I started to experiment on controlling CCA the property had a bad Flea infestation also. That tells me the property really had no or little blanket insecticide treatment. My first move was to hose down the place with Bifenthrin and Imidacloprid which lasted about 5 days before the CCA were back in force. The Fleas were gone and a Repeat treatment of Bifenthrin 30 later hopefully got the new hatch eggs.

I am a Certified Pesticide Tech or an end user, I am not a Research scientist with a budget to use as I please. All money spend, came out of my pocket. to quote Shakespeare ""Discretion is the better part of valor."" and My discretion tells me it is time to give up the ghost and move on to something I can be more successful.

burneyr
10-02-2011, 02:01 PM
Caribbean Crazy Ants in the news:

http://news.yahoo.com/hairy-crazy-ants-invade-texas-miss-150823360.html

tillerstick
10-02-2011, 04:37 PM
I've now seen them in Coastal Ga. At my house!! Being a chemical sales rep, I'm gonna try a few different things. First is going to be Lamda.

agrostis
10-02-2011, 09:20 PM
These things are worse than fire ants. -

http://news.yahoo.com/hairy-crazy-ants-invade-texas-miss-150823360.html