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JoJo1990
06-05-2011, 04:02 PM
I've been doing some reading and hear a lot of back on forth on liquid VS dry humate application. I think it's obvious that a liquid application for foliar feeding of humates is going to be the quickest uptake by the plant. If my goal would be to add more organic matter to the soil, I'm not sure which would be more effective. I also see lots of rates from 10-70% Humate by weight.

For those of you on an organic application program, which do you use or prefer? I had planned on adding humate application a tea program for future use.

NattyLawn
06-05-2011, 10:36 PM
I've been doing some reading and hear a lot of back on forth on liquid VS dry humate application. I think it's obvious that a liquid application for foliar feeding of humates is going to be the quickest uptake by the plant. If my goal would be to add more organic matter to the soil, I'm not sure which would be more effective. I also see lots of rates from 10-70% Humate by weight.

For those of you on an organic application program, which do you use or prefer? I had planned on adding humate application a tea program for future use.

If you want to build organic matter, granular applications are best. I use two products for this. One is Humamend Maxx and the other is Finesse GVH. One is a leonardite/soluble humate mix, and the other is a worm casting/leonardite mix. The leonardite I believe is 65% minimum, while the soluble humate is 85-90%.

Smallaxe
06-06-2011, 07:42 AM
Will soluable humates stay in a sandy soil?

NattyLawn
06-06-2011, 10:34 PM
Will soluable humates stay in a sandy soil?

Short answer. Yes. :)

http://teravita.com/Humates/Chapter6.htm

Smallaxe
06-07-2011, 08:26 AM
Short answer. Yes. :)

http://teravita.com/Humates/Chapter6.htm

That is an interestting article...

Is it not true that when OM breaks down to its basic form, it is a humate?
for exa.,
Wouldn't the compost/manure eventually become some form of humate itself and benefit soil structure, even though in there present form they are not that great???

Just need some additional teaching on understanding the phrase, "However, in spite of high nutritious value of these products, their bond with organic mass is too close, and it decreases their assimilation. That is why these products are used in large quantities (up to 60-80 ton/hectare). Introduction of humic substances solves the problem very effectively."

NattyLawn
06-07-2011, 03:41 PM
One thing to consider is humates are a stable form of humus, while compost is not.

About the phrase....One of the positive aspects of humates is they meter nutrients out to plants based on need. I don't know if that answers your question.

Smallaxe
06-08-2011, 09:28 AM
Each answer create more questions. :)

So after a period of time, compost will not break down into a 'stable form of humus'? If humates are not being part of the natural cycle now? Where did they come from?

NattyLawn
06-09-2011, 04:39 PM
Each answer create more questions. :)

So after a period of time, compost will not break down into a 'stable form of humus'? If humates are not being part of the natural cycle now? Where did they come from?

Over time the compost will form stable humus. Humates are part of the natural cycle, but we don't have them here on our new homes with topsoil removed, mowed turf, mulched trees, etc.

Where do they come from? Leonardite, or soft coal.

Smallaxe
06-09-2011, 10:30 PM
Over time the compost will form stable humus. Humates are part of the natural cycle, but we don't have them here on our new homes with topsoil removed, mowed turf, mulched trees, etc.

Where do they come from? Leonardite, or soft coal.

Not sure about Leonardite, but soft coal is derived from Organic material that may or may not have undergone pressure and/or heat...

In your first statement, are you saying that "Over time the compost will form stable humus" that these compounds will eventually leave 'humates'...
Therefore, in the mean time, adding the existing humates from leonardite or soft coal makes up for the deficit realized in the new developments, in which topsoil was removed or othewise compromised?

Am I close to understanding what is happening here? :)

Hineline
06-12-2011, 08:23 PM
Leonardite is Jurassic period compost. The liquid form has usually been activated and it's properties can readily be available for organic chelation of minerals for plant uptake along with it's plant health properties. Many dry humates are unprocessed or not activated and will take time to work in soils but that will give them a timed release mechanism for sandier soils.

Smallaxe
06-13-2011, 08:28 AM
Leonardite is Jurassic period compost. The liquid form has usually been activated and it's properties can readily be available for organic chelation of minerals for plant uptake along with it's plant health properties. Many dry humates are unprocessed or not activated and will take time to work in soils but that will give them a timed release mechanism for sandier soils.

Old compost forms humates, better than fresh compost... Or should we say that it has had time to be reduced to humates...
Now activated charcoal is basically uninhabited microscopic nooks and cranies that easily adsorb many other elements... Is this the same meaning for Leonardite?

NattyLawn
06-26-2011, 07:16 PM
Leonardite is Jurassic period compost. The liquid form has usually been activated and it's properties can readily be available for organic chelation of minerals for plant uptake along with it's plant health properties. Many dry humates are unprocessed or not activated and will take time to work in soils but that will give them a timed release mechanism for sandier soils.

True, most "dry" humates are not "activated", or soluble, but they are a stable form of humus/carbon. I use fertilizers with containing soluble humate, and a lenardite products that are coated with soluble humate.

clips
07-03-2011, 11:14 AM
Old compost forms humates, better than fresh compost... Or should we say that it has had time to be reduced to humates.?

Compost forms Humic substances and i would think older compost can form more over time too.

Humates are the term used for the resulting humic's extracted from leonardites or oxidized lignites.

UKblue
08-15-2011, 08:08 PM
How do you activate humate?