PDA

View Full Version : Overseeding Bermuda and St. Augustine Lawns with Fescue in the Fall.


l3randonf
06-15-2011, 04:19 PM
I have done some reading and come to the conclusion that if I want to drop fescue seeds into a bermuda or st augustine lawn here in the state of Texas, that I should do it in the fall when the temps are about 75 degrees or so.

My question is... should I bag the entire yard when I mow it right before seeding to allow the seeds a better chance to make it to the soil?

Any other things I should do to ensure proper growth? Anything I should do differently when seeding into a bermuda lawn vs seeding into a st augustine lawn?

Thanks for all insights.

Patriot Services
06-15-2011, 04:45 PM
Wouldn't you rather use an annual rye in the fall for green throughout the winter and then it will die out when temps are more favorable to SA and Bermuda.
Posted via Mobile Device

l3randonf
06-15-2011, 06:27 PM
ok yea the rye sounds like a better plan.

Anything I need to do to the bermuda/st augustine lawns right before I seed other than bag the last mow?

Richard Martin
06-15-2011, 06:43 PM
ok yea the rye sounds like a better plan.

Anything I need to do to the bermuda/st augustine lawns right before I seed other than bag the last mow?

Nope. You could sow annual rye onto asphalt and it would grow. I hate that stuff with a passion. It's okay as long as you don't mind a neon green lawn. Tractor Supply sells a grass mixture that is 60% tall fescues and 40% annual rye. I tried that on one customer's lawn and we were both very happy with the results.

ed2hess
06-15-2011, 07:34 PM
You got to strip it down almost to the dirt to get a perfect stand of rye. Don't even think about bagging just lower the machine a notch at a time and throw it towards the center into a big row. Then bag and maybe use a bagger to finish the final clean-up. Now....most cites are passing laws to prevent this overseeding because it uses a lot of water and they want water off in winter. And in our area you can't water but two days a week so rye don't come up very well unti around November.

l3randonf
06-15-2011, 07:51 PM
You got to strip it down almost to the dirt to get a perfect stand of rye. Don't even think about bagging just lower the machine a notch at a time and throw it towards the center into a big row. Then bag and maybe use a bagger to finish the final clean-up.

I am not understanding what you are saying here. Please explain in a noob friendly way. Thanks for your time.

unkownfl
06-15-2011, 11:12 PM
What type of St Augustine are you talking about?

l3randonf
06-16-2011, 12:39 AM
What type of St Augustine are you talking about?

I'm not sure which kind of SA it is. Do you treat the various strains differently?

unkownfl
06-16-2011, 01:01 AM
I'm not sure which kind of SA it is. Do you treat the various strains differently?

We do here. I have never heard of over seeding SA but our winters are probably a lot more milder here than compared to TX. This probably allows us to have green lawns 365 depending on the verity of grass. Which would be pointless to over seed. I over seed Bermuda lawns with the rye.

Patriot Services
06-17-2011, 09:44 PM
Given our winters have gotten a little cooler here in Tampa . Most of the SA yards went dormant brown. I tried a rye overseed on a few SA yards and it performed the same as on Bermuda. Green all winter and it died out about April. With the SA, Atrazine will kill of any rye that may survive.
Posted via Mobile Device

unkownfl
06-17-2011, 10:19 PM
Given our winters have gotten a little cooler here in Tampa . Most of the SA yards went dormant brown. I tried a rye overseed on a few SA yards and it performed the same as on Bermuda. Green all winter and it died out about April. With the SA, Atrazine will kill of any rye that may survive.
Posted via Mobile Device

Were they floratam? I have bitter blue throughout the yard and was mowing twice a month. My customers with floratam all went dormant and I didn't touch them for a month and a half. I wouldn't mow our SA to short and then over seed would you patriot?

Southern Elegance
06-17-2011, 10:24 PM
use pre. rye not annual. pre. rye is dark green low growing

Patriot Services
06-17-2011, 10:26 PM
No, I don't mow any SA less than 4". We don't see much bitter blue around here. Floratam seems to be the most popular strain.
Posted via Mobile Device

ed2hess
06-17-2011, 11:06 PM
I am not understanding what you are saying here. Please explain in a noob friendly way. Thanks for your time.

You need to get all the green grass off....so use your mower in a side discharger. You begin in the center of the area and go clockwise. Each time you lower the mower one notch. If you attempt to go to the ground on the first pass the motor will not be strong enough. The idea is to end with a pile in the center. Then get some large plastic bags and bag it up. What remains can be picked up with a baggin mower. We have big bagging mowers but in the end the way I describe is the fastest.

l3randonf
08-25-2011, 06:47 PM
Furthermore, I was planning on using pre-emergent in the fall and spring on this lawn.

So, can I seed the Rye the first of october when temps are in the 70's and then use the pre-emergent the first of november after the rye seeds have had their chance to germinate?

Then pre-emergent again in the spring?

I shouldn't have to seed bermuda again in the spring to make sure the bermuda comes back right? Or should I seed the bermuda in the spring just to be sure they get a summer lawn back?

Az Gardener
08-25-2011, 10:26 PM
I think most pre emergent will kill the rye. That's how I get rid of it in the spring anyway. You will want to put down some 6-20-20 when you seed and get 3 lbs of actual N. down before thanksgiving to keep it green throughout the coldest months of winter. If not you will be needing a spray application of iron in Dec. & Jan. to get it green.

I don't know how temps are in Dallas but we over seed in very late Sept. up to mid Oct. much beyond that and it will still come up just much slower. Our temps will still be in the high 90's. to low 100's during the day.

BrunoT
08-31-2011, 12:54 AM
Furthermore, I was planning on using pre-emergent in the fall and spring on this lawn.

So, can I seed the Rye the first of october when temps are in the 70's and then use the pre-emergent the first of november after the rye seeds have had their chance to germinate?

Then pre-emergent again in the spring?

I shouldn't have to seed bermuda again in the spring to make sure the bermuda comes back right? Or should I seed the bermuda in the spring just to be sure they get a summer lawn back?

This is a strange combination of things to me. But usually pre-emergent destroys seedlings. Labels typically say not to use it till the new seedlings have been mowed a few times or something to that effect.

Bermuda is sensitive to herbicides and if you put out preemergent seeding is out of the question. It may not even be ready for some of them in the spring, so you may have more crabgrass type stuff in the summer.

Also you will have a hard time getting an even coverage with rye if you don't use a slit seeder or at least mow the bermuda very low to allow sunlight in. Yes, Rye grows easily, but it also won't grown everywhere evenly if it's not reaching the soil.

I've overseeded rye in the winter before and it's not all it's cracked up to be in my opinion. It means you keep mowing and then have a longer period of it not looking right during spring greenup. I also had several months of surviving die-hard rye plants to get rid of here and there. Since it has a higher growth habit, it ruins the uniformity till its all gone.

The pale green look, the sparse coverage with bermuda stems visable underneath, it's not worth the trouble to me. I also note several badly done jobs each winter that wind up looking terrible.

h2oskier
08-31-2011, 01:11 AM
l3 Ed Hess has led you the right direction, but try just using the pre-em the first part of spring before the SA or bermuda comes out of the dorment stage. Like said before if you use pre-em before you will kill the seed.

alexschultz1
08-31-2011, 01:35 AM
dont over do it on the seed, i made the mistake of double aerating my lawn, then followed that with a slit seeder. Basically i turned my beautiful bermuda lawn into a beautiful rye grass lawn. which was awesome, until summer came and i realized i destroyed my bermuda by choking it out with to much seed...:cry: still have yet to get my yard back to normal

rob640
08-31-2011, 08:51 PM
I overseeded my bermuda with annual rye last fall.. I liked it all fall and winter but it kind of becomes a PITA to be honest with you... if you do seed just make sure u do it when temps are low enought one mistake i made was doing it too soon and not getting best coverage.. i had to go back over a secont time.. In april the lawn starts looking rough.. its in a transitional point where you still have some green patches of rye.. i got my bermuda lawn back but it took longer than others coming out of dormantcy