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View Full Version : So if I change to synthetic oil?


dualsmows
06-17-2011, 05:55 AM
Can I change my oil changing from 50 hours to 100 hours?

mnglocker
06-17-2011, 07:06 AM
I still change mine at 50. Mowers get a ton of dust and dirt contamination and filters plug up. Besides, what are we talking here, $5-8 more per change, that's not that much considering the wear and tear saved on the engine.

MOW ED
06-17-2011, 07:11 AM
As stated above synthetic will not give you extended changes on small engines. The advantage of synthetic is less oil breakdown in the high heat environment of a small engine. It still gets dirty and heat and dirt are the eventual killers of small engines over time. Amsoil has a bypass filter system that is suppose to extend intervals but I am unsure if they are made for small engines. You can research that if you want on their website.
I use synthetic in everything but still keep my tight change intervals for the small engines. My 2000 Walker 26EFI just hit 2000 hours, it doesn't use a drop of oil.

NORTHMAN
06-17-2011, 07:15 AM
I called Kawasaki about this and they said you still have to change the oil at 50 hours with synthetic.

topsites
06-17-2011, 07:47 AM
That is correct, superior lubrication does not extend your engine's oil change intervals,
anyone who claims otherwise should back this up with a FULL warranty on your engine.

However....
Synthetic doesn't have to be changed every 3 months if you haven't put the hours on it,
synthetic can sit in an engine apparently for years without breaking down like conventional oil,
it is certainly a great oil to have for those engines that sit around doing nothing most of the time.

ommegang
06-17-2011, 08:42 AM
That's good to hear. I changed to synthetic after initial break-in. 2008 25HP Kawi with only 55 hrs. Manual says not to change again until 100hrs. Oil still looks good.

UfoPilot
06-17-2011, 03:03 PM
My corvette came from the factory with synthetic oil in it. If it's good enough for a $60,000 corvette it should be good enough for a mower.

A-1 LAWN
06-17-2011, 05:28 PM
what grade synthetic are you guys running? 5w30 10 w30??

ommegang
06-17-2011, 05:54 PM
Somebody said Amsoil make synthetic for small engines. I will try to finf that I think. What weight do motorcycles use?

Skidpad
06-17-2011, 09:13 PM
Somebody said Amsoil make synthetic for small engines. I will try to finf that I think. What weight do motorcycles use?
Here's the link for the Amsoil Small Engine Oil:
https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ase.aspx
Posted via Mobile Device

dualsmows
06-18-2011, 07:56 AM
One of the engines has 900 hours on it. Will switching with that many hrs. hurt anything?

Bagit
06-18-2011, 08:37 AM
If the dealer puts regular oil in the engine then that's what the manufacturer recommends it uses for the life of the engine. I wouldn't use the synthetic.

Shoreline
06-18-2011, 08:51 AM
Bagit, do you believe everything the dealer tells you? Change your oil often enough and you'll be fine with dino oil, but if you really want to protect your equipment, use synthetics! Amsoil is what I use in all my equipment.

Bagit
06-18-2011, 09:12 AM
Sythetic oil can cause reduced oil pressure, not a good thing for the life of an engine. BTW my dealer has told me nothing about the subject of oils...

mykayel
06-18-2011, 09:29 AM
Sythetic oil can cause reduced oil pressure, not a good thing for the life of an engine. BTW my dealer has told me nothing about the subject of oils...

How? If anything, they would keep oil pressure up as they don't break down and loose their viscosity over time and with heat like dino oil will.

Manufactures and dealers don't put synthetic in engines only because of cost. Synthetic is superior to dino oil, there's no debate about it. Just think about it; the only time it 'might' be recomended to use dino oil is for break in. During break-in you are lntentially letting parts wear togeter, you might not want to use synthetic during break-in because of its superior lubrication 'might' prevent that from happening. So after break-in, why would you want to use an oil that allowes metal parts to wear?

Bagit
06-18-2011, 09:44 AM
Sythetic oil is thinner than petrolium oil and sythetic doesn't have much friction about it's makeup. Engines have been running fine on "dino oil" for over a hundred years. I'll stick with what is proven.

ProStreetCamaro
06-18-2011, 10:11 AM
Sythetic oil is thinner than petrolium oil and sythetic doesn't have much friction about it's makeup. Engines have been running fine on "dino oil" for over a hundred years. I'll stick with what is proven.


Completely wrong. Synthetic is not thinner. a 10W-30 is a 10W-30 plain and simple. If that was the case you would see cars and trucks with lower oil pressure when they use synthetic and that is not the case. Synthetic does pour better in the cold because it does not gel up as bad not because it is thinner. Synthetic is "slicker" which is a good thing plus it is more stable than dino oil and resists heat and oxidation much better which is great for small hot running air cooled engines. Even kawasakis own oil is a semi synthetic.


P.S. I have never changed the oil in any of our mowers every 50 hours. Not even every 100 hours. More like once maybe twice a season. Never had an engine failure. Our 18hp kohler magnum had 3 oil changes in 3200 hours and was still strong when we sold the mower. Our lazer you see in my sig has had maybe 6 oil changes in 2500 hours and still runs like a top. Why people think these engines get dirt inside is beyond me especially with the donaldson air filter. None of mine have ever had that filter. Keep the pre filter cleaned and oiled and blow out the regular filter twice a year and you should be getting next to zero dirt inside the engine.

btanchors
06-18-2011, 10:22 AM
mykayel and ProStreetCamero are both correct.

Synthetic oil IS proven. I've personally been using synthetics for 35 years now.

Many high end auto manufacturers require its use for warranties to stay in effect.

There is no question they are superior to regular oil.

SouthSide Cutter
06-18-2011, 11:20 AM
Sythetic oil is thinner than petrolium oil and sythetic doesn't have much friction about it's makeup. Engines have been running fine on "dino oil" for over a hundred years. I'll stick with what is proven.

You have no clue what your talking about. If you think anybody in NASCAR, INDY CAR, NHRA, AVIATION or just about anything else uses reg dino oil your wrong. Syn oil is proven in mtrs and all gearboxes-rearends. And if you have ever seen a mtr apart that was run on reg oil then switched to syn oil after a rebuild then run on syn oil you would know what I am talking about.

Andyshine77
08-12-2011, 04:41 AM
Let's clear a few things up in this thread about modern oil.

To start syn oils are not slicker than conventional oils, that's an old wives' tale. Their really is no such thing as a full syn oil, the refinement process and the additive package is what makes true syn and Ester syn oils. Other non mineral oils do exist, but we'll save that for anther day.

The main benefit syn oils offer is thermal stability and flexibility like 20W - 50. 20W = winter, the 50 = the oils viscosity, so it will behave like a 20 weight oil in the winter, yet it will also hold up to extreme heat. You will never find a conventional oil with a 20w-50 rating, and most of these oil can't be found at your local auto parts store as they're race oils, and don't meet EPA requirements.

The problem some have with normal syn oils is the fact they have to meet new regulations, one of these regulations is to reduce Zinc Dialkyl-Dithiophosphate, an anti-wea additive. This is ok in modern cars, but not great in older cars, lawn equipment or any air cooled engine, some oil companies even offer zinc boosters. The zinc helps keep valve noise down as well.

So what's the best oil for our mowers? Well that's a big question with many variables, but I'll do my best. Most of the race type oils like Amsoil 20w-50 are the best of the best. Not only do they have thermal stability and high shear strength, but they're also packed full of zinc. With that said these oils are often expensive and can be hard to find locally. For the money it's really hard to beat the simple HD straight grade oils, diesel grade oils work fine as well, they both do excellent in air cooled engines and still have high levels of zinc.

Richard Martin
08-12-2011, 06:51 AM
I've been using dino oil in my Dixie since it was brand new 1400 hours ago. I do 100 hour oil changes and 200 hour filter changes. I use Purolator Pure 1 oil filters and Pennzoil 10w30. I also have a Amsoil bypass filter and a K&N canister air filter. I'm going to change the oil shortly and send it off to Blackstone Labs and get an oil analysis done. It has been very hot and dusty here this summer. We will find out just how good dino Pennzoil holds up. The oil and filter have about 140 hours on them since they were installed out of sequence due to me changing the sandwich adapter o ring last fall. That's right, the oil has been in the engine since last year. It's a Kohler 28 run between 3600 and 3700 RPM with the blades on.

Richard Martin
08-12-2011, 06:59 AM
Let me also note that while my engine does have filtration well beyond which most others have, that filtration won't stop the additives package from breaking down and that's the most important part of the oil.

Florida Gardener
08-12-2011, 10:08 PM
Richard

Im glad you brough that up. I am going to send a sample from my Wright Stander to see if I'm wasting money changing at 50 hours on oil and 100 hours on filter.

I have done 3 analysis on my 08' Tundra that I run Amsoil Synthetic and my last run was 12,600 miles. They said to go for 15!

It's not that the oil costs a ton, but if it doesn't need to be changed that early, why change it. I have exactly 50 hours on the current oil on my Wright Stander....

ALC-GregH
08-12-2011, 10:27 PM
I've been using dino oil in my Dixie since it was brand new 1400 hours ago. I do 100 hour oil changes and 200 hour filter changes. I use Purolator Pure 1 oil filters and Pennzoil 10w30. I also have a Amsoil bypass filter and a K&N canister air filter. I'm going to change the oil shortly and send it off to Blackstone Labs and get an oil analysis done. It has been very hot and dusty here this summer. We will find out just how good dino Pennzoil holds up. The oil and filter have about 140 hours on them since they were installed out of sequence due to me changing the sandwich adapter o ring last fall. That's right, the oil has been in the engine since last year. It's a Kohler 28 run between 3600 and 3700 RPM with the blades on.

That's only 58 days. That mower is older then that. :D :laugh::laugh:

I have the same oil in my mower from last year. It wasn't really that dirty so I left it. I'll be changing it soon. It's up over 150hrs since the last change.

Andyshine77
08-13-2011, 12:46 AM
So what does two quarts of oil cost? What does an oil filter cost? What does a new engine cost? Sure you can push the limits of anything, but the question is why? Change your oil every 40 to 50 hours and be happy.:) I've done the oil test thing myself, the feedback is fake, and the only thing it does is make a few oil manufactures look good, there is a reason why engine manufactures have recommended oil change intervals. 10W30 is not an acceptable oil in any air cooled engine IMHO. They lack the thermal stability, and in most cases anti ware additives like zinc.

So who makes Amsoils filters? I'll give you a hint, no oil company makes their own filters.:rolleyes: K&N filters have no place in dusty environments, I call them rock filters, as all they filter is rocks. Nothing beats paper element filters. Nothing!!

You guys need to start doing more research instead of listening to all the sales guys that seem to float around this site.

Florida Gardener
08-13-2011, 12:49 AM
So what does two quarts of oil cost? What does an oil filter cost? What does a new engine cost? Sure you can push the limits of anything, but the question is why? Change your oil every 40 to 50 hours and be happy.:) I've done the oil test thing myself, the feedback is fake, and the only thing it does is make a few oil manufactures look good, there is a reason why engine manufactures have recommended oil change intervals. 10W30 is not an acceptable oil in any air cooled engine IMHO. They lack the thermal stability, and in most cases anti ware additives like zinc.

So who makes Amsoils filters? I'll give you a hint, no oil company makes their own filters.:rolleyes: K&N filters have no place in dusty environments, I call them rock filters, as all they filter is rocks. Nothing beats paper element filters. Nothing!!

You guys need to start doing more research instead of listening to all the sales guys that seem to float around this site.

Feedback is fake?

What does an oil analysis company have to gain by telling you to go on a LONGER OCI?? Synthetic oils are made to go on longer runs vs. conv. oil. I'm not saying for mowers, but def. for vehicles.

Andyshine77
08-13-2011, 12:50 AM
Let me also note that while my engine does have filtration well beyond which most others have, that filtration won't stop the additives package from breaking down and that's the most important part of the oil.

You are 100% correct about the add pack, it means more than the base oil.

Andyshine77
08-13-2011, 12:57 AM
Feedback is fake?

What does an oil analysis company have to gain by telling you to go on a LONGER OCI?? Synthetic oils are made to go on longer runs vs. conv. oil. I'm not saying for mowers, but def. for vehicles.

Not correct. Oils still absorb moisture, contaminants and so on. The only thing syn oils are really better at is dealing with thermal issues, heat and cold. Most oil analysis company's are supported by oil manufactures, the results mean very little to me because of this.

Florida Gardener
08-13-2011, 01:00 AM
Not correct. Oils still absorb moisture, contaminants and so on. The only thing syn oils are really better at is dealing with thermal issues, heat and cold. Most oil analysis company's are supported by oil manufactures, the results mean very little to me because of this.

So your saying my mechanic is wrong then when he tells me that using synthetic vs. dino I can do a 6k OCI?

What oil manufacturer specifically "supports" Blackstone labs?

Andyshine77
08-13-2011, 01:07 AM
So your saying my mechanic is wrong then when he tells me that using synthetic vs. dino I can do a 6k OCI?

What oil manufacturer specifically "supports" Blackstone labs?

To your first question the answer is 100% yes. Your mechanic will profit from you, remember that's how he makes a living.


Who supports Blackstone labs? lol well I'm glad you asked, Amsoil ahahaha. Not that they make bad oil, in fact they make great oils.

Florida Gardener
08-13-2011, 01:26 AM
To your first question the answer is 100% yes. Your mechanic will profit from you, remember that's how he makes a living.


Who supports Blackstone labs? lol well I'm glad you asked, Amsoil ahahaha. Not that they make bad oil, in fact they make great oils.

OK, how is my mechanic making MORE off me if he tells me to change syn @6k mi vs. say 3k for dino oil??

If you say Amsoil makes great oils, what would blackstone benefit from telling me to run a 15k mi interval?? I would be using way less oil over time.....

Andyshine77
08-13-2011, 02:50 AM
OK, how is my mechanic making MORE off me if he tells me to change syn @6k mi vs. say 3k for dino oil??

If you say Amsoil makes great oils, what would blackstone benefit from telling me to run a 15k mi interval?? I would be using way less oil over time.....

Well re ringing an engine or rebuilding it will keep him in business. let alone selling you a new engine.

It proves Amsoil is great, so you keep using it.

What really do you want to know here? is modern oil a lot better than it was 30 years ago? yes. Will it allow you to run 6,000 miles between oil changes? No not really. GM, Toyota and others are going back to 3,000 4,000 oil change recommendations for a reason. GM and others are actually using a computer aided system that monitors driving habits and adjusts oil change intervals accordingly, aka when the yellow light comes on, but even this doesn't take into account moisture and contaminants.

An air cooled engine however is running at 100% nearly 100% of the time, this is where shear strength, anti wear additives, and oil changes come into play.

lifetree
08-13-2011, 09:02 AM
... Our 18hp kohler magnum had 3 oil changes in 3200 hours and was still strong when we sold the mower. Our lazer you see in my sig has had maybe 6 oil changes in 2500 hours and still runs like a top. ...

WOW, I'm glad you've had that good experience with your equipment ... however, only changing the oil every 1,000 hours basically constitutes neglect !! Sorry to say it, however, that is simply my opinion.

Hawken Cougar
08-13-2011, 10:54 AM
Let's clear a few things up in this thread about modern oil.

To start syn oils are not slicker than conventional oils, that's an old wives' tale. Their really is no such thing as a full syn oil, the refinement process and the additive package is what makes true syn and Ester syn oils. Other non mineral oils do exist, but we'll save that for anther day.

The main benefit syn oils offer is thermal stability and flexibility like 20W - 50. 20W = winter, the 50 = the oils viscosity, so it will behave like a 20 weight oil in the winter, yet it will also hold up to extreme heat. You will never find a conventional oil with a 20w-50 rating, and most of these oil can't be found at your local auto parts store as they're race oils, and don't meet EPA requirements.

The problem some have with normal syn oils is the fact they have to meet new regulations, one of these regulations is to reduce Zinc Dialkyl-Dithiophosphate, an anti-wea additive. This is ok in modern cars, but not great in older cars, lawn equipment or any air cooled engine, some oil companies even offer zinc boosters. The zinc helps keep valve noise down as well.

So what's the best oil for our mowers? Well that's a big question with many variables, but I'll do my best. Most of the race type oils like Amsoil 20w-50 are the best of the best. Not only do they have thermal stability and high shear strength, but they're also packed full of zinc. With that said these oils are often expensive and can be hard to find locally. For the money it's really hard to beat the simple HD straight grade oils, diesel grade oils work fine as well, they both do excellent in air cooled engines and still have high levels of zinc.


The attached links show that both Valvoline & Penzoil produce 20w-50 conventional motor oils:

http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/20w-50#b


http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_x_10070128-P_x_x?cm_mmc=CSE-_-Google-_-VALUE3-_-VALUE4&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=10070128

willowick
08-13-2011, 12:38 PM
Who supports Blackstone labs? lol well I'm glad you asked, Amsoil ahahaha.

Got a cite for that? I'm not saying you're wrong but I have a couple of reasons to think that information is untrue.

1. Blackstone is privately owned.
2. Having an affiliation like that makes 0, zilch, no sense whatsoever. It brings into question the credibility of their entire business model.
3. I have access to a comprehensive national Business to Business database that includes relationships, NAICS codes etc and can find no relationship between the two.

Richard Martin
08-13-2011, 12:55 PM
The attached links show that both Valvoline & Penzoil produce 20w-50 conventional motor oils:

His entire statement was so ludicrous that I chose not to answer. There are tons of 20w50 oils out there. Some others are Shell, Quaker State, Mobil, Red Line etc...

Florida Gardener
08-13-2011, 12:57 PM
Got a cite for that? I'm not saying you're wrong but I have a couple of reasons to think that information is untrue.

1. Blackstone is privately owned.
2. Having an affiliation like that makes 0, zilch, no sense whatsoever. It brings into question the credibility of their entire business model.
3. I have access to a comprehensive national Business to Business database that includes relationships, NAICS codes etc and can find no relationship between the two.

I kept questioning him bc I don't agree with him and wanted to see what his logic was. Blackstone labs gains zip by telling someone to run your oil longer. It is less money for them due to less analysis being done and they aren't benefitting oil companies bc in turn it would be less oil purchased.
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Andyshine77
08-14-2011, 03:34 AM
The attached links show that both Valvoline & Penzoil produce 20w-50 conventional motor oils:

http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/20w-50#b


http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_x_10070128-P_x_x?cm_mmc=CSE-_-Google-_-VALUE3-_-VALUE4&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=10070128

Sorry but you guys have little to no knowledge about oils. A few years back Castrol got into big trouble with their syn oils, why? simple the oils used were not group lll base stocks instead they were using group ll oils. Castrol was accidentally outed by a spokesmen over on "Bob is the oil guy forum" and he got fired over the issue, plus legal action was taken. Just because the sticker on the bottle says it's a syn oil doesn't mean it is and vice versa.:rolleyes:

You guys need to understand that conventional oil simply can't have a temperature range like a 20w50 oil, the only way to achieve a range like that is with a good base stock and large amounts of polymer additives, aka it's now a syn oil.:rolleyes:

You're all free to go learn real info on the BITOG form if you like, or you can keep your heads in the sand.

Andyshine77
08-14-2011, 03:55 AM
Got a cite for that? I'm not saying you're wrong but I have a couple of reasons to think that information is untrue.

1. Blackstone is privately owned.
2. Having an affiliation like that makes 0, zilch, no sense whatsoever. It brings into question the credibility of their entire business model.
3. I have access to a comprehensive national Business to Business database that includes relationships, NAICS codes etc and can find no relationship between the two.

Just like GM, Toyota don't pay off Motor trend and consumer reports with advertizing money. Not long ago GE told MT they better start giving better reviews of their cars or they would pull their advertizing.

Yes I do question K&N their filters have been proven to flow better, but in doing so sacrifices filtration performance. Using the outer ware does improve the filtering. Here is a link to outerwears for K&N filters.http://www.outerwears.com/products.asp

All I'm trying to do is provide the best information on oil I can, I've done years of research and even some testing.

There is no reason to get defensive here, but a few of you need to stop making uninformed assumptions.

Richard Martin
08-14-2011, 05:16 AM
Yes I do question K&N their filters have been proven to flow better, but in doing so sacrifices filtration performance. Using the outer ware does improve the filtering. Here is a link to outerwears for K&N filters.http://www.outerwears.com/products.asp

All I'm trying to do is provide the best information on oil I can, I've done years of research and even some testing.

You need to research more then. The Outerwarez is only made to catch big garbage. It's best filtering ability is 127 micron (.005" http://www.outerwears.com/tech.html). K&N filters can catch particles down to 1 micron (http://www.knfilters.com/efficiency_testing.htm).

It's unlikely that the Outerwarez is doing much but it does look nice. :laugh:

BTW, Blackstone Labs doesn't accept any advertising. :nono: Try again.

SouthSide Cutter
08-14-2011, 10:18 AM
Just like GM, Toyota don't pay off Motor trend and consumer reports with advertizing money. Not long ago GE told MT they better start giving better reviews of their cars or they would pull their advertizing.

Yes I do question K&N their filters have been proven to flow better, but in doing so sacrifices filtration performance. Using the outer ware does improve the filtering. Here is a link to outerwears for K&N filters.http://www.outerwears.com/products.asp

All I'm trying to do is provide the best information on oil I can, I've done years of research and even some testing.

There is no reason to get defensive here, but a few of you need to stop making uninformed assumptions.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Big trucks use to change their oil at 10000 miles, now some oils have them going to 60000. With no problems. This is a big savings when your talking 10-15 gal each time. Someone said syn is not any slicker but it is. You just need to see some race engines that run on reg oil and some that use syn. And before you jump my case. The guys I grew up with and worked for their dad when in high school farm probably 10 - 15 thousand acres, run around 300 tractor trailers, maybe total of 75 dozers-trackhoes and other construction equipment. So their testing and research may be just a little better than yours. And ol Forrest Lucas is a friend and been at their farm. I built my own race engines when drag racing, and know and live buy some of the best in the business. Engler Machine and Tool and Jones Enginering. In all I think they know more than you and have tested on a few thousand sprint car, tractor pulling and drag engines.

willowick
08-14-2011, 10:30 AM
There is no reason to get defensive here, but a few of you need to stop making uninformed assumptions.

I'm not being defensive. Your source is a website that takes advertising money form oil companies. Blackstone does no such thing. The fact that there are oil advertisers on the site indicate you're possibly a victim of your own argument.

There is no logical reason, nor anything factual I can find that would indicate Blackstone is bought and paid for by an oil company. I use them regularly and have gotten some dubious reports from them. They do have errors in their testing (rarely) but I never had them say, "Ya know, if you switched to brand X, you wouldn't have this problem."

Anyhow, to each their own. Do your own research and make the best call you can. I personally use Lucas synthetic. It may be overkill but the peace of mind is worth it and the cost is small considering everything else. I also use the exact OEM filters that the machine came with. Engineers figure this stuff out. I'm not an engineer, so I defer to them.

dboyd351
08-14-2011, 10:50 AM
Gotta say this thread has been an entertaining read. As to the original question - Yes, I think you can change to synthetics after 50 or 100 hours and it will do your engine good. I've been using synthetic oil in all my 4 stroke equipment since the 1980s when I read some independent tests on how much Mobil 1 cut wear (more than 50%) in lab tested engines. I've had very good luck with them.
A couple of caveats, though:
1) Extended oil change intervals don't always mean much. If the oil gets dirty, it needs to be changed regardless of what kind of oil it is.
2) On really high mileage/hour engines, you might not want to switch to synthetics. I've got an old beater pickup that had 200,000 miles on it when I got it. I tried switching to synthetic oil (I believe it was Mobil 1 10W-30) and the engine immediately got VERY noisy, like it was going to self destruct. A mechanic friend told me to switch to straight 40 weight dino oil, and even add a little honey (STP oil treatment), if necessary. I followed his advice. The noise went away and the oil pressure went up considerably. I did lose as few MPG, though.

willowick
08-14-2011, 12:12 PM
1) Extended oil change intervals don't always mean much. If the oil gets dirty, it needs to be changed regardless of what kind of oil it is.


If you have a good oil filter, your oil shouldn't be dirty.
I think the main thing with oil is the package that's in it. If the additive package is wearing out, it is time to change your oil. That is why I test my oil - to see how the additives are holding up and what wear is going on inside the engine.

Florida Gardener
08-14-2011, 01:01 PM
If you have a good oil filter, your oil shouldn't be dirty.
I think the main thing with oil is the package that's in it. If the additive package is wearing out, it is time to change your oil. That is why I test my oil - to see how the additives are holding up and what wear is going on inside the engine.

I agree 100%. blackstone gets no benefits from saying one brand over another. I think the best way to figur out how often we should change oil IS to have an analysis done. I just did a 12.6k mile run on my 08' Tundra with amsoil 0W20 and the report came back great and they said to try 15K miles next run. If I can do this, why the heck would I change the oil any earlier?? Bc guys on here say to??
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willowick
08-14-2011, 01:52 PM
Well, oil is relatively cheap, all things considered. But yeah, I've gone as little as 8K on a change and as long as 15K on my Cummins. I get it checked at 8K. On my mower, I just do what the manual says and get an analysis to make sure something isn't going pear shaped inside. It's always come back fine, with plenty of additives still working in it.

Good piece of mind, and when you get set to sell your machine, maintenance records and oil reports go a log way towards paying for themselves. It shows you care for your stuff.

After all, sometimes you sell a machine because something else fits the bill better, not because there's anything wrong with it.

Richard Martin
08-14-2011, 03:03 PM
I see a bunch of people saying oil is cheap. You haven't bought any lately. O'Reilly Auto wants $5.50 for a quart of generic motor oil. Advance is getting $22 for a 5 quart jug of Pennzoil 10w30. Oil ain't cheap no more.

Florida Gardener
08-14-2011, 03:09 PM
I see a bunch of people saying oil is cheap. You haven't bought any lately. O'Reilly Auto wants $5.50 for a quart of generic motor oil. Advance is getting $22 for a 5 quart jug of Pennzoil 10w30. Oil ain't cheap no more.

I agree. Most places are charging $8/qt. for M1 Syn. now.

However, if you are a Costco member, they sell the 6 pack of M1 Syn. that comes out to $5.5/qt. or so and then they send out an insert full of coupons that has $9 off the 6 pack so it comes to $4.5/qt or so which is great for M1.

SouthSide Cutter
08-14-2011, 08:06 PM
I see a bunch of people saying oil is cheap. You haven't bought any lately. O'Reilly Auto wants $5.50 for a quart of generic motor oil. Advance is getting $22 for a 5 quart jug of Pennzoil 10w30. Oil ain't cheap no more.

Man it aint that high here. 2.79 for 10W30 Penn on sale. 5 quarts Mobil 1 in big jug 22.00. The 5 qt Penn Jug was 17. But thats at WalMart. Everyone else is higher than that. Gas and Diesel just took a dive here also 3.58 and 3.75. I just bought alot of oil for my mowers, cars and trucks. Checked the prices before I bought and saved over 40.00 total going to WalMart.

Andyshine77
08-15-2011, 05:03 AM
I see a bunch of people saying oil is cheap. You haven't bought any lately. O'Reilly Auto wants $5.50 for a quart of generic motor oil. Advance is getting $22 for a 5 quart jug of Pennzoil 10w30. Oil ain't cheap no more.

What does an engine cost? Yes oil is cheap 22 bucks is nothing these days. As I see it you have and never have zero useful information. Monkey see monkey do.

Andyshine77
08-15-2011, 05:24 AM
You have no idea what you are talking about. Big trucks use to change their oil at 10000 miles, now some oils have them going to 60000. With no problems. This is a big savings when your talking 10-15 gal each time. Someone said syn is not any slicker but it is. You just need to see some race engines that run on reg oil and some that use syn. And before you jump my case. The guys I grew up with and worked for their dad when in high school farm probably 10 - 15 thousand acres, run around 300 tractor trailers, maybe total of 75 dozers-trackhoes and other construction equipment. So their testing and research may be just a little better than yours. And ol Forrest Lucas is a friend and been at their farm. I built my own race engines when drag racing, and know and live buy some of the best in the business. Engler Machine and Tool and Jones Enginering. In all I think they know more than you and have tested on a few thousand sprint car, tractor pulling and drag engines.

Were we talking about big trucks? Totally different ball game especially with diesel engines spinning at much lower rpm's for long periods of time unlike a family that may not always get up to full temp. Additionally the air and oil filter are many times larger. You simply cannot compare them to an average car or light truck.

Andyshine77
08-15-2011, 05:36 AM
Gotta say this thread has been an entertaining read. As to the original question - Yes, I think you can change to synthetics after 50 or 100 hours and it will do your engine good. I've been using synthetic oil in all my 4 stroke equipment since the 1980s when I read some independent tests on how much Mobil 1 cut wear (more than 50%) in lab tested engines. I've had very good luck with them.
A couple of caveats, though:
1) Extended oil change intervals don't always mean much. If the oil gets dirty, it needs to be changed regardless of what kind of oil it is.
2) On really high mileage/hour engines, you might not want to switch to synthetics. I've got an old beater pickup that had 200,000 miles on it when I got it. I tried switching to synthetic oil (I believe it was Mobil 1 10W-30) and the engine immediately got VERY noisy, like it was going to self destruct. A mechanic friend told me to switch to straight 40 weight dino oil, and even add a little honey (STP oil treatment), if necessary. I followed his advice. The noise went away and the oil pressure went up considerably. I did lose as few MPG, though.

The noise you experienced was mostly caused by the lack of anti ware additives like zinc. One other side effect of switching to syn oil in older vehicles that were ran on conventional oil, increased oil leakage.

One thing oil filters miss is moisture, fine carbon and the corrosives produced by the combustion of fuel.

Andyshine77
08-15-2011, 05:44 AM
I agree 100%. blackstone gets no benefits from saying one brand over another. I think the best way to figur out how often we should change oil IS to have an analysis done. I just did a 12.6k mile run on my 08' Tundra with amsoil 0W20 and the report came back great and they said to try 15K miles next run. If I can do this, why the heck would I change the oil any earlier?? Bc guys on here say to??
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How do you know blackstone doesn't benefit?? Most of these company are supported by the big oil companies.

Why change your at all? It's your stuff do what you like with it. Take the info I've provided anyway you like, I'm just trying to help.

If any of you have other ligament questions about oil, feel free to ask.:drinkup:

Andyshine77
08-15-2011, 06:00 AM
You need to research more then. The Outerwarez is only made to catch big garbage. It's best filtering ability is 127 micron (.005" http://www.outerwears.com/tech.html). K&N filters can catch particles down to 1 micron (http://www.knfilters.com/efficiency_testing.htm).

It's unlikely that the Outerwarez is doing much but it does look nice. :laugh:

BTW, Blackstone Labs doesn't accept any advertising. :nono: Try again.

Yes the Outerwarez are simply prefilters, but they help quite a lot I've ran them. Nevertheless the information is again provided by the manufacture and is BS IMHO. I ran K&N filters and they simply do not filter fine dust like paper element filters. Why do you think K&N makes filter oil?

Richard Martin
08-15-2011, 06:58 AM
Yes the Outerwarez are simply prefilters, but they help quite a lot I've ran them. Nevertheless the information is again provided by the manufacture and is BS IMHO. I ran K&N filters and they simply do not filter fine dust like paper element filters.

How do you know they don't filter fine particulates? Just using them doesn't really qualify as data. I've used K&N filters for a long time and I've never had any kind of abnormal engine wear because of them.

Why do you think K&N makes filter oil?

Because that's the design of the filter? Just because it's not a paper filter doesn't mean it's doesn't work. Show us legitimate links to any data to support any of the claims you've made in this thread and I'm not talking about forum data.

And there are literally thousands of people that would argue that I do contribute useful information.

dboyd351
08-15-2011, 07:18 AM
I ran K&N filters and they simply do not filter fine dust like paper element filters. Why do you think K&N makes filter oil?

K&N makes all sorts of filters, but many of their foam filters were designed to be oiled, after being cleaned, and before being installed. Back in the 1970s many dirt bikes used oiled foam filters and K&N was one of the leading suppliers. The big advantage to oiled foam filters is that you can take them out wash them off (usually in premix), oil them and re-install them immediately - extremely useful in long, dusty races like the Baja 1000.
Any foam filter with a light coating of oil will catch FAR more particulates than an unoiled filter. The filter oil is sticky so it doesn't run off.

lifetree
08-16-2011, 12:27 AM
... I've been using synthetic oil in all my 4 stroke equipment since the 1980s ... On really high mileage/hour engines, you might not want to switch to synthetics. I've got an old beater pickup that had 200,000 miles on it when I got it. I tried switching to synthetic oil (I believe it was Mobil 1 10W-30) and the engine immediately got VERY noisy ...

A few years ago I got a 1997 car with 165,000 miles on it and switched to full synthetic from dino oil and haven't had any problem ... although I do use an additive ... Marvel Mystery oil !! The car now has 207,000 on it and it's still running without missing a beat.

I think the Marvel Mystery oil is what made the difference.

Andyshine77
08-16-2011, 01:20 AM
How do you know they don't filter fine particulates? Just using them doesn't really qualify as data. I've used K&N filters for a long time and I've never had any kind of abnormal engine wear because of them.



Because that's the design of the filter? Just because it's not a paper filter doesn't mean it's doesn't work. Show us legitimate links to any data to support any of the claims you've made in this thread and I'm not talking about forum data.

And there are literally thousands of people that would argue that I do contribute useful information.

Here you go.http://home.roadrunner.com/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

Andyshine77
08-16-2011, 01:28 AM
A few years ago I got a 1997 car with 165,000 miles on it and switched to full synthetic from dino oil and haven't had any problem ... although I do use an additive ... Marvel Mystery oil !! The car now has 207,000 on it and it's still running without missing a beat.

I think the Marvel Mystery oil is what made the difference.

Not every older engine will have problems with syn oil, it all depends on the condition of the gaskets and how well the engine was maintained, IE how often the oil was changed. Syn oils tend to have more solvents that can breakdown old gaskets.

Richard Martin
08-16-2011, 04:38 AM
Here you go.http://home.roadrunner.com/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

Well, I guess I'll find out shortly. If there is an inordinate amount of dust in the oil (what gets in the combustion chamber ends up in the oil) Blackstone will tell me.

Hawken Cougar
08-16-2011, 05:50 PM
A few years ago I got a 1997 car with 165,000 miles on it and switched to full synthetic from dino oil and haven't had any problem ... although I do use an additive ... Marvel Mystery oil !! The car now has 207,000 on it and it's still running without missing a beat.

I think the Marvel Mystery oil is what made the difference.


I've run five different vehicles past 250K miles using nothing more than whatever dino oil was on sale at the time. Each had the oil and filter changed at 5K miles. Each was sold to private individuals who continued to run them for several years longer. Never had a problem. Clean air, clean fuel, regular oil changes and staying on top of maintenance issues is all it really takes provided the engine design is robust and does not have a design flaw.